VisionTex - 2009-04-18 9:20 AM Do's or Don't, we love our oil threads!!!!

Woooo Hoooo! That's what I'm talkin' about.

I got to go and fix my water pump, but my waterheater is doing fine. What does that have to do with motorcycling or the Vision? EVERYTHING! I can't ride them until I get it FIXED!

Hey, when are we going to start the air thread again? I use Vision-aire in my tires!

In they Army they taught us that we could put anything slick in there if it was critical to getting somewhere and regular oil couldn't be found.

The only thing that I've heard from a negative stand point on oil is using QuakerState in the old days when it was parafin based and then using a detergent oil. It would breakup the parafin and clog the passages which would certainly cause a problem.

I also recall a friend who had 440 police interceptor plymouth fury. He throw a rod and knocked a hole in the block one night and drove it over 50 miles home. It still started up the next day and ran. It made a racket, but it was still running. Point: just run something in your engine that is made for it. I respect the wrenches and opinions, but unless you are doing everything yourself and know expicity the habit of your customer, it is hard to say that a failure was caused specifically because of an oil that was used. It could be a number of things that contributed and then they happen to use a specific oil, bluey, there goes the engine and XBrand was the cause.

I drove my GL1200 over 300 miles or more with a blown headgasket and just kept putting water in it. When if finally went good, I rode it over 30 miles nursing it home. Ride 4 or 5 miles, stop, put in water and let it cool a little. I though the engine was history. I had the headgasket replaced and I asked the wrench how the engine looked, especially after overheating so many times, and he said it looked fine.

I could tell couple more stories, but they relate to cars, but you'd be amazed at the abuse I've put things through and they just kept right on running.

But folks, just make sure you do the right thing and your decision is not blind, but has credence. (not the clearwater revival....I went down Virginia seeking shelter from the storm...oh never mind...)

Kevin I can't say I am specifically talking about you as I don't know you personally at this time. However, I know you are highly respected in the work that you do and do value any and all input. I would like to meet you and learn more of the Victory motor and V-twins in general. I know the dynamics are slightly different on a air cooled v-twin than on a 4, 6 or 8 cyclinder though the principals are the same. I'm looking at having over a 100K in just 4 years or less and want it to last on until I wear everything out. I'm not in to waiting for my bike to be in and out of the shop so I hope it will be as dependable as I believe it will be even with miles and age.

I'm not a motorcycle wrench, you are, and sometimes my comments are pointed to stir the pot for good input. In the big picture of things I find that one group will say never, never, never, never, never, use full synthetic. Then another group will swear by it saying they have zillions of miles on it with zero problem. So who is right, the group that has put on the zillion miles and no problems, or they group that had one, two, or twenty incidents out of thousand who did have a problem? It always gets confusing, thus the beloved and trusted oil thread that will sprout up, blossom, and then die away for another day.

If 99 people out of a 100 that used a full synthetic came back and said, don't use such and such, you bet it would never sell. But when 99 out of a hundred uses the full synthetic and says there bike runs better, smoother, shifts cleaner and so on, then I think there is some credence. I use a full synthetic and when I have, my bike runs quieter, shifts smoother and runs more miles before the top end starts to rattle than on the recommended brand oil.

I ride hard and long when I go out and ride and have 39K on the clock. I've used the full synthetic and the victory blend and I just know what the difference is in my bike, I can't speak for anyone else. For me, really the jury is still out as I have switched back and forth, with the full syn winning out most of the time so far.

So in response to your comment back, why does one bike experience the clutch slippage you speak of and works fine when it goes back to the recommended oil, and yet others, to include mine perform better when using the full syn?

We may be on to a thread that will end all oil threads. Arky, you bring up a good point and having worked customer service, and field is irrelavent, I have found the customer will say anything to keep themselves covered. So, to follow through on in whether full synthetic is viable for a motorcycle wet clutch I would have to do my own personal independant test.

I can see this scenario playing out. Motorcycle buddy tells other motorcycle buddy that all he uses is Xbrand full synthetic oil. Other buddy thinks, well since my friend uses I'll use it. So he goes to his Xbrand oil jobber and says "give me 5 quarts of your 10-40 oil." Now, he doesn't specify, nor does he check to see that it is motorcycle oil and he carts it home, changes his oil and then blewy, his clutch is shot. Now he is perplexed and checks and finds out that he should have asked for M/C rated oil but doesn't want to be the laughing stock of his biker buddies. He makes a big tadooo over how Xbrand ruined his motorcycle and had to pay out of his own pocket to get it fixed. Then he swares that he'll never use that junk again.

We all safely assume that we are all intelligent and well versed in motorcycle stuff that we fail to convey, "make sure it is made for a motorcycle." Another case and point is that I bought some high speed antifreeze for my other bike (sorry, that just doesn't sound right when talking of motorcycles, but they are among us) and was told this is the best stuff on the market for ANYTHING. Well, that antifreeze is still sitting on the self as I went home and did extensive research and found that unless the antifreeze is made specifically for Honda and states so, do not use it. The reason? Silica. Most of your automotive antifreeze contains this, more than other, but in a honda, you cannot have it, else it will eat the waterpump bearing in no time. So, with that experience I can see where you can buy Xbrand, unaware of how specific you must be, and have a failure and thus, a myth is born.

So now I can make use of my 5 quarts of full synthetic oil with a clear conscience and thus another oil thread fades off into the archives of the forum world.

sheeesh arky, now why did you go and do that? I'm going send away for my sample kit today and get mine tested.

My dad use to get his oil tested all the time as a trucker and for him it paid dividends, I think this will do the same for my bike and understanding the optimal oci.

Money for the most part is not a factor, wait, I'm not indepenantly wealthy or anything, but money is required for upkeep. So far the Vision has not outpriced me yet. I'm almost ready for new set of tires in about 3 months which is chunk of change as well. Everything seems to work out fine though. I'm looking for the right fit as I don't want to be changing my oil every month as that is the case if I stick to the 2,500 mile rule and the 50/50 blend. I've not tried it since I've got all the miles on it, but in the early days when I was using the 50/50 it would start clacking at or around the 2,500 mile mark. I went to AMSOIL and it seemed it could go 3k to 4k before I heard the clacking in the upper side. Right now I think I've got about 3k on the AMSOIL and all seems to be very well, so it might be a wear-in matter with 39k on the clock.

Around 30k when I had the 50/50 I actually thought it was smoking. I had just got back off my trip from Texas running 3,600 on that trip between oil changes. It was also ticking making me think I did something to it. I put back in the AMSOIL and all seems to be running well and I've not seen anything that I thought was oil smoke coming out of the exhaust. I think my last change was around 35K and I think I'm due again, I got to get out my book and check. The engine is still running quiet and all seems to be well. That is why I want to get it tested just to see what is going on. It actually feels like the bike is running stronger with the more miles on it then when it was young, but maybe that is because I'm an old geezer at 50 now also.

I've yet to change my belt so I guess I'm just a deesasster waiting to happen, but I think I'll do that when I pull the rear tire to get it changed. I find the Vision a very easy bike to maintain. One more highjack, I still need to change the fork oil being that it has 25K on it. 15K is the right interval, as I'm getting that slight dive that I despise.

Arkainzeye - 2009-04-20 11:33 AM VARYDER, not to change the subject. but how many miles do you get on a set of tires. i only have 6400 miles on my scooter and im just wondering what i should expect.

E3 have been good to me and I've been bad to them. I stretched 16k on my very first one, 14k on my second, and I've to about 9k on this one and it is looking good. It may be argued that I probably should have changed my first one 14k as well as that is when I noticed it need to be changed having been at the majority of the wear bars. By the time I ordered the tire and then have it changed another month rolled by and I average about 2,500 a month. I pushed the first front to about 23,000 and it was ready to change around 21,000, which to me was a little disappointing. This front is has about 16k on it and my wife told me it is ready to change. She doesn't realized that motorcycle tires doesn't have the teeth a car tire has so it looks slick to her. But I looked at it close and I would say I've got a good 5k left on it. So It looks like it'll be two tires at one time the next go round. I keep about 41psi in both front and rear. I will note also, I took the interstate all the way to texas and back and the tire run "flat" on me, that is the tread wore in the middle since I wasn't doing the twisties as much. I think that helped the need to change at 14k.

In summary:

• 15k rear
• 20k front
• 40psi f/r

VisionTex - 2009-04-20 9:41 PM Isn't it amazing how slick oil really is!!!! It just slid right out of this thread.....yea!!

Yeah, but, what kind of transmission fluid should I use? I heard thin weight is the best. It  makes no differential to me.

wonder how many are lurking trying to decide exactly what to do next? Should it be 50/50, full synthectic, which brand, is it made for a motorcycle, will I blow my clutch, suck a valve, throw a rod. You know, that stuff happens everyday, so beware of what you do and what you use.

For the most part, riders that I know really pay attention to everything, to a fault. Those that don't often suffer failure one way or another. I know we all live and learn, but riding a motorcycle requires you to pay attention to everything. Our lives literally depend on the machine we ride and when we ALLOW failure because we do not pay attention to the least little detail, then it can cost us, not only in money but in life.

So to the ones who are trying to figure all this stuff out, please stick to the Victory 50/50, let your dealer do the service, on time, everytime, and do your checks before and after you ride. The season is starting up now and the bikes are out like mayflies, I'm just wondering if all of us will make it through the season to look back with great and fond memories.

great post ^^^^^^^^

ditto

DOUBLE POST. Well, let's make use of it:

Did you hear about the biker who....?

Never mind.......

Take a safety course too, at least every two years or more. Some I see out there I recommend every six months....

The oil thread goes on.

I like these in a way because it really makes a person sit back and wonder. I take the credibility of any wrench in the business for any length of time, and I take the credibility of time. There has only ever in my life time that I've headed the words on not using a particular product; one is slick50 and two, the old parafin based quakerstate. My dad had trouble when he was using slick50 in his pickup truck and in his rig, and I know first hand the trouble parafin quakerstate oil caused when switching to a detergent based oil.

Never in my life have I come first hand to a person that has used AMSOIL for the application, this case motorcycles or any other motorcycle type oil that had a failure. In fact, as we can see here, many folk say they have used X-brand, Amsoil, Vic, Tech, etc, with no problems. Now, I wouldn't go to QuickyStop and get QuickyStop motorcycle oil for my bike, but I would use any reputable oil off the self made for a motorcycle if I was in a pinch. Deciding to use AMSOIL took a little time to give into as I know and frequenty associate with some jobbers. I've read, took a long hard thought to it and said, Ok. When I first got the bike, I said, no thank you. After talking with my dealer and tech they told me they had plenty of customers that use AMSOIL and have not known any to have a problem using it. They gave the humma, humma about Vic oil was made for it and if something went wrong, Polaris might hassle me over the use of AMSOIL but it was an acceptable oil to use.

So, in the big scheme of things, and in respect to everyone here, the jury is still way out on this one. If Kevin was my regular wrench I would heed to his very words and never put another drop of AMSOIL in there. I think there are forces at work that the full story is not revealed when a failure occurs. It is an all too familiar story when something breaks due to human fault, the first reaction is "I didn't do anything to cause this, it must be the fault of what I was using." That is to itself human nature, "not my fault..."

The bottom line, in things mechnical anything can be a cause of another, and things like oils can compound the issue as well. We also can do something that can cause X problem by using something, even unintential or expecting good results that didn't pan out. So on the reputation, I believe what a tech would say, Kevin since you are speaking up, I know that what you say is based off the facts of your experience, no doubting there. You even give way to acknowledging that Barnett clutch says that any JASO oil is acceptable, and that you do not know why one fails and another doesn't, citing driving habits.

When looking at it from whole view point, I find no real evidence that a full synthetic motorcycle oil from a reputable brand name will harm our vics. Now, if you are racer, ect, perhaps a different application is required, to include a better clutch material. So there are other dynamics that have to be applied and all has to be considered when making assesments. I feel I ride aggressive, but to what? You and I Kevin, may ride together one day, and I hope you'll do my cams when I'm ready, but when we ride you might think I ride sissy. So, in that, AMSOIL would work fine for me the life of the bike and for you, could cause early clutch failure, and both be documented. Vic oil may be superior in that application and can be respected

The above can be found with any simple search for SAE standards. I had to post the above paragraph so people would quit typing "W40"  There is no such thing.  We have "Multi-Grade" oils to handle broad riding ranges.  When the oil hits that 210 degree F range, it starts to act like a thicker oil.  I run the 20W-40 Vic oil only cause i work at the dealership and i change oil every 2,500 miles.  If i was going to try and extend my oil changes, then i would probably use some other type of quality 20W-50 oil like i have in my previous bikes.  Resisting wear and proper lubrication for fuel economy and proper transfer of heat is what the mfg is going for.  Thicker oils dont transfer heat as readily but will keep things quiet.  This is the reason on vehicles with seperate transmissions you will find SAE 85 and SAE 90 oils used.  They resist shearing due to the high pressure betweent he gear teeth and help reduce gear noise.  I know everyone will run the oil they feel comfortable with.  I usually run the OEM spec stuff tilll i am comfortable with the vehicle and then i may start to experiment.  I know the dealer i work for will and can order Amsoil if the customer wants it.  I have also changed Visions and other Vics over to Amsoil and there is no problem i have run across so far in the last 1 1/2 years.

the mainstay of motorcycle forums, oil threads....

let's pull the plug and let this one drain out....

grunt, plob, glug, glug, glug, glug.... maaaannnn where's my plug.....?

There you go bringing Molly into this, poor girl, she got pick in on in school for not being too slick, now she's getting it for being slick, sheeesh. I thought we beat this horse to death already, and without mentioning any names, don't let the other one bother you with any comments, it will never die. This is destined to be the number two post behind the motivational posters.

I see eagle has brought out a factor that has been loosley alluded too; additives. So it is not the oil, dino, half, or full syn, or even the brand, it is the additional additives. In playing detective one must find all variables to make an education assumption and not go with a blanket assessment. A common thread is that if you use Victory oil it is the recommended oil, just as ford, chevy, harley, honda, etc. But the book says to use X type with an approved rating. If you use X with the approved rating, then where is the argument? If you use X and there is a varible outside the parameters along with x and something goes wrong, x is not the blame, the unacceptable variable is.

I expect the Victory wrench to say use Victory, why? It takes out the variables and it has proven to be such, I cannot and will not dispute that. However, time also proves to me if someone uses a full syn for the life of the bike, to 200K without problems, then I have a tendency to follow along with that, having proven itself. I've even talked with other reputable wrenches as well as the one I'll take my bike to, and they all say the same thing, it is okay to use full synthetic. One thing that these wrenches will not do is get tied up in forum debates as it leads to pure 100% fruitless banter. The novice reader right now is so confused that he'll probably sell his or her bike and say forget it because if he/she does the slightest thing wrong he/she'll have to pay out the nose.

I respect my tech when he laughs when I say, "I read such and such on the forum." as 90% of the time he can give me hard evidence that what was said is a crock and has no value. None of these posts has swayed me to drain my oil and put something else than what I've got waiting in the wing to put in there as I'm not convinced that my bike will go teets up and die if I do. I've ran nearly 40K at this time mostly with the dreaded and evil AMSOIL and I have zero clutch slippage, well, beyond the normal friction zone.

I was told if something breaks on my bike, as long as I have oil in the bike it will still be covered. Sure, clutches are wear items and it is one of those things that a burden of proof has to be on the user to say that nothing they did caused the premature failure. And I don't know if there ever has been a clutch changed under warranty, though I'm sure there has been. But who is to say that the rider didn't ride the clutch and cause failure or other blah, blah factors. Sure, I know I've come back around full circle to A) Clutch slips, uses full syn, B) Clutch doesn't slip using 50/50, but I still need to know a lot more, because I use A) Full Syn, clutch does not slip nor does bike chatter, or B) Uses 50/50, clutch doesn't slip and I have chatter, chatter. Which do I want to use today?