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Visionary
Posts: 8144
New Bohemia, VA | I read the so call Cross Country review and all I saw was, the Vision is a bad thing. I might be bias, but if you're trying to keep all lines alive, why would you allow a critique on the website (VRA) of one bike you just brought out, to diss the previous bike you just brought out.
And sorry, but I hear a typical harley rider talking also, as he gets his CC and then he has to MOD it to suit him all the while trying an insult another bike.
Read what you like, but I read Victory trying to sell the Vision out and sheeping it by not being innovated, but following the herd with innovation. Grant it, the Victory's frame work engineering is set apart, but they are wanting to make sure they have "the look".
overreaction, bias, say what ever you want, but that's what I read. Notice it is from the average joe, I just bought a motorcycle. They never called anyone after they got the Vision, the reviews came from insiders on the VRA if I recall.
Anyway, forum fodder awaits.... |
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Tourer
Posts: 576
, IA | ya i felt the same way after viewing the cd they sent titles 2010 victory tour |
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Iron Butt
Posts: 935
Rockford, IL | Ok....I've spent the last 15 minutes looking thru the VRA site and I can't find anything remotely close to what you are talking about. Any chance you can post a link to this review? Or can you copy the text of it and post it here? |
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Visionary
Posts: 8144
New Bohemia, VA | sorry, there's a link in the cross-rider.com announcement thread. I'm on my phone and not my computer. |
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Visionary
Posts: 2118
Pitt Meadows, BC Canada | Chris - you and me aren't buying another Vision. The fewer Victory makes, the rarer ours become - and in my opinion, the more attractive.
Kinda like - the more customizing the VV owners do - the more custom my STOCK VV looks. I don't want to see another Vision on ANY of my rides (unless I am off to meet a fellow owner). My attitude is: "I GOT MINE!!!" - and Victory can stop selling them anytime.
And who gives a RATZ-ASS what the ignoramuses think??? I just care what I think - and I love to soak up the admiration of the crowds that gather every time I stop.
Yah, I know - blah blah blah.... I just don't think we need to worry. |
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Visionary
Posts: 8144
New Bohemia, VA | don, you know my early posts! The vision is made just for me mantra still stands. I just never figured victory would eat one of its own so soon. I concur with not seeing another vision but when I do I can see what I'm missing when I'm riding down the road. It was cool to see Fedor from PA a few mornings ago returning from Lobsterfest heading down the road. It took all but two secs to recognize the V taillight.
thanks for the reminder... |
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Iron Butt
Posts: 725
Reno County, KS | It's a common contradiction that I've noticed too. First the vision is supposedly becoming more marketable, then the vision is for non-traditional crowd. Now it reads like the cc is the remedy for the visions styling. |
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Cruiser
Posts: 82
| Look in any bike parking lot and count the many HD hardbaggers with fairings. There's a huge market for them and Victory needs a bike(s) that can compete there. The Cross bikes are superior to competitive HD touring models, but there's that whole challenge of your competition being a cultural phenom. Ride a Cross bike and you'll see it's distinctly different from a Vision. The Vision is still far superior in seat comfort and weather protection, and currently has more electrical possibilities than even the Cross Country. The first time I rode a Cross Country, one big thing it showed was how much more protected you are on a Vision. On a hot day, the air flow on a cruiser or Cross bike might feel great, but you'll still be fresher and more comfortable, IMHO, on a Vision, and you won't care what the weather does. There's a market segment for both the Vision and Cross bikes. |
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Visionary
Posts: 2118
Pitt Meadows, BC Canada | bigwill - NITROUS???? Geeze.... I drove Co-Pilots new Smart Car today - and actually passed some grown-up cars on the highway. Reminded me of my 1971 VW VAN - ya just learn to outsmart the bastards ! Don't need no stinkin' NITROUS !
But yah - quicker IS slicker..... what were we on about - oh yeah -
For my eyes, the new CROSS Crap design is a RETRO move - back to the PAST ! Trying to emulate HD's 1948 look. We don't put up with that kind of thinking with our cars - why the hell should we drive bikes that look 50 years old - when they are brand new?
My first ride was a Vincent Black Shadow - and it would look 'modern' today if you added disk brakes. What's up with that crap???? I applauded Victory's designers for the Vision they had - now we go backwards???? |
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Iron Butt
Posts: 725
Reno County, KS | donetracey - 2009-11-04 8:57 PM
bigwill - NITROUS???? Geeze.... I drove Co-Pilots new Smart Car today - and actually passed some grown-up cars on the highway. Reminded me of my 1971 VW VAN - ya just learn to outsmart the bastards ! Don't need no stinkin' NITROUS !
Yep Nitrous. As a matter of fact, Lloydz kit showed up yesterday, tomorrow I leave out of the country for a month so I'll be eager to get back home and get it installed.
For my eyes, the new CROSS Crap design is a RETRO move - back to the PAST ! Trying to emulate HD's 1948 look. We don't put up with that kind of thinking with our cars - why the hell should we drive bikes that look 50 years old - when they are brand new?
My first ride was a Vincent Black Shadow - and it would look 'modern' today if you added disk brakes. What's up with that crap???? I applauded Victory's designers for the Vision they had - now we go backwards????
I still maintain that the CC shuould be rebadged "Ultra Clone". Lead, follow or get out of the way: I guess they followed this time. Hell, since they're in the business of cloning Harleys, maybe they can clone the Dyna Wide Glide Springer. At least it was interesting. |
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Tourer
Posts: 495
Carrollton, TX | Don’t give too much weight to something one person wrote that is not even in a position of power at Victory. I have talked with execs at Victory and the Vision is still and will be for some time their flagship bike. It is and will continue to be the touring bike to compete with the Gold Wing, Harley Ultra and Road Glide and the BMW 1200LT. It provides a lot of important features that are not on the cross country which many of you have listed in your posts. The cross country is also a great bike but intended to compete against different models such as the Harley street glide and suited for a different rider. Another analogy is the first born son who has had all the attention feels a little slighted when his new born sister starts getting the attention he got a few years earlier. This does not take away from his prominence as the male and first born. Also remember the Vision makes up about 50% of Victory’s total motorcycle sales volume after only two years on the market. You sure aren’t going to kill that goose laying golden eggs and garnering all the attention it has. The Vision has gotten more press than all the prior Victory’s combined. |
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Visionary
Posts: 2118
Pitt Meadows, BC Canada | Damn - Spock .... you make this thread sound - well ... - sensible. UGHHH
There - I said it. |
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Visionary
Posts: 1350
| Spock, Thanks. I listened to Black Sabbath at 78 RPM and saw God........ Guess we can read anything we want out of something. |
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Fountain Inn, SC United States | RedRider - 2009-11-05 4:55 AM
Spock, Thanks. I listened to Black Sabbath at 78 RPM and saw God........ Guess we can read anything we want out of something.
RedRider - leave it to you to still HAVE a turntable old enough to play 78's.
All - I'm with Scribe and Spock. There are definite distinctions between the Cross bikes and the Vision, both technically and culturally. Victory, being a business, is out to get both markets. The Cross bikes will tend to attract those riders who are looking for a more conventional (some say Retro) style. Nonetheless, in both the Vision & Cross- bikes, the Victory touch" is clear. Victory has done a great job branding themselves with a certain styling flair that is precent on all their models—even the more conventional look of the Cross bikes. That's one of the things that set Victory apart from the other manufacturers. |
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Visionary
Posts: 8144
New Bohemia, VA | okay, okay, maybe Victory is not trying to kill the Vision. It just strikes me as odd that they (VRA) would post a review by someone dissing another Victory. Victory is being wise to appeal the market regardless how any one individual feels. Trends always seems to go retro for some reason, notice the number of folks, young and old wearing the old converse shoes or dressing '70's. All that is part of the culture and there are some of us that choose to be different and others just can't help it.
A lot of folks here are critical of some of the Vision reviews when compared to other bikes that show the Vision clearly superior but get's second best because of styling. Certainly I thought there would be an outrage over it occuring within camp Victory.
My mom and dad have an old crank victrola and records to go along with it. If you want to turn down the volume, you just shut the little doors that emit the sound. |
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Visionary
Posts: 1484
LaPorte,Tx. | Victory makes stylish bikes, this pretty much started in '03 when the first Vegas was released and carries on through today. I believe styling is very important to Victory when they produce a bike. Did they go overboard with styling on the Vision, some folks believe that is true, even a major bike magazine contributor calls the styling "Absurd". For me it is probably the main thing that made me make the purchase...it is my hope that Victory continues producing bikes with break through styling.
Here is my lean on it and I think Victory knows this too! Take 100 bikes, Ultras, Glides, RK's, Cross Bikes, Kingpins, Vegas, Hammers, etc. and mix them all up and put them in one big room. Then put one "10th" Anny and one Ness Street in the room with them. Turn loose 1000 people (bikers, and non-bikers) to look at all 102 bikes at the same time, which two bikes are going to get most the attention? Most people will gravitate to what is different, even though they may not like it...the Visions will steal the show. When I had my Kingpin which is a darn good looking bike, NO ONE took pictures of me while riding down the road. The Kingpin did not produce CB chatter from the truckers. The Vision is a life changing bike, the other 100 are not, I would really be pissed if Victory kills the Vision. If they did, I would probably buy two right away to carry me through. |
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Visionary
Posts: 3204
Memphis | I believe the Vision will be around as long as Victory itself. It will morph into several generations (like the Vette) but will always be the flagship luxotourer. It is too groundbreaking on so many levels (not to mention the 6 years/$20 million invested) to be just a one shot deal in the history of the company. Anything Victory puts out after the Vision will seem like a step backwards towards conventionality and traditional styling. The fact is, the Cross bikes are safe. There is nothing controversial about them. They are well-styled, premium baggers that fill a niche for certain riders. Are they a threat to the Vision? I don't think so. |
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Cruiser
Posts: 266
Hartland, , WI | VisionTex - 2009-11-05 9:02 AM
Victory makes stylish bikes, this pretty much started in '03 when the first Vegas was released and carries on through today. I believe styling is very important to Victory when they produce a bike. Did they go overboard with styling on the Vision, some folks believe that is true, even a major bike magazine contributor calls the styling "Absurd". For me it is probably the main thing that made me make the purchase...it is my hope that Victory continues producing bikes with break through styling.
Here is my lean on it and I think Victory knows this too! Take 100 bikes, Ultras, Glides, RK's, Cross Bikes, Kingpins, Vegas, Hammers, etc. and mix them all up and put them in one big room. Then put one "10th" Anny and one Ness Street in the room with them. Turn loose 1000 people (bikers, and non-bikers) to look at all 102 bikes at the same time, which two bikes are going to get most the attention? Most people will gravitate to what is different, even though they may not like it...the Visions will steal the show. When I had my Kingpin which is a darn good looking bike, NO ONE took pictures of me while riding down the road. The Kingpin did not produce CB chatter from the truckers. The Vision is a life changing bike, the other 100 are not, I would really be pissed if Victory kills the Vision. If they did, I would probably buy two right away to carry me through.
+1
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Cruiser
Posts: 266
Hartland, , WI | SongFan - 2009-11-05 10:25 AM
I believe the Vision will be around as long as Victory itself. It will morph into several generations (like the Vette) but will always be the flagship luxotourer. It is too groundbreaking on so many levels (not to mention the 6 years/$20 million invested) to be just a one shot deal in the history of the company. Anything Victory puts out after the Vision will seem like a step backwards towards conventionality and traditional styling. The fact is, the Cross bikes are safe. There is nothing controversial about them. They are well-styled, premium baggers that fill a niche for certain riders. Are they a threat to the Vision? I don't think so.
+1 |
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Visionary
Posts: 8144
New Bohemia, VA | I can't say for sure either way, but the 6 years of development was not necessarily to create the Vision, but to create the platform the cross bikes and vision shares. The TC is one great looking bike and would have been my choice, even over a cross if it was made available today but they axed it.
if you examine the cross bikes you'll also see the skeleton that the vision hides so well. I actually feel this detracts from the cross bikes but only at certain angles. On the road you would not be able to catch it but standing in the show room I had to stand to not see framework so I could be objective to its look. Though I know that the cross bikes will and does catch the eye of many and they'll be smitten with it, I spent more time admiring the vegas low, something I do nearly every time I stop by the dealer. |
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Iron Butt
Posts: 600
Linwood, MI | "I really like the looks of it," he said. "I had really gotten excited about buying a Victory Vision, but that's the ugliest dang thing I ever laid my eyes on. [The Victory Vision is] a great bike if you can ride with your eyes closed.
"The Cross Country is more traditional and I like its looks."
That's the quote from the article in question. I remember when the Vision was being launched and one of the developers mentioned that they wanted a bike that people either loved or hated. This guy apparently hated it. So what? If everyone had the same taste, every motorcycle would look exactly the same.
Frankly, I take his comments the same as I do when Harley guys tell me how fugly my bike is. I just shrug and smile, content in the knowledge that, yea though I ride through the shadow of the Valley of Death, I will fear no evil for the Vision is the baddest mother in the valley.
He may think his bike is prettier than mine (which is fine...), but when it's pouring rain outside or when the temps in Sweet Home Alabama dip down into the 30s for the month of winter and his bike is sitting in the garage, I'll still be out riding mine and racking up miles with a smile on my face.  |
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Iron Butt
Posts: 725
Reno County, KS | I dunno, I still get confused trying to figure out what they are getting at in these interviews. This is probably why most large companies designate a specific person to handle PR and interviews. In retrospect, these articles popping up seem to be with different individuals (mostly associated with the Engineering team). If you put any two of them together for a single interview, they'd probably argue. LOL I realize now that some of the responses printed in the articles are more opinion than solid facts. |
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Visionary
Posts: 1436
| I tend to ride and not read these sorts of articles/interviews. Lets face it they'll say anything to pomo something new, thats business. However also wouldn't be the first time Victory ate its own young to promote a newer model........ |
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Is Victory trying to kill the Vision?