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Visionary
Posts: 3204 Memphis | Colder temps have a dramatic effect on MPG. I rode to work on a 70 degree day recently and got 44 MPG (Stage 1/Level 1). The next day, it was 38 degrees and got 37 MPG. Same tank of gas, same exact route and speed (fairly flat, 70-75 mph). A stock bike with the temps in the 80-90 range this summer should get close to 50 MPG. Just a note for you new guys. |
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Cruiser
Posts: 102 Madison, AL | SongFan,
Interesting post, since without testing the MPG/TEMP idea, I would have thought it would be the other way around. Since cooler temps produce more HP due to more oxygen in the air, ergo more to burn that what is coming out of your tank.
Just looked on a website that talks about fuel economy. They state that the engine is less efficient at cooler temps and needs to warm up and something else to consider that I wouldn't have is; summer gasoline contains about 1.7% more energy than winter gasoline. Now that is a surprise. I knew there was a difference in the different formulations of gas but not a seasonal difference.
http://www.fueleconomy.gov/feg/factors.shtml
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Cruiser
Posts: 185 Nebraska | Dont really pay attention in the Pick Up. Seems to suck no matter what. On the Vision though definitely worse in lower temps. Real bad below 40 or so. |
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Visionary
Posts: 3773 Pittsburgh, PA | mylittle suv is the same way. in the summer i get 21-23mpg. recently i have been getting on short trips in the winter temps between 15-17mpg. |
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Visionary
Posts: 1340 Gainesville Fl Home of the Gators | Short trips in cold weather keep the bike in an enrichment cycle. Lot's of extra fuel being burned |
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Iron Butt
Posts: 742 North Orange County CA | OK so heres a question for you.
If engine operating temperature has such a dramatic effect on fuel economy would it not make sense to cover the oil cooler when the ambient temperature drops below say 40-50 degrees (since the Vision does not appear to have a thermostat)?
This appears to be S.O.P. for HD riders with oil coolers.
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Visionary
Posts: 1340 Gainesville Fl Home of the Gators | Tarpits99 - 2009-01-12 1:10 AM
OK so heres a question for you.
If engine operating temperature has such a dramatic effect on fuel economy would it not make sense to cover the oil cooler when the ambient temperature drops below say 40-50 degrees (since the Vision does not appear to have a thermostat)?
This appears to be S.O.P. for HD riders with oil coolers.
Temp is measured at the cyl, and is in the metal; not the oil stream. Blocking the cooler would do more to confuse the ECM then to improve warm up. |
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Visionary
Posts: 3204 Memphis | Man, I'm glad you answered this Kevin. I was going to ask you or dwhite28 about it. It made perfect sense since I block the oil cooler on my '69 Baja Bug but it's old school. I was about to ask a seamstress friend of mine to design little Vision oil cooler booties and she could make a killing by claiming to raise the MPG by 20%! |
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Tourer
Posts: 301 Buffalo Grove,Ill | I drive a hybrid car, a Toyota Prius and on one of our websites (priuschat.com) we have had this conversation for years. In the summer when temps are in the high 70's to the 90's i can get between 50-55 mpg without trying. When winter shows up, (about 7 months a year it seams here in Chicago) and the temp drops to +20 to - ? i get 38 -42 Two main reasons are that the car likes to be warm so the Gas engine runs more and longer to keep itself warm. And also the oil company's put winter additives in the gas to keep it from freezing and these additives are not cooperative to mileage. I bought some pipe insulation and when the temp drops below +40 i completely block off my grill. What this does is obvious it keeps the engine compartment warmer and my mielage goes up by 4 - 5 mpg. I know its harder to block off the engine in a bike but if you can raise the temp even a little bit in the winter it will help your mileage. |
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Visionary
Posts: 3204 Memphis | Okay, I've been mulling this over and can't see where blocking the oil cooler on a cold day would have an adverse effect on the motor. Even if the temp probe is taken from the case, so what. The whole point is to get the oil temp up to where it will thin out, circulate better and evaporate any condensation. The temp probe would notice a warmer engine and adjust accordingly but it shouldn't adversely effect anything, right? If my mileage improves also, all the better. I have been stuck in a massive traffic jam for nearly 10 hours on an 80 degree day and the oil temp never got above 210. I don't think it would be possible to overheat this engine on a winter day. My commute is about 25 miles/30 minutes. The cold oil seems like it is doing more harm than good. Am I missing something? |
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Visionary
Posts: 1340 Gainesville Fl Home of the Gators | Blocking the cooler will have little effect on where the temp is taken at the cyl. However blocking the cooler would reduce the removal of heat from the exhaust valve. Not the effect you are after. Now IF there was a difference the next question would be..... What about the conflict of air vs. engine temps. Thee are both looked at by the ECM for the A\F equation. If the engine reads hotter then the ECM thinks it should be baed on air temp. It wouldd most likely reduce timing, or increase fuel load. |
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Visionary
Posts: 3204 Memphis | Dang it. |
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Visionary
Posts: 1340 Gainesville Fl Home of the Gators | I'm not saying it posativly won't work. Experimentation is the only true way to find out. These coolers are different then an HD. On our bikes they cool the internal hot spots with a dedicated system. On an HD it cools the oil returning to the oil bag, and the thing it does best is to keep your crotch from blistering |
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Tourer
Posts: 367 Cottage Grove, Mn | I'm SOOOOOOOO confused! Did we all not buy these bikes for their fantastic design, power and performance, comfort, riding and handling characteristics among the many other of its attributes as well as our desire for riding pleasure? Or did we buy them for their fuel economy? For me as long as it has better economy than my cage I'm a happy guy.
But hey that's just my opinion!
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Visionary
Posts: 1340 Gainesville Fl Home of the Gators | Blackjack - 2009-01-12 4:09 PM
I'm SOOOOOOOO confused! Did we all not buy these bikes for their fantastic design, power and performance, comfort, riding and handling characteristics among the many other of its attributes as well as our desire for riding pleasure? Or did we buy them for their fuel economy? For me as long as it has better economy than my cage I'm a happy guy.
But hey that's just my opinion!
So your saying it's wrong to try, and make a good thing better?? |
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Visionary
Posts: 3006 San Antonio, TX | Blackjack,
One of the selling points of the Vision to "The one who approves all purchases, AKA (The Wife)" was the better gas mileage then the trailblazer that I still own. After doing the math, using the mileage that I run, the bike would be paid for in only 18 years. We looked at the numbers and had a good laugh.
The only reason that I am interested about gas mileage is running a long distance and not being able to predict when I need to stop for more.
I came too close for comfort on my last tank. I put 5.7 gallons in the tank. I have made the same run in the summer and it took 4.5 gallons.
This thread explains why it changes in the winter.
Ride Safe! |
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Tourer
Posts: 367 Cottage Grove, Mn | Kevinx; Sorry if I miss led you, no I don't think its wrong if you can make the fuel economy better. I was only implying that the bike has so many other great qualities that the loss of a few mpg in cooler temps doesn't seem like a big thing to me. Hell; I'm envious of the people that can ride year round when the weather turns cool. To me it's just a recreational vehicle and I don't care what it cost me to have fun and recreate.
But again that's just my opinion. It's what works for me. For the record; I keep a fuel log just so I can brag to my HD buddies and for the life of the bike I have gotten 39 mpg overall, that includes a couple of trips riding two up and towing a trailer in temps ranging from 35 – 95 degrees.
Radioteacher; I with you on almost running out of fuel (scary) it happened to me in Canada last year the temps had cooled down and I wasn't paying attention and I got cocky and over ran a fuel stop (S/O wasn't thrilled with me when I told her we might be walking) so now when I travel I check every tank and then use my GPS to track along my route to see where the location of the next fuel stop was. Can we ever own one of these things long enough the recover the investment? Maybe if we left all the chrome back at the dealer (LOL)
Ride safe
Blackjack
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Visionary
Posts: 3204 Memphis | The fact that I'm even nitpicking MPG shows how good the bike is. My next mission will be installing some sort of custom vent system into the fairing when the weather gets warm. Even though they work great, I just can't bring myself to put the wind deflectors on the sides.
Edited by SongFan 2009-01-12 8:15 PM
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Visionary
Posts: 1484 LaPorte,Tx. | Blackjack - 2009-01-12 6:57 PM
Can we ever own one of these things long enough the recover the investment? Ride safe
Blackjack
Blackjack, this is an investment in life.
On the cool weather mpg, I have noticed about a 3 mpg shift down during this winters riding. |
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Tourer
Posts: 367 Cottage Grove, Mn | Vision Tex
With two of them in my garage that must mean i am going to live a really long time(lol) |
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Tourer
Posts: 301 Buffalo Grove,Ill | Or Die with a big ass grin on your face ! |
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Tourer
Posts: 367 Cottage Grove, Mn | I would rather die with a big ass grin on my face from something besides owning two bikes if you get my drift, but if it's two bikes so be it.
Blackjack |
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