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Cruiser
Posts: 91
| I was reading Michelin tire site about how many more miles they get out of their Commander 11 Tires. But they do not have a radial in vision size. They do have a 180 65 16 in bias tire. Anyone try this tire or run a bias tire on the rear? What would be the effects or is this a big no like going darkside?
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Tourer
Posts: 416
Prairie City, IA United States | I have over 10K on a Commander II on the Vision. It has very similar characteristics to the E3 as far as wet riding and curves. I am trying a Cobra Venom on the front which is a bias ply and when I change out the rear it will be gone. I will either try a Cobra Radial or go back with an E3.
Sticking with the Commander II on the rear at this point. More mileage and lower priced. |
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Visionary
Posts: 4278
| Bias and radial tires have significantly different dynamic properties. They deflect differently, create different cornering forces, have different damping characteristics, as well as other differences. In order for radial tires to be introduced into the two-wheel market, it was necessary to change certain characteristics of the motorcycle. The introduction of the radial tire led to such things as modified frames, wider wheels, new steering geometries and suspensions. Therefore, it is recommended that a motorcycle be used with the type of tire construction that it came with originally. If a change is to be made, then it should only be done if the motorcycle or tire manufacturer has approved the change. Above all, do not mix bias ply and radial tires on the same motorcycle unless it is with the approval of the motorcycle or tire manufacturer |
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Tourer
Posts: 466
Grand Cane, LA | I have the Dunlop American Elite on the rear of mine and it is listed as a 180/65/16 and it is bias ply. Have had it on now for over 5000 miles and found no ill effects. I have a Continental Conti-Motion radial up front. The American Elite is also listed as 81H for the load index which is more than the Elite 3. As far as the big "NO" like going darkside some things you will have to do a little research on your own. I have found that there can be a little misleading of information when you ask about certain things like tires!
Edited by atvtinker 2012-10-15 9:51 PM
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Cruiser
Posts: 135
Chesterfield, VA | johnnyvision - 2012-10-15 6:54 PM Bias and radial tires have significantly different dynamic properties. They deflect differently, create different cornering forces, have different damping characteristics, as well as other differences. In order for radial tires to be introduced into the two-wheel market, it was necessary to change certain characteristics of the motorcycle. The introduction of the radial tire led to such things as modified frames, wider wheels, new steering geometries and suspensions. Therefore, it is recommended that a motorcycle be used with the type of tire construction that it came with originally. If a change is to be made, then it should only be done if the motorcycle or tire manufacturer has approved the change. Above all, do not mix bias ply and radial tires on the same motorcycle unless it is with the approval of the motorcycle or tire manufacturer So did Victory or Bridgestone approve your use of the Potenza?? |
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Iron Butt
Posts: 612
| johnnyvision - 2012-10-15 5:54 PM
Bias and radial tires have significantly different dynamic properties. They deflect differently, create different cornering forces, have different damping characteristics, as well as other differences. In order for radial tires to be introduced into the two-wheel market, it was necessary to change certain characteristics of the motorcycle. The introduction of the radial tire led to such things as modified frames, wider wheels, new steering geometries and suspensions. Therefore, it is recommended that a motorcycle be used with the type of tire construction that it came with originally. If a change is to be made, then it should only be done if the motorcycle or tire manufacturer has approved the change. Above all, do not mix bias ply and radial tires on the same motorcycle unless it is with the approval of the motorcycle or tire manufacturer
Car tires are the exception to all of the above, of course. |
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Iron Butt
Posts: 880
Orlando, FL | johnnyvision - 2012-10-15 6:54 PM
Bias and radial tires have significantly different dynamic properties. They deflect differently, create different cornering forces, have different damping characteristics, as well as other differences. In order for radial tires to be introduced into the two-wheel market, it was necessary to change certain characteristics of the motorcycle. The introduction of the radial tire led to such things as modified frames, wider wheels, new steering geometries and suspensions. Therefore, it is recommended that a motorcycle be used with the type of tire construction that it came with originally. If a change is to be made, then it should only be done if the motorcycle or tire manufacturer has approved the change. Above all, do not mix bias ply and radial tires on the same motorcycle unless it is with the approval of the motorcycle or tire manufacturer
+1 +1
I am constantly amazed at the people who think tires make little difference on a motorcycle. Really, would ANY of you mix Bias ply and radial on your car? Yet on 2 wheels anything is ok? Really? Hey, it's you're ride. Enjoy. But please, don't try to convince anyone else of the safety of such tire arrangements on a bike. Really, bias play and radial mix. Let me know when you run that on a car, truck or something with 4 wheels.
Just sayin' |
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Central Wisconsin | .... Really, would ANY of you mix Bias ply and radial on your car? Yet on 2 wheels anything is ok? Really? Hey, it's you're ride. Enjoy. But please, don't try to convince anyone else of the safety of such tire arrangements on a bike. Really, bias play and radial mix. Let me know when you run that on a car, truck or something with 4 wheels. Just sayin' I believe it's the Jackpot that Victory fits with a bias in front and a radial in the rear.
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Tourer
Posts: 466
Grand Cane, LA | Correct if I'm wrong, but didn't the term of not mixing bias tires and radials were intended for cars and that you didn't want to mix the two on the same axle because of the different ride characteristics? Like Thomas said, the Jackpot comes with a bias on front and a radial on back and so does 2 bikes in the Harley lineup. |
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Visionary
Posts: 1340
Gainesville Fl Home of the Gators | sarvbill - 2012-10-16 7:45 AM
johnnyvision - 2012-10-15 6:54 PM Bias and radial tires have significantly different dynamic properties. They deflect differently, create different cornering forces, have different damping characteristics, as well as other differences. In order for radial tires to be introduced into the two-wheel market, it was necessary to change certain characteristics of the motorcycle. The introduction of the radial tire led to such things as modified frames, wider wheels, new steering geometries and suspensions. Therefore, it is recommended that a motorcycle be used with the type of tire construction that it came with originally. If a change is to be made, then it should only be done if the motorcycle or tire manufacturer has approved the change. Above all, do not mix bias ply and radial tires on the same motorcycle unless it is with the approval of the motorcycle or tire manufacturer So did Victory or Bridgestone approve your use of the Potenza??
The Potenza is of the same TYPE of construction, and while not specifically tested or approved; it may have suitable load ratings, and characteristics for a Vision. A radial tire is a spring, and vehicle spring rates along with suspension valving take that into account during the design process. Think of it this way. Since the radial tire was initiated in NASCAR. They can change the whole vehicle dynamic with a couple pounds of air pressure in a tire. That was never the case when they used ply tires.
I would rather run a radial car tire then switch to a mix of ply, and radial on my bike |
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Cruiser
Posts: 91
| Thanks for your replies. This has given me lots of information to think about.
Victor |
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Iron Butt
Posts: 880
Orlando, FL | atvtinker - 2012-10-16 11:10 PM
Like Thomas said, the Jackpot comes with a bias on front and a radial on back and so does 2 bikes in the Harley lineup.
Hey, as I said, do whatever floats your boat. I don't care what Vic or HD does when they place OEM tires on their bikes. Many of their bikes have cable clutches, but that doesn't suddenly make cable clutches state of the art. A question was asked and I gave my opinion based on info from a few engineers I know in the motorcycle tire business. We all have to make our own decisions about what we do to our rides. You can run knobby's, Tractor tires, car tires, tricycle tires or just ride on your rims. I really don't care. But telling me that it's ok to run bias ply and a radial just because Ma Vic or HD sells a bike that way doesn't really inspire confidence any more than an HD cable clutch tells me I should want a cable actuated clutch rather than a hydraulic one.
But hey, I think linked brakes are crap also. There are times when it it dangerous to actuate your front brake. Think gravel. It's common knowledge that linked brakes give you less control. But since some manufactuors have linked brakes I guess you'll argue that "it's gud" without any actual knowledge about braking effectiveness when riding a motorcycle.
Edited by MaddMAx2u 2012-10-17 3:24 PM
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Visionary
Posts: 8144
New Bohemia, VA | I would rather have unlinked brakes... |
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Visionary
Posts: 1365
Central Maryland | varyder - 2012-10-17 6:42 PM
I would rather have unlinked brakes...
Me too. I hate transitioning from the Vision to my Rocket 3 to my DR650... each has their own braking style. |
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Iron Butt
Posts: 1066
Peru, IN | It's my understanding that the "linked" part of the brakes only activates when you hit the brakes pretty hard. If you're just easing on the brakes to slow down, the rear controls the rear and the front, the front. If you slam on your brakes, you're probably going to grab both anyway. If you have ABS, it'll kick in so even if you're in gravel, you shouldn't lock up a brake. |
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Visionary
Posts: 2118
Pitt Meadows, BC Canada | 52 Years.
You LEARN something about braking using front and rear on 21 bikes owned and many more rented/loaned/borrowed.
And you LEARN something about TIRES.
And if you are SMART - you don't mess with the Manufacturer - the bike was ENGINEERED for the tires it was sold with. Nobody is trying to 'steal' your money. If YOU want to re-engineer the dynamics of the the bike - go for it - remembering the dead folks who preceded you, and your wonderful knowledge that beats out all the experience of the people who put your bike together.
What a bunch of great folks we have here who are adding to the knowledge base of our designers, other bike designers, all the dead people who we learn from, their children who might live to make a better design than what their deceased parent(s) might have thought was right.
Me? I'll stick to what works ...
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Iron Butt
Posts: 752
Broken Arrow, OK | just read this to my wife. she won't stop laughing!
dead people. That might be your best yet. Oh Lord, do continue, please! |
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Visionary
Posts: 8144
New Bohemia, VA | Don, right on, I'll stay with what works, it got me this far...now if I would just listen to my wife... |
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Iron Butt
Posts: 1109
| I replaced the first set of Dunlops with another set and that was my last set. After about 4k miles they screamed anytime you leaned on them and I didn't care for the way they stick. I won't debate the manufacturers choice, they simply send their specs to tire manufacturers and go with the lowest bidder. |
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