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Cruiser
Posts: 226
on the edge of Los Angeles | For fun on the way home from our ride yesturday I stopped by the local California DMV to navigate the keyhole driver test while my wife was on the back. I was going to show my wife "How we do it"
Well we laughed a bit as I dont think the Vision at full lock can actually make the "Inside the yellow lines" turn. Proper set up is the key I think.
I passed the test long ago on a small Honda.
Anyone else tried this. I think I may need to retest myself later....
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Cruiser
Posts: 203
Rapid City, SD | I have just been trained up as a MSF Rider Coach. I can do the 20' U-Turn box (smallest) on the Vision after a few practice runs. I don't know how well I would fare on the 20' box with a passenger though. That would be interesting.
It was fun freaking out the coach instructor and the other trainees when I would carve through the turns and scrape pegs of my Anniversary Vision. I wonder if I am the first Anniversary owner to teach the MSF course? |
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Tourer
Posts: 562
SC, Bluffton | af goalie - 2009-06-15 11:49 AM
I have just been trained up as a MSF Rider Coach. I would carve through the turns and scrape pegs of my Anniversary Vision.
Are there ever any challenges to not scraping anything, or points deducted for scrapping anything performing the same tasks as others? It just doesn't seem like the engineers built their products correctly, or the MSF is performing tasks deemed unnecessary by the engineers?
Hey, I'll tell you right now, I can't scrape floorboards. I can't ride wheelies, or do stoppies either.
Herb |
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Tourer
Posts: 548
Mount Vernon, WA United States | In the past few years mostly, there has been a growing obsession it seems with scraping pegs and such. I personally don't get it. In my world, the only thing other than rubber that should touch the pavement is the kickstand when you're stopped. I have looked at, and even done some of the advanced rider techniques from that Total Control course and I will say going through the drills does increase your familiarity with the ability and limits of your bike. But once you master the maneuvers allowing a bike to touch-down, I think it would be more useful to do the same maneuvers without touching metal to pavement. You certainly don't see Europosrts and Dualsports touching down, and I have never seen a Cop scrape his pegs. The Vision has "tip over" points, not "cornering assistants." Scraping should not be the goal IMHO, but I think it's worth knowing what happens if you do and be able to recover from it.
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Cruiser
Posts: 271
Belding Michigan | Have you ever seen the Police course at Pacific Grove CA if you had you could not say you have never seem a Cop drag stuff. The course is to be run by two members of the same department running side by side and doing figure eights, Loops and stops syncronized together and are marked down for lack of coordination and it is a timed event done on a closed city street in front of the Pacific Gove High School. I went to it for a number of years and it was wild to watch and see what they could do with the bikes. At that time they were using Harleys on most departments and the LA county Sherriff bikes (they brought about 20 or so were Kawa's.) would demo how to burn up tires.
Following the compertition they would have Drill teams from San Jose and other departments including the show stopper the Oakland PD drill team known as Rolling Thunder run the drills at the same locations. It was truley something to see but dragging pegs, Floorboards and what ever hung down was a part of the day. |
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Visionary
Posts: 3006
San Antonio, TX | Miles,
I have touched my Highway pegs to the pavement on many occasions over the past year.
The floorboards have touched only once. It was on an off camber turn when I was still learning what the Vision could do. It was the first time and it startled me.
After that I looked at it as I would "Spin Recovery" in a plane.
The first time I was in a spin, I was practicing Minimum Controllable Airspeed (MCA) at 5000 feet above a large bay on the coast of South Texas. I was flying solo. I pulled back on the yoke to practice a power on stall recovery "Take Off Stall". Only problem is that just one wing stalled.
I fully pushed the opposite rudder, left the ailerons alone, cut power and dropped my flaps from 30 to 15 percent. The spin stopped and I recovered from the stall. I lost about 450 feet of altitude.
The plane only went about a half a turn but I knew what was going on. After landing I went looking for an instructor that would take me up for spin training. I do not like being startled by the unknown.
I would not recommend using the tipovers to test the limits of lean angle but the highway pegs are easily replaced.
Ride Safe |
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Cruiser
Posts: 203
Rapid City, SD | It's true I should calm it down a bit. I was even asked by my instructor to cool my jets a bit. He litterally though I was going to go sliding across the parking lot. Oh yeah, I was full into the tip overs when the instructor told me to take it easy.
I am not sure where my obsession began but I do like to know the limits of my bike in addition to my personal limits. If heaven forbid, I find myself in a sticky wicket I want the muscle memory to take over and hopefully save my bacon. When I first scraped I freaked myeslf out. It wasn't a fun experience. Now when I scrape I don't pucker like I used to.
If it costs me a bit of chrome to know mine and my bikes limitations then I feel thats a fair trade off.
Edited by af goalie 2009-06-15 5:29 PM
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Tourer
Posts: 548
Mount Vernon, WA United States | I guess we are on the same page about knowing the bikes limits so we don't get rattled. No issue there.
FWIW... next time you are at speed and start to touch the boards or pegs...... just lean into the turn a little further with your body..... and wha-la... the bike will lift OFF the pegs...
As far as the demo's and such... it's right up there with wheelie's, burnouts, stoppies...... in general... I don't get it... I've done them at one time or another... mostly by accident... (like just Saturday when my foot slipped of the brake on my LeMans and I did a Stoppie trying to not hit the car in front of me) felt kinda silly...
Each to his own... |
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Visionary
Posts: 2027
Brighton, TN | Hmmm! When I took the ERC, Experienced Rider Course, MSF course, I lost probably close to 1/2 inch of chrome and metal particles off the floorboards and highway pegs. The attempt was not to scrape, but merely, as AFGoalie, fellow scraper, would say, would be to test the limits and know what you can do at that point of touchdown.
Miles, I'm unsure I could have leaned further over, without getting off the bike! I was leaned so far over, that I was almost looking under the rearview mirror. So, I don't think that manuever would have worked. I was there to learn to see how the beast would perform. The instructors, once asked me to slow down during the Evasive manuever. The roundy, round with the Chicayne was a blast. The instructors thought for sure I was a crotch rocket guy. Never have rode one. But, me and my Memory Maker could outperform anyone on the field that day. It was a blast. |
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Tourer
Posts: 548
Mount Vernon, WA United States | That maneuver (leaning further) doesn't work at slow speed... very bad.. don't do it.. As I stated.. at speed... 30-45-ish at least.. but should be practiced like anything else. I should probably put a disclaimer or something up. LOL...
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Cruiser
Posts: 238
SF Bay Area | Miles - 2009-06-15 1:01 PM
In the past few years mostly, there has been a growing obsession it seems with scraping pegs and such. I personally don't get it. In my world, the only thing other than rubber that should touch the pavement is the kickstand when you're stopped. I have looked at, and even done some of the advanced rider techniques from that Total Control course and I will say going through the drills does increase your familiarity with the ability and limits of your bike. But once you master the maneuvers allowing a bike to touch-down, I think it would be more useful to do the same maneuvers without touching metal to pavement. You certainly don't see Europosrts and Dualsports touching down, and I have never seen a Cop scrape his pegs. The Vision has "tip over" points, not "cornering assistants." Scraping should not be the goal IMHO, but I think it's worth knowing what happens if you do and be able to recover from it.
When I first got my Vision, I jammed it into a L corner like I had done on my V92C thousands of times... and promptly chipped a reflector off from the roadway with my front tip-over guard. Hmm... not the same as my old Vic, I better slow down! On my V92C I repeatedly wore off the floorboard sacrificial bolts, and eventually ground off the support mount bolts on the frame. Oops. But now I am older and wiser, and ride my Vision much slower. |
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Tourer
Posts: 301
Buffalo Grove,Ill | Ive been practicing my circles u turns and fig 8s In a lot At my sons High school, very secluded and big enough. I can do very close to locked figure 8s on my 08 not real fast right now, but i would have to say im inside a 20 foot long by 15 foot wide box. Next time im gonna take some chalk and a measuring tape. Ive heard something about a 60 foot box? im well within that for sure but not sure what i am in. Its fun. Im working on building speed, but just keeping off the tip overs is challenging. |
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Tourer
Posts: 447
Cleveland, GA | The BRC box is 24x60 for training and 20x60 for the test. The ERC box is 28x70. |
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Puddle Jumper
Posts: 8
Alabama | Motor Scouts train in 18' u-turns and 18' circles. Took my 08 tour thru our slow speed course, it didn't fair as well as i wanted it too. I killed a few cones. We are taught to "ride in the friction zone" and "drag" the rear brake to get a Harley to turn around quick, thats all well and good on a county motor, but I don't want to beat up my Vision that way. With that said I have not had the need to turn it around in 18', but I have had the need for the bike to handle well at speed. I also put it thru the panic brake course, she out did every bike out there, and my heart wasn't pounding at the end of the course. It just felt right. |
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Visionary
Posts: 1290
Ruskin, Fl | I practiced a lot using the methods on the "Ride Like A Pro" DVD produced by a retired motor cop. I gave it too much rear brake in a very slow tight turn while practicing with the Vision and had to get off and pick the bike up. Not a fan of the linked brakes. I felt the front brake grab and it pulled me right down. I found the linked brakes have made be lazy too. Slowing for a light I find my self just using the rear only often. Just my opinion. |
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Visionary
Posts: 3006
San Antonio, TX | +1 on Ride Like a Pro V. It is a great DVD.
Here I am in the 24x60 box.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M-HJCNyGois
Ride Safe
Victory Vision Oil and Filter Change. 
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3fak_RmAp5M
Edited by radioteacher 2009-06-16 8:23 PM
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Visionary
Posts: 1324
So Cal | I took my CA test on a Sportster. The lady giving the test just bought a new one. I told her I didnt think it was going to fit on the course. She said to just worry about the front wheel. Passed with no problem. |
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Testing your skills?