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Cruiser
Posts: 92
Moncks Corner, SC United States | For anyone thinking of installing the adjustable timing wheel on anything. A word of warning. Do not assume the 2 smaller adjustment bolts are tight from the factory. I installed the wheel about 5 or 6 weeks ago and was amazed at the increase in performance. But due to the weather and work was only able to get out and ride a couple of times after the install. Going to work one night, I noticed a very loud engine knock. I got the bike home and let it sit for a day or two before starting it up to troubleshoot. Now it was even worse than before. I decided to pull the timing wheel back out and installing the original before taking the bike up to my local dealer for thier opinion. When I removed the cover plate I found both of the adjusment bolts had backed out about 1/4 inch and the wheel was just sloppy loose in all directions. Cleaned the threads of oil and added some locktight and retorqued. Good as new, and hopefully no long term damage done. |
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Tourer
Posts: 499
Chattanooga, TN | Good to know. Sorry to hear about the trouble though. |
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Tourer
Posts: 573
Central Illinois | I guess I can be happy that I decided not to accept the preset 4 degrees. I know darned well I tightened mine after the adjustment I made. |
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Puddle Jumper
Posts: 19
Town creek, AL United States | are these really worth the money to replace.just curious |
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Visionary
Posts: 1365
Central Maryland | bigdf150 - 2013-12-23 6:11 PM
are these really worth the money to replace.just curious
Apparently. I've not seen a negative review of it; to date.
I believe that there's one under the Christmas tree right now for me :-) |
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Visionary
Posts: 4278
| bigdf150 - 2013-12-23 5:11 PM are these really worth the money to replace.just curious yes you will not believe how much it improves your bike. Make sure you get the gasket. Its the only part you can put on your bike and feel by the seat of your pants how much better your bike runs. Start at +4 and after a few 100 mile move it to plus+6 and see if you feel more power |
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Puddle Jumper
Posts: 19
Town creek, AL United States | do you have to do any remapping so it doesnt get to lean.and also bike is still under warranty will this affect it.
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Iron Butt
Posts: 691
Manchester, CT | no remapping required. like with any mods to the engine, the dealer has to prove that any issue that arises is directly due to the modification. |
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Visionary
Posts: 4278
| bigdf150 - 2013-12-23 6:37 PM do you have to do any remapping so it doesn't get to lean.and also bike is still under warranty will this affect it. yes it should get leaner on some motors. So track your mileage now and them when you put wheel in check your mileage. you get above 45mpg thats lean. Just un hook your 02's and it will richen it up by about 3 mpg. Of coarse you have to listen for pinging or motor knock. I doughty you will have any problems and if you did pull wheel and put stock one back in. |
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Tourer
Posts: 576
, IA | I read u need to run 91 gas |
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Visionary
Posts: 1365
Central Maryland | Well, Ms Klaus presented a Lloydz timing wheel this a.m. along with a gasket. Now to get this thing installed; as soon as the temps arise a little. I don't ride below freezing... |
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Visionary
Posts: 4278
| sonicbluerider - 2013-12-25 11:32 AM I read u need to run 91 gas It all depends if your riding on flat land you can get by being cheap. If your in hill country yes 91 would be best. |
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Tourer
Posts: 573
Central Illinois | I have been using 89 octane in my bike since August and never experienced any ping or knock, not even under a heavy load. I have my timing wheel set at 3 degrees, a bit less than the preset. It woke up my engine without any impact on fuel grade required that I can see. The only reason I don't run 87 octane yet is because I wanted to make darned sure there are no issues at 89. There are 2 possible issues where a higher octane might help. The first is an early spark causing cylinder pressure to rise too fast and produce a ping. The other is detonation caused by ignition in advance of the spark, the pre-ignition condition. That one has absolutely nothing to do with spark timing since by definition it is ignition before the spark happens. It is caused by compression causing ignition at a hot spot in your cylinder much like the way a diesel runs using the hot glow plug. Octane changes can definitely affect the likelihood of that happening since octane ratings are all about how easy it is to cause rapid combustion. It is far more prevalent in high compression, 11+, engines. |
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Visionary
Posts: 1365
Central Maryland | That's good info you posted above there Oldman47. Thanks! |
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New user
Posts: 2
, IL United States | Let me start by saying my dealer is the BEST.
Words to live by "Do not assume the 2 smaller adjustment bolts are tight from the factory."
Long story short.
My dealer did the install of the adjustable timing wheel. I rode about 40 miles I got a ping, then a knock last the bike died.
I could not fire it back up.
I called the dealer and the bike was towed. They pulled the cover and found the timing wheel had one loose bolt and one has fallen out. The timing had jumped.
They replaced the bolts and the bike now has had a LOUD knock. Dealer calls me with an update they ask if they can tear it down it investigate? I say YES?
They tell me the front cylinder, cylinder wall and head has been damaged.
Later that day my dealer drops off a loaner 2013 CCT to my front door 47 miles away from his shop.
Within the next 3 weeks he rebuilds my motor and my bike runs great it's smoother than ever.
We are all happy now?
Edited by HDogg 2013-12-26 7:49 AM
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Tourer
Posts: 324
New Orleans, La, | I have read many post touting the dramatic increased performance after installing the timinig wheel on a stock motored bikes and I am intrigued. I would like to hear the impressions of owners of modified motored bikes. I currently have installed a VFC3, top filter 1st edition, Lloydz hacked ECM, 1st edition cams, and S1Ls exhaust. I look forward to the targeted owners response. Thanx. |
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Iron Butt
Posts: 691
Manchester, CT | I have a very similar setup except I have the PCV and witchdoctor vooddoo exhaust. Before the timing wheel, low end torque was missing compared to 3000 rpm on up. At 3000 rpm, I compare it to a car with a 4 barrel when the additional 2 barrels kick in. I regained the torque below 3000 after installing the timing wheel. The other HUGE difference in performance came after Kyle at KMC Powersports, dyno tuned my bike. My gas mileage went down but my thrill/fun meter pinned the needle! |
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Tourer
Posts: 494
Akron Ohio area | johnnyvision - 2013-12-25 7:05 PM sonicbluerider - 2013-12-25 11:32 AM I read u need to run 91 gas It all depends if your riding on flat land you can get by being cheap. If your in hill country yes 91 would be best. Actually, the closer you are to Sea Level, the more octane you need. The next time you visit the mountains, notice that they sell 85 octane there. Vehicles that need 87 octane in most parts of our country can get by on 85 octane at higher elevations. In fact, it's hard to find 91 or higher octane once you're over 7,000 feet in elevation. |
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Visionary
Posts: 1365
Central Maryland | So can I pop off the timing cover with the bike on the sidestand; or do I need to put it on the tip overs; so no oil drains out? |
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Visionary
Posts: 4278
| willtill - 2013-12-26 2:44 PM So can I pop off the timing cover with the bike on the sidestand; or do I need to put it on the tip overs; so no oil drains out? On side stand is just fine. Put a towel over pipes so not to scratch them and put rag in dip stick hole so nothing falls in. |
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Tourer
Posts: 430
| I had the timing wheel installed on my bike about 4 months - 2k miles ago. what a positive difference. Besides the lower end waking up I noticed about a 90% decrease in popping on decel. The product is well worth the $ - thanks Lloyd  |
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Visionary
Posts: 1365
Central Maryland | Well. I installed my Lloydz timing wheel yesterday; following guidance from this board (Johnnyvision, et al.) Couple of observations during the install:
1. The timing wheel bolt was very difficult to remove from the shaft initially. There were a couple of moments where I thought the threads were "stripping out" due to the felt resistance. I ran the bolt back in periodically until I finally was able to remove it. Cause? A huge amount of factory applied threadlocker.
2. Remove the OEM timing wheel itself after the bolt was removed. The timing wheel seemingly did not want to budge off of the shaft. Started gently prying around it and realized that all you really needed to do was wiggle it from all angles repetitively and tenaciously; and eventually it started to slide off with microscopic movement detected.
3. OEM gasket did tear in two places; glad I had a replacement gasket available from Lloydz as well.
4. Did use blue Locktite on the two adjustment bolts on the Lloydz timing wheel as well; I think that should be remarked since bad things will happen if that adjustment wheel starts "self adjusting on it's own, if those bolts ever came loose.
Haven't been able to take it out yet due to all of the salt on the roads around here. But we have rain today; hopefully it'll be enough to wash the salt away; and I can see what gains in power that I have.
Edited by willtill 2014-02-03 5:57 AM
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Visionary
Posts: 4278
| You have just spent your money the right way.
I have read where one guy had nothing but problem pinching the pick up wire so bad he need a new one. Of coarse he did say him and his buddy had been drinking. Another guy tried taking the timing bolt out by going the wrong way and snapped it off. |
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Cruiser
Posts: 92
Moncks Corner, SC United States | You will not be disappointed. Make a note of how fast you hit the rev limiter. |
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Cruiser
Posts: 50
Virginia Beach, VA | Timing wheel is the only mod I've done so far. Works as advertised. 1800-2800 rpm area is quick. But, as Willtill stated, be careful with the shaft bolt. I was worried that it may snap. I did the same, worked it back on and off, giving it a little break in between, to let it cool off. I've had bolts like that snap off and was very concerned with this. I used lock tite (red), just a small dab on all three bolts on the wheel and also on the floor board bolts. Torqued everything as recommended. If you don't do anything else, do this. |
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Puddle Jumper
Posts: 49
Madison/Huntsville, AL | willtill - 2014-02-03 5:55 AM ... 2. Remove the OEM timing wheel itself after the bolt was removed. The timing wheel seemingly did not want to budge off of the shaft. Started gently prying around it and realized that all you really needed to do was wiggle it from all angles repetitively and tenaciously; and eventually it started to slide off with microscopic movement detected.. I've seen a lot of posts, and I concur, these are easy to install and an immediate seat of the pants performance improvement (at the low end). Love it, recommend it. Having said that, this is the first time I've seen somone note the one difficulty I had. In theory the old timing gear 'just slips off' the shaft after the bolt is removed. Mine was so dificult to 'slide' off, I double, triple, quadruple checked to make sure I wasn't missing something. But as Willtill said, if you're having trouble just keep working it. It does in fact 'just slip off'. |
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Tourer
Posts: 573
Central Illinois | Tom, my OEM wheel was not easy to remove, yet it was. What I mean is that it seemed to be firmly affixed to the shaft at first but I was able to wiggle it loose using only my hands and a fair dose of patience. I may well have spent 2 or 3 minutes just using my hands in different positions on that OEM wheel and giving tugs with each hand one after the other until it started to look like it was moving. After that things moved much faster. |
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Visionary
Posts: 1365
Central Maryland | So I have another question about the 4 degree advance on the Lloydz timing wheel. Should it not ensure a more "cleaner" burn of fuel; since it's igniting it a little more prematurely?
Just changed out my sparkplugs today; along with WitchDoctors yellow/Reg aftermarket plug wires... and was surprised at how rich they looked (16K on the plugs - OEM). I have a Dobeck controller; top Lloyds air filter and the S1L2's. I went and adjusted the Dobeck's Idle/Accelerate/WOT settings back down to baseline for now.
Bike still pulls like a freight train. Am wondering if it was the winter fuel -or- timing wheel -or- Dobeck that made my plugs so rich.
When I say rich; I meant that the ground strap was grayish white, the porcelain on the electrode was brown with shades of black and the lower threads were completely, sooty black. Here's a Picture of them:
Sorry for the crappy quality of the pic...
Edited by willtill 2014-02-23 12:02 PM
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Visionary
Posts: 4278
| Plugs look great. Way better then stock. Just keep track of mileage around 42 to 45 is good over that your burning exhaust valves.
Yes you might have to readjust your tuner. Do you get winter gas there. Summer gas will not be out for another two months I believe. |
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Tourer
Posts: 341
West Salem, WI United States | So I finally got and installed the timing wheel, I left it at +4. All I can say is "why did I wait?". The install really was as easy as stated, my stock wheel came of easily with a little rocking motion. I used an air ratchet and the center bolt backed out pretty easy, and yes it was coated with thread locker. I used loctite blue on all 3 bolts. It's very subtle, but it just feels like the bike woke up, feels stronger. I don't know if this is typical but I think my shift points are a bit higher, probably me just feeling like the bike wants to pull a bit longer in each gear? Most importantly though, I'm not shifting as much while cruising around the hills and valleys. 3rd or 4th gear feel stronger especially when the rpm is between 2500 and 3000. And, did you guys notice that the bike starts quicker too!
Edited by ljurgens 2014-06-05 7:42 AM
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Iron Butt
Posts: 802
| You know it really is fortunate that we have someone like Lloyd around to take the initiative to develop and offer products like this. It's a pretty limited market so the big guys probably wouldn't bother. The result is that we have all this fun stuff to play with that ultimately make our bikes run so much better. It's a good reason to support him whenever we get the chance.
Marc |
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Cruiser
Posts: 67
| Had mine done about a month ago with a top air filter and tuner and then dyno tuned. All I can say is this old guy feels like a kid in a candy shop with the throttle in my hand now. Worst part is I will probably get my hand slapped for that right hand getting in the throttle jar sooner than later..... LOL |
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Cruiser
Posts: 50
Virginia Beach, VA | Tom13,
I installed the timing wheel several months ago. Then yesterday evening I installed the top filter and the VFC-III. I haven't had the chance to take it for a spin yet, but I'm looking forward to it. Maybe after work today, weather permitting. What kind of numbers did you get of the Dyno for yours? I have a 2013 VV Goldmist also but I don't have the stage 1 on mine. I still have stock pipes, I like the quiet.
Edited by Haze_Gray 2014-06-05 10:10 AM
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Cruiser
Posts: 67
| Haze Gray
My numbers of the dyno tune with a stage one were start HP 94.01 Torque 110.51 After HP 99.77 Torque 114.15. The big difference was how long the torque lasted at the 110 pound mark on the original run it dropped significantly after 3500 RPM's to around 105 after it hung in there until 4500 RPM's then a very noticable drop to 5500 RPM's With the tuning done it ran right up to 114 pounds and stayed there until 4500 started the gradual drop still pulling over 100 pounds to about 5200 RPM. Haven't had a day to just relearn how to ride it because work has been insane lately but hope to get that done in the next week or so. Actually Ryland did the work at the Vic Shop "TVS" in Adel, IA and I believe that he can get some good numbers out of the stock pipes, also to get those numbers on my old SOB bike it would have cost me thousands got this done for under a grand. I would give Ryland a call super nice guy and very impressed with his work. He has specialized on the victory motors for many years and is happy to share any information to get you steered in the right direction. Once again the Dream Catcher has given me that great big smile.......
Hope this helps give some ideas on what to expect with this combination of parts.
PS he set the timing to 2 degrees advanced so I can burn regular fuel instead of premium told me using the 87 octane that I should see even better numbers the way he tuned it. Thought that was pretty cool that it will actually run better on cheaper gas told me to only go to higher octane if it starts any pre ignition but should not have a problem the way it is tuned.
Edited by Tom13 2014-06-05 12:43 PM
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Cruiser
Posts: 50
Virginia Beach, VA | TOM13,
Thanks for the info. Those are some good numbers. I'll Have to see about getting mine on the Dyno one of these days. I might run to Myrtle Beach in October during Bike Week and have it done then. I based what I installed on Lloydz dyno charts, with the top filter and the VFC3 it shows about 101 HP max and 103 max torque. I can't wait to get it out for ride to see how it runs. Supposed to be riding to Monticello this Saturday. With a good mix of back roads and highways it'll be a 400-500 mile day riding from Virginia Beach. That's the best part of this bike, being able to ride it all day long and enjoy every minute of it. |
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Iron Butt
Posts: 752
Broken Arrow, OK | Getting hot and humid and I was pinging at +4 running loaded 2up, towing trailer on the highway. Dialed it to +2, sigh...... |
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Cruiser
Posts: 67
| OK had a great weekend went to see family and to do that got in almost 500 miles since my upgrades. Couple of things of note my mileage was around 37.5 burning regular fuel. I was running right at a 70 mph average cruise set with an occasional run up of the speedometer for fun. On the trip up I left in a down pour and ran in a good soaker for 60 miles the last 100 in a pretty stiff head wind. On the way home no rain and also a head wind..... Damn, it was just like when I went to school as a kid up hill both ways during the walk. Averaged about the same numbers on the trip home but was a little more aggressive because I was going to have to go into work or so it looked like it. The wife and I both filled and then refilled our tanks at the 140 mile mark hers a VW Tdi and my Vision well she beat me by three bucks in fuel. Of coarse she had to rub it in until I asked her just how much fun was she having following me.....LOL My bike has never done that great mileage wise but the big difference is the 2 to 3 buck difference every fill not having to burn the high octane yet still having the incredible increase in performance. Being in 6th gear running along and just laying into the throttle without having to grab a gear is real nice for an old guy that still likes to feel like a kid once in a while.
Of note: I was having some problems with backfire and slow speed smooth running lets say cruising along at 15-25 MPH. The backfire I found that if I eased off the throttle it would do it but if I just dropped it back to idle position no backfire self fixed. After talking with Ryland at TVS he was explaining to me that these Victory Motors are not like HD they need to run more like you would run a crotch rocket in other words they like the 2000 to 3000 RPM range not lugging at just above idle 1000 to 2000 RPM range. So once again after years riding HD I am still a student of this great machine which by the way is some of the best learning I have had to do in a long while. Will try another test running mid grade fuel and see how that works posting as I find out......
Edited by Tom13 2014-06-11 6:00 AM
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Visionary
Posts: 4278
| I have had the 02's hooked up with little popping. I un hooked the 02's and still get popping. Funny I normally get the popping when shifting the first five miles and then no more popping for the next 168 miles. Then leaving a stop light and will get one or two pops when shifting then nothing.
I do think humidity has a lot to do with it.
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Adjustable timing wheel