Stalling when downshifting
Higgy
Posted 2009-05-18 1:13 PM (#34882)
Subject: Stalling when downshifting


New user

Posts: 3
I have an issue with my 2008 vision stalling upon downshifting. This isn't something that happens all the time, it is sporatic. I'm usually coasting to a stop, pulling in the clutch and shifting down when the rear wheel will lock up and the bike dies. This is pretty scary when you are in heavy traffic with your wife on the back! The dealer keeps blowing me off telling me that there is no recall on the bike and that they want the bike to ride for a week to see if they can get it to do this. This happened about 6 times last summer and has already happened 3 times this summer. I filed a Lemon Law claim on the bike because they had the bike 3 weeks last summer and blew the computer out of it. I have a new 2009 computer mapped to 2008 now and it is still doing it. I have the stage 1 pipes on my bike so I don't know if the computer is mapped properly. This is really pissing me off! The dealer sucks and I'm ready to trade the bike in. I really like it though but I've had enough of the bullshit! Is anyone out there having an issue with stalling upon downshifting? Wouldn't you think that Polaris would know about this stalling issue?
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varyder
Posted 2009-05-18 1:52 PM (#34885 - in reply to #34882)
Subject: RE: Stalling when downshifting


Visionary

Posts: 8144
New Bohemia, VA

Hig, don't feel all alone on this. I had this issue when I first got it in Nov 07. It only got better after tightening the exhaust nuts on the engine, but I had gone through the recall and changed the plugs. It is still prone to do it and I've had the same response as you. I think it only happens to the few here on the forum as if it was prevalent I believe that Victory would address it head on. But since it probably only happening to a few bikes, of which are riders that post here, they are not concerned. I mentioned that it happens to those who post here because it makes it a bigger deal to US but not to  them. I'm on a mission to work through this and believe it is a vacuum leak on the intake side or an exhaust leak somewhere. You will get a zillion responses from creditable sources that will either encourage you to forge ahead or discourage and make you sell the best riding bike on the planet.

I've heard everything from sensors to relays, to circuit breakers to S1L1/L2 pipes, to commanders, etc, etc, etc, and it still exist among those who has had any combination of the above redone. I'm still waiting for the perfect solution, but we are told that doesn't exist either because Victory motors will pop and die at some point without warning. Fortunetly, mine refires and it has become second nature to me whenever it happens. When it happens with the wife unit I tell her that the bike has character and we move on to another subject.

My dealers solution is an upgrade in exhaust, but if it ain't running right stock, why should I spend money and it still don't run right. You'll find S1L1 and S1L2 with the same problem, so I really don't want to hear that I have to spend money to make it run right from the showroom. That alone has turned me completely off from discussing the issue with them, but will mention it from time to time just to hear them tell me to spend money for pretty sound pipes.

Best to you in your pursuit and hope you get absolute total resolution in your stalling problem soon so you do not have to be worried with it any longer. But if you do a search, the predominate subject second only to the oil threads is popping and stalling. 

 

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Higgy
Posted 2009-05-18 2:27 PM (#34887 - in reply to #34885)
Subject: RE: Stalling when downshifting


New user

Posts: 3
Thanks man for letting me know that I'm not the Lone Ranger! I think the issue is only second to the folks that sold me the bike and the run around that they are giving me! Thanks again for your feedback. It is greatly appreciated and my blood pressure is stabilizing now!

Hig
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radioteacher
Posted 2009-05-18 4:00 PM (#34892 - in reply to #34882)
Subject: Re: Stalling when downshifting


Visionary

Posts: 3006
San Antonio, TX
Have another dealer confirm that the following three recalls are done on your 2008 Vision.


3 Record(s) Displayed.
Report Date : May 18, 2009 at 04:57 PM
Search Type : VEHICLE
Make: VICTORY
Model or Model No.: VISION
Model Year: 2008
Make: VICTORY Model: VISION
Model Year: 2008
Manufacturer: POLARIS INDUSTRIES, INC. Mfr's Report Date: OCT 30, 2007
NHTSA CAMPAIGN ID Number: 07V510000
N/A
NHTSA Action Number: N/A
Component: ELECTRICAL SYSTEM:ALTERNATOR/GENERATOR/REGULATOR
Potential Number of Units Affected: 326
Summary:
ON CERTAIN MOTORCYCLES, THE VOLTAGE REGULATOR/RECTIFIER ASSEMBLY MAY HAVE AN OVERCHARGING CONDITION. AN OVERCHARGING SITUATION IN CONJUNCTION WITH THE LOOSE BATTERY CONNECTION COULD CAUSE A STALLING CONDITION.
Consequence:
AN UNEXPECTED LOSS OF ENGINE POWER COULD CAUSE A LOSS OF CONTROL OF THE MOTORCYCLE INCREASING THE RISK OF A CRASH.
Remedy:
DEALERS WILL REPLACE THE VOLTAGE REGULATOR/RECTIFIER AND INSPECT BOTH BATTERY CABLES FOR TIGHTNESS. THE RECALL BEGAN ON NOVEMBER 5, 2007. OWNERS MAY CONTACT POLARIS/VICTORY AT 1-888-704-5290.
Notes:
POLARIS/VICTORY RECALL NO. V-07-01. CUSTOMERS MAY ALSO CONTACT THE NATIONAL HIGHWAY TRAFFIC SAFETY ADMINISTRATION¿S VEHICLE SAFETY HOTLINE AT 1-888-327-4236 (TTY 1-800-424-9153), OR GO TO HTTP://WWW.SAFERCAR.GOV.

rule
Make: VICTORY Model: VISION
Model Year: 2008
Manufacturer: POLARIS INDUSTRIES, INC. Mfr's Report Date: MAR 14, 2008
NHTSA CAMPAIGN ID Number: 08V131000
N/A
NHTSA Action Number: N/A
Component: ELECTRICAL SYSTEM:IGNITION:SWITCH
Potential Number of Units Affected: 1585
Summary:
POLARIS IS RECALLING 1,585 MY 2008 VICTORY VISION MOTORCYCLES. THE ELECTRICAL CONTACT PLATE ON THE IGNITION SWITCH BASE MAY NOT BE PROPERLY SECURED TO THE IGNITION SWITCH BODY, WHICH CAN CAUSE AN UNEXPECTED LOSS OF ELECTRICAL POWER TO THE VEHICLE.
Consequence:
A LOSS OF ELECTRICAL POWER COULD CAUSE THE VEHICLE TO STALL, INCREASING THE RISK OF A LOSS OF CONTROL AND A VEHICLE CRASH.
Remedy:
DEALERS WILL FULLY SECURE THE IGNITION SWITCH BASE TO THE SWITCH BODY. THE RECALL BEGAN ON APRIL 2, 2008. OWNERS MAY CONTACT POLARIS/VICTORY AT 1-888-704-5290.
Notes:
POLARIS/VICTORY RECALL NO. V-08-01. CUSTOMERS MAY ALSO CONTACT THE NATIONAL HIGHWAY TRAFFIC SAFETY ADMINISTRATION'S VEHICLE SAFETY HOTLINE AT 1-888-327-4236 (TTY 1-800-424-9153), OR GO TO HTTP://WWW.SAFERCAR.GOV.

rule
Make: VICTORY Model: VISION
Model Year: 2008
Manufacturer: POLARIS INDUSTRIES, INC. Mfr's Report Date: SEP 02, 2008
NHTSA CAMPAIGN ID Number: 08V446000
N/A
NHTSA Action Number: N/A
Component: ELECTRICAL SYSTEM:FUSES AND CIRCUIT BREAKERS
Potential Number of Units Affected: 2444
Summary:
POLARIS IS RECALLING 2,444 MY 2008 VICTORY VISION MOTORCYCLES. THE TERMINAL NUTS THAT SECURE THE MAIN POWER SUPPLY WIRES COULD BE LOOSE AT THE CIRCUIT BREAKER, WHICH CAN CAUSE AN UNEXPECTED LOSS OF ELECTRICAL POWER TO THE MOTORCYCLE. ALSO THE CURRENT FUEL IGNITION MAP PRE-PROGRAMMED INTO THE ELECTRONIC CONTROL MODULE (ECM) CAN CAUSE ENGINE STALLING.
Consequence:
EITHER CONDITION COULD CAUSE THE ENGINE TO STALL, INCREASING THE RISK OF A LOSS OF CONTROL AND A CRASH.
Remedy:
DEALERS WILL INSPECT AND TIGHTEN THE CIRCUIT BREAKER TERMINAL NUTS AND RE-PROGRAM THE ECM FREE OF CHARGE. THE RECALL BEGAN ON SEPTEMBER 23, 2008. OWNERS MAY CONTACT POLARIS/VICTORY AT 1-888-704-5290.
Notes:
POLARIS/VICTORY RECALL NO. V-08-03. CUSTOMERS MAY ALSO CONTACT THE NATIONAL HIGHWAY TRAFFIC SAFETY ADMINISTRATION'S VEHICLE SAFETY HOTLINE AT 1-888-327-4236 (TTY 1-800-424-9153), OR GO TO HTTP://WWW.SAFERCAR.GOV.

rule
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formergwhd
Posted 2009-05-18 4:47 PM (#34898 - in reply to #34892)
Subject: Re: Stalling when downshifting


Puddle Jumper

Posts: 7
Add another to the count, my 08 has stalled several times and seems to happen the most when I go to stop after a long run at fairly steady speeds. After reading several post suggesting that the exhaust may be leaking I have tightened evrything twice and it has done it again.


Tom
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norcan
Posted 2009-05-18 5:48 PM (#34900 - in reply to #34882)
Subject: Re: Stalling when downshifting


Cruiser

Posts: 208
Edmonton Alberta, Canada
Well bought mine in june last year. It stalled a couple of times. Last October took it in for a service and a few waranty issues, they perforemed all the recalls, as well as change the plugs. I rode maybe two miles after that. This spring done a few rides, no more that 500 miles. My Vision has stalled at least a dozen times. And the exhaust (sl2) pops worse than ever. We have the demo truck here next weekend and I plan on going on a couple of demo rides, but will also quiz the service manager while I am there. This spring I was going through a construction site and there were many very large pot holes. Well I hit one at maybe 15 miles per hour, the front bottoemed out and the bike stalled dead. A little scary, still had the witer wobblies. and traffic was backed up. thought i was going to get rear ended. I will report back next week after the demo ride.
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Arkainzeye
Posted 2009-05-18 5:58 PM (#34901 - in reply to #34900)
Subject: Re: Stalling when downshifting


Visionary

Posts: 3773
Pittsburgh, PA
since i have had the s1l1 installed and them Remapped my bike surges and pops and today it felt like it was going to stall 3 times.. it never did this UNTIL the s1l1 was installed..
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varyder
Posted 2009-05-18 7:38 PM (#34905 - in reply to #34901)
Subject: Re: Stalling when downshifting


Visionary

Posts: 8144
New Bohemia, VA

Okay, some of us have been around this block too many times and frankly it is getting tiresome. I'm truly a shade tree mechanic as I have no garage to rip apart my bike and scatter parts about so I have to look at time and weather before I do anything, thus the lack of getting down to business. As I comtemplate the stalling and popping issue one thing keeps coming to mind; a leak, either exhaust or intake or both or even vacuum. So I dig out my manual and all the symptom we describe has one common thread as a potential problem to popping or stalling; a leak, either intake or exhaust or both or vacuum. Yet, we get on here and talk about EFI, mapping issues, pipes, etc. and many still have this problem. I look at the huge airbox and the things that are mounted to it and how it mounts to the engine, and vacuum hoses. But I have never heard anyone say they've done a shake down of this area, the airbox and intake.

So, who has looked into this and found any leaks or not? I think this is where the problems could potentially be and yet we look past it. I know I did with the exhaust and I had a major drop in the problem when I put a wrench to it. But I've not dug into the intake or vacuum lines. Could one of you expert wrenches that knows your stuff give me a little feedback on this as I know there is an absolute solution to this problem that will fix it once and for all. I cannot buy the fact that Victory motors just do it, or it is lean/rich mixture or EPA influence over the EFI deal, and all that other stuff. I know that Victory produces a motor that will run like a scolded dog and would never say this popping and stalling is good enough. It has to be some leak somewhere that can be remedied. Anyone?



Edited by varyder 2009-05-18 7:42 PM
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sonicbluerider
Posted 2009-05-18 8:13 PM (#34913 - in reply to #34882)
Subject: Re: Stalling when downshifting


Tourer

Posts: 576
, IA
never a problem
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pollolittle
Posted 2009-05-19 7:48 AM (#34961 - in reply to #34882)
Subject: Re: Stalling when downshifting


Visionary

Posts: 2027
Brighton, TN
Well, my dear VAnumbbuttfeetonthehandlebarsryder, higgy, and others. I had this exact same problem. Wound up being the key switch. Yes, the key switch on the dash, not the trunk or the side bags. Now, as I know of right now all of the problems you folks speak of could also be due to a faulty key switch, I know cause it happened to me.

Original bike was a street version, which I love, but I added the tour pak. When I did the tour pak came with all new keys, tumblers and ignition switch. I thought what a deal, I don't have to purchase new key sets to match. When they replaced them, I asked to keep the locks and switch. I leave after they finish, less than a week, I start having erractic problems with my bike. Rolling into work at about 45, bike stalls and rear end locks up. Pull the clutch, and check dash, drop the clutch and it restarts, continue on no more problems then. (FWIW, the bike can be push started apparently.) Next day or so, rolling down the freeway at 70mph, the bike starts to surge, radio goes blank, pull the clutch and idle around 1500-1800, unable to get it to quit acting strange, pull off freeway and kill bike. Had to cycle the switch to get it to start. Finally, started and rode the rest of the way to work, no more problems, except for a few pops or backfires.

Drove it straight over after work to the dealer, they keep it and say nothing is wrong with the bike, everything checks out fine. Of course I disagree, but they are unable to figure it out. I take it back and on the way home, more problems. Calll them and tell them it is still acting up and I go back to letting them know that the last thing we did to the bike was the key switches. They ask me if I still have my ignition switch, I sure do. Bring that back in, they got a quasi approval to do the work, replaced just the ignition switch for me to try out for a few days. I went for over a month with no issues, at all. Finally went back in and they ordered a new switch and have been ecstatic with the switch ever since.

Just another option, especially given how much that one little switch affects. Don't know of any way to test it, because it will be a minute short or ground, just enough to give you problems.
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varyder
Posted 2009-05-19 9:10 AM (#34964 - in reply to #34961)
Subject: Re: Stalling when downshifting


Visionary

Posts: 8144
New Bohemia, VA

Appreciate the info ChickenMan from Tennersee, I'm going to look into that. I'm curious though as to whether there are many bikes with the same symptom yet different causes. Mine will die sometimes before I even move, it will flatten out (my term) as I roll on the throttle and ease the clutch out and it dies. Or as other have said, I'll pull the clutch in and it immediately dies. Then there are other times that I'll roll on the throttle from a stop and it will flatten out, stay running, cough and then run like a scolded dog. There are other times I'll have to sit there revving it to get it to run up and not shut off so I can take off. This is not every single time I stop, but it will do it several times in a city and traffic sitting environment. When rolling it runs and performs as it should. There is though a rare moment when it will pause for a nano second, no spudder or anything, just a flat spot.

I'm figuring that if it is in the switch or other electronic gizmo it would die and not start, or die while underway, or sputter more under way. But that flat spot I've mentioned has only happened about 4 times in 42,000 miles. I know of two times it happen on local long trips, though I can't remember when or where. But I distinctly remember it doing it on my way to Texas, in fact, it happened in Texas for that nanosecond, and then it just did it Saturday on the RedWing19 ride heading north on I-81. To me these kind of things will do it and mean business, like shut off and you have to refire while screaming 70mph down the interstate, it has not done that. My 22 year old GoldWing did it because the switch was worn out, and would do it if I hit bumps or something. I've hit some rough road with the Vision and it has been steady as she goes. It is always in that backdown, or takeoff range that it occurs making me believe it is atmospheric. If you think otherwise I will certainly look into replacing the switch, even on my own dime.

The Vision has enough character without it fartin' and belching all the time.

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pollolittle
Posted 2009-05-19 1:25 PM (#34986 - in reply to #34882)
Subject: Re: Stalling when downshifting


Visionary

Posts: 2027
Brighton, TN
Mine is no more than an attempt to throw something else out for you to think about. As is known throughout electronics and manufacturing, man is involved. I have had many pieces of electronic gizmos to fail or degrade enough to cause havoc in the main system. Naval Weapon System full of electronic gizmos, is my basis. It could be just enough out of tolerance to cause the bike to stumble at the cylinder or reduce power to the electronics for it to flatten out, die,etc. I would see if you couldn't get the dealer to swap you one.

I could never re-create the experience on demand. It was way intermittent, had we not just changed out all the locks, I'm sure I would be dealing with the same problems. Kinda like my IAC valve. No problem, no way to fix.

Wired up my GPS, thought I had the positive cable back down tight, cranked it and started backing out, gave a light twist of the throttle and it died, totally. No power, nada, nothing, kinda like being married to some. Well, the last thing was that stinkin' battery. Slide down and sure enough I still got quite a ways to go.

I got fortunate enough that it happened early on after the switch change over. New switch, no problems. Maybe your dealer has one from someone putting the trunk on and didn't take it with them. I'm sure someone has this. Now that I think about it. I have my original good switch from my street version, in a box, you interested.
Seems your dealer would be willing to trade that out to see if it made a difference.
Let me know.

Looks like there are a few fellas on here who could benefit from this troubleshooting tool.
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varyder
Posted 2009-05-19 2:17 PM (#34999 - in reply to #34986)
Subject: Re: Stalling when downshifting


Visionary

Posts: 8144
New Bohemia, VA

I hate it when I come back to reality.

Looking at the front tire today and it is shot, so I'll be bringing the Vision into the hanger and pulling everything apart soon. I'm going to check out my leak theory and see how it rides after that. If I still got the issue than I'll move into the gizmo area to see what happens. Mine only had the map and switch retainer recall, no circuit breaker per dealer. Thanks Po.

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Lone Ranger
Posted 2009-05-19 3:10 PM (#35004 - in reply to #34887)
Subject: RE: Stalling when downshifting


Tourer

Posts: 447
Cleveland, GA

Higgy - 2009-05-18 2:27 PM

Thanks man for letting me know that I'm not the Lone Ranger!

Hey!  I resemble that remark! :-)

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kevinx
Posted 2009-05-19 6:09 PM (#35011 - in reply to #34882)
Subject: Re: Stalling when downshifting


Visionary

Posts: 1340
Gainesville Fl Home of the Gators
A few cents in the fountain...........
The ignition switch was a problem found pretty early on. Turned out to be the the bottom electrical part would separate from the main body. The recall had us sliding a rubber wedge between the base, and the back bone. Crude, but effective

Most of the popping is the result of the transfer from open throttle to Idle Air Control Valve[IAC] A couple of things happen here when the throttle is closed to closed, but not quite there. First the injector will cycle between off, and on. Second is the IAC acts like a sudden vacuum link that appears at almost zero throttle, and disappears when the throttle opens a little. Add these two things together, and you have a perfect recipe for an exhaust pop. I am pretty sure that this annoying issue could be removed with mapping. I rode a Buell 1025R last year, and it had the same annoying, popping traits. Last weekend I rode the new Buell 1025CR, and it was all gone. The result of an intense re-engineering of the maps by the MoCo. If they can do it then Vic damn sure should be able to.

Almost done......

I BELIEVE that the bulk of the stalling is caused by the same thing that causes the popping, but is intensified by either the rider, or the adaptive logic in the ECM. NO I AM NOT blaming the rider. I'm just saying that the way some people ride may aggravate the condition. Then again it could be coming from a slow acting IAC not opening up quick enough to catch the bike with the injectors shut down on decell.

I do KNOW that on bikes that I have done at least a VFC, and intake on the jerky roll down, and stalling are GONE. The VFC for the vision has a built in fuel on decell that keeps the injectors ticking at the crucial almost closed throttle point. The bikes don't have the free fall feeling, and throttle take up is much improved. All that said there most likely will still be some popping, but not as bad
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pollolittle
Posted 2009-05-19 10:24 PM (#35026 - in reply to #34882)
Subject: Re: Stalling when downshifting


Visionary

Posts: 2027
Brighton, TN
Kevinx, you are right about that and the recall. Unfortunately, I am almost positive I had that done, I remember the techs installing it under my original switch and then under the other two. Still it acted somewhat similar to their problems!

? for you Kevinx, with the IAC valve, I disassembled it down to the valve, and cycled it with the ignition and cranking etc. Watching the plunger, it almost seemed Jerky, not smooth. I sprayed a lot of carburetor cleaner underneath where the shaft of the plunger is at and it seemed to smooth out a little bit. I have to wait until it gets cold again to try out my madness of cleaning to see if it cured my hard starting problem. Now that its warmer it fires right up. I was wondering, did the cleaning fix my problem and/or would it fix theirs or replace it?
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pollolittle
Posted 2009-05-19 10:28 PM (#35028 - in reply to #34882)
Subject: Re: Stalling when downshifting


Visionary

Posts: 2027
Brighton, TN
Varyder in addition to what KevinX is speaking of with the slow response of the IAC. Mine just seemed notchy or jerky. It is easy to pull and get a look at without major disassembly. You might give it a try. I agree with his slow IAC valve theorem. I just have had no way to prove it and make it repeatable. I had the assembly in my hand and tried varying degrees of "finger valve" to see if I could get the bike to repeat, but no luck. If you put cane syrup on your finger while doing this does it make a better seal, since it is quite thick?
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mgoblue
Posted 2009-05-23 2:49 AM (#35203 - in reply to #34882)
Subject: RE: Stalling when downshifting


Cruiser

Posts: 177
You guys are not alone with the stalling. i have the Ness "big honkers" on my 2008 street. bought the bike in 08/2008 the dealer is no longer a "VICTORY" dealer, the second one i've lost since buying my 2005 kingpin. The one dealer i have in a 60 mile radius tells me there's nothing wrong. the original dealer i bought it from claim they did the recall on the loose nut on the starter? i don't know it really pisses me off to. very unnerving feeling when your bike cuts out with you and your wife on it. really i've had about all i can stomach with victory. the bikes ride awesome with a boatload of power but the lack of dealers is really a pain. if it wasn't for the fact that i just bought the bike i would probably jump ship and join all my buddies on there harley's.
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Arkainzeye
Posted 2009-05-24 7:20 AM (#35261 - in reply to #34882)
Subject: Re: Stalling when downshifting


Visionary

Posts: 3773
Pittsburgh, PA
i dont know if this means anything at all. but since the install and mapping of my S1L1. cold starts where i let the bike idle for 30 seconds and then ride off (SLOW RIDE) the bike jerks like its not getting enough fuel. but once the bike is warm it stops. it reminds me of my 2002 kawasaki vn800 when it was stock and running extremely Lean. it would "sneeze" and you would have to run the bike with the Chock on until it was warmed up, then back off the chock. that was, Until i rejetted the carb.. So it makes sense to what Kev said.. that being he does see them problems after the install of a VFC....
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Visioneer
Posted 2009-05-29 7:12 AM (#35571 - in reply to #34882)
Subject: Re: Stalling when downshifting


Cruiser

Posts: 53
Ann Arbor, MI
I've posted several times previously about this stalling problem so checking my posts will give you what I know about the issue. My bike seemed to stall about once every 500 miles. I had all the different recalls done but the bike always felt like it was leaned out when it died. Last fall I had it remapped with an upgraded program for the S1L1 without doing anything else to the bike. I could feel an immediate difference in how the engine sounded and felt upon deceleration and the bike has not stalled since. I ride a lot more assuredly now that I don't feel it'll stall.
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ScoreBo
Posted 2009-05-29 1:47 PM (#35580 - in reply to #34882)
Subject: Re: Stalling when downshifting


Iron Butt

Posts: 1117
Northeast Ohio
I have a VFC that Lloyd himself tuned. I have this issue and have had it since day one. It did improve a bit after the ECU reflash recall, but it still isn't perfect. I get pops thru the exhaust and sneezing thru the intake. Can't reproduce it, it happens when it wants to.
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varyder
Posted 2009-05-29 3:02 PM (#35582 - in reply to #35580)
Subject: Re: Stalling when downshifting


Visionary

Posts: 8144
New Bohemia, VA

I had a long coversation with the tech at the dealer and he says ALL Victory '08 do does the pop, as well as Harley's, etc, because of the EPA forcing them to lean out the mixture. So it is blowing my theory out of the water, but my question is, not everyone claims there's does it, or do you 08er's? The tech says this is across the board for the '08 and he says his coversations with Vic resolves absolutely nothing. He is also the second person to say he thinks in is in the O2 sensors. I'm still going to shake mine down and eliminate any exhaust leak and work any issues from there. I still have a few weeks to go before I start pulling it apart.

I'm having my rear pulley supermaxed and I've decided to keep the E3's this time and not go darkside. I'm going to take my original belt and have it tested to see how many pounds it will take to break. If I had the money, I'd buy a new one and test it for break strength also. My guess is there would be very little difference. Sorry, this is a stalling threard.

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VisionTex
Posted 2009-05-29 4:26 PM (#35591 - in reply to #35582)
Subject: Re: Stalling when downshifting


Visionary

Posts: 1484
LaPorte,Tx.
Your probably right, this thread is stalling. But, there has been good information and hopefully some folks will pick up on something, or like you did talk to a tech that knows something. My friend has an 07 Ultra and that bike was the same way until they adjusted it and threw a bunch of fuel to it. Why are you having the pulley Supermaxed, not to change the subject?
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norcan
Posted 2009-05-29 6:37 PM (#35598 - in reply to #34882)
Subject: Re: Stalling when downshifting


Cruiser

Posts: 208
Edmonton Alberta, Canada
Well I did the recalls, reprogram thing, was stuck out in the boonies and bought gas from a different company, well all has since disappeared. I would only fill with Shell, however they have gone to this nitrogen enriched fuel that is supposed clean gunk much better. My changing brands have cured all my problems. Some times the simplisdt thing work. I would rather be out riding than trying to recreate the wheel. just my opinion!
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wroman
Posted 2009-05-30 4:33 AM (#35634 - in reply to #34882)
Subject: Re: Stalling when downshifting


Tourer

Posts: 432
Gettysburg, 2008 Tour Premium
Just want to add a couple of idea's that may or may not be aplicable. Do you use the kill switch on the handlebar to shut off the bike? On my previous bike (Harley) with a Thundermax ECU would have fits when operated this way. Seems the computor would come up with adaptive solutions the the 'stalling' and do some wierd stuff. Also on a previous BMW the kill switch would acually develop carbon traces from being operated as a turn off device and would cause stalling. Dont know if these are the cause but food for thought.
Walt
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wroman
Posted 2009-05-30 4:36 AM (#35635 - in reply to #34882)
Subject: Re: Stalling when downshifting


Tourer

Posts: 432
Gettysburg, 2008 Tour Premium
Oh the kill swith on the BMW was sort of self cleaning and could be made right again by working back and forth a bunch when bike turned off.
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mgoblue
Posted 2009-06-07 5:10 AM (#36178 - in reply to #34882)
Subject: Re: Stalling when downshifting


Cruiser

Posts: 177
Just went to the dealer in Lansing and they claim there's nothing wrong. When i was getting off the freeway and pulled the clutch in to shift to 5th it stalled once again. This is a really frustrating issue for me and it should be for all of us, one of these times someone is going to get killed and Victory will have to answer for it then. Is it just the 2008's? The dealer in Lansing says they have had only one other complaint and that it was one of the early run 2008's. One other thing that blew me away was that i have a tip on the pipe "blueing" and they said they would need to keep the bike for at least a week. FOR A TIP, ARE YOU KIDDING ME? It's june. order a new one then call me when it comes in. The guy's quick fix was to give me Gattlin' Gun tips for there cost. Anyway if anyone has any luck or more info on the stalling that would be great. THANKS...
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varyder
Posted 2009-06-07 6:21 AM (#36181 - in reply to #36178)
Subject: Re: Stalling when downshifting


Visionary

Posts: 8144
New Bohemia, VA
mgoblue, Your frustration is my frustration. I'm days away of pulling the bike into the hanger and taking off the exhaust when I do the belt and tires. I'm going to replace all the gaskets and check around the intake as well. The symptoms are very relevant to a leak in the intake (vacuum) or exhaust, yet all the 'perts say it is entirely electronic with the mapping of the EFI and O2 sensors causing a sudden lean mixture that kills the bike, or something like that.

I say that may be true with some bikes, and might be with mine, but I want to eliminate the leaks before going anywhere else. Yes, I have found leaks and when addressed dramatically improves the bikes performance and nearly eliminates the pop or stall issue. If mine is both, then I would want to make sure all other conditions are right before addressing the electronic gizmo's.

You might ask why doin't I take it to my dealer? Well, I have about 3 maybe 4 times about this very issue, however, they swore they never got it to do it for them. But NOW, they are telling me ALL '08's do it including the other models and polaris has no fix for it. Hmmmmmmm. Anyway, I'm enjoying learning about the Freedom engine and hope to be smart as some of the others on this machine.

Once I'm off the runway and in full flight, the bike is a mean machine, it is just at the touch and go's and at landing or take off do I have to watch for the stall or pop.
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norcan
Posted 2009-06-07 7:10 AM (#36183 - in reply to #34882)
Subject: Re: Stalling when downshifting


Cruiser

Posts: 208
Edmonton Alberta, Canada
A quick update on the gasoline, 10 days and 5 tanks of of non- SHELL gas, only popped once or twice, and not one stall while down shifting! Gatlin tips got polished up last weekend and are still clean and no black soot! For myself this was an easy fix!
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varyder
Posted 2009-06-07 7:43 AM (#36186 - in reply to #36183)
Subject: Re: Stalling when downshifting


Visionary

Posts: 8144
New Bohemia, VA
Thanks norcan for your input. I don't use shell in mine, mostly run sunoco or at the local mom and pop store. But I've never really could tell the difference in how the bike runs on different fuel, however the seafoam gives it a kick. But as KevinX says, it's high, well, not his exact words, on the alcohol.
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cjnoho
Posted 2009-06-07 11:27 AM (#36205 - in reply to #34882)
Subject: Re: Stalling when downshifting


Visionary

Posts: 1324
So Cal
Occasionally I get a pop when upshifting only on light accell. Never on hard accell. Always from the right pipe. I cant help thinking there is a vacuum effect on the crossover pipe to the left exhaust. The gasses on their way to the left pipe are sucked back to the right when the throttle is suddenly released and, pop.
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varyder
Posted 2009-06-07 5:39 PM (#36213 - in reply to #36205)
Subject: Re: Stalling when downshifting


Visionary

Posts: 8144
New Bohemia, VA
cjnoho - 2009-06-07 12:27 PM

Occasionally I get a pop when upshifting only on light accell. Never on hard accell. Always from the right pipe. I cant help thinking there is a vacuum effect on the crossover pipe to the left exhaust. The gasses on their way to the left pipe are sucked back to the right when the throttle is suddenly released and, pop.


CJ I follow you on this, but the question would be if all models of the '08s do as my dealer claims, what would cause it the other models without crossovers? I'm just throwing out thought as I'm trying to pinpoint the real problem, because if it is the electrogizmos then why won't Victory give us a new one?
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rwilly
Posted 2009-06-07 7:50 PM (#36218 - in reply to #36213)
Subject: Re: Stalling when downshifting


Tourer

Posts: 523
seattle, wa
My bike pops out the exhuast as I upshift as well. It also has died on me a few times. It does it alot less now that the temps have gone up, in the winter time it is terrible, which leads me to believe it's a injection problem, maybe they have to run these bikes lean for some reason. I went to the dealer and he shrugged it off saying that they all do this. I also commented on the noise of the valve train, he said Victory engines are known to be louder than most. There has to be an answer.It's 2009 and they can't make a bike that doesn't backfire? We all know how much these bikes cost and they aren't cheap. No other brand has this type of problem that I know of. It will be interesting to see if there are any changes to the 2010s.
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Mudge
Posted 2009-06-07 8:46 PM (#36219 - in reply to #34882)
Subject: Re: Stalling when downshifting


Tourer

Posts: 354
20 miles west of Chicago.
Exhaust tips bluing? That much heat all the way to the end of the pipe. I'd suspect a way lean mixture.
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VisionTex
Posted 2009-06-07 10:00 PM (#36226 - in reply to #36178)
Subject: Re: Stalling when downshifting


Visionary

Posts: 1484
LaPorte,Tx.
mgoblue - 2009-06-07 4:10 AM

Just went to the dealer in Lansing and they claim there's nothing wrong. When i was getting off the freeway and pulled the clutch in to shift to 5th it stalled once again. This is a really frustrating issue for me and it should be for all of us, one of these times someone is going to get killed and Victory will have to answer for it then. Is it just the 2008's? The dealer in Lansing says they have had only one other complaint and that it was one of the early run 2008's. One other thing that blew me away was that i have a tip on the pipe "blueing" and they said they would need to keep the bike for at least a week. FOR A TIP, ARE YOU KIDDING ME? It's june. order a new one then call me when it comes in. The guy's quick fix was to give me Gattlin' Gun tips for there cost. Anyway if anyone has any luck or more info on the stalling that would be great. THANKS...


mgoblue, on the bluing of the tip, I'm pretty sure your talking about a discoloration of the chrome where the muffler tip meets up to the heat shield. This has been an issue in the past as there is a small amount of exhaust leakage at that seam. It is worse if you have the Stage 1 Level 1, as the opening of the muffler is actually larger than the stock tip opening. The Gatlin Tips do eliminate the discoloration as it is not fitted into the opening of the muffler. If they put on a new stock tip, then have them seal the area around the muffler opening with a high temp sealer.
I can't help you with the stalling as my '08 does not stall. Every once in awhile it will pop on a shift or decel. I did have more popping until I found an exhaust leak on the cross over, tightened the clamp and that pretty much cure the issue. One discussion last year was on riding habits and stalling. Folks that were used to "blipping" the throttle between shifts suffered more from stalls. It has to do with the quick roll off of the throttle and the motor going very lean. Anyway good luck in getting you problems solved.
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mgoblue
Posted 2009-06-07 10:21 PM (#36230 - in reply to #34882)
Subject: Re: Stalling when downshifting


Cruiser

Posts: 177
The blueing on the tip is on the right side only. I have the Big Honkers on mine and they are the second set. The first set, the tabs on the mufflers themselves the one on the left side broke because there was only 3 small tack welds on the bracket that the tips screw onto. Yeah that was nice to see my tip in my mirror bouncing down the road. Anyway about the stalling issue all you guys sound alot more, how sould i say technically advanced than i am. I mean i can change the oil and the general stuff but the finding of air leaks and such, you all sound more like techs with expierance. This is agreat site to have so many theories and expierenced fellow riders out there. My big thing is, man this bike comes off warrenty in sept. and i'm nowwhere near getting this issue resolved with Victory. Just found out that the dealer in Grand Rapids is about to go under also. I live within 15-20 minutes off Lake Michigan so my next closet dealers are Plymoth Ind. which i havn't even been to and Lansing. Thanks to all for the input and if anyone out there get's anywhere with Victory and stalling PLEASE post.
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Visioneer
Posted 2009-06-11 8:35 AM (#36449 - in reply to #34882)
Subject: Re: Stalling when downshifting


Cruiser

Posts: 53
Ann Arbor, MI
mgoblue,
I'm the "one other person" that had Full Throttle in Lansing work on my stalling issue. They were clueless and it was a posting on here that led me to having them reflash mine (again). They had supposedly flashed it before but when I confronted them on the issue it turned out that they didn't have the correct software, program, or something, I forget now. When I installed the gatlin tips on mine I found they had broken one of the bolts when installing the stage 1. The broken bolt allowed leakage causing blueing of that tip. I have not been happy with the work performed there and will be trying the dealer in Belleville next time.
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wroman
Posted 2009-06-11 9:27 AM (#36453 - in reply to #34882)
Subject: Re: Stalling when downshifting


Tourer

Posts: 432
Gettysburg, 2008 Tour Premium
Fot those of you that are resealing the exhaust I would like to pass on a tip. On my last bike (H-D Ultra) I installed a set of Fuel Moto Jackpot mufflers that allowed minimal flow to the left muffler forcing the bike to act more like a 2-1. On decel the it was next to imposible to seal the muffler to crossover. Tried high temp silicone and they recomended copper seal-a-gasket. The Copper was better but not perfect. Harleys run clamps called Torka Clamps and they tighten down real tight but are disposable in that they recomend only using once. I was in the garage one day trying to find a solution to the backfiring when I had an idea. What I thought of is this: exhaust pieces are slip fit, one piece fits inside another. They have to be made so they not only fit once but for future R & R's so they have to allow for corosion, rust etc. What standard clamps do is try and squeeze one pipe small enough to seal against another over the entire width of the clamp. Now follow me on this....a good seal has to only be as wide as it needs to be to form a consistant good seal...1/32 inch should work to prevent leakage. What I did was take a used Torka clamp and moved it half off the muffler tip so half of it was now over the smaller diameter header pipe and tightened it down. It took less torque to secure a good fit and no more backfiring. I have not closely looked at the exhaust on the Vic's and this may be not even aplicable but it looks like they use similar clamps at least on some of the joints.
Walt
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mgoblue
Posted 2009-06-15 2:13 AM (#36719 - in reply to #34882)
Subject: RE: Stalling when downshifting


Cruiser

Posts: 177
these are all great ideas. my problem is why doesn't Vic and there so called network of dealers take care of these STUPID problems. my issue with Vic is that i'm not having major mechanical issue's, just the stupid small one's that they pretend don't happen. are there engineers and tech's not able to resolve these issue's or is Vic just in for the sale???
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OzVision
Posted 2009-06-21 8:45 PM (#37222 - in reply to #34882)
Subject: Re: Stalling when downshifting


Puddle Jumper

Posts: 11
G,day guys

I have bought an 08' Tour and have also found it stalling on decel' approaching lights, etc...there is only about 10 on the road in Australia at the moment so the dealers here are few and far between and we are all on a learning curve, thanks mgoblue, varyder, visiontex, norcam and all the others for all the info on what you have all been doing to rectify this issue. I have run it on nothing but 95+ percent octane since buying it and have changed providers from BP and Caltex all with the same result...still cutting out on decel' when gearing down approaching lights etc.....not all the time, but just enough to keep it interesting....I bought a Victory because Harley's have a crap rep' down under for reliability and was hoping this would be an American bike with a difference!!!! My local dealer is one of only about 6 - 8 in Australia, so other than him the next dealer is 1200klm's away, lucky he's a good operator and keen to work these things out.

Thanks to you yanks for finally building a bike for blokes over 6'2". I look forward to hearing on a solution to stop the cutting out but pretty confident that if you are having it over there and I'm having it over here, fuel mix quality etc won't be the issue. The ingnition switch or some electrical short would be my guess. I am able to pull the clutch in and start it immediately once it's cut out.

Until we are all able to sort it, will just learn to work with it as part of the character of the breed, if we have any break throughs down under will let you know...

Keep on riding...

Swampy.


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