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Tourer
Posts: 329
scotts valley, California | The more I read of these posts, the more I wonder what's the deal. The Vision is a great bike, well engineered, fairly well built, and priced competitively. It has a lot of potential to really be "the new American motorcycle". HOWEVER, if the service departments do not rectify the little problems that will, and do, come up with a new design like this, what does the manufacturer think is going to happen to their market (us)? We are going to look a little closer at the competition. I bought my bike to ride, not to repeatedly have to leave in the shop or spend hours bloodying my own knuckles attempting to make repairs the Victory shop should confidently handle with a smile.
My bike has been in the shop at Pleasenton, CA., Seattle, WA., and Rapid City, SD., about squeaky belt issues (as well as regular maintainance). They have given me three different opinions about belt tension alone. What's up wit dat? Currently my bike screeches, not chirps, around the neighborhood and across the states making a real statement to any observers. The statement more than likely is NOT, "Go to your local Victory dealer and buy a Vision". |
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Iron Butt
Posts: 600
Linwood, MI | It's not something that is exclusive to Victory, BSG. Before I went to Victory I had a Suzuki. The number 2 reason I didn't even bother to look at a Suzuki when it was time to buy a new bike is that every time I wanted some work done at the local dealer it was a 3-6 week wait and they wanted me to leave the bike there for that whole time. No thank you.
My local Vic dealer was fantastic. I could stop in any time to have something looked at really quickly, and for anything more extensive they could almost always get me in within 2 days and usually gave me a demo bike to ride while they worked on mine. Sadly, they succumbed to the poor economy. I sure do miss those guys. |
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Iron Butt
Posts: 725
Reno County, KS | The wrenches are good guys. I think the problem is their hands are tied by Polaris. The one's I visited for pulley problems both mentioned I may need a new rear sprocket but neither one was willing to give me a warrantied one until Polaris bought off on it... That was last year. I'm still waiting... I've visited a few dealerships and only had bad experiences from the one I bought the bike from (unfortunately). |
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Tourer
Posts: 329
scotts valley, California | You are right, Rebel and Big Will; the wrenches are good guys. It is probably up to Polaris to promote the popularity of the "New American Motorcycle. Perhaps Victory should put the spurs to them a bit. Since my original post, my local service department at Pleasanton has ordered new pulleys and belts so that, when I do come in, they will be better prepared to do what they gotta do. |
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Tourer
Posts: 537
, FL United States | Victory does make a good home.. my problems have been dealer problems only... some of them just don't understand customer service. I guess that is why their driveways are always empty |
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Cruiser
Posts: 175
Colorado | Can I ask a couple questions?
How many of you have dealers that are multi brand? i.e.(suzuki, Yamaha, Kawasaki, other)
How many of you have dealers that are multi power sport focused? i.e.(Snow Mobiles, ATV, Scooters, other)
How many of your delaers have kids (30 and under) working the parts or service counters?
Truly I know the answer here in Colorado....the real issue is lack of focus by the dealers on Victory or dare I say motorcycling. There are very few dealers nationwide that focus on and sell only Victory's all year long. We know our bikes much better than they do in most cases because its our focus or interest. Theirs is to make a buck and do what ever it is they do after work in most cases its not even motorcycling.
Having three different wrenches in different states have a different opinion on whats wrong, tells me they don't see the problem often enough to know and/or don't work on Victory's frequently enough to have an opnion and none of them read these forums because their isn't interest in their trade. Where have all the craftsman or artisan's gone?
Lloyd and Kevinx are rare people who took an interest and expand on their skillset and knowledge of the brand. Buy the bike by all means but query your service staff to death and bring them a 6 pack of beer once in awhile when you don't need anything it does wonders as to how you are treated. Still be understanding they don't see these bikes that often to know......you have to tell them what you read and learn.
JMO |
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Tourer
Posts: 447
Northeastern Penna. | Please, Give Victory a break ! Maybe ? Let's not even go in depth about the dealers and the service departments. I and probably everyone else who rides in/on a 2 or 4 wheel machine, can relate to a not so pleasant story about these hellish service departments. |
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Cruiser
Posts: 177
| 95 percent of the dealers SUCK! I will buy a Harley next... |
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Visionary
Posts: 2118
Pitt Meadows, BC Canada | Oh, yeah... and you have had some service at all 95% - wow! I would think you would have quit MUCH sooner.....
what a laugh! |
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Visionary
Posts: 1324
So Cal | There are a lot of issues at play here. The dealer I bought mine from was Victory only. GREAT service, great dealer. Problem was, Victory only. They went out of business. Unlike most repair shops, new vehicle dealers need new vehicle sales to survive. Victory doesn't have that following yet. To be Victory only, dealers need major support and advertizing from the manufacturer. Something we all know is lacking from Polaris. Their dealer network is too small for them to be ignoring customers. To keep customers comming back, you have to be willing to take it in the shorts ($) sometimes. Within reason of course.
Service departments want good service people. Unfortunately their pay is on a commission basis. Hard to attract good people and keep them if the cant earn a decent living. The MC industry is 10 years behind the automotive industry as far as technology is concerned, which is becomming a problem nationwide. The new cars out there have more computing power than that thing your sitting in front of. The engineer that designed it probably made six figures designing it. The guy that has to fix it will be lucky if he make $30k. Do you really think the 2010 Camero or Challenger will ever be collector items? No, because the electronic modules will eventually be discontinued.
The motorcycle industry should take note, too much technology is a not good.
Lastly, the workforce is changing. I have been working since I was 15. I always took pride in what I did. Not because of what I did or who I worked for. But because my NAME was associated with that job. I take pride in everything I do. I continue to strive to be the best.
There are too many out there that are more than happy to hide at work all day and collect a paycheck.
Victory could be so much more. Is it because they would rather HIDE all day and collect their paycheck, or is it because they cant FIND people with any pride?
Edited by cjnoho 2009-06-09 11:57 PM
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Cruiser
Posts: 177
| Well donetracy the fact is this my secon Victory I love both the bikes, but when you have $40.000-$50,000 on 2 bikes and in the last 5 years you have lost 3 dealers within 50 miles of you and the next closet dealer is 90 miles away that sure would make seriously look at Harley. Not to mention that dealer SUCKS. What would you suggest that I do? There sure is alot of $ wrapped upped into something you can't get serviced, so I wouldn't say I gave up. Sorry to any GOOD dealers looking at this site about the 95 percent commet, but i sure wish you were in MI. |
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Visionary
Posts: 1324
So Cal | mgoblue - 2009-06-09 10:07 PM
Well donetracy the fact is this my secon Victory I love both the bikes, but when you have $40.000-$50,000 on 2 bikes and in the last 5 years you have lost 3 dealers within 50 miles of you and the next closet dealer is 90 miles away that sure would make seriously look at Harley. Not to mention that dealer SUCKS. What would you suggest that I do? There sure is alot of $ wrapped upped into something you can't get serviced, so I wouldn't say I gave up. Sorry to any GOOD dealers looking at this site about the 95 percent commet, but i sure wish you were in MI.
I'm with you. The Vision is a great product. But, If Victory doesn't do something, it will be my last.
After a year and a half, people still aske me about the bike. I tell them it's a great bike but dealer network and factory support sucks. |
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Cruiser
Posts: 177
| Thankyou cjnoho. I'm sure the only way if any to get this issue fixed is for some big shot at Polaris or Victory to here enough of this. This is my 9th Polaris product, i'm 34 years old. Never had any real issues with my sleds or quads but the Victory is a different story. Not major problems, just the stupid little ones that should be addressed. Thank you for feeling my pain... |
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Visionary
Posts: 1324
So Cal | mgoblue - 2009-06-09 10:22 PM
Thankyou cjnoho. I'm sure the only way if any to get this issue fixed is for some big shot at Polaris or Victory to here enough of this. This is my 9th Polaris product, i'm 34 years old. Never had any real issues with my sleds or quads but the Victory is a different story. Not major problems, just the stupid little ones that should be addressed. Thank you for feeling my pain...
Sounds like Polaris won you over then let you down. It's the little stuff that keeps picking at you.
Lose a limb, you learn to deal with it. Get an itch you cant reach and it'll drive you crazy! |
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Visionary
Posts: 2118
Pitt Meadows, BC Canada | Well I just find these stories somewhat incredible. Only because in 50 years on many different manufacturer's of bikes, I haven't run into anything like what some of you are saying. Maybe I live in Heaven, or I somehow have missed all this crud.
Seriously - no one here would be in business for a month if they acted the way you are saying. Maybe you expect miracles? I'm sorry - I just miss your point - people who have invested their lives in a business just don't act like assholes unless someone is expecting a miracle.
And I am sure Victory would squash any dealer who disrespected their product like that - my dealer gives me a Vision to ride when I bring mine in for a service - and I don't have to ask.
I would like to see a 'POLL' of our members to see what their experience has been - I don't think the problems of a few of us should be a measure of what we ALL have experienced. Anyone???? |
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Cruiser
Posts: 177
| Hell yeah, bring on the poll. You seriously live in a Victory heaven. Never ever have I had any dealer let me take one of there bikes while they work on mine. For pete sakes the f--king dealer in Lansing wants to keep my bike for 7-10 days for a "blueing" tip. oh yeah that's roughly 90 miles from my house. The other dealer in Grand Rapids wanted me to wait 3 weeks to bring it back, when they had an opening becuase there to f--king busy working on God Damn lawnmowers, this shit that people are talikg about is not made up. If you think that all of us have nothing better to do than sit on a computer and make this stuff up your an idiot. |
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Cruiser
Posts: 257
Under the Rule of Jedi - Masshole | mgoblue - 2009-06-09 11:02 PM
95 percent of the dealers SUCK! I will buy a Harley next...WOW! I"m with you! I can't remember the last time I rode by a H-D dealer and saw that they have service bays. I think the remodeled them all into clothing boutiques!
Good luck on your new quest.
Hmmm... how am I gonna fit H-D into my sig? |
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Visionary
Posts: 8144
New Bohemia, VA | Here we go again. I think we all assumed some risk buying a product that doesn't have "dealers" right around the corner. I have one right around the corner but that was not my deciding factor on buying a Victory. Since buying a Victory, I'm in Victory heaven as I absolutely love this bike in spite of its character and the seemingly lack of support by the MotherShip.
If I was disgruntled as protrayed by the 1/100th of the Victory population that frequence this forum or to narrow down to the 1/10th of the population of Vision owners, I wouldn't bother making a post and would be happily hanging out at the local HD dealer with a big Ford pickup out front sporting the big HD sticker braggin' how Victory sucks and how great HD is. |
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Visionary
Posts: 8144
New Bohemia, VA | badnvegas - 2009-06-09 8:58 PM
Can I ask a couple questions?
How many of you have dealers that are multi brand? i.e.(suzuki, Yamaha, Kawasaki, other)
How many of you have dealers that are multi power sport focused? i.e.(Snow Mobiles, ATV, Scooters, other)
How many of your delaers have kids (30 and under) working the parts or service counters?
JMO
How many of you have dealers that are multi brand? i.e.(suzuki, Yamaha, Kawasaki, other) -
I have a pure Victory Dealer!
How many of you have dealers that are multi power sport focused? i.e.(Snow Mobiles, ATV, Scooters, other)
Not mine!
How many of your delaers have kids (30 and under) working the parts or service counters?
Manager, Tech, Parts and Sales all in the 30's. (owner is mom and pop)
Edited by varyder 2009-06-10 5:53 AM
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Puddle Jumper
Posts: 26
minnesota | Here in MN I think we have a good dealer network. The dealer I bought my Vision from is more a ATV, snowmobile, boat dealer I think but their service was still good. I think their mechanic was fairly new at servicing bikes, but I bought the bike on July 2nd 2008. They put on the S1L1 and other accessories, then worked on the 5th (saturday) on it so I could pick it up that day. They are 2 hours away from me, so I take my warranty/recall items to a local dealer who sells the Polaris line of ATVs and snowmobiles as well as bikes. The owner (locally) was mentioned in the Victory quarterly magazine and his place is first rate. Maybe I have been lucky but I have not had many issues in 5600 miles. My son-in-law just bought a 2009 H-D Ultra so I'll be able to see what issues if any he has. As for H-D, they are hurting also right now - my friend is a H-D Master mechanic (and was the lead mechanic) and he was laid off the friday before Memorial weekend. The dealer with two locations and they let go all the Master mechanics to save money. I don't see the logic in taking out the Master mechanics (other than short term $$) but their customers will no longer get Master mechanic service/knowledge.
Bottom line I guess is that I am thankful for the people on this forum who share how to fix things if you want to do them yourself, I am thankful I have a dealer network around me that appears good, and I am thankful that the Vision isn't just another 2 wheel motorcycle.
There is the crowd (not unique/different)
There is H-D crowd (used to be but no longer unique/different)
There is the Vision Rider (definitely unique/different) |
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Cruiser
Posts: 63
Corpus Christi Tx. | donetracey - 2009-06-10 12:56 AM
Well I just find these stories somewhat incredible. Only because in 50 years on many different manufacturer's of bikes, I haven't run into anything like what some of you are saying. Maybe I live in Heaven, or I somehow have missed all this crud.
Seriously - no one here would be in business for a month if they acted the way you are saying. Maybe you expect miracles? I'm sorry - I just miss your point - people who have invested their lives in a business just don't act like assholes unless someone is expecting a miracle.
And I am sure Victory would squash any dealer who disrespected their product like that - my dealer gives me a Vision to ride when I bring mine in for a service - and I don't have to ask.
I would like to see a 'POLL' of our members to see what their experience has been - I don't think the problems of a few of us should be a measure of what we ALL have experienced. Anyone????
Must be nice to be given a Vision when your bike is in service. My local dealer did not have a black Vision when I went in to buy one and said that they would not be getting any in until 09 and this was last July of 08. I told him that I will buy elsewhere and the salesman told me to be sure to get it serviced wherever I buy cause they will not service any bikes that are not bought there. I have to travel 200 miles to the dealer I bought from to have mine serviced having one locally that will not touch it unless it is a factory recall...which by the way they had to do. But it's OK to travel the 200 miles cause the Vision is a road bike and the wife and I will enjoy the ride up there. By the way...the dealer I bought from is one of the original Victory dealers that has a great reputation in service and sales. Polaris West in Katy Texas is my dealer and they have some great folks working there.
Ride safe. |
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Cruiser
Posts: 204
guelph ontario | Never had a problem with service for my Hondas, Yamahas or HD. Had lots of problems with Vic service. Seen my share of Vic dealers as I travel around and in fact make it a point of searching out and visiting dealers-even when I am on a car trip and I can say that I have seen lots more crappy dealerships than good ones. If Vic does not want to stay a small off brand bike its time for them to step up with dealerships. They put millions upon millions into the bike design but then fail to follow up with an equally great dealer network. Rather go a bit further if it means less dealers if I can get great reliable service. Vic also needs to step up with it hououring of warranties for product issues instead of stonewalling. |
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Visionary
Posts: 8144
New Bohemia, VA | sledge I know of the dealer you are talking of when I saw your location. I stopped at the dealer south of Houston and was looking for a flag for the Vision and they had one Vision and about two other Vic's and the rest were atv's go-karts etc. they had very little accesories for Victory and definetly no flags. When I asked if they thought the dealer in corpus had them, they laughed and said they don't have anything, bikes are overpriced and they send people to houston if they don't like their price.
To find the dealer in houston I stopped at the Polaris dealer to find out where the Victory dealer was. He wanted to know why I wanted to go there, to trade in my bike? I told him no, I just wanted to go there. He then tried to sell me a Goldwing. I told him why should I buy a Goldwing when I just rode 1,200 miles the day before and only stopped because of the storm. He then wanted to see the Vision closer but when he did all he could do was make fun of it, calling it a hammerhead shark. I just laughed and told him call it want you like but it beats a goldwing any day and rode away.
Edited by varyder 2009-06-10 8:58 AM
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Tourer
Posts: 329
scotts valley, California | I started this thread in the hopes that the Vision "powers that be" would become just a little more aware of what is going on in the minds of some of their clients and possibly DO something to improve the situation for us current owners and for the future of the Victory Vision. Thank you all for your participation, which, if ever read by the Victory management, should help drive home the need for improved service.
Obviously the economy is suffering, and businesses are suffering. I think all of us, who have invested $20k plus in a beautifully designed (from an asthetic and from an engineering point of view) machine that has soul to boot, are pulling for you. Five years from now, we do not want to be the not so proud owners of what was hoped to be "The New American Motorcycle" but turned out to be a flash in the pan. |
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Visionary
Posts: 8144
New Bohemia, VA | I firmly believe forums have their place, but they are no way a substitute from personal contact to Victory through letters, calls, emails, etc. If one method does not work, keep moving up the chain until you get to the big man himself, but the ranting and raving on the forum will not get them to change business practise.
In the scheme of things, forums have very little affect as they are more hearsay then fact. A personal complaint to Polaris/Victory about a certain "dealer" would make them come down and take away their big sign.
I have a full up Victory "dealer" but it is not owned or operated by Victory. It is all they can do to allow shipment of certain things and pay them when they sell, otherwise, it is buy it up front and then sell. To me, by definition, that is not a dealer, but a reseller or "jobber" as I call them. A dealer would have a full factory relationship and so on that is supported by the factory and is followed up through total resolution of a problem. They might have a direct number but many times they are hard press to get an answer or information themselves.
I personally thank you for your post as it brings back up a discussion that occured about a year ago over the same thing with the same predictions concerning Victory and the dealers. IMHO whether Victory does become a flash in the pan, they will continue to have a strong following, with me being part of that clan. |
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Visionary
Posts: 2118
Pitt Meadows, BC Canada | Last Saturday I stopped by my dealer just to say hi. I asked my Salesguy if he had been following the thread on Victory Service (not this one) and he said that he hadn't visited the site in some time.
So here is what I did: I went to every computer in the dealership and made the following change to each computer
1. Open EXPLORER
2. Click on "New Tab" (or press Ctrl 'T'
3. Typed in 'www.vision-riders.com' in the address bar
4. Click on 'Tools'
5. Click on 'Internet Options'
6. Click the 'Use Current' button
7. Click on 'Save'
So now, every time the dealer opens Explorer on any of the computers, there is a TAB for Vision-Riders - and NO EXCUSE for the dealer to claim ignorance of what we think or what is happening in the Vision world. I told them to stop dinking around with the 'PORN' sites and pay attention to us.
I then brought up the 'Thread' about dealerships ("Love My Bike But Not The Dealerships" and had him read the whole thing. Not that I had a problem - just so they would know what others are putting up with.
Maybe this might be something you could do for your dealers.
Dealerships like you describe wouldn't be in business long in this country. What the hell is going on? |
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Puddle Jumper
Posts: 17
| mgoblue - 2009-06-09 10:02 PM
95 percent of the dealers SUCK! I will buy a Harley next...
the hd shops are not much better... they hire "kids" right out of school, pay them flat rate and they tear stuff up trying to make a paycheck.
imho the independent shops (older techs) are better...
would you rather have "some kid" making 10 or 12 bucks an hour working on your bike or some one who has been with the product (victory) for 9 years who "should" be clocking 20- 25 bucks an hour... "done right the first time" is something that is aquired over time, NOT SCHOOL!
i have been working on bikes since 1995, all kinds, its a hard market out there. and as a local shop told me a few months ago "why should i hire you when i can get 3 kids and pay them less than i would pay you combined?" my responce was "good, fast and cheap. you can choose 2, good and fast, not cheap. cheap and fast not good. good and cheap, not fast."
i am lucky to have a job in this market, its not the "dealers" fault. they are also trying to survive this market- that means cutting back where they can. god help us all.
cdevon1200
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Puddle Jumper
Posts: 17
| donetracey - 2009-06-10 12:19 PM
Last Saturday I stopped by my dealer just to say hi. I asked my Salesguy if he had been following the thread on Victory Service (not this one) and he said that he hadn't visited the site in some time.
So here is what I did: I went to every computer in the dealership and made the following change to each computer
1. Open EXPLORER
2. Click on "New Tab" (or press Ctrl 'T')
3. Typed in 'www.vision-riders.com' in the address bar
4. Click on 'Tools'
5. Click on 'Internet Options'
6. Click the 'Use Current' button
7. Click on 'Save'
So now, every time the dealer opens Explorer on any of the computers, there is a TAB for Vision-Riders - and NO EXCUSE for the dealer to claim ignorance of what we think or what is happening in the Vision world. I told them to stop dinking around with the 'PORN' sites and pay attention to us.
I then brought up the 'Thread' about dealerships ("Love My Bike But Not The Dealerships") and had him read the whole thing. Not that I had a problem - just so they would know what others are putting up with.
Maybe this might be something you could do for your dealers.
Dealerships like you describe wouldn't be in business long in this country. What the hell is going on?
"back in the day" when vod (victory of dallas) was open... our "other shop" caused a big stink on the vmc site and "i" had to defend not only my name but the companies name and rep. alot of "my" customers stepped up to help. the "good' dealers are few and far between but worth the trip.
cdevon1200
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Visionary
Posts: 8144
New Bohemia, VA | My dealer will not visit the forums especially theVMC as they were sick of the folks trying to them how to run their business and telling them how to fix bikes. That happened before I knew the forum existed. They even yanked the 15% discount and we no longer have a "chapter" because they do not have a rapport with the dealer as required. |
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Cruiser
Posts: 196
| Those of us in the CVCVMC that would deal with them in a reasonable manner, did and still do have a good relationship with our dealer.
Those folks that thought they knew everything or were unwilling to comprimise because Victory supports us and the dealers so well, chose to bad mouth the dealer rather than attempt to work through the issue of the day. This is the main reason the CVC is no more, and the reason that our dealer doesn't want to deal with these members of the VMC or offer them discounts.
I have had and still have an awesome relationship with our dealer, and will continue to deal with them, both for my conveince and the health of my awesome SSG Tour Premium!   |
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Tourer
Posts: 537
, FL United States | There are good dealers and then there are not so good dealers. I did find a good dealer and he stopped selling and servicing Victory's and now I am in search again. |
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Tourer
Posts: 537
, FL United States | I can tell you that I will not do business with anyone that tries to belittle me.
Edited by dr_reloader 2009-06-10 9:38 PM
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Tourer
Posts: 329
scotts valley, California | As well you should not do business with a dealer who tries to belittle you.
Eeek; poor service along with a belittling attitude. They must really want your money!
Nottttt |
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What is up with Vision service departments?