8-ball - 2012-09-05 10:57 PM BS, just ride next to a H-D Pan or Shovel with the straight cut gears like I do at the Fall Ride in Tomahawk. Makes a Victory sound great. Feel bad you went down and glad the damage was minimal, don't make the hurt any better. Let us all know what was the cause. Just askin: What kind of oil were you using, how often you changed and do you ride a lot or does the bike sit a lot?? Not wanting to start another "oil" thread but I have concerns about the questions I asked. Heal well my Brother....

Pan or shovel ?????

How far do you have to go back in time to make the comparo ????????????????????????????

Rob

Bike is at a dealership that has the tools to do the work cause i am at work on the road with heavy on-track equpment for the Railroad. I dont have time. My shop i was working at where all my tools are and the Victory specialty items are located at is in Chesapeake, VA.

I had my accident just outside Davenport, IA in Illinois. I put 76,000+ miles on my bike in 3 years. I have run AMSOIL 20W-50 for the last 45K miles. i change oil every 4k to 5k miles without fail. Never have had an issue. And i wouldnt do the work on my own bike in this case just out of pure ethics since it is a warranty claim.

As far as noise, my trans has been just fine without any issues ever. I know to many people with way more miles and drive alot harder then i do and the trans is just fine. I am sure my issue will be just a fluke item. Not like it has never happened to bike before. I spend most of my time at hwy speeds for long distance runs. I usually run 80 mph and run through a tank of fuel in a single sitting. Not unusual for me to ride 700 to 1000 miles straight through.

As for going back in time, the most recent HD i rode was a 110 CI, 2012 that clunked just like mine did when it was new and was just as stiff.

David - just curious on some of your riding habits, if you want, you can pm with the answers.  

1. Do you ever use the engine as a brake by downshifting, or is your downshift conistant with your braking? 
2. Do you EVER shift without using the clutch? (up or down) 
3. Have you ever "missed" a  gear between a gear, e.g. going from 2 to 3, 3 to 4, etc? 
4. Has the weather been above 80 degrees when running 20w50 oil?  
5. Did you notice any unusual noises prior to the lock-up?  This could have been the same day, day before, or even weeks before, but it was unexplained.

Not interogating you my friend, and it still bothers me that you got hurt.  I'm looking for similar conditions for me as this incident is making me think hard.  Just to level set my questions, I'll answer them for myself on my bike.

1. Do you ever use the engine as a brake by downshifting, or is your downshift conistant with your braking?  I have, but rarely do.
2. Do you EVER shift without using the clutch? (up or down)  Yes, I have, many times during a short period of time.  I refrain now.
3. Have you ever "missed" a  gear between a gear, e.g. going from 2 to 3, 3 to 4, etc?   Twice, between 2 to 3 both times.
4. Has the weather been above 80 degrees when running 20w50 oil?   I used 20w50 on my trip to California. It was above 90 the whole time, with days well over 100.  I used 20w50 for the next oil change after I got home, but then went back to 40, and since then.
5. Did you notice any unusual noises prior to the lock-up?  This could have been the same day, day before, or even weeks before, but it was unexplained.  I've never noticed any directly related noise coming from the transmission, but have felt a momentary vibration from time to time that I cannot explain, and usually attribute it to the road texture.

What they find with your bike will help me decide what I might need to do.  Thanks.

Do you ever use the engine as a brake by downshifting, or is your downshift conistant with your braking?  I say i use my brakes in unison with my downshifting and would like to say i always do, that is my practive and try to keep it that way, i am sure somewhere along the way i may have used the engine only but not something i like to do.

Do you EVER shift without using the clutch? (up or down) Yes, just never from 1st to 2nd or 2nd to 1st, otherwise i do slip the gears from one to the other and have never had a noise, clunk or misshift, always been seemless since i owned the bike.

Have you ever "missed" a gear between a gear, e.g. going from 2 to 3, 3 to 4, etc? As i understand the question i have never missed a gear that i can remember, as far as the gears getting hung or jumping i cant remember it ever happening.

Has the weather been above 80 degrees when running 20w50 oil? i normally run the 20W50 anytime the weather is above 75. Below that or in the winter months i should say i run the 10w-40. Most the times i am on open hwy and this particular year been in Mid-west and out to AZ. Was in WI during July this year and they had record triple digits while i was riding up there.

Did you notice any unusual noises prior to the lock-up? This could have been the same day, day before, or even weeks before, but it was unexplained. I can't ever remember anything that struck me as unusual as far as noise or vibration at anytime that i have owned the bike. The worst thing i have experienced was a cupped front tire and of course we all know how that feels when in a turn.

willtill - 2012-09-07 6:53 AM The only appreciable wear (if any) on the engine; from downshifting; is going to be clutch wear. I fail to see how this action would grenade the gearbox unless one's downshifting actions were violent and sudden on a consistent basis...

Just a question gents, just a question that came to my mind.  My thought is that on a down shift, you may "force" the shift and that "could" cause problems in my mind, especially if you have a weak component somewhere.  I like looking at the big picture and trying to make an assessment, like shifting without the clutch.  I've done it many of times, with seemingly no issues, however, it will cause an issue if you don't do it right.  The more information you have to rule stuff in or out, the better, 90% can be tossed out though.  I have a concern, because of the miles I have on my bike and now all I do is think, "what will I do if the transmission locks up right now?"  So, please take it with a grain of salt, I wasn't insinuating that using the engine on downshift is bad on the transmission, rather the shifting action of trying to mess gears from a higher speed than the gear ratio allows.

With that said, using the wrong oil or using additives will cause early clutch failure, but nobody will admit it.  I appreciate David's honesty.

Thanks Steve, I appreciate the concern and sentiments. I am very thankful for the LUCK i had. I had angels flying with me that day without a doubt.

 I just got word from the shop with my bike that they got approval just a couple days ago to go into the bike. I also had to call the shop to get this information and then of course my extended warranty is through Zurich Claims. So i had to give that information to the shop so they could call and have proof of my extended warranty.

So i doubt i will hear anything till next week sometime.

I hear you Chris, i understand that your just asking questions. I never take that kind of stuff personally. I am glad you ask the questions you do. Makes me think and review my riding habits. Keeps us from getting complacent. I am overdue for taking a riding course. I usuualy like to take even a beginners course once a decade. Never hurts to learn something you missed before or make sure you dont have any bad habits to break. Just as information, when i usually downshift i dont force, just minor weiight of my foot on the lever and just let it fall or slip into place. Thats why engines have a compensator between the transmission and engine anyways to smooth out shifting then we also have lash in the gears and slack in the belt drive that is absorbing so much already.

 I promise to keep everyone posted as this unfolds. I wish i had an answer but i am also waiting.

ROBSXCT,

I was in second and taking a right hand turn. I had already shifted and was about to accelerate out of turn when it went clunk, then slid and then high sided.

The dealer was SUPPOSED to have actually split the case today and actually look at the transmission. I had really hoped they would have called today. I have had to CALL THEM each time to get information. It is getting irritating right now. I dont think they have been a dealer of Victory for very long. The service manager didnt realize what a job it is to pull the engine and get to the tranny. I just laughed when i was talking to him and let him know that i have been in about three Victory engines where i actually split the case so i knew exactly what he was talking about.

Good luck on what you decide to do. Might not be a bad idea to talk to your dealer and get them to inquire to Victory Tech support.

dwhite28 - 2012-09-25 8:23 PM Yes you have to pull the engine and 100% rear down. Tranny if last thing to come out. I finally learned that a great (2nd or 3rd) broke 3 teeth. This bound the tranny. They were about to put it together last weekend when they noticed the input shaft and second shaft were bent. Had to order those and send an addendum to my warranty company for approval. So maybe in another two weeks it will be complete. I say two weeks just to keep me from expecting to much.

I repair trannys in comercial equipment. I see teeth break off all the time. This is caused by excessive loads on the gear teeth. Then there is always a small amount of flex in the shaft that causes the teeth to run at there tips while under high load. A tooth will chip then fold over in between two other teeth. This causes the shafts to flex and bend or break.

But in a bike tranny I cant help think that the gear teeth breaking would be caused by (In our case) how harshly these things shift between 1st 2nd 3rd up and down. I would think eventualy that shock could break a tooth..

I never came accross broken teeth in a MC Lots of sheared off gear dogs from shifting with out a clutch  or having the revs up and putting it in gear ... but no teeth

What do you think?