|
|
Iron Butt
Posts: 619
Southeast Iowa | Does anyone know how much hotter the 106" runs compared to the 100" or 92" motor? My wife has a 04 Kingpin 92" motor with 6 qts. of oil compared to my ViVi's 106" motor with 4 1/2 qts. oil. There is also the closed loop fuel injection system compared to the open loop system to consider. I jumped on my wifes bike for a short spin the other day and felt a noticable difference in engine temp. so it got me wondering just how big the difference really was. |
|
| |
|
Cruiser
Posts: 71
Opelika, AL | I'm not sure how much of a difference it is... if she had all that bodywork trapping the heat above her engine, you may think it was hot as well... |
|
| |
|
Cruiser
Posts: 196
| My old '99 would run around 160 to 170 at hi-way speeds. My Vision is at aorund 180 to 200 at hi-way speeds.
From what I understand from the wrench, the 106 is more efficient at moving the oil than the 92 was, and with the six speed, they don't have/need the quantity of oil the 92's needed.
Will be happy when the Lower Deflectors are available to help bring the temps down with the better air flow toward the engine.  |
|
| |
|
Cruiser
Posts: 110
| If the lower deflectors will help move air towards the motor I will have to get a set.. While on a ride last month I recieved a wind burn on my left leg. it was caused by the air flowing thru the oil cooler right to my leg. I fear this will be a major problem here in AZ. come summer. I may have to relegate myself to riding a diffrent bike |
|
| |
|
Cruiser
Posts: 196
| Last year, I had the opportunity to ride both with & without the lower deflectors. They make a world of difference in the amount of heat you feel on your legs. Last report from our dealer is sometime in May..... Probably like my Vision...got 3 different delivery schedules, August, September, November, it finaly came in for November 21st delivery to me! |
|
| |
|
Jacksonville Florida | My Hammer will usually run 180 to 190 when the O.A.T. is between 90 and 100. Yesterday it was 92 here in Jacksonville, Fl. and the oil temp was running 210 on the Vision at 65 MPH. Installing the Conquest Customs CNC machined filter housing tomorrow. It is supposed to drop the oil temp by 10 degrees. I'm also going to try the Repsol fully synthetic. wrr1home I was told my ship date was 3/14 when the bike arrived in April the paper work showed the bike was built 3/14 so they lied again. It actually shipped 3/28. |
|
| |
|
Visionary
Posts: 1436
| 180-220 is pretty normal for any bike that is air and/or oil cooled. Many of the HD oil coolers with thermostat control don't even open unil 230. As to quantity of oil? I think you are going to see more and more bikes dropping quantity for EPA reasons. For example the 2007 HD went from changing engine/gearbox/tranny oil together every 5k, to only the engine oil at 5k and others at 10k. Mechanically nothing changed could account for this sudden change so it has to be driven by EPA.
I owned a Suzi 1500 a number of years back and it was 4.5 quarts with an air/oil cooler system similar to the Vision. So I'm not real concerned. |
|
| |
|
Visionary
Posts: 1324
So Cal | Oil temp shouldnt be an issue as long as your moving. If your sitting and idling in the middle of the desert, an oil cooler wont help. I have read articles about coolers without thermostats and they say they may be hurting the motor since the oil cant reach operating temp. All oils have SAE ratings, if you use any oil that has the recommended rating by the manufacturer you should be alright. I could tell when my HD needed the oil changed (about 3k) things started getting noisey. |
|
| |
|
Iron Butt
Posts: 619
Southeast Iowa | Teach - I don't think Victory changed the oil qty. for EPA reasons, the change came about as Victory updated the motor through the years. The original V92's had a much larger oil cooler (about twice the size) and was mounted in front of the starter. In 2002 Victory launched the 92" Freedom motor. When they did that they cut the cooler in half but left the capacity at 6 qts. In 2005 Victory launched the Hammer with the 100" 6-speed Freedom. When Victory updated the motor they narrowed the cases for better lean angles which reduced the oil capacity by a quart. In 2006 all the bikes but the TC got the 100" upgrade which brings us to 2008. The Visions 106" is just a stroked version of the 100" but runs the same cases as the 100" therefore having the same capacity. The oil cooler design changed again this year (for all models) but look to have about the same capacity as the last one. The reason I brought up the oil capacity in the original post is because less oil (20 %) means whats left will be working more often and will have less of a chance to cool down. I doubt this fact or the fairing on the Vision is doing much to increase motor temps. I think the cloosed loop fuel injection system (the Vision runs leaner than my wifes bike) is driving most of the temp. differences. I notice when I warm both bikes up for a ride my bike gets hotter MUCH faster than my wifes. Comparing the temps at this point removes a lot of variables such as the fairing, RPM, load, etc. The Vision is also getting as good or better MPG than the Kingpin while hauling a lot more weight (about 400 lbs. more between man and machine) We are heading out for a spin today...........I think when we get home I'll shoot the oil in both bikes with a temp. gun to see how big the differences are. |
|
| |
|
Cruiser
Posts: 136
CALGARY ALBERTA | Many things have changed in the past few years. Oil formulas, their ability to dispense heat better, the break down point rising from 250 to 400 degrees (in some cases), the ability to sustain higher working temps and the the oil coolers design enabling a smaller one to dispense more heat than an older larger one. I'm sure how much of this applies to the Vision but I'm sure it was all taken into account during the design.
BB |
|
| |
|
Visionary
Posts: 1436
| Big Vic, you might well be right. My point was that as new designs come on board the MC manufacturers are always looking for new ways to keep EPA off their back as well as impoving function/design. Oil sheer is always a concern hence the 2500 mile service interval, but as we all know even that is a recommendation. Some folks will find their bikes need oil changed sooner, and other will find longer intervals. Brand, type of oil, along with several other factors will need taken into account as well. Through the years I've found that V's tell you when its time. Shifting gets harder and noisier. I've also discovered folks will argue to the death over oil type/brand, so I won't even go down that road, lol. Suffice to say there are many metric bikes that have been running 4.5 qts for a lot of years with no bad affect, I imagine Victory engineers did their homework. |
|
| |
|
Jacksonville Florida | With the reduction in cooler size Is there anyone out there that thinks Victory may be pushing the oil threw the cooler to fast and not getting the heat sink that it needs? I rode today at 91 degrees with the new filter and full synthetic, it did run just a tad under 200 at 65 MPH. |
|
| |
|
Cruiser
Posts: 297
VA | My regular mechanic, talking more about cars that bikes, was talking about oil brands, and this is just for cars since they don't share the oil to the transmission in them, that back in the day, you tried to keep the car as cool as possible. It was the EPA regulations that got cars running hotter. I think it boils down to hotter engine temperatures burn fuel more efficiently and completely, hence the hotter engine temps. With the closed loop fuel injection that the Vision runs, and all of the extra weight, I imagine they purposefully raised the engine temp to make it more efficient. Granted, it's hell on the legs on a hot day, but they want to sell bikes and keep the EPA happy. But I also think that what I have read leads me to believe that oils are vastly improved from what they were and so oils have a much greater breakdown point, so the oil coolers can be smaller and still cool the oil enough to keep it within specs. |
|
| |
|
Visionary
Posts: 1324
So Cal | Teach - 2008-05-16 6:53 PM
180-220 is pretty normal for any bike that is air and/or oil cooled. Many of the HD oil coolers with thermostat control don't even open unil 230. As to quantity of oil? I think you are going to see more and more bikes dropping quantity for EPA reasons. For example the 2007 HD went from changing engine/gearbox/tranny oil together every 5k, to only the engine oil at 5k and others at 10k. Mechanically nothing changed could account for this sudden change so it has to be driven by EPA.
I owned a Suzi 1500 a number of years back and it was 4.5 quarts with an air/oil cooler system similar to the Vision. So I'm not real concerned.
Im with you, If oil temp stays below 230 and above 180 everythings OK.
Heat is what most manufacturers use to reduce polution. Too much heat can cause it. Its a fine line. |
|
| |
|
Iron Butt
Posts: 619
Southeast Iowa | First of all, this is not the most scientific experiment but I was comparing apples to apples. The last stage of our ride was only about 15 miles so I'm sure the bikes were not as warm as the would have been if we just finished a 100 mile leg. The ambient temp was about 84 degs. with 20 mph crosswinds. Ok, heres what the Temp Gun told me. Temps at the top of the Rear Cylinder were 178 and 169 +9 for ViVi. Top of the Front Cylinder 161 and 160 +1 for ViVi. Crank location 204 and 195 +9 for ViVi. Front Exhaust 195 and 183 +12 for ViVi. Rear Exhaust 276 and 255 +21 for ViVi and last of all the Oil at 183 and 180 +3 for ViVi. Based on this I would say the fairing does very little to raise front cylinder temps as the ViVi was only 1 deg hotter there. The Rear Cylinder however may not get as much air as it was 9 deg hotter. I was suprised to see only 3 deg difference in the oil temp. The biggest difference appears to be in the exhaust temps which were 12 and 21 deg hotter. I'm sure this is caused by the closed loop fuel injection system which makes the bike leaner, therefore hotter. |
|
| |
Engine Temp.