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Cruiser
Posts: 58
San Clemente | Where are the catalytic converters in the Vision exhaust? |
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Visionary
Posts: 8144
New Bohemia, VA | at the end of the header pipes...I think... |
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Visionary
Posts: 3006
San Antonio, TX | If you are thinking what I think you are thinking....stop. Do not remove the the catalytic converters. The back pressure that make is very small. None of the guys making horse power mods take them out.
Ride Safe |
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Puddle Jumper
Posts: 13
Trenton,Nova Scotia,Canada | It Is On The Rightside Pipe Where The Exhaust Joins. |
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Iron Butt
Posts: 935
Rockford, IL | If you are thinking about removing them it has been said that you are in for a LOT of labor for a supposed gain of less than 1 h.p. gain and a known loss of low end torque. |
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Visionary
Posts: 1350
| Yeah but I read on the internet that this guy knows a guys brothers friend took the cats off and he got 200 HP increase and gets 58 MPG now. It true I read it on the internet.... |
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Visionary
Posts: 8144
New Bohemia, VA | Just punch the sucker out and tell us how it works out for you... |
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Visionary
Posts: 1340
Gainesville Fl Home of the Gators | RedRider - 2012-02-09 6:26 AM
Yeah but I read on the internet that this guy knows a guys brothers friend took the cats off and he got 200 HP increase and gets 58 MPG now. It true I read it on the internet....
My dyno shows zero gain in HP, and a loss of 5-7 FtLb below 3000
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Iron Butt
Posts: 1109
| You're not going to gain anything. Just let it be. |
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Tourer
Posts: 390
| And you will just have to replace them when they start emission testing motorcycles. |
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Iron Butt
Posts: 880
Orlando, FL | Take em out. Enjoy running cat-less. HP gains are possible, low end torque loss inevitable. But oh, the joy and the sound!! Having more HP and more torque isn't everything guys. Shitz, if HP and torque was what having a bike was all about, a Vic is the last bike I'd have. (Shhhhhm I know, but it is true, there are way better engines out there than a freaking V Twin) Let's face it, it's the joy of the ride, and a little noise goes a long way. Enjoy it while ya can cause someday in the near future everything will be electric. Gee, won't that be fun riding a silent bike!
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Tourer
Posts: 599
New Mexico | MaddMAx2u - 2012-02-10 7:09 PM
Take em out. Enjoy running cat-less. HP gains are possible, low end torque loss inevitable. But oh, the joy and the sound!! Having more HP and more torque isn't everything guys.
Let's face it, it's the joy of the ride, and a little noise goes a long way.
Amen, brother...
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Cruiser
Posts: 94
Las Vegas | My dealer (the tech), told me to take them out. They said I will make much more power. Not sure I believe them.
(cat.JPG)
Attachments
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 cat.JPG (31KB - 2 downloads)
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Visionary
Posts: 1340
Gainesville Fl Home of the Gators | DetroitDetomaso - 2012-02-21 3:26 AM
My dealer (the tech), told me to take them out. They said I will make much more power. Not sure I believe them.
Guessing he has based it on opinion, and not testing |
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Cruiser
Posts: 111
| I don't know if there is a way to remove it without destroying the little beasty, just in case you find it's better with it in. |
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Tourer
Posts: 432
Gettysburg, 2008 Tour Premium | The size of the headpipe has been taken into account when the cats were designed. I am just guessing on this but if we had smaller diameter headers we could get away with removing them. As it stands when removing the cats it causes a drop in velocity enough to affect performance. I think Lloyd said it best when trying to explain why knowing the lift and duration of his cams is not relevant to our perspective of what we know about other V-Twins "These bikes are not Harleys." |
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Tourer
Posts: 457
Green Bay, WI United States | +1 to most posts.....
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Puddle Jumper
Posts: 40
Kansas | Wow, KevinX tells you twice not to do it and there still might be doubt. Kevin you need to change you last line to "A smart man listens to a smarter man." |
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Cruiser
Posts: 111
| Sometimes, it's not enough to just say do/don't do you need a viable explanation as to why. Wroman has a handle on the physics involved as to why we don't get a performance increase when the catt's are removed. KevinX gave a straight answer to what happens on the dyno, wroman said why. |
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Visionary
Posts: 3006
San Antonio, TX | DetroitDetomaso,
If you want more power for your Vision I whole heartily recommend mods that are tried and true.
For less then $2000 you can get installed:
Vision Intake Filter
Lloydz Cams
Power Commander 5 (V)
I would also add Lloyd'z Idle Air Valve
Both Kevinx and Vicbuilder (Rylan Vos) have done the install on countless bikes.
They can even do a Cam party in your area.
If you do all of this you will get a noticeable increase in power.
Rear tire HP on a stock Vision is about 82 to 84 HP and 99 to 100 ft. lbs of torque.
After VM1 Cams/Air box and Fuel Controller it is 108 to 111 hp and 105 to 107 ft. lbs of torque.
Check the Dyno charts at the link below.
http://www.lloydz.com/dyno.asp
This is just my opinion and the opinion of the many people that have had the work done. Considering the cost vs. the benefits and the repeatability of the installs. It is a sure thing in this world of uncertainty.
Check this link on his Cam install.
http://www.vision-riders.com/bb/forums/thread-view.asp?tid=3982
Ride Safe
Edited by radioteacher 2012-02-24 5:09 PM
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Visionary
Posts: 4278
| Send me $500 I have a bottle of water that will do the same for you. No horse pwer No tourq GAIN GUYS Think of this your ECU is designed for it to be there. So if you gut them what are you going to do with the ECU?
Edited by john frey 2012-02-24 5:25 PM
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Cruiser
Posts: 94
Las Vegas | radioteacher - 2012-02-24 3:06 PM
DetroitDetomaso,
If you want more power for your Vision I whole heartily recommend mods that are tried and true.
For less then $2000 you can get installed:
Vision Intake Filter
Lloydz Cams
Power Commander 5 (V)
I would also add Lloyd'z Idle Air Valve
Both Kevinx and Vicbuilder (Rylan Vos) have done the install on countless bikes.
They can even do a Cam party in your area.
If you do all of this you will get a noticeable increase in power.
Rear tire HP on a stock Vision is about 82 to 84 HP and 99 to 100 ft. lbs of torque.
After VM1 Cams/Air box and Fuel Controller it is 108 to 111 hp and 105 to 107 ft. lbs of torque.
Check the Dyno charts at the link below.
http://www.lloydz.com/dyno.asp
This is just my opinion and the opinion of the many people that have had the work done. Considering the cost vs. the benefits and the repeatability of the installs. It is a sure thing in this world of uncertainty.
Check this link on his Cam install.
http://www.vision-riders.com/bb/forums/thread-view.asp?tid=3982
Ride Safe
Thanks for the info.
I'm in. I want to do all of this. I'm picking out some pipes right now to go with this.
Edited by DetroitDetomaso 2012-02-27 12:44 AM
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Cruiser
Posts: 64
Columbia,MO | I drilled my cats out 3 years ago. Love it! It takes about 15 minutes aside with a right angle drill and a hole saw. The metal is tuff but go slow and steady. Make sure you drill straight so not to damage the pipe. Did my friends cross country last year. To each their own. |
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Iron Butt
Posts: 612
| BarryBennett - 2012-02-27 4:16 PM
I drilled my cats out 3 years ago. Love it! It takes about 15 minutes aside with a right angle drill and a hole saw. The metal is tuff but go slow and steady. Make sure you drill straight so not to damage the pipe. Did my friends cross country last year. To each their own.
Curious what you love about the cats being gone? Sound louder or better? Did you do a before/after dyno? While removing the cats from my '06 KP did give measurable advantages, I have heard the opposite for the newer closed loop bikes, specifically the Vision. If you can quantify your results, I'd sure be interested though!
Thanks!
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Iron Butt
Posts: 880
Orlando, FL | Guys, most people that remove the cat's know they are not getting any performance advantage. They do it for the SOUND!! Baaaaaaaa-ROOOOOM!! So stop making the assumption that they are looking for power. Even true dual's on most V twins cause a loss of low end torque and little HP gain if any. But the sound......oh, the sound. The only thing that stops me is the desire to hear my stereo at 75 mph~
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Puddle Jumper
Posts: 43
Rossville, IL | I had an '06 KP prior to the Vision and had done several mods to it including cams and S&S airbox. Never had it on the dyno, but I did notice a difference after I took the cats out. The bike revved better through the gears, but you could tell around town with a passenger on the torque was a little less. The sound with Stage I mufflers definitely improved and had a nice rumble.
Since then, I've dinked around with my '09 Vision and just got done putting the motor back in it. I've done several mods over the last 3 years, but I've settled on a combination that I'm really happy with now. I'm running Lloydz high compression pistons, VM1 cams, twin sucker intake, Stage I exhaust, Lloyds ECM mods, Lloydz 3 angle valve job, and Lloydz basic flow job on the heads. I also have the Power Commander V along with Autotune and am in the process of dialing it in.
When I was putting the exhaust back together, I went back and forth for 2 days before putting the mufflers back on trying to decide whether to take the cats out or not. I read all the posts for and against and weighed heavily Lloyd's & Kevin's recommendation not to take them out. I really liked how the KP ran, so I decided that with the mods I made and with the Autotune to keep an eye on the A/F ratio, I had plenty of torque now if I wanted to give up a little to see what it would do for the sound.
The end result for my setup is I'm extremely happy with it. The power is very smooth and it feels like it revs more easily going through the gears. I'm sure there was probably a loss of some torque, but I don't notice it if there is. What I do like is the nice throaty rumble now at idle and it's got a nasty bark when you blip the throttle. Cruising down the highway, I don't notice any difference in sound which makes the better half happy on long rides. I did notice the trim tables on the Autotune are pulling a couple points of fuel now in the lower RPM range and adding a little more in the upper compared to before.
The one thing that is more noticeable now is the popping on decel is definitely louder now with the cats out. However, it's less frequent than before and I've been adding some fuel in the Fuel Tables in the Power Commander in the 0% throttle column and it's nearly gone now. The other odd thing is it's not turning the Gatlin exhaust tips black with soot anymore, but it does leave a tan colored dust that wipes right off.
Edited by Bones 2012-03-04 9:52 AM
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Puddle Jumper
Posts: 27
| Good write up. Did you install Lloyd'z idle air valve? After I installed the stage one exhaust and fuel controller I started having that popping noise problem also then I installed the Lloyd'z idle valve which help reduce popping problem by at least 90%.
http://www.lloydz.com/store/item_view.asp?estore_itemid=1000078 |
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Puddle Jumper
Posts: 43
Rossville, IL | Yes, I had installed his IAV, but it didn't help the popping on my particular setup. In fact it had gotten worse and I had discovered 2 of the rubber hoses had cracked a year later and were leaking air. I removed the IAV and it's sitting on my shelf for now. It's an excellent product and I'm sure it helps in many instances, just not in my setup. |
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