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Visionary
Posts: 1290
Ruskin, Fl | Has anyone installed this? I was surprised at how small the OEM air filter is. It would make sense to me that there would be a big increase in performance. The dealer said it was alot of work. Just wondering what is involved with installation and if a computer re-map is required.
Thanks
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Visionary
Posts: 1290
Ruskin, Fl | Just so people don't think I'm crazy, this twin intake is in the 2008 Arlen Ness catalog. Part number V-5160 for the performance kit. After my original post I started searching the net for more info. I can't even find it on the Ness website. |
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Cruiser
Posts: 296
Central Florida | cw1115 - 2008-07-14 5:27 PM
Has anyone installed this? I was surprised at how small the OEM air filter is. It would make sense to me that there would be a big increase in performance. The dealer said it was alot of work. Just wondering what is involved with installation and if a computer re-map is required.
Thanks
Michael, we are talking two different things. The Ness Big sucker(still in development I hear)
mounts under control panel for smoothing out the airflow. The Lloydz difuser does the same thing and is very easy to install. It is approx a 10 minute job...
The air filter(mounts under headlight) remains as is.. |
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Visionary
Posts: 1290
Ruskin, Fl | Thanks. I think we're talking about a similar product. The photo in the Ness catalog shows a new filter to replace the origional and than a bolt on bracket with a second larger filter. Draws air from both. I'll check out Lloydz, prob. cheaper. |
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Cruiser
Posts: 296
Central Florida | cw1115 - 2008-07-14 9:10 PM
Thanks. I think we're talking about a similar product. The photo in the Ness catalog shows a new filter to replace the origional and than a bolt on bracket with a second larger filter. Draws air from both. I'll check out Lloydz, prob. cheaper.
You already have a K&N type air filter on the front that came with your S1L1.
Lloydz diffuser is same price as Ness Big sucker.
mounts under control panel. remove speedo bezel with putty knife(to avoid scratching)
4 allen head bolts (2 front and 2 rear) removes control panel.
six bolts hold factory plate(above throttle bodies) remove those and replace with Lloydz diffuser
after placing adhesive down before rebolting. Makes more noise(Hooveresque)
but makes a difference !
more than S1L1 pipes which add NO HP or TQ just noise(according to Lloyd)
my bike with S1L1 Lloydz diffuser and VFC III made 89.7 HP and 104.5 TQ
it ran very rich above 3000 rpm and probably left 5 HP and 5 TQ on the table.. |
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Visionary
Posts: 1290
Ruskin, Fl | I think we are talking about two different products. Ness has finally added the twin sucker for the Vision to his website. Pulls air through two separate air filters. Not sure were the second one mounts except "on top". I would think it would make an improvement. The original filter seems small for 106 C.I. engine.
http://www.arlenness.com/c-189-ness-twin-sucker.aspx
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Cruiser
Posts: 64
Columbia,MO | The Ness top sucker mounts in the exact same place as Lloyds intake. I would say with the same amount of work. There is a solid plate with six bolts mounted to the top of the tubular frame under the console. Both intakes take the place of that solid plate and allow air into the frame which is basically the airbox. Hope this helps. |
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Tourer
Posts: 319
| They have such wonderful improvements...........but dam if they supply a dyno chart....to show you the performance you gain........or lose. |
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Iron Butt
Posts: 810
| Lloydz advertises 8HP increase for the air-box mod by itself. I have the air-box mod, the Ness Big Honkers and the VFC3. The dyno-tune only showed a +5/+5 increase for all 3 mods combined. I was looking forward to the 8+HP, but it didn't happen. YMMV.
Tim |
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Puddle Jumper
Posts: 30
Bellevue, NE | Lloydz had a similar product as the Ness twin sucker but now I don't see it. Anyway, I went with Lloydz intake plate and you can sure hear the air flowing more while it idles. It also made an improvement in throttle response.
I wonder if Lloydz discontinued the twin sucker-type product he had because the intake plate made a similar difference and wasn't such an undertaking to install? |
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Cruiser
Posts: 59
Woodstock, GA | Hey Mazman-
I was talking with a service tech at the local dealer, and he said he had installed one of the Lloyd's intakes, and he said it was obnoxiously noisy. Do you feel that way as well? Anyone else have a similar experience? |
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Cruiser
Posts: 223
Valdosta, GA | The Ness Twin sucker and Lloydz original secondary intake are very close to the same. Lloydz initial design used two K&N filters attached to a mounting plate. His first shipment ot filters from K&N were crush. While waiting for replacements, he decided to modify his design to what we now know as his Vision Diffuser, a foam filter element sandwiched between to framing plates.
As for the HP increase...it's just shy 8hp. I have the dyno chart that shows it. As a matter of fact, it was my Vision he used to test out the prototype in Daytona. Went from a S1L1 setup with VFC at 82hp|100.5ft/lbs to 88.75hp|102.75ft/lbs with the filter.
TimS, are you basing the increase on numbers that Victory advertised or a dyno run you did prior to the install? Remember, Victory's advertised numbers are at the crank, not at the wheel. |
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Tourer
Posts: 388
Salisbury, NC | The throttle plate from Lloyd's does increase the noise level, but it also increases the power enough to be worth the extra airflow you hear. With the stock air filter, it is not as loud as with the K&N filter that was installed with the Stage1 Level 2 pipes. ET |
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Puddle Jumper
Posts: 36
Glendale, AZ. | <strong>I installed the Arlen Ness Twin Sucker on Saturday. It's just as easy as the Loydds. The ness air filter actually has a KN fiter built into it. It should be able to suck more air. I had the Loydds air filter before with the vfc111 and stage 1 pipes. Before the vfc it dynoed at 95.2 hp and 105.7 lbs. After the vfc I lost 3 horse power on top but gained about 3 hp from 3500 to 4500. I will dyno the bike next week and let you now if the Ness Twin Suker makes a difference. Also I have removed the VFC. I ordered the Power Commander which is a lot easier to tune, so says the dyno guy.</strong> |
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Iron Butt
Posts: 810
| mike s - 2008-07-29 6:34 AM ... TimS, are you basing the increase on numbers that Victory advertised or a dyno run you did prior to the install? Remember, Victory's advertised numbers are at the crank, not at the wheel. Stock Dyno numbers versus Modified Dyno numbers. If do the math with the factory crank numbers, then the gain would be negative =). Tim |
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Iron Butt
Posts: 810
| chahn1 - 2008-07-29 7:06 AM ...Power Commander which is a lot easier to tune, so says the dyno guy. My dyno guy said the same thing. He said he could tune each cylinder with its own unique settings with the PowerCommander. I just hope someone makes the maps for the Vision to go with it. Here is the response I received from the Power Commander Folks. The need Visions to make maps for it.
"We have tested part #938-411 on the Vision and it does work. We are probably not going to endorse it as we just can’t get our hands on many of them (Visions) to develop maps but you definitely can use it. Thanks." Tim |
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Puddle Jumper
Posts: 30
Bellevue, NE | Hey BSSquared62-
I don't think the air inrush noise is "obnoxiously loud". It is noticeable but not loud. You can hear it at idle but isn't anything objectionable. I don't hear it while riding and do notice the improvement in a crisper throttle response. |
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Iron Butt
Posts: 810
| I just got an update from PowerCommander. They have a shop in Las Vegas and are looking for Visions with various modification combinations to make maps for.
"The local Arlen Ness/Victory dealer has been pushing the Vision Power Commanders quite a bit so we will eventually release it for this model as they are getting good results. I need to get another one in here to take install pics. Once I have an install guide we will release it so look for it in August. We currently have the attached maps but if you know of someone with any other mods send them our way. The bike would need to be dropped off for the day."
Edited by TimS 2008-07-29 12:07 PM
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Iron Butt
Posts: 849
, FL United States | I installed Llyod's diffuser breather and it makes a HUGE difference in low end get away. Yeah, it's a little noisy but the increase in low end is well worth the extra noise. I installed this myself and it wasn't hard at all. I'm NOT a wrench, so it had to be easy lol (and it was). |
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Iron Butt
Posts: 810
| Please post your response with the PowerCommander (e.g. dyno results, decel popping, etc.). Thanks, Tim |
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Visionary
Posts: 2300
Georgia, west of Atlanta | Been along time since anyone posted on this subject. Any more info on the ness twin suckers vs the Lloyds air filters ?? |
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Visionary
Posts: 3773
Pittsburgh, PA | when you install that top filter in place of the plate. get ready for increased Noise! |
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Cruiser
Posts: 256
| I installed the twin sucker. I don't think it is loud and I hoped for a mpg increase. I got a small increase. Not much. |
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Visionary
Posts: 2300
Georgia, west of Atlanta | What I've wondered reading this thread is do you actually need the extra air filter to feed more air through the stock throttle bodies, intake ports and past the stock size intake valves. One of these componets is the weak point in the"air" chain and there's no use adding another filter if the stock location with a high flow filter ( K&N or K&N like ) will flow as much air as can get through the stock ports ect......... Do you seee what I'm saying?? |
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Cruiser
Posts: 256
| I do and don't know the answer. However the easier it is for the air to enter the chamber the better. |
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Cruiser
Posts: 215
orrick, mo | I may be wrong but I think the whole point is to smooth out and increase the air flow to the throttle body. I will find out soon though I just ordered Llyods. Can't wait to see how much it will impact performance. I'm actually looking forward to hearing some induction sound. I liked the way it sounded on my old VTX but if I don't I guess I just have another reason to crank the tunes.  |
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Tourer
Posts: 482
Beer Collins, Colorado (there is no fort) | I added the top half of a Ness Twin Sucker a few weeks back and intake noise increase was minimal-pipes seem a bit louder? Roll ons seem a bit more crisp and that's about it-Brian |
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Visionary
Posts: 2300
Georgia, west of Atlanta | I just installed a Lloyds intake plate with the sandwich air filter media, it's not too loud, looking at the pics of the Ness top sucker it should have more airflow filter area, will it flow more ?? Only a back to back dyno comparison would tell you that..................And it may not make any difference if the throttle bodies or valves sizes are the airflow choke point........... |
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Ness "Twin sucker"