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Tourer
Posts: 446
East TN | See this post for the first part of the drama: http://forums.thevmc.com/bb/forums/thread-view.asp?tid=113448&p... Here is the current set of events TODAY! The dealership ordered and installed a new master cylinder and re-bled the brakes...I went to pick it up today and they said that they test rode it for 15 miles, the service writer rode it a couple of laps around the parking lot...I too, did a couple of laps around the parking lot. Everything seemed OK...SO I gear up and start riding home... About 5 miles from the dealership I'm cruising about 50 MPH down a road and I notice I'm losing speed and something doesn't feel right. I downshift to 3rd and the motor stutters due to drag so I give it more gas and start looking for a place to pull off the road...I find a drive way and shoot up it and unto the sidewalk. YEP, the front brakes are locked up!! The bike won't go anywhere, won't budge!!! I call the dealer and say "IT'S NOT FIXED"  . They say they will be right out to pick it up and figure out what happened..Well DUH!!  I get a call a little after 7 PM and it's the dealer, they had spent all this time troubleshooting the problem. Now they are telling me, that the tech that did my work, NORMALLY works on BMW motorcycles and his bay is set up to service BMW motorcycles...So when he did my brake fluid replacement he used BMW DOT 4 brake fluid NOT Victory DOT 4 brake fluid...He did this both times my brakes locked up...After tearing my brake system apart the dealer said tat ALL the rubber in the brake system is swollen, like there was a chemical reaction to the BMW brake fluid to the Victory rubber in the brakes... Now the plan is to COMPLETELY replace and rebuild my brake system, they are going replace all the rubber components and clean all the metal parts in the brake system...So I'm without my Vision for probably ANOTHER WEEK!!!  We will see what happens next!  |
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Tourer
Posts: 390
| I have heard of this happening with people mixing brake fluids. The silicone fluids swell the rubber components just as in your situation. My friends 1954 Oldsmobile had to be towed home for the same problem. Just one more thing to be on the lookout for. |
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Visionary
Posts: 8144
New Bohemia, VA | that's a new one on me, I thought DOT4 was DOT4 and not specific to brand of vehicles. BMW folks must have to special order their stuff as I've never seen BMW DOT4. Thanks for the heads up. |
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Iron Butt
Posts: 763
Anderson, IN (48mi NE of downtown Indianapolis) | I thought DOT 4 was DOT 4 too. Thanks for sharing the info. |
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Iron Butt
Posts: 741
Central New York | In my humble opinion, your dealer is giving you a snow job. DOT4 is DOT4, regardless who makes it. I'm betting that something entirely different was put in your bike. Reference.
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Tourer
Posts: 337
san antonio, tx | glighto11 - 2011-10-15 10:01 AM
In my humble opinion, your dealer is giving you a snow job. DOT4 is DOT4, regardless who makes it. I'm betting that something entirely different was put in your bike. Reference.
I agree. Here's another reference that spells it out pretty well.
Sounds like they may have used DOT 5. If that's the case every single component of the system should probably be changed out, according to this article.
http://www.sdvsa.org/BrakeFluidFacts.htm |
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Visionary
Posts: 4278
| OK they used wrong fluid but would cause his brakes to lock up in the first place???? |
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Cruiser
Posts: 104
Plainfield Illinois | john frey - 2011-10-15 10:42 AM OK they used wrong fluid but would cause his brakes to lock up in the first place???? In a closed hyd. circuit, if seals swell the extra volume they displace must go somewhere. Just a SWAG... |
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Tourer
Posts: 446
East TN | That's what my dealer said...that every piece of rubber swelled about 25% more than it's norm...Causing pressure to build in the system and causing the brakes to lock...Now the DOT 5 to DOT 4 really seems to make a lot of since....Although my dealer is saying it was DOT 4 to DOT 4, however he does have to cover his butt from a liability point too... |
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Visionary
Posts: 8144
New Bohemia, VA | given the circumstances, yes, everything should be changed out, lines, calipers, the works. Even if he got it working without changing everything out, the damage is done and will rear its ugly head again. |
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Iron Butt
Posts: 741
Central New York | Besides the obvious of the rubber swelling. another side effect is the inner walls of the hoses separate and restrict the fluid flow back causing the brakes to hang. That is also one of the reasons not to let the caliper hand on the hose when doing wheel work. The stretching can cause inner hose wall separation, which will have the same effect.
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Visionary
Posts: 1365
Central Maryland | Another example of why you should ALWAYS do your OWN maintenance YOURSELF. |
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Visionary
Posts: 1290
Ruskin, Fl | 1+ on doing your own work. My dealer turned me loose with the rotor bolts finger tight and they backed out. |
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Visionary
Posts: 3773
Pittsburgh, PA | cw1115 - 2011-10-16 5:33 AM
1+ on doing your own work. My dealer turned me loose with the rotor bolts finger tight and they backed out.
a couple months ago when i still had my 08 vision i did a full brake job and installed a new rear rotor and even installed those speed bleeders (which made doing the brake job as easy as possible) .. after i was doing doing all that work, the money i saved from doing it myself really opened my eyes. plus i was able to have my bike back the same day! one of the main reasons i do my own work isnt just the money i save, and isnt just knowing something can be done the way i like it to be. but more importantly for me its the HASSLE of dropping off my bike. having to get a ride back home from someone else, THEN having to get that someone else to take me to the dealer when the bike is dong... DAYS LATER............ I Hate hassles |
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Iron Butt
Posts: 741
Central New York | Arkainzeye - 2011-10-16 8:56 AM cw1115 - 2011-10-16 5:33 AM 1+ on doing your own work. My dealer turned me loose with the rotor bolts finger tight and they backed out. a couple months ago when i still had my 08 vision i did a full brake job and installed a new rear rotor and even installed those speed bleeders (which made doing the brake job as easy as possible) .. after i was doing doing all that work, the money i saved from doing it myself really opened my eyes. plus i was able to have my bike back the same day! one of the main reasons i do my own work isnt just the money i save, and isnt just knowing something can be done the way i like it to be. but more importantly for me its the HASSLE of dropping off my bike. having to get a ride back home from someone else, THEN having to get that someone else to take me to the dealer when the bike is dong... DAYS LATER............ I Hate hassles Besides all that, sometimes it's just plain fun, frustrations and skinned knuckles included. Also, happen to remember a part number for the speed bleeders? I looked at them a while back and never decided what to order.
Edited by glighto11 2011-10-16 10:42 AM
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Iron Butt
Posts: 763
Anderson, IN (48mi NE of downtown Indianapolis) | willtill - 2011-10-15 6:20 PM
Another example of why you should ALWAYS do your OWN maintenance YOURSELF.
+1
I have always looked at it this way: I would rather screw it up myself for free than PAY someone else to do the same.
Even if I mess it up, at least I know what happened and will remember forever. Sure I will have to pay to fix it, but I look at it like tuition for Motorcycle Mechanics 101. I have yet to pay the tuition because I do some studying, research, and ask around before doing a job I have not done before. I learn from each job and can do it again for the rest of my life. It's hard to say how much I have saved over 36 years of riding, but I'm sure it's tens of thousands. Plus, my bike is never "in the shop" so I can ride any time I want.
If you are not comfortable with your mechanic skills, start small like changing the oil. Then work up to spark plugs. Then on to brake pads etc. In a few years you will find yourself repairing things you never dreamed you could (like changing head gaskets, valves, or even pistons), Over time it becomes second nature and you can help others who are new to it.
The biggest advantage of performing my own maintenance is using the money saved to buy more motorcycle stuff! And this is exactly what I do. The dealer and aftermarket folks have not lost any money from me doing my own maintenance because those saved dollars go right back to them for new gear and accessories.
Good luck to all the backyard Vision mechanics out there. |
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Visionary
Posts: 3773
Pittsburgh, PA | glighto11 - 2011-10-16 10:40 AM
Arkainzeye - 2011-10-16 8:56 AM cw1115 - 2011-10-16 5:33 AM 1+ on doing your own work. My dealer turned me loose with the rotor bolts finger tight and they backed out. a couple months ago when i still had my 08 vision i did a full brake job and installed a new rear rotor and even installed those speed bleeders (which made doing the brake job as easy as possible) .. after i was doing doing all that work, the money i saved from doing it myself really opened my eyes. plus i was able to have my bike back the same day! one of the main reasons i do my own work isnt just the money i save, and isnt just knowing something can be done the way i like it to be. but more importantly for me its the HASSLE of dropping off my bike. having to get a ride back home from someone else, THEN having to get that someone else to take me to the dealer when the bike is dong... DAYS LATER............ I Hate hassles Besides all that, sometimes it's just plain fun, frustrations and skinned knuckles included. Also, happen to remember a part number for the speed bleeders? I looked at them a while back and never decided what to order.
i dont remember the part number anymore. but i know there is a thread on here about them. i think there were 2 different part numbers. the difference between the 2 part numbers was just the length of the threads. i went with the smaller threads as they were the same length as OEM. and i will tell you.. the speed bleeders making doing a brake job one of the easiest things ever! when i need brakes on my 2011 vision i WILL have those.. bleeding the brakes is so easy it pissed me off that i didnt get them on every bike ive had.. |
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Puddle Jumper
Posts: 45
Jax, FL | Big Affirmative there. Had it happen on an '81 HD. Service guy put DOT3 fluid in causing the lines to seperate. Flushed out the system, put new DOT5 in and everything seemed fine until I was a thousand miles away from home base and the brakes locked. One new master cylinder, both front lines and rebuild of both front calipers later I was on the road. Had to replace the master cyl because there was so much junk from the lines we couldnt clean it out. When I got home I soaked that thing for a week in carb cleaner before all traces of rubber was out of the return port. Man that trip sucked, it snowed at home base as well (Memphis TN at the time) |
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Front brakes keep locking up