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Cruiser
Posts: 226
on the edge of Los Angeles | New issue has come about and am asking if anyone else has had. Bike cold, starts fine idle @ 1200 or so drive away no issues. Stop after riding for 20 minutes idling around 1000 and turn off bike. Restart and the idle wont go below 1500. Try blipping & restarting still stays until ridden for some time or run up real hard for a couple of gears then returns to 1000. Cleaned IAC, no change. Reseated PCM and Engine Harness connectors. TMAP/ATS issue? 30+ K miles S1 L2 |
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Cruiser
Posts: 106
L.I., N.Y. | JSP if you want half way thru this post we discuss this problem hope it helps. http://www.vision-riders.com/bb/forums/thread-view.asp?tid=3001&pos... |
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Cruiser
Posts: 152
Litchfield Park, AZ | Yes, I just experienced this several times on a 3000+ mile trip to Key West. I found a VERY simple solution that worked every single time for me: just simply shut the bike back off and then restart. When I did this it always went back to 1200 RPM idle. Blipping the throtle never fixed the problem. |
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Visionary
Posts: 8144
New Bohemia, VA | are you using the kill switch or turning off with the key? Also, do you let it idle for a few seconds before shut down? I'm only asking to help establish a possible solution. phoenix9 solution has fixed any electronic issue i have had. it is like rebooting the home computer after spending hours trying to fix a problem, only find a simple reboot brings it back to normal. |
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Cruiser
Posts: 238
SF Bay Area | Jeff,
I recall in the VMC forums reading a post (V92C) 'bout reinitializing the TPS range by killing the motor with the kill switch, and then, with the ingition on (kill switch set to run) cycling the throttle through the entire range several times... sound familier? Don't know if this would help, but it can't hurt!
My guess it that in an attempt to keep your F/A ratio within certain parameters the "brain" is trying to lean out the bike by having a high idle. Mine does it... I ignore it.
Maybe your bike has a bad temp sensor and restarts as if it is a cold bike, even when hot?
Has your fuel consumption been bad lately? Bike running OK?
Edited by buddahead 2009-10-21 10:54 AM
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Cruiser
Posts: 226
on the edge of Los Angeles | Normal operation is to use kill swith and then turn key. I have tried both ways with the same result. I have a strong belief that the PCM is telling the IAC to be open further than needed due to information it is getting from other sensors.
Going back to when bike was new and prior to the original recall reflash for stalling issues the IAC would click 5 times when I turned off the bike post Flash it would click 3 times when I turned off the bike. Now when I turn off the bike when its @ 1500 or so it clicking 5 times.
When I had the IAC off the bike I cycled it to see what it did and the "clicking" is when it the plunger is fully retracted. I would call this the Home position. Home = plunger closest to the motor = more air thru the ports to the intake port = higher idle. My belief is that the PCM sends a fixed signal to the stepper motor of the IAC to bring it back to home. the more clicks I hear is when its closer to home prior to turning off the bike.
Overall fuel consumption is same and I do have some lean out issues 'Seat of pants" feel off idle.
Not having the Digital Wrench that Polaris's dealers use means to me going to a dealer is the probable next step. In the DIY world this is a frustating tuning issue that certain tools / tesst equipment seem to be required.
BTW I did have the S1 L2 pipe kit and flash intalled to try and remidy this and other running issues but it did not take care of them either.
I am hopefull someone that works on these could shed some additional light.
Thanks..
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Tourer
Posts: 311
Atlanta Area | JSP, when you finally figure it out, let me know. I am having the exact same issue on my 08. Started doing it on Sunday... Even after running on the superslab for 2 hours straight it idles at 1500-1700. A few minutes later it drops down to normal. I can't figure it out... |
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Cruiser
Posts: 226
on the edge of Los Angeles | 1atom12
That's in part how mine did it just kinda all of a sudden while out for a long day ride.
I removed the TMAP sensor and was able to check the temp sensor resitance and it was within the spec. I was unable to verify the map spec . If you have a manual its explained in there on the procedure. "Digital Wrench"
Cleaned the sensor with a bit of fuel for good measure re installed and no change.
So the symptoms continue with no obvious whys.
So today I changed the oil and filter cause I can!
Kevinx do you have any input?
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Cruiser
Posts: 64
| This is going to sound crazy, but make sure you battery cab;e connections are tight... particularly the negative. I had a similar problem. Then one day, the bike just wouldn't start, The negative battery cable was SLIGHTLY loose. I tightened up. Haven't had the idle problem since. |
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Visionary
Posts: 1340
Gainesville Fl Home of the Gators | Chief Waldo - 2009-10-22 11:27 PM
This is going to sound crazy, but make sure you battery cab;e connections are tight... particularly the negative. I had a similar problem. Then one day, the bike just wouldn't start, The negative battery cable was SLIGHTLY loose. I tightened up. Haven't had the idle problem since.
I'll take this one a step further, and say while you are there unhook the cables, clean the connections on both the terms, and cables. Take your time, and allow a good 10 minutes with the battery disconnected. This will reset the adaptive logic, and also ensure a good connection for charging. First thing the ECM does when it sees low charge is to jack the idle in the hope of getting more juice |
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Visionary
Posts: 2027
Brighton, TN | I agree with chiefWaldo, same problem, just like he stated. Agree also with KevinX. Loose connection and the ECM jacks the idle up, go figure. Makes sense. |
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Cruiser
Posts: 226
on the edge of Los Angeles | Thanks Chief, Kevin, and Pollolittle. I will do that tonight and while I am at it possibly pull the Battery and check its fluid level if thats even possible..
I hope it's as simple as that.. |
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Visionary
Posts: 1484
LaPorte,Tx. | JSP, the battery is sealed so you won't be able to check fluid level. After you clean up the terminals and connections, I use a thin film of battery terminal grease on all connections, you can pick that up at an auto parts store. I also do this at least twice a year. Because the battery is located in that area, it is exposed to a lot of elements. Good luck on finding the fix. |
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Cruiser
Posts: 117
Spring Hill, Tennessee | I too am having the same issue. I have only had my 09 Vision for 2 months with only 2,600 miles. It started this within the first 1,000 miles.
Thanks for the suggstions on possible solutions! It is funny how often the most complicated problems are resolved by the simplest of solutions! |
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Tourer
Posts: 311
Atlanta Area | I did exactly as Kevin said to do and pulled both cables off my battery and used a small brass wire brush to clean everything, took about 15 mins (battery was disconnected the whole time). Put everything back together, fired up the bike, reset the clock, and no more high idle!!!
Kevin, you are the man.... but you already knew that  |
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Cruiser
Posts: 117
Spring Hill, Tennessee | Well, I'm sorry to report I too did the same thing and nothing has changed. I left my battery off for about 30 minutes. Cleaned and greased up my cables as well. Stil the same idle issues.
Not sure what to do??????  |
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Visionary
Posts: 1340
Gainesville Fl Home of the Gators | Tennessee Vision - 2009-10-26 2:06 PM
Well, I'm sorry to report I too did the same thing and nothing has changed. I left my battery off for about 30 minutes. Cleaned and greased up my cables as well. Stil the same idle issues.
Not sure what to do??????
Does your throttle react normally??? Can you rotate the throttle backwards, and make thidle go down?? |
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Cruiser
Posts: 226
on the edge of Los Angeles | Well I did as others and removed inspected and cleaned both connections @ the battery with no relal change ( Other than the clock). My next move is to go further in to the other ends of the battery cables and do the same thing.
BTW changing the oil did not fix it either LOL
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Visionary
Posts: 8144
New Bohemia, VA | If it is related to a voltage issue to the fuel gizmo's I would take a moment and find all the ones related to them, then unplug and plug them back in to make sure they have a good connection also. If that fails to improve anything, I would assume the Wrench dianostics tool at the dealer should pinpoint the issue, right Keven? |
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Visionary
Posts: 1340
Gainesville Fl Home of the Gators | varyder - 2009-10-26 4:59 PM
I would assume the Wrench dianostics tool at the dealer should pinpoint the issue, right Keven?
If only it worked like that Varider |
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Visionary
Posts: 1340
Gainesville Fl Home of the Gators | varyder - 2009-10-26 4:59 PM
I would assume the Wrench dianostics tool at the dealer should pinpoint the issue, right Keven?
If only it worked like that Varider |
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Cruiser
Posts: 117
Spring Hill, Tennessee | kevinx - 2009-10-26 1:32 PM
Tennessee Vision - 2009-10-26 2:06 PM
Well, I'm sorry to report I too did the same thing and nothing has changed. I left my battery off for about 30 minutes. Cleaned and greased up my cables as well. Stil the same idle issues.
Not sure what to do??????
Does your throttle react normally??? Can you rotate the throttle backwards, and make thidle go down??
The throttle does react normally. The only way I have been able to get the idle back down to normal is to hold the front brake, release the clutch into the friction zone, and hold the bike in position at a stop for just a second. Then after squeezing the clutch again, the idle is normal, until I turn the throttle again?
It is very strange? This only happens right after the inital warm up period. After I have been riding the bike for an hour or two, it never happens?
I will try whatever you suggest. The dealer is lost as well and says "it is not crticial and might work itself out". That's the wrong thing to say to this "type A" personality!!!!
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Visionary
Posts: 2027
Brighton, TN | what about the throttle realignment procedure or something like that. Seems I remember there is a way to re learn throttle position. |
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Visionary
Posts: 1340
Gainesville Fl Home of the Gators | pollolittle - 2009-10-27 11:24 AM
what about the throttle realignment procedure or something like that. Seems I remember there is a way to re learn throttle position.
The proceedure is the relearn for the cruise, and you may very well be on the right track. The cruise could be holding the throttle up |
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Iron Butt
Posts: 935
Rockford, IL | Here is a link for the cruise relearn that Kevin mentions....
http://www.vision-riders.com/bb/forums/thread-view.asp?tid=1245&pos... |
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Cruiser
Posts: 117
Spring Hill, Tennessee | I will give it a try and report back. Raining now in Nashville, so I will have to test the results on another day?
Thanks for the suggestion! |
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Cruiser
Posts: 226
on the edge of Los Angeles | Update on my bike and possible solutions. Thanks to all who have contributed on this topic. Thru all of this the starting voltage on battery is @ 12.9 after starting bike volt guage works its way back to 14.3 or so
I have cleaned and checked and reassembled both ends of both + & - battery cables. In the process I wounded the main circuit breaker at the 12volt possitve cable end. So I even replaced that part. BTW NAPA has a replacement BK 782-3116. I found a ever slight amount of residue at the contact point for the negative cablee on the engine case Possibly soap residue? Reassembled and did the cruise control home adjustment. Went for ride to market and when I came out to restart it did it again. Ran down the road a bit and went back to normal. Pulled into home shut down and restarted moments later and it was back. I did the mentioned trick of loading the bike against the clutch for a few seconds ad the idle did then come back down. I am somewhat convinced that its due to the PCM programming / flash and can only hope when I take it in for service to fix this issue I can get some positive results. Kevinx: Since I have what is supposed to be the S1 L2 download. what would the performance hit be if I have it flashed back to the original stock map? To recap on another post I did after the "Recall Refalsh back in sept 08 " The bike behaved quite different on decel @ 1500 rpm it immediatly started to lunge forward as if I am "blipping the throttle" This all may be coincedence but 1500 rpm seems to have magical thing about it.. So possible update will be in two weeks after I have one of my favorite dealers in Vegas give it look.
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Visionary
Posts: 1340
Gainesville Fl Home of the Gators | The maps have been re-done a half dozen times since the recall. If you go to the dealer during the week, and drop your bike they can send a "Service Report", and prolly get an autho for a remap with a newer version. Don't hold me to it, but you can try |
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Cruiser
Posts: 226
on the edge of Los Angeles | Final Update!
It's FIXED...
The problem was simple. "New Battery"
The rpms a due to the system trying to replenish what was lost after a restart...
Mine was an early 08 model. The battery was about 2 years old.
I thought it was going to be something more than that so I had it at the dealer to perform the checks. They sent the issue to Victory for their review and all they had to say was install a new battery. The techs were a bit baffled by the fix too. The end result is that the bike is now back to normal.
To everyone, if you encounter this type of problem and the battery is more then 18 months old go out and get a new battery and install it prior to making any other service actions. If its not the battery then you are only out less than $100 and are eliminated an item that can cause a whole lot of grief.
I got a dealer battery that is same make as what was in the bike but would have rather installed an agm style. I will do that the next time around.
Thanks for all the tips from everyone...
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Visionary
Posts: 8144
New Bohemia, VA | Thanks for the update JSP, it is always the simplist problems that we overlook that is the fix. I'm on 24 months of my battery and I think it is time to change it out before the winter hits hard. |
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Fast Idle after warm up anyone?