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Cruiser
Posts: 251
| Hey All We are planning a trip to Alaska and I am thinking that being able to always get the higher octane might be an issue. I have never used regular unleaded as I have read that the vision does not seem to like it. I am wondering if anyone has used or is using reg unleaded? What are the short term and long term consequences? Thanks |
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Puddle Jumper
Posts: 10
baltimore | run one tank of regular in kansas last year only sold regular no problems |
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Puddle Jumper
Posts: 10
baltimore | run one tank of regular in kansas last year only sold regular no problems |
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Visionary
Posts: 3773
Pittsburgh, PA | If you cant get it but you "need" it, cant you just carry a few bottle of octane booster with you? usually one of those bottles will cover a Few tank fulls.. |
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Iron Butt
Posts: 804
Perry Hall, MD | Used regular gas over a period of time and never had an issue. Everything stock other than using cherry bomb exhaust.
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Cruiser
Posts: 258
Akron, Ohio | S1L1 upgrade and have no problems running several tanks of regular when no higher octane was available. I run 89 on a regular basis and have better gas mileage out of it vs 91 octane. I for one feel you will have no problems.
Edited by handyhiker 2012-04-30 6:31 PM
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Cruiser
Posts: 63
Calgary, AB, | I generally on 89, but on occasion, our local regular (87) and a few times I've only had high test (91). I see no difference, even in mileage betweem 91 & 89, and generally non or not enough to justfy the cost difference between 89 & 87 octane. I do avoid ethanol mixture if/when I can, but that is just my preference. I also use the higher grades when doing longer runs, particularly when/if it's hot days, or mountain rides with long, higher loaded runs. My Vision is stock everything, including pipes. You'll see a pretty large cost differential per litre while travelling in Canada. IF that concerned I'd go the octane booster approach. I use it in an older high performance engined vehicle, particularly when it's hot out as I think it eliminates the pinging |
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Tourer
Posts: 432
Gettysburg, 2008 Tour Premium | A few years back I was on a trip with my son-in-law, using 87 octane, and in one 'hammer down' run through the Vermont mountains I experienced the only telltale sign of lower octane fuel. When backing off of full throttle but still on it I got some pinging. I was detonation. That to me was enough to run high test. A few signs of pinging at lower throttle openings and low demand may be annoying but at or near full throttle can be a lot worse than annoying.
Walt |
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Cruiser
Posts: 188
| On a stock Victory engine, in mild weather, I will typically burn Mid grade, but in hot weather, or when when fully loaded premium only. In a pinch regular will work, but I wouldn't make it a habit. Most of the time regular would probably fine, its when its not that will cost ya.
High octane fuel has a higher resistance to burning so it better avoids premature detonation. Much like in the bed room, premature detonation could do a lot of damage to an engine, or at the very least shorten the life.
Its one thing if a higher octane fuel is not available, its another thing to burn it to save a few cents. |
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Iron Butt
Posts: 1109
| I always run 93 if it's available. My engine doesn't care for 87, I tried. |
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Tourer
Posts: 324
New Orleans, La, | Most modern computerized engines mgnt systems have a default program for "low quality fuel". What it does is allow the engine to operate on less than the ideal fuel recommended by the manufacturer for that particular engine application. Basically it will retard the timing some to slow down the combustion event avoiding detonation but also decreasing full power/performance. The amount of retard varies from application to application and manufacturer. |
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Tourer
Posts: 394
Tucson, AZ | I only run 89 all the the time. My engine is cammed with L2 pipes. I have tried to make it ping and can't do it, or maybe Arizona just has better gas. LOL! |
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Cruiser
Posts: 188
| In regard to motor computerized engines adjusting themselves for low grade fuel: Thats requires a lot of sensors the Victory engine doesn't have. My KTM Adventure is setup a little like Vics motor in the sensor department, only on my KTM there is a switch to activate the low grade fuel map.
Unless you map it otherwise, the Vic will not adjust itself for lower grade fuel.
Edited by Kelvininin 2012-05-01 11:21 AM
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Visionary
Posts: 8144
New Bohemia, VA | G, I wouldn't worry too much, if you can get the higher octane, I know you'll do it. If you can't find the higher octane, chances are you are in the higher altitudes and you really don't need it. Tells us about your trip to Alaska, planning, underway, if you can, but especially after you get back. Ride hard, ride long, ride safe!!!
Edited by varyder 2012-05-01 11:34 AM
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Visionary
Posts: 1340
Gainesville Fl Home of the Gators | I run regular until the temps hit around 90, and then switch to mid, if temps close on 100; I'll run premium. I ride the balls off my bike at all times, and with S1 programing; I have never heard a ping. |
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Visionary
Posts: 3773
Pittsburgh, PA | some say your compression ratio has something to do with what grade of octane you use. but i think its more than that as my honda accord is a 10.0-1 compression & it uses 87 octane. i think our visions are only 9.5-1 ? Ive been using the highest grade i can find in my 11 vision i think i will step down and use a lesser grade for a while.. =) |
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Iron Butt
Posts: 763
Anderson, IN (48mi NE of downtown Indianapolis) | I use 87 most often. I had the motor detonate one time when I was two gears too high and rolled the throttle wide open. An occcasional ping won't harm anything. I use 89 when I pull the trailer. The only time I use 91 is when we ride 3up with the trailer, 3 mountain bikes, and the dog. That much weight will make the Vision detonate on long steep hills if burning 87.
Motor is stock, elevation is 700ft, terrain is relatively flat. |
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Visionary
Posts: 2300
Georgia, west of Atlanta | There is alot more to detonation issues than just compression ratio. Liquid cooling is better for high compression engines but the shape of the combustion chamber, ignition timing and other things contribute too. The Victory 106 at 9.5 to 1 and a good chamber seems to have no problems........Now 11.5 to 1 might be another story........Kevin Cameron in Cycle World explains it pretty good in this months issue. |
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Visionary
Posts: 1632
Jasper, MO | I do like Kevin does. Regular in cool temperatures, going up in grades as the temperatures rise.
If you do get stuck using regular and experience pinging under heavy throttle, just go a little easier on the throttle until premium can be found.
Ronnie |
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Tourer
Posts: 494
Akron Ohio area | Victory says to use the highest octane fuel available.
Pretty simple rule to follow to keep from destroying your motor at a cost of a buck per fill-up.
When at high altitudes, octane levels can be decreased, hence the lower available octane level choices at the pump.
You'll see 85 octane regular and 89 octane premium.
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Visionary
Posts: 1340
Gainesville Fl Home of the Gators | bigfoot - 2012-05-02 12:59 PM
Victory says to use the highest octane fuel available.
That is exactly what they do not say. They recommend 91 octane, and that recommendation is based on the stupidest person in the worst conditions. |
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Visionary
Posts: 8144
New Bohemia, VA | does that mean the more our engines ping the stupider we are? |
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Tourer
Posts: 494
Akron Ohio area | Out of the owner's manual; Fuel Recommendation For best performance, use only unleaded gasoline with a 91 pump octane minimum (R+M/2 Method). I stand corrected, kind of. It does say "minimum", and 87 (what you say you run) is a long way from minimum. If Victory thought that we could run 87 regular gas (like a Goldwing), they most assuredly would tell us to do so as it would be another great selling point. Their "stupid" engineers think a minimum of 91 Octane is the way to go, and I'll believe them over you even though you are a very good mechanic. When you get your mechanical engineers degree, design and build a motorcycle, then I'll put a little more faith is what you recommend. Like I stated before, a buck a fill-up to protect my $23,000 investment is cheap insurance. I've filled up 154 times now, so I've spent an extra $154 dollars. Big freakin Whoop.
Edited by bigfoot 2012-05-02 1:12 PM
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Cruiser
Posts: 103
Duanesburg N.Y. | All I ever use is regular gas, Its not a matter of the price of the gas. I have no pinging issues at all regardless of the temp. I have never seen a difference in performance or mileage with either my Harley or the Vision. My buddy swears that the premium helps his Road King in the mileage. Eric |
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Visionary
Posts: 1340
Gainesville Fl Home of the Gators | bigfoot - 2012-05-02 2:11 PM
Out of the owner's manual; Fuel Recommendation For best performance, use only unleaded gasoline with a 91 pump octane minimum (R+M/2 Method). I stand corrected, kind of. It does say "minimum", and 87 (what you say you run) is a long way from minimum. If Victory thought that we could run 87 regular gas (like a Goldwing), they most assuredly would tell us to do so as it would be another great selling point. Their "stupid" engineers think a minimum of 91 Octane is the way to go, and I'll believe them over you even though you are a very good mechanic. When you get your mechanical engineers degree, design and build a motorcycle, then I'll put a little more faith is what you recommend. Like I stated before, a buck a fill-up to protect my $23,000 investment is cheap insurance. I've filled up 154 times now, so I've spent an extra $154 dollars. Big freakin Whoop.
Try not to put words in my mouth. I never said their engineers were stupid. What I said was that the recomendation was for the stupidest person; in the worst condition. Had Vic given a chart that described fuel needs based on condition. Some idiot would run their bike flat out in death valley on regular, and when they burned up their motor. They would blame in on unclear directives. So they just say premium all the time.
As for cost being a factor. Once again you could not be more wrong. It is about the properties of high octane fuels and the side effects of running more octane then you need. In short octane is a measurement of a fuels ability to RESIST CUMBUSTION. So when not needed it releases LESS ENERGY then a lower octane fuel in the same condition. Not only that but there is the byproduct of incomplete CUMBUSTION, and that is carbon. That carbon does two things. First it builds up on the back side of the exhaust valves, and thus reduces flow from the cyl. Second thing it does is build carbon if the crown of the piston. The carbon on the piston both increases compression over time, and since it is irregular. It creates hot spots. Both of those effects will eventually require that you run premium; because you used it when you did not need it. Finally if you run it long enough. You can actually cause a carbon knock where the build up contacts the head in the flat area around the chamber. That contact will then take out the small end of the connecting rod.
Yes the above takes a long time to happen, but it does indeed happen. These engines will run well in excess of 100k, and that gives them plenty of time to experience it. I may not have an engineering degree, but I have been working on and diagnosing engines for years before many of Polaris's engineers have bee alive. There is a good reason that many firms will accept work place experience over degrees |
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Iron Butt
Posts: 741
Central New York | It's all in the oil you use! Arr Arr Arr ;-) |
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Cruiser
Posts: 262
Flowery Branch Ga | I have a question for Kevinx----I have always used the highest octane available, usually 91 octane. I have 14,000 miles on a '10 and get pinging in high heat, hard throttle. Do I need to use an octane booster?
Edited by wtwhitelaw 2012-05-02 9:35 PM
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Visionary
Posts: 2300
Georgia, west of Atlanta | KevinX's explanation is correct. There are many things that can cause detonation AND some types cannot be heard by our ears.......... |
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Cruiser
Posts: 251
| I know that it has been awhile since I`ve had the time to keep up on this site, however, once again I am super grateful for all of the advice and comments. I will probably run a few tanks and try the octane boost, just cause I have always used the higher octane and I believe if it ain`t broke, don`t fix it...
Once again, thanks all. |
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Visionary
Posts: 1340
Gainesville Fl Home of the Gators | wtwhitelaw - 2012-05-02 10:32 PM
I have a question for Kevinx----I have always used the highest octane available, usually 91 octane. I have 14,000 miles on a '10 and get pinging in high heat, hard throttle. Do I need to use an octane booster?
If you are pinging with 91 in Ga. You need to have the bike looked at. There is something else going on |
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Puddle Jumper
Posts: 32
East Haven, CT | Such excitement!! I love it when there is a great discussion like this. |
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Cruiser
Posts: 262
Flowery Branch Ga | O.K. Thank you.
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Cruiser
Posts: 132
New York | Now you all have me thinking.... I've used Sunoco 93 octane since I've owned the Bike and live in the Adirondack mts..of NY state.... I hope that octane isn't hurting my exhaust valves like KevinX suggests..  ... Oh and it's ironic that I seen this post today because this morning I accidentally put in Regular Gas and the bike seems to run no different!.. I actually worried that it would ping badly, but I don't notice a thing different with performance... |
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Visionary
Posts: 8144
New Bohemia, VA | I think a little more than a year ago I ran about 2 or three tanks of regular and it pinged like crazy. I went about two tanks of mid-grade, and it still pinged heavy, but not as bad as the regular. Needless to say, I went back to the 93. I decided to try mid-grade again with the last fill-up. Cut with the 1/4 tank that I had left of 93, so far, so good. We'll try it again just to see what will happen this time. |
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Gasoline - Premium vs. Regular unleaded