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Cruiser
Posts: 76
| I just got back from a quick ride. During the ride, just before coming to stop I twisted the throttle a bit and the bike cut off. It was sort of like it ran out of fuel but the bike had over 3/4 of a tank. Anyone else experience this? |
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Tourer
Posts: 548
Mount Vernon, WA United States | I've been tracking this "issue" recently as I've seen it mentioned in a few different forums. It seems it "may" be due to the bikes running so lean.
The scenario is usually after a run on the highway, exiting, and doing a brief stop at the end of the exit ramp.... when you attempt to go it stalls. Starts right back up, like nothing happened. Basically the opposite of flooding, it gets fuel starved for a moment. This seems logical, maybe Lloyd can shed some light. |
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Tourer
Posts: 354
20 miles west of Chicago. | Mine's definately running lean, Come onnnnnnnnnnnn Lloyd! |
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Visionary
Posts: 2027
Brighton, TN | Could be the voltage regulator that they put the recall on. |
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Iron Butt
Posts: 904
29 Palms California | voltage regulator seems to be an issue still. I cut out once while rolling to a stop. I quickly went to N and used the starter. I then looked at the voltmeter which jumped from around 12, back to the normal (between 14-15). Since I knew that this was recall, I knew what to look for. As I slow RPM's, occasionally my volts will drop. The vision will cease to run if it drops under 9volts. Easy fix under warrenty. Take care of the issue asap. |
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Visionary
Posts: 8144
New Bohemia, VA | I've experience this several times and have posted asking who has had this happen to them. The dealer is working with Victory on trying to recreate the problem and see if they can fix it. I'm starting to believe it may also be a timing issue because it seems to be retarded (in timing) when this happens during the spell. I've not had it cut off in awhile only because I've learned to compensate during an episode and keep 'er runnin'. I hope they find the fix real soon before I start to holler. |
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Tourer
Posts: 354
20 miles west of Chicago. | Is this happening with the stock ECU flash, Stage 1 flash, or both? Anybody know? Timing may be set differently. |
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Visionary
Posts: 1324
So Cal | I havent had the stall, but did have a battery rundown problem. Seems that keeping the trunk light in the "auto' position is enough to run down the battery. Even after turning the light off, just riding isnt enough to fully charge the battery. Rode 100 mi. and still had a slow crank. Put a battery tender on for 20 hrs. before it was fully charged. Havent had a problem since. Dealer has contacted Victory about a fix for trunk light switch. Will be repaired next service. |
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Visionary
Posts: 8144
New Bohemia, VA | Yeah, I had the trunk light problem too! I'm waiting for Jan 2 when my dealer is back to work and I'm going in for a few warranty issues to include the light. My problem happened in Fla. when we were leaving to come home. The bike had sat for two days with the light on and I was ready to head out and nothing... Jumped it, and rode home without incident. Of course I disassemble the light to make sure nothing else would happen. The trunk light is definitely and after thought. |
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Iron Butt
Posts: 904
29 Palms California | im amazed that some dealers have no idea about this problem. im riding 180 miles today to my REAL dealer, since the one I want to go to is only 70 miles away,but they are clueless. Voltage regulator is the prob. |
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Visionary
Posts: 2027
Brighton, TN | So, Buckeye, your closest dealer who was so tight with you, is now willing to loosen the tight strings and not bother with you. Once again, another reason to go into business. |
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Iron Butt
Posts: 904
29 Palms California | I wish I had the financial resources to open a Victory shop. The area here is primed for a Victory dealership. Palm Springs is a fart in the wind away (no Victory shop), and the Marines on base have to go 32 miles farther than I do to get to a dealer.
(Yucca Valley-east to 29 Palms,,,32 miles) Basically, they don't know what they are missing.
Bad news on the Voltage Regulator....New one installed, didn't fix the problem. Still loosing volts. Tried turning off "trunk" completely...no joy. If I turn everything off, I don't loose all the volts...ie Laser Beam, Heat to seat and hands, and radio. Now my gas guage sticks saying i have use 1/4 tank. Full or empty....If it wasn't for the electrical, i would be in motorcycle bliss. My coastie dealer has trouble shooting calls into Victory...we shall see. While at my dealer, I spoke with a Vision Street rider who was having problems keeping his mono shock filled with air. With it at a total loss of air, the belt guard scrapes, and makes a squeeling sound. The shop is working on that issue. By the way, HAPPY NEW YEAR! you bunch of old buzzards! Anyone else having these issues? |
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Visionary
Posts: 1324
So Cal | My volts drop to just above 12 at idle with a fully charged battery. Jump to above 14 when cruising. Havent had a starting problem since I turned of trunk light. Lower volts at idle seem to be the norm. |
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Cruiser
Posts: 296
Central Florida | Crap! I havent had any problems except transmission whine from day 1, and dent in side bag.
I had the voltage regulator replaced under warranty and NEVER had any of these problems. Mine was a very early Vision maybe one of the first dozen delivered in the country. Mine was delivered Sept 27... Good Luck with the problems guys. I have approx 5500 trouble free miles. |
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Iron Butt
Posts: 810
| Carl,
Another Vision's battery was draining when not turning off the trunk light. The push-button was not engaging to turn off the light when the trunk was closed (like the refrigerator light).
The Vision owner put an adhesive pad under the push-button to reduce the clearance to make the switch work and turn off the light when the trunk is closed.
Tim |
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Tourer
Posts: 548
Mount Vernon, WA United States | I posted this in another thread, but it's worth repeating. I know it's an expense or maybe you can "borrow" a new battery from the dealer, but try a new battery. Like I mentioned elsewhere, I have seem more and more "new" battery "partial" failures in recent years. I think sometimes people use battery tenders to "mask" a problem. I know I did for an entire year on another bike. After the 2nd battery, I mentioned in my other post, I just resigned myself that I needed to have the bike on the battery tender if I wasn't going to ride it for more than a week. Well last year, I decided to try one more new battery (that would be the 3rd). All of a sudden, I can leave it sit for a month and it still starts, just like my other bikes.
I know people with V92C Classic Cruisers that if they don't put the bike on a tender, it won't start after sitting a couple weeks. I also know others, with the same battery, same model/year bike, and like me, can let the bike sit for a month, in winter, and it still starts.
Anyway, don't mean to beat it to death, but I'd be curious to what you find out.
-mkb
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Visionary
Posts: 1484
LaPorte,Tx. | TimS, I looked through my manual last night to see if it mentions the operation of the trunk light. I found no mention. I did notice the light has a switch the has three positions. In one of the positions the light is on, the other two it is off. Can you explain further how this light is suppose to operate. Thanks. |
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Cruiser
Posts: 293
Arkansas | Maybe they wired the switch wrong: position 1-always on; position 2-always off; position 3- turns on when the lid is CLOSED!!! |
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Visionary
Posts: 8144
New Bohemia, VA | From having looked at the light in my truck it seems to be a simple on off type switch, though there are 3 positions. In the center position, mine is off as well as the other "off" position. In the "on" position, it is only on when the push button is extended, meaning that the light is off when the trunk is closed. The switch is a very simple switch and what has happen to mine, it has just come apart. The first time it came apart, the bulb just fell out of its holder and rattle around. The second time, the switch started to coming out of its holder and stopped when the hot contact touch the other the ground, making it "on" even though the truck was closed. When I discovered this by the battery being dead, and I pulled out the light you could see this was the case. I just took the inards out and left it like that until I the dealer opens after the new year, then its warranty time. The construction of the light looks to be no more then slots the contacts slide into with no lock to keep it from vibrating apart. |
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Visionary
Posts: 1324
So Cal | Got the off idle stall today. Only the 2nd time in 1500 mi. Right after an aggressive stop. Gave some throttle and it shut off. Started right up. Wonder if the level 1 download will cure the problem? Heres hoping. |
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Iron Butt
Posts: 904
29 Palms California | I've had them change the voltage reg at the shop. Thats not it. Miles suggest new battery. Seems the cheapest. Since I'm so far away, can you pop down to the dealer and see if they will swap out batteries? Watch the volt meter. If it drops after the new battery, it's something else. I've crapped out 3x's. but not to concerned. I'm just over 2k, what are sitting around for? GIT ER DONE! |
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Visionary
Posts: 8144
New Bohemia, VA | I've post here and on the VMC site concerning my shutting off. After talking with the tech at the dealer and coming to a conclusion from all the replies on the board, I've changed some habits when riding. No more cracking the throttle unless necessary. This seems to be working and the bike idles much better when not doing so. So far, I've ridden about two weeks without the previous symptom. |
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Cruiser
Posts: 76
| I've done the same thing, just stop cracking the throttle and the bike has run flawlessly. |
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Iron Butt
Posts: 904
29 Palms California | not the case. that was how i ran the hd. My cut offs come when going from speed, to a sudden or quick stop. As covered before on this site, changing riding styles does help with amount of times you cut out, but it's not the answer to stopping it from happening. Waiting for word from anyone else who has changed batteries and that was the definate fix. |
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Visionary
Posts: 8144
New Bohemia, VA | BuckEye my voltage will always run over 12 to 15. What should I be looking for on the battery issue? Since I have changed my riding habit, it doesn't pop through the airbox or miss like it was doing. My change was the throttling. I'm with you on gettin' 'er fixed, but it runs fine now. |
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Iron Butt
Posts: 904
29 Palms California | As I understand what a voltage regulator does, is regulate the voltage, which means it should stay just above 14 or in one spot with some sort of regularity. I'm no machanic, but I did have wiring issues (of course) with my 2003 eglide, and once the issue(s) were resolved, I stayed at +/- 14. I had a bad ground connection on the eglide. Then I had a bad wire to my front injector (inside the insulation), then just a bad connection to the battery. As you can see, I had trouble shot thru the wazzu, and ended up brain stroming with a mech to find everything but the front injector wire. It cost me a large amount of money to make these "shop" calls. I'm hoping someone can accually get this fixed due the potentially danger of this issue. I know the advanced electronics and wiring on the Vision tax the battery, which I hope is the problem, just replacing the battery. To date, I had the upgraded Voltage regulator (under warrenty) installed, which unless it is also malfunctioning, is not the problem. I'm waiting to hear if anyone changed to a new battery and shows no voltage drops / fluxuations. Like I said I'm no mechanic, but I understand voltage regulation and that parts job to ensure there is no fluxuation in voltage. If my volts are suppose to drop and rise, I guess I would call it a Variable Voltage something or other. Just saying..anyone replace the battery yet and show no flux in your voltage? |
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Visionary
Posts: 1324
So Cal | Both the Vision and my eglide, at idle, fall between 13-12 volts. Not enough rpm to bring the charging system to 100% output. Off idle and cruising 14v+. Since I turned off the trunk light and fully charged the original Vision battery, no problems. Routinely, at idle, on the Vision, volts are just above 12, still no problem. A fully charged battery is going to require less voltage to maintain at full capacity. Theoreticly the battery is only needed for starting. Once running the generator becomes the main voltage source, the battery becomes just another load on the system. If a battery requires too much voltage to maintain its charge while running it can rob voltage needed to run accessories and engine management. Once running the vehicle should be able to operate without a battery. Unfortunately the regulator needs the reference voltage of the battery to maintain proper generator output. General rule, generator output will rarely go above 2v of measured battery voltage. Quick battery load test-start and shutdown motor 6 times in a row. If starter starts to labor toward the end, battery may need charged or replaced. After starting and stopping 6 time let bike sit for about 10 hrs and try to start. If starter labors battery needs attention. If not, battery is probably okay. Main purpose of the battery, get the motor running. Battery is a storage device, you have to put volts in before you can take volts out. Take out more volts than you put in and battery will eventually go dead. Modern vehicles use milliamps of voltage to maitain memory and such, even when vehicle isnt running and sitting for long periods of time the chemicals in the battery start to separate also. |
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Visionary
Posts: 1484
LaPorte,Tx. | Since I've had the Stage 1 Level 1 installed and when reflashed the throttle response is better, so blip of the throttle is more responsive. Maybe others have noticed this also? As I stated before, when I picked up my Vision at the dealer the battery was dead, when reflashed a couple weeks ago the battery went low again because they had to keep the key on when doing the reflash, did take long either. I think the battery in the Vision maybe a little small in capacity, we will see what the future brings. |
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Iron Butt
Posts: 904
29 Palms California | My Eglide stayed at +/- 14 after all the fixing. All my bikes prior to the Vision, retained the propper voltage, with no voltage fluxuation. No motorized vehicle I've ever owned, when the system is working correctly, has had the voltmeter even move a smidge.
..guess I should ask Vtwin if they will give me a bigger better battery? Do you see were I'm going here? Why should I have to even consider getting a better battery if the one that came with the bike isn't a propper one? I have read on this site, and others, that this voltage issue isn't just mine, since Victory already put out the "upgraded" voltage regulator? I'm still extremely please with the looks and very happy with the performance. The only thing that I have issue with, is the voltage fluxuation, which shouldn't happen. What concerns me even more, is that it will drop so low as to cut the engine off under certain driving situations. I should be able to drive it like I stole it, and not have to worry about cutting out,,,ever. (even though I'm a conservative rider now) Who has the correct answer here? Altering riding style is not an acceptable answer, and is probably the most dangerous thing anyone could say. Anyone know what Victory has to say on the issue? I've only cut out 3x in just over 2k miles. Thats 2x's to many. |
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Visionary
Posts: 8144
New Bohemia, VA | I share my experience and come to the conclusions that I come to in hopes it will help someone else. Coming from a flat four on a Goldwing to a V-Twin I had to learn some basic dynamics. When I first started experiencing the cut-out problems and read of the voltage regulator problem, I took it to the dealer. They went over the bike and I trust them to know what they are doing. Their conclusion was no voltage, charging on regulating problems. I described what I was doing, the cracking throttle thing and rolling the throttle at the light. They reminded me that this is closed loop fuel injection computer controlled system, and did not require the carberated way of doing thing. I even talked to another tech at another dealer and described what happened and what I did and the said the same thing. I realized the rolling on the throttle and cracking the throttle was just a habit and served no good purpose in a computerized fuel injection system, so I stopped a bad habit. Now I can ride it like I stole it without a hitch, so I am satisfied I was creating my own dangerous situation by my habit and changed. If it was to experience the shutting off situation again I will be the first one to take it to the dealer or park it and have them come and get it. I hope this helps. |
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Visionary
Posts: 1324
So Cal | I agree with you buckeye except, 3x is 3 x too many. A lot of new cars, the computer adjusts voltage output to reduce load on the engine.
Just enough to keep things running. I dont think Visions are that advanced. If your voltage is dropping below 12 at any time the bike is running theres a problem. Maybe the updated regulator has a defect, cured one problem but created another, could happen.
In the late 80's early 90's GM had what they called prom season. Many of the new cars were set to run so lean to pass fed emission standards. Caused a lot of drivability problems. A few months later they would release a richer calibration that eliminated most. One of those loop holes that corpate lawyers get payed big bucks to figure out.
I have a feeling Victory assumes that 90% of buyers will spring for stage/level package which Im sure cures most of the drivability problems of the stock setup. Some we are probably not even aware of. |
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Iron Butt
Posts: 904
29 Palms California | Just to clearify, I stopped the "cracking of the throttle", which still shouldn't cause the engine to cut out. (my Eglide had EFI also). With that being said, yes that stopped the cutouts at the lights. Now, if im going up to speed and have to stop more suddenly than normal, I'm looking at serious drops (like I'm cracking the throttle) in voltage and possible stall. It sounds like there is an issue the techs can't figure out. The "step up" voltage reg. might be faulty. I'm O.K. with cruising the way it is now until someone comes up with a REAL answer. |
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Visionary
Posts: 1484
LaPorte,Tx. | Sounds like your working with the techs an I'm sure the problem will be resolved. In an ealier post you commented that your voltage drops to 9v, does that still happen? |
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Visionary
Posts: 1324
So Cal | Keep on them or they will assume everythings okay. You may have more of an engine control problem than a voltage problem. The motor comming to an almost stall condition may bring engine rpm low enough to reduce alternator output. Next time you take it in dont mention the voltage problem. Just tell them about the stalls and it might take them in a diffrent diagnostic direction. Curing the stall might fix your voltage problem. |
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Iron Butt
Posts: 904
29 Palms California | yes it still happens. At quick stops and so forth. 3x's so far. I watch for it, and try and apply slow steady twist to get the volts back up to operational ranges. Any schooled up techs on here? I know I'm not the only one that has this issue, and as I mentioned, it's easy to live with, I just preffer not to. CJ, I was told by the shop, that they would call me when they had an answer to the Gas Guage, and Temp Guage. No call yet. I might bug them for ideas on answers tomorrow. As you know, I'm 180miles from the nearest dealer that I can rely on, so I can't just drop in and have them give it the once over. |
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Visionary
Posts: 1484
LaPorte,Tx. | BUCKEYE - 2008-01-17 11:04 PM
yes it still happens. At quick stops and so forth. 3x's so far. I watch for it, and try and apply slow steady twist to get the volts back up to operational ranges.
Is your idle speed up, it may not be set properly and getting to low when causing the voltage to drop to 9v, that is really low. I believe idle speed should be around 900-1000 rpm. |
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Iron Butt
Posts: 904
29 Palms California | i have to say the voltage drop varies. I think you might be on to something. |
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Iron Butt
Posts: 904
29 Palms California | it's a consistant drop, but rarely below 10. as you know, she'll definetly stall lower than that. Hmmm. Idle may have to get set highier. I'm so far away from the shop, that these ideas come in handy. I would have to spend the night if they worked on my scoot longer than 5 hours. |
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Tourer
Posts: 354
20 miles west of Chicago. | Just read the last few posts in this thread and started wondering. I believe the on board computer is programmed to momentarily cut off the fuel supply to the injectors when the throttle is closed quickly, to reduce emisions. I was wondering if suddenly letting off the throttle on deceleration, or as occurrs when 'blipping' the throttle, might not cause a momentary fuel starvation or way-lean condition, which might take a moment for the fuel system, and therefore the engine, to recover from. This might cause the engine to falter momentarily, possibly to the point where the motor comes very close to stalling, or in fact does stall. This also might cause the engine speed to drop to the point where the alternator fails to generate enough voltage, causing a drop in the voltage meter reading, and also effecting the spark, and a resultant drop in manifold pressure, further increasing the possibility of an engine stall, or near stall. Just wondering, like I said; could be dead wrong.
Edited by Mudge 2008-01-19 2:05 PM
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Visionary
Posts: 3204
Memphis | I think Mudge is on to something. My bike stalled a couple of times with the stock exhaust (thought it was just part of the break-in) but has run perfectly since Stage 1/Level 1 install. It really ran on the edge of lean when stock. Great gas mileage though. Stock exhaust with spring/summer temps should get MPG's around 50 easily. My voltage readout is also rock steady with the S1/L1 change. (I didn't notice anything obviously wrong with the voltage when stock though.) It feels like everything is just not working so hard to maintain a balance. Mileage went down about 10% but the bike just starts easier and breathes easier. I personally don't feel an increase in power from the seat of the pants (stock felt great) but the bike just feels like it's not even trying now. Mine idles at exactly 1000rpm. |
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Tourer
Posts: 548
Mount Vernon, WA United States | I thought this had been covered elsewhere also.. but I have heard two plausible explanations to the stalling-when-coming-off-idle- thing
a. Because the bikes are running so lean, any "blipping" of the throttle is essentially "flooding" it just enough to stall it when you leave the stop.
b. The other explanation, and more likely maybe is the exact opposite. After being ridden for any length of time at speed, the bike is nice and warm, air flowing etc... you come to a stop... like at the end of an exit ramp or intersection. The engine is hot enough, and again because they are so lean from the factory, that when you go to take off, the engine is starved.
As far as looking at the battery, that was to rule out other electrical issues such as charging and such. |
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Tourer
Posts: 447
Cleveland, GA | I haven't noticed any problems like it with my stock setup. My bike constantly produces between 13.5 and 14.5 volts, even while running the HID light, headlight on bright, heated handgrips and seat on, GPS and radio on, idling in traffic. Buckeye, could your problem have anything to do with the way your bike complies with California emission regulations? |
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Cruiser
Posts: 80
Richmond, Texas | Posted Twice -- sorry.
Edited by Byrdman 2008-02-05 11:35 AM
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Cruiser
Posts: 80
Richmond, Texas | I have had this problem since I bought the bike. Now its starting to do it even more. They say they have replaced the regulator already. I also have an oil leak coming from the back jug near the exhaust port. Its almost like a spray. Either way, I am pissed that I spent 28K on a bike that's not running right.
I want my Valkyrie back!!!
Edited by Byrdman 2008-02-05 11:35 AM
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Iron Butt
Posts: 904
29 Palms California | byrdman, easy...back away from the valkyrie,,,your alright brother. Don't do anything rash...it will be O. K.!! You have the warrenty, and yes you may feel a bit remiss, but you h-a-v-e the warrenty. The shop should fix you up....unfortunatley, they don't have quick answers to problems on this new bike. It's a new production..you will be O. K....now drink a beer and get back in there and fight! |
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Visionary
Posts: 1484
LaPorte,Tx. | Aaaahhh YES, I can see the BuckSter has adapted the level headed, calm approach to life's little issues!!!! You ARE the man!!  |
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Visionary
Posts: 1324
So Cal | He's like the weather, give him a sec, and he'll change. |
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Iron Butt
Posts: 904
29 Palms California | cj-oh-heck-no, I'm level headed...most of the time...um. yeah. I forgot, you've witnessed my madness. Pay NO attention to that man behind the curtain! For the record, I couldn't imagine going back to the HD. I don't know how you do it cj. Then again, you probably have some bones dropped into the old girl. I can't believe tweety bird blasphemed with hate and discontent. I hope it was a moment of weakness, and he mans up. I mean, who doesn't know a new production (anything) won't have a few glitches? Then again he did pay 28k...I guess he got the gold plated stereo bezzles and they added more frequency grease to his radio? 28k? Seriously, who pays that much for a bike that has an oil leak? Oh, the warrenty will cover that? hmmmm where is my receipt? |
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Strange thing just happened