|
|
Fountain Inn, SC United States | Just for discussion, let's say Victory had to choose between filling preorders on Cross bikes or making a small number of rideable demo bikes for the traveling demo rides. With limited production of Cross bikes, let's say 5 of all the 25 bikes(of all models) they make in a day (admittedly, I am guessing at the numbers), creating a Cross-bike demo fleet would take about 3-4 days of production, about 12 -18 bikes total for the 2 demo trucks and other corporate demo events.
Filling preorders would make guaranteed customers happy and spur cashflow through dealerships, most likely leading to more dealer inventory orders. This would indirectly translate to more revenue from floorplan interest. The downside of this decision would mean no rideable demos for this model. Only those buyers who are likely to buy based on print, word-of-mouth, or impulse would drive sales.
Alternatively, diverting production to make a demo fleet would probably get more people interested in these models. Getting people on them would result in actual orders. Victory has realized that the demo rides have been the best marketing tools for getting the word out and acquiring orders. Since the demo rides generally happen at dealers, interested buyers are funneled through the dealer right after a demo ride. The downside of this decision is that there could be disgruntled buyers who have put down a deposit and are anxiously waiting for delivery but see that anyone with a license could ride one for free. Bad press (like forum posts) from waiting buyers might harm sales.
If you were Victory, which route would you decide and why? How do you justify the downside of your decision?
|
|
| |
|
Tourer
Posts: 363
Goldsboro, NC | You need to build a demo fleet to drive future sales. If you do not, the downside of not having the demo fleet lasts indefinitely.
If you delay preorders by 3-4 days, the downside lasts for 3-4 days, plus the student factor gives the assemblers a little practice to work through the assembly process bugs, of which there are always a few on a new model. The preorder customers get a bike with fewer bugs.
They might resent the week delay a bit, but if you give them the fewer bug argument, they will understand and might even appreciate it.
My $0.02 |
|
| |
|
Visionary
Posts: 8144
New Bohemia, VA | why would I answer this question? I'm compelled to though. The production should go toward the ordered bikes putting the demo secondary. However, Victory's sparsness lends to it's own dilemna and really makes no diff at this time of year for most of the country would even need a demo ride. Those who back out the pre-order would put demo inventory at the dealer. Apparently you know something Jeffery (or is Jeffrey, or just Jeff, Jedi, but not JAM) the rest of us don't.
When I bought my Vision, I will say the demo did not push me over the top, I was already there reading about. I put a deposit down for later, but it had nothing to do with the demo. With other manufacturers not offering a demo ride, for Victory it is a perk, though I'm sure it sells a few bikes.
I don't think that it would necessary be "bad press" as if I'm not into the "those are mean people so I won't buy there bike" atittude. I bought Victory in spite of any inconvinence they or the dealer creates. My butt dictates this decision, not the mind. Unless Victory totally defuncts and parts are not available they're stuck with me riding their bike. But they really don't care because they got my money and they just hope I'll buy another somewhere down the road.
Edited by varyder 2009-11-13 11:19 AM
|
|
| |
|
Visionary
Posts: 1484
LaPorte,Tx. | Victory most definately needs to get the demo bikes in the trucks. This is what puts signatures on the orders. The down side is holding up orders for those that have down payments on the bike they already have signed up for. This is selfish on my part...don't send these new bikes to a show room floor in the areas of the country that has snow on the ground and really low temperatures. A bike on the road will make a sale for them, not one sitting in a garage somewhere locked up for the winter. I hope they handle the new Cross bike delivery better than the Vision intro. Many of the early Vision owners waited a long time for delivery, but it was worth the wait.  |
|
| |
|
Visionary
Posts: 3204
Memphis | Demo Fleet. I'm not sure what percentage of overall sales the preorders comprise but most people just won't buy something that expensive without knowing for sure. A demo ride is a psychological sledge hammer. The pre-order guys will get to take a ride and that goes a long way towards patience during the wait. The demo fleet is really an investment in the guys who are 80-90% sure they are going to change bikes but have to be convinced. Going to a Victory bike is not like going from a Honda to a Yamaha. It really is a lot different than whatever else you are riding. The handling is one of the biggest surprises to anyone not educated on Victory bikes. Once they get in the saddle and really have a chance to compare, they are hooked. The ride will stick their head and when it is over, the wheels will start spinning about how to make the change. (Before the ride, it was if to make the change.) It is a great way for dealers to build a rapport with future customers and it really breaks Victory out from the pack. Even if the demo bikes have some issues, the dealers could use that to their advantage by asking for input from the riders. "These are pre-production bikes and your input is important to us. We want it right when it comes out this Fall." Huge dividends. No one else does that. |
|
| |
|
Iron Butt
Posts: 619
Southeast Iowa | Pre-Orders First!
Why build a bike for someone that wants to "try it" before those who know they want to "buy it"? If your undecided and need to ride one first than surely you can understand why you should be behind the guy that made up his mind months ago. Doing otherwise is the equivalent of "budding in line" When I bought my Vision I had to wait until the orders were filled before my dealer got one he could sell me. Did that upset me? Of course not. Now, if I put down my money and had to wait for Victory to build bikes so others could "try it" would I be mad? Hell yes! You could have done what I did but you didn't! Why should I wait on my bike so others can have a test ride? Even if you like your test ride you couldn't buy one..........you would have to order it and wait in line behind me.
My wife ordered a Cross Country and picked it up 2 weeks ago which happened to be the same day the dealer had 1 CC & 1 CR on display for people to look at. It was a special feeling to be able to ride one home when others could only look. Did I feel bad for the other riders? No, they could have made up their minds months ago (just like we did) and rode their new bike home too.
(015.JPG)
(024.JPG)
Attachments
----------------
 015.JPG (34KB - 0 downloads)
024.JPG (31KB - 0 downloads)
|
|
| |
|
Iron Butt
Posts: 1158
Richmond, Virginia | this whole topic just hurts my brain. Americans are not tollerant anymore of any natural process. We are a society beyond the
"i want it NOW" mentality. We are the society of "we want it yesterday". We have not patience for anything. We want it at our pace, our speed our price and God help you if its not perfect the first time. Whats my point here? If you are bitching about which should come first, the cart or its horse, have some patience they will both be here in February. ,,,, off to get beer. |
|
| |
|
Fountain Inn, SC United States | Just to clarify, in this hypothetical problem, Victory makes 25 bikes each day of which a max of 5 are Cross bikes. So it would take at 3-4, heck maybe 5 days, of production to create a demo fleet. I just didn't say it very well in my first post. I don't think that will change anyone's mind who's already posted. If it does, I apologize.
|
|
| |
|
Visionary
Posts: 2118
Pitt Meadows, BC Canada | DEMO? What's a DEMO???
My first ride on ANY Victory was when I picked up my VV and drove off. I was happy. My only instruction from the dealer was "Let the clutch out, pick up your feet". And that's what I did. Drove home on the hottest day of the year with my seat heater on full, and the foot controls WAY out front for my short legs - and the biggest grin on my face.
Who needs a DEMO??? |
|
| |
|
Iron Butt
Posts: 804
Perry Hall, MD | Have to vote for the demo fleet.
I did a lot of reading that generated my interest to take the tour demo ride. From what I heard the demo bikes were the same ones that were provided to media folks that wrote those reviews that convinced me that this was a bike worth looking at. Get the reviewers in the saddle, story in the mags and on line, and then let everyone else have a ride.
When I met up with the tour truck there were customers there who were waiting for bikes that they had pre-ordered. They knew when they were due to be delivered, and were pleased to have the chance to take the demo ride and let the rest of us know that they would be one of the first to get what the rest of us were looking at. |
|
| |
|
Visionary
Posts: 1350
| I lean toward the way Victory has been doing it. Let the preorders get delivered first. Word of mouth is the best advertising you can get. These owners will get more people to buy or at least go for a demo ride when available.
How many of the posters here have any sales experience? Me. :P
I was no. 1 John Deere sales for my region back in the day. The easiest fastest way to sell a JD riding mower? Make sure the wife could sit on it. She has the purse strings.
I sold 3-5 pallets of push mowers every Sunday. Sales reps could not figure out how I did it. 70% of my pushmower sales were to woman. I would let them push the mower around. Today they put the mowers on racks. The number one question from ladies is, "How heavy is it?" What does, "About 22 lbs" mean? When they could push it around they knew.
When I worked part time at the bike/ATV shop we had the cute cardboard sign showing the snowplow for the ATVs. The shop thought they did good selling 15 plows the winter before. I talked the owner into letting me put a plow on the floor when the sales manger said, "We don't need to." 3 days later he came back an apologized. we sold 45 plows the first 30 days that season. Why? Because the guys could touch it, kick it and show it to the wives. You know the ladies with the checkbook.
Remember in sales you don't think how you buy, you think how the majority buys. For every one Victory owner that did not demo ride I talk to 30 that did. I still own 2 Victorys. I took the Vision for 5 demo rides before I was sure it was what I wanted. My short legs control my buying. Lucky me I could not buy an '08. I saved and was lucky to buy Anny and she came with reverse. I may only use it 6 times a year but it's worth every single penny.
If I was to do anything different then Victory I would have a second truck with the demo bikes. After the preorders were delivered I would have the second truck loaded with demos and travel the country. Victory truck has say 8 demo bikes. The dealers can sell more bikes with zero miles which is important to many buyers and the dealers could cut down on the number of demo bikes in stock. dealers could have an open house with both trucks there. Loading the other truck with the Ness bikes and any other customs they have. Even bikes with all the accessories. As we know not all dealers carry every accessory and this way we could see them on the bikes. I think this would promote sales of custom wheels for Victory. Just my thoughts. |
|
| |
|
Cruiser
Posts: 170
Houston, TX | The proof is in the pudding. Build the demos first. JMHO |
|
| |
|
Cruiser
Posts: 208
Wichita, Kansas | Demos first!!! Then I can buy a dealer demo 2010 when the 2011's come out and get a great price!!!!! |
|
| |
|
Tourer
Posts: 548
Mount Vernon, WA United States |
If Victory believes that they can sell enough bikes between pre-orders and dealer orders (which are like pre-orders without a customer name attached) then why waste the effort of a demo bike. There are enough dealers that buy bikes to use as demo bikes, so again... why bother building demo rides.
On the other hand.. I think the traveling truck is a waste of fuel if they don't have their latest model to take a test ride. All of the current models can already be seen and tested and such at dealers..
I realize this didn't address the question... pre-orders make sense as there are plenty of dealers who re-order to use the bike for themselves as a demo. |
|
| |
|
Cruiser
Posts: 99
Kansas City, Ks | The Demo bikes can wait.. We are coming into the season where there won't be as many demo rides. Why would the tire kicking, let me think about it, I don't know.... go before the "Here's my money, where's my bike"?
How many times has someone went to buy something and heard "We are currently sold out and this is just the demo model. We can order it and call you when it comes in"? How frustrating is that? How often would you just go to a similar store and buy a similar product that was in stock; even if it was a completely different manufacture of the product all together?
Hard to complain about Dealers closing their doors, but feel it is ok to have dealers not make money on sales to wait for people to have something to only look at and maybe get.
Edited by Blue Demon 2009-11-14 8:23 AM
|
|
| |
|
Iron Butt
Posts: 619
Southeast Iowa | 11 to 11 who's going to break the tie? Let's think of this question another way....................
How would you like to be sitting in your favorite restaurant having to wait on your food because the chef is busy cooking free samples for people walking by on the sidewalk? Who should get their food 1st? The customer who already ordered or the passerby who might order after they are given a free sample. Different subject, same principal.
Edited by Big Vic 2009-11-14 10:30 AM
|
|
| |
|
Cruiser
Posts: 126
Meadow, Texas | Fill the pre-orders first. That way all of these new riders can be rolling advertisements for the Vision. Plus mine is on order and I WANT IT NOW!!!!!!!. |
|
| |
|
Fountain Inn, SC United States | Just want to keep things on track. I posed this dilemma to have you think AS IF YOU WERE VICTORY and had their business objectives in mind. Let's not mutate this discussion into something else. I'm surprised to see that so far that things are running pretty equal on both sides of the issue. It makes for good discussion.
|
|
| |
|
Cruiser
Posts: 189
Baltimore, Md | Victory is not generally considered an entry level motorcycle, so most buyers are moving over or up. To them (as with me when I bought my Vision) the idea of a demo is relatively new and unusual. None of my previous bikes offered it (about 13) and my Vision was my first demo ride. For me, the demo sealed the deal, but the deal was pretty much fully researched and decided ahead of time as with my other bikes. It was very nice to have the demo, but not vital. Considering this experience, I would suggest Victory not delay pre-orders in favor of demos. Several factors are in play, including the season, the economy and the customer.
The season is mostly off-season except in the deep south and southwest. So it makes little sense, as someone else pointed out, to have a bunch of demos sitting in areas where they won't really be ridden much due to cold. To me, the season suggests a perfect time to fill the pre-orders first and then build a demo fleet for coming spring buying. Most buyers of the XC and XR are not new riders and will make up their minds based on experience and research and word of mouth from the early customers. The economy figures in also for both customer and Victory. Customers won't be happy to spend a lot of money on a promise and see demos being used while they sit - minus their money - waiting unnecessarily. For Victory, there is more short term financial benefit to selling the bikes versus having a fleet of demos worth more than $350,000 sitting on a showroom floor. By spring, the pre-orders would likely be filled and the demos could be built and brought in for the busiest season.
In the end, as a company, you won't really piss off a customer that either didn't know about the demo possibility or doesn't expect one and therefore buys as he always did. But you may piss off a current customer who has given you his money if he sees a couple of bikes roll in and he's told "look but don't ride it home - yours will be here in a few weeks". Bottom line, fill your pre-paid orders and then build your less important demo fleet as manufacturing permits. Of course, I could be wrong - remember, I was a lookout at Pearl Harbor. |
|
| |
|
Iron Butt
Posts: 619
Southeast Iowa | Jedi Jeff - To me it seems like the thread is on track. Victory needs to keep current customers satisfied while trying to attract new customers therefore growing the business. By the way.........you don't keep current customers happy by making them wait so potential customers have something to try. There should have been plenty of pre-production bikes built for shows and special events before actual customer orders were started so that should be a non-issue. If people wanted one so bad they would have ordered one. If they are very interested but need to see one they will wait. If they are only mildly interested who cares? They will see one when they see one. By the way, more people have seen my wife's CR by riding it than ever would have seen it at the dealer.
I honestly can't believe the vote is so close. I bet if more people had money down on one and was waiting for it you would see a completely different outcome. |
|
| |
|
Visionary
Posts: 3204
Memphis | It's not about seeing one. It's about riding one. |
|
| |
|
Cruiser
Posts: 126
Meadow, Texas | Again with my 2cents. During the winter months, most people don't frequent their local shops to look at bikes. The only time they will ususally go there is if they decide they need more oil or something minor. However this time of year provides the opportunity to frequent the local bike shows. Since I moved to the DC area, winter time is great for checking out the new bikes or the show bikes with the obligatory eye candy. And of course the vendors with their new products, plus you can never have enough gloves.
Victory needs, IMHO, to really show all of their line at each and every show. This will get the people that have never heard of them in contact. Then when they are driving down the road or at their local gas station and see one, then we, the riders, can offer more of an advertisement and enticement that will supplement the time they saw it at their local bike show. But Victory needs to make a super showing at these shows and just go over the top. Then in the spring when all these possibly new buyers are looking they will drop by and take a demo on them. But if a buyer has plunked down a deposit on one - then they should be the priority. |
|
| |
|
Iron Butt
Posts: 619
Southeast Iowa | Seeing one......riding one..........whatever.
We are talking the same thing here. The subject is about demo bikes. First you would see, touch, feel, and then ride weather permitting of course. |
|
| |
|
Visionary
Posts: 1436
| I don't understand why this is even a question? My dealer ordered a number of cross bikes of each model to which he has now received one. Now he could sit it in the showroom and let everyone just look at it, or he could do what he's done and let prospective buyers ride it. NOTHING sells bikes faster than getting potential buyers in the saddle.
Now I believe most folks are like myself when it comes to purchases. They see something, read about it, look up as much info as they can and THEN go to see it in person, feel it, move it etc.... Then if they like it they buy. Not two months from now or next week but today. I damn sure don't want to go ride a bike and then get told I have to wait weeks or months to have it. when I decide I want it NOW. Call me spoiled but if I have to wait I'm gonna go buy something else. |
|
| |
|
Iron Butt
Posts: 619
Southeast Iowa | So if I understand Teach correctly it would do no good to build demo bikes for people to try. If they couldn't buy it after trying it they would move on. Now if they were allowed to purchase the demo bike that would create 2 BIG issues.
1. Demo bike gone so how does that help others that want to touch, feel, and ride.
2. The pre-order guys are still waiting on their bike while their neighbor pulls up on the one he just bought from the dealer after his demo ride.
Really..........I can't believe that 1/2 the people here rationalize that test bikes should come before paying customers. Is this concept so hard to understand? Am I off in left feild and totally missing something? I can't think of any market where product gets put on the shelf before orders are filled. The new Beetle, Mustang, Camaro, and so on all went to paying customers before dealers had them on their lot. Any business with any sense sells their product to generate revenue before they build an inventory that they finance on the floor. Having to wait on one is not always a bad thing.........it creates a buzz that can actually make the product more desirable. This was true for the cars mentioned above and happens every X-mas with toys. Anyone remember those stupid Cabbage Patch Dolls selling for way over $100 when they were only supposed to be about $30. Anyone remember used Harley's selling for more than new Harley's less than 10 years ago? It is a simple principal called "Supply and Demand" Those that buy first will be supplied first. This is true in every market in every country in the world.
I agree that dealers must have bikes on their floor for potential customers to touch, feel, and yes ride. Test rides do sell bikes and Victory must continue to do this. With that said guys............in what world do "potential buyers" come before "real buyers"? |
|
| |
|
Iron Butt
Posts: 619
Southeast Iowa | So if I understand Teach correctly it would do no good to build demo bikes for people to try. If they couldn't buy it after trying it they would move on. Now if they were allowed to purchase the demo bike that would create 2 BIG issues.
1. Demo bike gone so how does that help others that want to touch, feel, and ride.
2. The pre-order guys are still waiting on their bike while their neighbor pulls up on the one he just bought from the dealer after his demo ride.
Really..........I can't believe that 1/2 the people here rationalize that test bikes should come before paying customers. Is this concept so hard to understand? Am I off in left feild and totally missing something? I can't think of any market where product gets put on the shelf before orders are filled. The new Beetle, Mustang, Camaro, and so on all went to paying customers before dealers had them on their lot. Any business with any sense sells their product to generate revenue before they build an inventory that they finance on the floor. Having to wait on one is not always a bad thing.........it creates a buzz that can actually make the product more desirable. This was true for the cars mentioned above and happens every X-mas with toys. Anyone remember those stupid Cabbage Patch Dolls selling for way over $100 when they were only supposed to be about $30. Anyone remember used Harley's selling for more than new Harley's less than 10 years ago? It is a simple principal called "Supply and Demand" Those that buy first will be supplied first. This is true in every market in every country in the world.
I agree that dealers must have bikes on their floor for potential customers to touch, feel, and yes ride. Test rides do sell bikes and Victory must continue to do this. With that said guys............in what world do "potential buyers" come before "real buyers"? |
|
| |
|
Cruiser
Posts: 170
Houston, TX | Big Vic - 2009-11-15 7:58 AM
The new Beetle, Mustang, Camaro, and so on all went to paying customers before dealers had them on their lot.
Untrue. You could rent them at major car rental outlets (Hertz,Avis,etc...) before they were actually at the dealerships.
Edited by elvis441 2009-11-15 10:24 AM
|
|
| |
|
Iron Butt
Posts: 619
Southeast Iowa | Not untrue. Don't you think Hertz, Avis, etc. ordered them? Don't you think they "paid" for those cars? Do you think the car manufactures just gave them away while customers waited so Hertz could rent them to you? Come on............think about it.
Hertz, Avis, etc were the "paying customers" who placed their order that is why they got them before the dealers did.
|
|
| |
|
Visionary
Posts: 3204
Memphis | I'll use this year's schedule as an example shown here: http://www.polarisindustries.com/en-us/Victory-Motorcycles/Pages/Demo-Tour-Events.aspx If all of these events could have demo bikes available at the cost of less than a week of production, just imagine how many riders could get saddle time. I don't know how many pre-orders Victory gets for a new model (don't get me wrong, I pre-ordered my Vision in July of '07) but in the big scheme of things it would seem like the overall numbers favor the demo bikes making waves all winter at the cost of the pre-orders waiting maybe an extra week. The pre-orders would always be the first owners, just necessarily not the first (and only) riders. I know neither side will win this argument but it's fun to watch.
Edited by SongFan 2009-11-15 11:51 AM
|
|
| |
|
Iron Butt
Posts: 619
Southeast Iowa | Ok "ME BAD" I apparently don't know how to read even after Jedi Jeff said maybe we were getting off topic. Somehow I failed to understand "DEMO BIKE" to be those that travel around the country in the Victory haulers and NOT those that Dealers have and let people ride. My job as Manufacturing Manager might be to blame...........I'm not used to thinking that a customer has to wait while we build product for the company to use for pictures, advertising, literature, shows, and in this case demo rides.. These products are typically built during Pilot Runs or Design Verification Runs and do not effect customer delivery once the product is released.
So for what it is worth I DO think Victory should build it's fleet of bikes for their haulers first, but more than likely this was done before the bikes were ever released to production (which does not effect customer delivery) therefore making this discussion a mute point.
Sorry again for my confusion. |
|
| |
|
Visionary
Posts: 1436
| BigVic, I believe you might have missed my point. I think it is far more important to get the bikes out to the dealers than to build a demo fleet. Folks who preordered should come first, but which preorders come first? My dealer preordered a number of the Cross Bikes at the dealer show, so should he get his first? They are pre-orders. Or should vic only fill customer preorders first? Which dealer gets his bikes first then?
The point is you couldn't get the bikes out to the customers and dealers fast enough in most cases. So those who are pre-orders be they dealers or customers should be filled first based on "when the order was taken." So it is quite possible with my dealer having ordered several bikes at the dealer show to have customers who did not pre-order riding before someone who laid down cash the day after my dealer did. However, Victory should NOT delay delivery of pre-orders to make up a fleet of demo bikes to take to shows.
If my dealer had a foresight to pre-order bikes, good on him. That allows him to do what he knows sells bikes in his area...letting potential customers ride them and take them home after if they decide it is for them.
I "believe" far too many Victory dealers have become like the HD and Honda dealers I have visited. They want you to buy but they don't want you in the saddle before you do, UNLESS it happens to be on some demo factory truck bike. Wrong approach to sales if you ask me. In fact MOST dealers in my area will put you on any bike you are interested in because they know riding them will sell more bikes. |
|
| |
|
Visionary
Posts: 1340
Gainesville Fl Home of the Gators | Here in the trenches I have got to say that building the 10-15 Demo bikes does not make a big enough difference in product delivery to worry about. It is not like they took a weeks worth of production; more like half a day at the most. However the trucks running around without demo bikes made the whole demo deal pointless |
|
| |
|
Iron Butt
Posts: 619
Southeast Iowa | Teach to your point my answer is.
1. I think the demo fleet for Victory haulers is a non-issue since they should have been built in pre-production runs anyway. Let's get past that one.
2. I also agree that pre-orders should come first but I feel the customers that have put money down should get their bikes before the dealers orders are filled and here's why. Dealers pre-order bikes every year at the dealer meetings (or shortly after) This is nothing new for them, this is how the business works. They do this for PG@A and both new and existing models. These orders are not sold but are for inventory for their floor. Once again, why would Victory make a paying customer wait so a dealer could put 1 on his floor?
Let's also not forget who sold these pre-ordered bikes to the customer. It was the dealer in the first place so it's not like he's being cut out of the loop. Let me repeat "These customer pre-ordered bikes which are the center of attention were sold to customers by dealers" The sooner the customer gets his pre-ordered bike the sooner the dealer gets paid! The only dealers that wouldn't want to fill customer orders first are the ones that didn't sell one. The only customer that wouldn't want "the customer" to get the bikes first is the one who didn't order one.
Ok -With this post I'm done.............too much typing over something that doesn't matter anyway. Victory has and will continue to build bikes for customers who have put money down before dealer inventories. As for the haulers.......if Victory didn't build those bikes first it's because they didn't want to..........I don't know why nor do I care. In today's world there are many places to get information if you want it. If there is not a CR or CC on the hauler in November I doubt that it will kill Victory. Those that are actually interested enough to buy an X bike will wait.
Edited by Big Vic 2009-11-15 5:03 PM
|
|
| |