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Iron Butt
Posts: 1158
Richmond, Virginia | OK, its like every time I come on this site daily, there is another posting of bad to poor
dealers. The ratio is 7 bad to every 2-3 good with one no comment.
Can i strongly urge EVERY SINGLE MEMBER of this site to get up off their comfortable Vision seat, and formulate a non bitchy letter to Mark the VP at Victory. We should have a dedicated maling date so that each of us mails our letter on the same day so that within a 3 day window
Victory gets all these letters of concern. That would be hard to not address on a corporate level.
Lets be realistic guys, griping and bitching on this site isnt going to fix a darn thing. All it does
is let you get your anger off your chest, but you still have to deal with the same dealer and their
issues down the road when you have your next visit.
Lets become pro-active and make something happen. If you guys want, mail all the letters to me and I will bulk mail them in one packet so they receive letters from all over the country
at one time. Whatever it takes, lets get it moving. But it must start with you.
ok, now you can go back to your regular scheduled coffee, newspaper, and Today Show ritual.
Cpt. Mac |
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Iron Butt
Posts: 721
| That sounds like a great idea!
The only problem I would see with it is that Mark Blackwell still is not the head guy at Polaris and as many people here know, Polaris as a company is not very customer friendly. The attitude problem needs to be addressed from the top down to be of any good, but any effort to change that attitude is to be commended.
Just my 2 cents worth......
P.S. Let's keep this thread up top so that when the letters are written and mailed everyone on here will know when and what to do. |
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Cruiser
Posts: 177
| HELL YEAH!!! Let's get it done. I'm all for anything that can help ALL of us in getting better service for these buetiful bikes we invest TONS of $$$$$$$$$$$$$ into. I'm into whatever the majority wants to do.... |
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Visionary
Posts: 3006
San Antonio, TX | Who at Victory is in charge of the Dealer network. We could send the letters to their boss or even the next level up. |
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Tourer
Posts: 432
Gettysburg, 2008 Tour Premium | The first thing that should be established is a contact person (customer service dept.) at Polaris. As it stands Polaris is a very 'hands off' company and as far as I can see directs all contacts back to the dealer, even if the dealer is is reason for the contact concirn. In trying to contact Polaris by email to get the details of the 5 Year Warranty they would not even supply the information, and it appeared in there advertisment! There is power in numbers just look at the Gold Wing Road Riders Association. But just a bunch of guys on the other end of a keyboard usually does not demand that much attention until they start acting as a group. So what about the Vision Road Riders Assoc. ? What about a yearly rally? |
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Tourer
Posts: 496
Scottsdale AZ | This has been a day one problem with Victory and the dealers. Flash back to Aug of 07. When I was called that my VV was in and ready to pick up, I had opted for about $3000 in accessories that I paid for with the purchase. Since the accessories were not delivered at time of purchase, I was told they would be delivered within a week. OK, I said leave the $3,000 on the invoice "marked paid". 10 days, no accessories, 3 weeks, they are "on the truck" 6 weeks, two small items delivered. Wellllllllllllllllll after 4 or 5 months, it hit the fan. The small numbers of new owners, wrote letters, made phone calls, even talked to the regional rep in person when he was in town. All answers were, "we know, we are working on it".
That was just the first story, I will leave out the ones in between then and now, since like Vary "I want to be know as a man of few words".
My observations in all of this is that it is 95% a problem with Victory. I have been there when calls from the dealer was made to Vic with no success. I think as the numbers grow of Vision owners it will carry a louder voice, but even today we are really small in numbers to them.
Sign me up to do whatever the masses here would like, from letters to phone calls to leading the parade, I know it can't hurt.
With that said, Victory did one hell of a job in putting this beast on the street! Luckily, I haven't had one, not one, mechanical issue after 30k plus. Just think if these dealer-Vic issues were on us every week with the problems I used to have with the other brand of bike.
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Tourer
Posts: 460
Centennial, CO | Sheez...I was beat to the punch by 5 hours...UGH! Great Post VP!
I too was going to post something similar to this. However, I was doing some research to give some options! I am SICK and TIRED of the BS that goes on with my dealership and them telling me that Victory is the one that isn't allowing a warranty item. Why even give me a warr....ok...wait...write a letter, I know. LOL
I am going to post a new thread with all of his contact information and several others that we may be interested in...This way all you have the information in the first part of the thread and not having to dig for it.
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Visionary
Posts: 1324
So Cal | Ive written letters and they just send another dealer survey. No one even took the time for a peronal response. We can try but without a contact on the inside, one thats high up in te company, I dont think it will help. |
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Visionary
Posts: 8144
New Bohemia, VA | oh course I'll say something, I hear the groans already.
One, be very specific about YOUR problem with the local dealer. Also, to my understanding there are "field reps", and this may be the one to contact. Nobody can respond to "he said, she said" stuff, so it has to be first person, and it has to be specific. I don't think "my dealer treats me mean everytime I come in, is a Victory problem" as that "dealer" bought or is renting that sign from them.
Second, it even might be more productive to write a letter of encouragement to Victory telling how great the product is, yet it seems that your dealer, or a dealer doesn't seem to get the support needed because of _________________(state reason, such as: everytime I've gone about (specific) problem I spent two hours at the dealer while the dealer was on hold for two hours with Victory waiting for a tech to respond. or, dealer received damage part and I had to wait another week for one to arrive.)
The funny thing is that Victory advertises they are the best by JD Powers and touts a 95% customer satisfaction rate. Maybe those 95% satisfied owners are doing what VaParadox does, buys donuts every time he visits and has the dealer over for dinner on a regular bases. |
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Cruiser
Posts: 204
guelph ontario | I bought my first Vic in 02-at that time the dealer network was not very good. Since then I have found that the network is not much better. I dont believe that Vic doesnt know it has issues with dealers as they have lost so many over the years and continue to do so. Not sure they care as not much has changed. As long as the money keeps flowing in to Polaris there is no need to have improvements. As well as writing, we should all consider doing as much work on our bikes as we can ourselves and in effect boycott the dealerships, especially if they are crappy. With monetary pressure the dealer will, or should, be forced to improve. If they continue to go out of business then Vic (Polaris) will eventually get the message. Problem is that most Vic dealers also sell ATVs and sleds so money does keep flowing and there is not a need to pick up on the bikes. It is a great bike, but the dealer network and service takes away from the entire experience. HD has realized the importance of the service and good dealers and has required the dealers to pour, in some cases millions of dollars, into their dealerships to upgrade the appearance, shop and customer experience. Vic should learn from this. I dont think they can compete with HD because of scale however a few good dealers as opposed to a lot of crappy ones will slowly build the brand and the sales eventually. |
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Visionary
Posts: 2118
Pitt Meadows, BC Canada | HMMM. I thought that by filling out my "Customer Satisfaction" survey WAS letting Victory know what I think. Which was apparently what 95% of the rest of you think - that Victory does a good job.
5% of Vision owners represents less than 200 unhappy people - and Victory KNOWS that. Good luck. |
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Tourer
Posts: 506
Woodland Hills, CA | My dealer sells a full line of Polaris products, and says that the problems we are having with Victory are consistent with all Polaris products, and have been since the beginning. Further, he says that even though they are always telling him "we know and are working on it", nothing has ever changed. Even HE has to wait on hold for his direct tech line, and when he does finally get through, they seem to just blow him off (at least that has been my experience).
Having said that, I'm in for writing a letter. Just let me know the contact info for someone on the inside. I have much first person input. |
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Tourer
Posts: 562
SC, Bluffton | donetracey - 2009-06-17 12:14 PM
HMMM. I thought that by filling out my "Customer Satisfaction" survey WAS letting Victory know what I think. Which was apparently what 95% of the rest of you think - that Victory does a good job.
I remember having a few questionnaires all related to the dealership. On the comments section of one, I wrote I wanted one on the Product. I never got anything? My dealership is fine, but a f*&^%ing oil change every 2,500, with the last one costing $169 is ridiculas. 
Herb
Edited by g1nomad 2009-06-17 12:21 PM
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Tourer
Posts: 506
Woodland Hills, CA | I have never received a single customer satisfaction survey from Victory, or anyone else for that matter. |
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Tourer
Posts: 537
, FL United States | This sounds good, smething must be done. The only problem I see is that they know the make a great product and that we will buy it so why would they need to change? Ths is where we need for someone to take control of Vic or Palaris and say customer servie matters and we need our dealers to supoort us and our customers or we will lose them. |
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Cruiser
Posts: 50
| Glad I have Street Sport Cycles
They will and have gone to bat for me!
Glock |
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Visionary
Posts: 1350
| Higgins ALWAYS serves me as friend rather than a customer. I have been happy with how well Mark B. has organized the division and with what he has done since coming on board. When I had a problem I got a call at work to discuss the problem I had, not only once but twice.
I also have experience that not every thing coming off the production floor will be perfect but I consider how well I have been treated over the years.
Think I will send Mark B. another email to say thank you. |
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Tourer
Posts: 400
| How about meeting at the AVR? |
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Tourer
Posts: 460
Centennial, CO | What is Mark B.'s email address? |
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Tourer
Posts: 548
Mount Vernon, WA United States | I don't mean to wiz on the wiz... but I always like to have an idea of what "could" be done before I send off letters saying that "something" should be done. I offer up again... THERE ARE NO VICTORY DEALERS. There are businesses that PAY to sell Victory Products. Once the bikes and accessories are sold to the dealer... what can Victory possibly do? They (Victory) sells every bike they make, so is there really a problem? Yeah... I think the lack of a method to regulate their dealers will eventually bite them in the butt, but appearently that's just an opinion cause they've been selling ALL of their lines the same way for a long time, and they are still here and doing well.
I'm sure writing a letter would make me feel better too, but in reality.. we'll get the standard "we are working on it." I do believe they are. One of the reasons there are more "mega shops" selling Victory is likely because they have raised the buy in high enough to where "hopefully" only those who plan to produce are buying in. Of course... they are buying in with other people's money anyway.. so who knows..
So keeping in mind that they already sell every bike they build or in other words they meet their own goals and the goals of their investors...... what is the incentive to change? What could they change?
Just playing devils advocate here...
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Iron Butt
Posts: 1158
Richmond, Virginia | All great comments. Thanks guys, So off the top of my head, if we compiled a letter from each of you. Then made copies of each letter, then took each bundle of letters and mailed the grouping so each executive from the top down to the district reps. I think that in itself would bring about at least some inner corporate discussion "hey bob, I just got this huge honking pile of concern letters from Victory owners all across the country, its the damndest thing". "oh yeah ME TOO, i just got a huge pile of letters as well." hey, this is mark, I just got a huge pile of letters etc etc etc if one person receives all the letters its easily moved aside, if 4-5 powerheads all get the same letters, then that is hard to overlook. The one thing that I strongly agree with in some of your responses, is the content of the letters. They need to be specific in nature, no generalities, no bitchy whiney "my mechanics hands were dirty" letters. Perhaps we as a group could come up with a basic format for letter writing so that there would be continuity in
each of the letters. I know that the company that I work for has 13 stores in the country, if one customer contacts our CEO, we ALL hear about it. So what if 100 people each contact 6 of their top heavy weights... what thinks you guys and sorry for pissing in the morning coffee but sometimes ya gotta do what ya gotta do... Mac. |
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Iron Butt
Posts: 725
Reno County, KS | Wizard523 - 2009-06-17 11:20 AM
My dealer sells a full line of Polaris products, and says that the problems we are having with Victory are consistent with all Polaris products, and have been since the beginning. Further, he says that even though they are always telling him "we know and are working on it", nothing has ever changed. Even HE has to wait on hold for his direct tech line, and when he does finally get through, they seem to just blow him off (at least that has been my experience).
Having said that, I'm in for writing a letter. Just let me know the contact info for someone on the inside. I have much first person input.
Same here. I was just talking to a shop owner that was closing out her Polaris stuff becuase she won't deal with Polaris anymore. I was hoping to catch a local dealership getting into the Victory scene and I was told it wasn't going to keep the Polaris offroad. No one seems to want to deal with Polaris one way or another. Oh but... "They watch these forums". Yeah right, for what? For a good laugh? If I were in Polaris support management, I'd be wearing my blinders 24/7 just to sleep at night too. |
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Visionary
Posts: 3006
San Antonio, TX | I am concerned that Victory is boasting about "95% Victory Ownership Satisfaction" since the source of the 95% number is an open forum that anyone can write a review on.
You do not even need a motorcycle to write a review. All you need is a little literacy and a computer.
If you want look for yourself. http://tinyurl.com/Victory95
This is not a JD Powers report, it is an open forum. If you were a "Victory Hater" (and there are a few on the Internet), you could go there and write really bad reviews all day long.
I am surprised that Victory Marketing would use this source for selling their motorcycles.
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Iron Butt
Posts: 742
North Orange County CA | Large industries like Polaris rely on investors for capital, especially when credit dries up. Polaris stock closed today at $29.25 (the 52 week high was $54.26)
Perhaps if everyone who's upset about dealer/factory support bought a 5-10 shares of Polaris stock and let the company know that they were going to send someone like VaParadox to the next stock holders meeting, and a stockholder Victory owner to every other Victory public event to let investors and potential customers know how poorly their current customers viewed their dealer network and service it might have more impact than just a letter writing campaign.
Hell it might even be be fun in a Jerry Rubin / Abbie Hoffman kind of way.
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Cruiser
Posts: 247
| tarpits that's the best idea yet. personally it's my dealer who has kept me from selling the p.o.s. snowmobile/vision that victory passed off as a 22,000+ motorcycle. now that they actually fixed almost all the crap victory fought/refused to fix i am starting to enjoy the ride. thank you to trumbauers in quakertown, pa.
now if they can just get the left bag to align AND lock..... |
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Puddle Jumper
Posts: 43
CASHTON, WI United States | AS A POLARIS DEALER (ATV/RANGER/SNOWMOBILE) I AGREE WITH MY VICTORY DEALER WHEN HE SAID THAT YOU HAVE TO BE VERY SURPRIZED THAT THE VICTORY PRODUCT IS COMING FROM THE SAME MANUFACTURER OF THE PRODUCTS THAT I GET FROM THEM. FIT AND FINISH, RECALLS, AND GENERAL PROBLEMS WITH THE BIKES ARE CONSIDERABLE LESS THAN THE OTHER PRODUCT LINES.
SO CHANGING THE COMPANY MINDSET WILL BE AN UPHILL BATTLE. THE 95% APPROVAL RATING IN THE ADVERTISING DID COME FROM JD POWER, NOT PSN WEBSITE. PSN IS A COMPANY THAT IS RECOMMENDED TO THE DEALERS TO HELP THEM WITH THEIR INDIVIDUAL WEBSITE.
EACH DEALERSHIP IS OWNED AND OPPERATED TO MAKE MONEY. IF YOUR DEALERSHIP IS NOT MEETING YOUR EXPECTIONS THE OWNER IS THE PLACE TO GO. LET THEM KNOW WHAT YOU ARE UNPLEASED WITH. IF THEY CAN/WANT TO KEEP YOU AS A CUSTOMER THEY WILL DO SO. TO MANY DEALERSHIPS HAVE THE FLOOR TRAFFIC TO FORGET ABOUT THE CURRENT CUSTOMER AND KEEPING THEM HAPPY. DEVELOP A RELATIONSHIP AND THE DEALERSHIP EXPERIENCE WILL IMPROVE.
THE OWNER HAS TO DEAL WITH POLARIS (YOU NEED TO ORDER X BIKES, AND THEY ARE YOURS NO MATTER WHAT... OH AND PAY FOR THEM OR PAY INTEREST TO US). THE CUSTOMERS AND THE EMPLOYEES. GIVE THEM A CHANCE TO EARN YOUR BUSINESS. IF THEY DON'T TELL THEM AND GO ELSEWHERE. THE INTERNET IS FULL OF DEALERS THAT WILL SELL YOU WHAT YOU NEED/ WANT.
QUESTIONIARS ARE GENERATED BY WARRANTY CLAIMS. THE MAJORITY OF THE QUESTIONAIR IS A WAY FOR POLARIS TO RATE THE DEALERSHIP. GENERALLY ONLY 5 QUESTIONS ARE EVALUATED.
SORRY FOR THE RANT BUT MIES HAD SOME GREAT POINTS AND ULTIMATELY THE ONLY CHANGE THAT WILL BE MADE IS WHEN THE MONEY STOPS FLOWING.
KEVINX WOULD BE MORE ABLE TO ANSWER THIS, BUT I DON'T BELIEVE THAT THERE IS ALOT OF SERVICE DOLLARS GENERATED FROM VICTORY SERVICE. |
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Visionary
Posts: 1484
LaPorte,Tx. | Do you think Victory wants dealers to treat customers poorly? That just does not make sense. Is Polaris/Victory hard to deal with, yes, I've talked to two owners dealers over the last three years, one quit, one has found a way to stay in it, it's tuff.
I think they have too many dealers and that is why some of us get poor service for your Victory. In the Houston area there are 4 million people, how may Visions were sold in this 100 mile radius in 2008. I'm going to say based on conversations with dealers, less than 40, and there are 4 dealers, that is not a lot, some dealers here only got 5 Visions for the whole year. So, with the low sale volume for Victory and high sales in other motorcycles, ATV, Watercraft, Lawn mowers, chain saws, generators,......, to make ends meet, then Victory is back seated. Then when folks like us thinking they should be like flipping over backwards for a few bikes and Victory giving them a hard time, they are less interested. Good service for us is not going to happen often or quickly. We are going to have to suffer through this and pick the dealers that work with us the most, and there are a few. Write a letter if you think it will help, it may!
Edited by VisionTex 2009-06-17 9:38 PM
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Cruiser
Posts: 177
| Well i'm 34 and i've owned 9 Polaris products, 2 Victorys, 1 Sportsman and 6 sleds. I never ever had one single bad expierence deling with the quad or my sleds, and let's face it sleds are WAY MORE high maitenence than any motorcycle is. I t saddens me that this branch of Polaris...... well......basically SUCKS to deal with. |
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Visionary
Posts: 8144
New Bohemia, VA | I guess we all wish for a lot things when it comes to Victory Motorcycles, but they must be doing something right. They sell enough to continue the product and dispite the preceived numbers of dissatisfied customers here on the forum, (which by the way is a very small percentage in comparison to the rest of the Vision and Victory populus) Polaris and the investors still stand behind Victory as they have for the past 10 years and even in a tough economy.
I for one absolutely love this machine, and I don't say that about my stuff ever, but Victory got it right with the Vision in spite of a few quarks. I have a rode road machine and it does exactly what I wanted it to. If I had a show piece I'd sock another 20 or 30K into the bike and make it that.
I'm hoping by the weekend to get my popping issue resolved, but I just don't know. According to about 90% of the folks here says that it is gizmo related, I think it is because it has leaks, but I'll see by the weekend. From that, I'll be happy as a pig in mud in town as when I'm on the open road....
....now where did I put that stinkin' wheel spacer......
Edited by varyder 2009-06-18 4:59 AM
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Visionary
Posts: 8144
New Bohemia, VA | VisionTex you hit on something that I've not thought about before. Polaris, I'm assuming works a targeted marketing stradegy based off of there other product lines. I think that may be a carry over to Victory as I see concentration of Victory dealers in certain areas and not others. Now, I'm not saying that Victory itself is necessarily doing this as I agree as well as Miles Victory has no dealers, just resellers. They look for where they think the market will prevail.
This may sound like 101 stuff, but I don't think that Polaris/Victory is applying motorcycle selling stradegy, but sports vehicle selling stradegy at this point. That is, they are leaving up to those who want to sell to determine if they have the market, this is a franchise mentality where the actual parent company has no risk. Ridersville in Berkley springs has Polaris lines to include Victory. Their market is ATVs and the such, but they seem to have some sucess with Victory, but is the only game in town for miles. Their show room consist of one row of Victory motorcycles and a sea of ATV' with about 1:20 ratio.
Just about an hour away, what I thought to be a sucessful Victory Dealer, Motosports of Winchester, no longer sells Victorys. Well, while they did sell Victory, they were also selling the cheaper Triumphs and other bikes. So if you want to ride and can't afford a Victory, what do you get? To me, Victory often becomes AVON to some "dealers" as it sits on the shelf and they hope you'll buy it because they have paid for this stuff already.
If Victory would do a market analysis, and I'm sure they have, and apply it to a motorcycle market stradegy, I think we would have Victory dispersed more logically and with an increase of popularity would begin to pop up more across the country in a more even fashion. I have one of the few true dealers in this nation right next door. They do not sell anything but Victory. They no longer work on Harleys and if there is another bike in there it is on consignment. To me when it comes to Victory this is very rare. Yet, despite their absolute loyality, they too have trouble with Victory but they are trying harder to become experts in what they do.
I think as owners who really love our Victorys, is do your best to support the dealer from a customer standpoint. When they are getting it from both sides, disgruntled customers and lack of response from Victory they throw up their hands and say forget it.
I wish I knew otherwise how to crack the Victor nut, as I sent a letter once requesting some information and they returned with a letter response that was totally unrelated to what I was asking. It's sort of like Oz where no one get's to see the wizard. |
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Cruiser
Posts: 204
guelph ontario | I have written to Victory (Polaris) on many occasions-what do you get back-the go talk to the dealer letter. Seems that all are pointing the finger is a giant circle. Makes me dizzy-not that its too hard to begin with.
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Tourer
Posts: 548
Mount Vernon, WA United States | It is so sad to read that Carl (Winchester) no longer sells Victory. That's a statement-and-a-half on so many levels. |
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Visionary
Posts: 8144
New Bohemia, VA | Miles - 2009-06-18 1:40 PM
It is so sad to read that Carl (Winchester) no longer sells Victory. That's a statement-and-a-half on so many levels.
I've only stopped in there about maybe 3 times, the last time is when I found out. But I understand he was one of the first to take on Victory when they first came out. If so, that is a sad statement. |
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Tourer
Posts: 548
Mount Vernon, WA United States | He was one of the VERY first. He invested in the signage, the floor space etc... nearly a year before he saw the first bike. I could tell some stories about what he had to put up with for the privilege (sarcastic) of selling their bikes. hwy27guy hit the nail on the head (even if it was in all caps and hard to read). All of letters in the world to Victory, while may make you feel better, are NOT going to where the problem is, nor are they going to anyone who can do anything about how someone else chooses to run their business. |
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Let me pee in everyones morning coffee.