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Visionary
Posts: 3006
San Antonio, TX | Today I recorded on my DVR "The New American Thunder" from the Speed Channel and posted the dyno numbers below.
I was really surprised by the HP and Torque numbers posted from a stock 2009 HD Touring Class bike. (Street Glide)
Even after the 103 kit and the exhaust, air and fuel controller I was shocked.
Are these numbers low because of the valve count? Two per cylinder verses four valves per cylinder for the Freedom engine? What other basic differences am I missing in the different designs?
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The numbers.
They had the dyno numbers from a stock 2009 Street Glide (810 pounds wet). 58.70 Max HP and 71.64 Max Torque.
After new pipes, Air intake and fuel controller and a 103 ci upgrade the numbers for the 2009 Street Glide were 79.73 Max HP and 93.57 Max Torque. This was done at Vance and Hines on their dyno so I am sure that the bike was "Dialed In".
Now lets see the Vision numbers.
A Vision tour weighs in at about 892 pounds wet.
Newfie's stock Vision has dyno numbers 82 Max HP and 99 Max Torque.
Cw1115 has posted S1L1 numbers 82 Max HP and 101 Max Torque.
I have also see reviews of the Vision at 85 Max HP and 102 Max Torque.
This does not even include the numbers from the Freedom 106 Stage 2 cam setup with air and fuel controller which are 110+ HP and 110+ Torque.
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Visionary
Posts: 2118
Pitt Meadows, BC Canada | And throw in the cost of the HD upgrade - you could buy a second bike for those $$$ - and tow it thru the 1/4 mile and still whup the HD. |
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Visionary
Posts: 8144
New Bohemia, VA | Hey, I can hear someone telling an HDer the smack down numbers of the Freedom engine and the HDer saying "Yeah, but that don't count, it's not a Harley." 
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Visionary
Posts: 3006
San Antonio, TX | I have heard it stated many times that the engine is an air pump. Is the valve count per cylinder the primary factor of the different performance numbers? What else makes the Freedom engine a strong performer?
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Visionary
Posts: 1340
Gainesville Fl Home of the Gators | Lots of things here.
Push rods make for inconsistant valve timing
HD intakes are a common plenum, and not indivirual runners
Intake, and exhaust port angles are chosen to maintain the traditional look, but pretty much suck for performance
45 degrees while easy to deal with is a poor choice for cyl banking, and the crank ppin angle works against itself for several degrees of rotation |
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Iron Butt
Posts: 742
North Orange County CA |
Vance and Hines is located here in southern California. Any brand new stock motorcycle that V&H dyno tested would most likely be a bike equipped with California specific emissions equipment; which unfortunately for HD owners (and I suspect Victory Vision owners as well) includes a "California Cam".
The result of these cams is a significant reduction in power for California motorcycles, as a result the 59hp dyno test looks very low to the rest of the world, it also make the upgrades seem much more effective which is good marketing.
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Tourer
Posts: 523
seattle, wa | Someone needs to post a cutaway pic of the 106 freedom so we can see the inner workings. I've searched the net but haven't found anything. |
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Visionary
Posts: 1340
Gainesville Fl Home of the Gators | BTW while the stock numbers look a little low on the bike vs a 49 state bike; the 103 is pitifully low. Most 103 builds end up in the 100/100 arena. Here is a good cross section of HD charts from real bikes. When looking at these chart note that many of them are artificially bumped up by using either STD as a correction factor, or smoothing set way down[look for wiggly lines] These tricks can add 10/10 to the real numbers http://www.nightrider.com/biketech/hplist_twin_cam.htm |
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Engine Design Question