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Visionary
Posts: 8144
New Bohemia, VA | Well, I think I finally got something wrong with my Vision, and it is my fault. A few months and few thousand miles ago I started to get a sticky feel in the steering. I pulled the triple tree and sure enough the bearing was tacky. So I lubed it up, torqued it down and felt all was well. It seemed okay but it continued to pull a little to the right.
After my Atlanta trip it is really getting bad and after talking with the tech he thinks the bearing is shot, which is not surprising. So, I'll have to put the Vision down for a while to pull the triple tree again and replace the bearing and races.
Keep your steering bearings lubed per manual... live and learn...  |
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Visionary
Posts: 3773
Pittsburgh, PA | i dont have the manual on me, what is the recommended mileage for lubing the bearings? andhow much of a PITA is it? |
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Visionary
Posts: 8144
New Bohemia, VA | I don't have mine directly in front of me but I think it is along the lines of every 15,000 and done by the dealer. It requires a spanner socket and only available for the dealer. I improvised and made my own, that is a pain. Talk with your dealer on that, as it didn't give out on me until around 58,000 and it progressively got worse.
Up until then it seemed to be perfectly okay as I could roll many miles with no hands. I'm rolling 66,000 on the clock now and it will pull to the right, though I can still counter it but it takes work. I ride hands on mostly anyways here of late, not just because of that though. |
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Cruiser
Posts: 235
Kincardine, Ontario, Canada | Checking the manual, there is no way to lube the steering head bearings without fully disassembling the triple tree assembly. If you are going through all that trouble, you might as well throw in a new bearing set. Since the forks are removed might as well change that fluid at the same time.
The entire process is a lot of work, too bad they didn't have the foresight to put in a zerk fitting so you could just hit it with a grease gun, I had over a 100,000 Kms on my 13 year old Harley and still had the original steering head bearings; no problems. |
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Visionary
Posts: 8144
New Bohemia, VA | candubrain, I would disagree on replacing the set everytime, but certainly and option. I think keeping it lubed would allow many more miles without replacing. I would think every 30,000 is not a bad interval and will do that here on out. The bearings themselves is a piece of cake to replace, it is the race in the casting that will be a pain to knockout and reseat. |
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Cruiser
Posts: 235
Kincardine, Ontario, Canada | Varyder, yes I agree, the races are the problem, but to repack the bearing, you will need to wash out the old grease first. My experience as a mechanic, unless you are surgically clean with everything you will be introducing contaminants in the bearing that will eventually cause it to get rough and fail.
My logic is that the major labour is to remove the steering heads, so for the extra time to remove the races and replace the bearings as a new set is not that much more.
I have always been meticulous with maintenance on my vehicles. This one is definitely one of the more difficult bikes to perform simple maintenance on; i.e. how about trying to change a headlight bulb.
I think I will follow your lead and let it slide until I have reached double the suggested interval of 15000 miles, but I will change out the bearings
Your high mileage and experience has been a good threshold marker for us. Thanks and have a good weekend. |
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Visionary
Posts: 3773
Pittsburgh, PA | wow the visions front end sure is high maintenance.. fork oil 15000 bearing greasing 15000 miles you would think a touring bike would have better maintanence intervals than this... is it hard to do the fork oil change your self.. on one of my older bike i was able to "pull" the old fluid out and insert to fluid.. with the vision is there anything more than just replacing the fluid? do you need to replace anything else? |
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Cruiser
Posts: 235
Kincardine, Ontario, Canada | you have to pull the forks, then there is a special tool to measure the oil level. Without the tool, I wouldn't try it, the whole deal is 3 or 4 hours labour for the dealer |
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Visionary
Posts: 8144
New Bohemia, VA | candubrain, yes, I agree and wonder why I do the things that I do in the conditions that I have to work. But having worked in maintenance for a trucking company, field maintenance in the Army for 20 years, and worked on my own vehicles for the most part, I have a fairly decent track record. I'm contemplating on letting the dealer do the steering bearing and race, but I've got to get past the "defeated" feeling I have when I can do those things, as I like to work on things myself when I am able to.
I mainly share my exploits to get folk to think about what they are doing and get the experts to chime in and refute, rebutt, or substantiate what I share. This way other folks can make an assessment as to what they need to do. Number one is though folks MUST take care of their machine as this is literally placing one's life in the balance. |
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Visionary
Posts: 3773
Pittsburgh, PA | candubrain - 2010-04-04 7:16 AM
you have to pull the forks, then there is a special tool to measure the oil level. Without the tool, I wouldn't try it, the whole deal is 3 or 4 hours labour for the dealer
what i did with one of my older bikes when i changed the fluid was. removed the old. and used a ratio-rite to measure the amount going in and then put that into the fork. i believe at that time it was 290cc? found out kawasaki only put in 25cc and thats why the bike handled so poorly.. afterwards it was nice!
you mentioned about a special tool needed to measure the fluid level. is there a place where we can purchase these tools? i feel it would pay for itself in the long run |
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Visionary
Posts: 8144
New Bohemia, VA | Arkainzeye, the manual refers to the tool and part number. The tool is used to bring the fluid down to the proper level after you bleed the fluid in. I made my own tool as it mentions the measurement to bring it down too. I use an aluminum tube and then slide the suction tube in to the edge, the aluminum tube keeps it straight. Then you just suck out the excess fluid. |
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Cruiser
Posts: 235
Kincardine, Ontario, Canada | Vayder, you have good ideas, getting back to the defeated part, I accepted that years ago. I make myself feel better by telling myself that other people need to put food on their plate too, hence me paying for their services. LOL
Like you, in the past for me, I never let people touch my bike, even today I worry if they torqued nuts correctly. But between a bad back and no longer having a garage, I have succumbed to the skill of others.
Maybe we can have a steering head, fork oil change party similar to the Cam swap out. LOL
take care all.....brian
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Tourer
Posts: 390
| I thought I had an alignment isssue with mine. The bike would not track straight when on a level road. Turned out to be my fault....I had all my tools an rain gear and first aid in one saddlebag to free up the other side. Balanced out the load and curred the problem. I always come hear to see if anyone is having the same issues as I am. I spent the first 20 years of my adult life working on my own equipment to save money. Now that I can afford to make the choice, I think of letting someone esle work on my bike like this. How long would it take me to do it versus how long will the M.C.shop take. My shop rate and the dealer shop rate are the same. So I let the "Experts" sometime work on my ride , even when I can do the job. Why work on the bike for 8 hours when the dealer takes 3-4 hous for the same job. They should already have the specialized tools and extra hands when needed. There is no defeat in it , just wisdom.
I always appreciate varyder's input because of his miles on his ride. 58,000 plus I am envious... |
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Cruiser
Posts: 235
Kincardine, Ontario, Canada |
I always appreciate varyder's input because of his miles on his ride. 58,000 plus I am envious...
+1 |
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Tourer
Posts: 562
SC, Bluffton | candubrain - 2010-04-04 7:16 AM
, the whole deal is 3 or 4 hours labour for the dealer
Yikes. Those are trade decision amounts-dollars. 
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Visionary
Posts: 1350
| I think these types of posts are good for all owners. Many times owners that don't turn wrenches think they are being over charged for work performed. Between the "special" tolls and the time involved many times it's easier to take to the shop. We still should figure in man hours for our own work when thinking of saving money. Especially when we break off a bolt or cross thread a fastener. The toughest part is finding a mech you respect to work on your baby. 
I had a hard spot in my steering. Jay checked it out and found the plastic covers near the forks were too long. He shaved them down a little and all has been fine since. Something for others to check.
Ride safe. |
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Visionary
Posts: 1340
Gainesville Fl Home of the Gators | Neck bearings should be measured for tension, checked for play, and binding. If all of this is found to be normal the bearings are left alone. These bearings rarely fail in bikes that are kept clean[wiping away grime from the area etc], and while riding in the rain does not tend to be an issue.....sitting in the rain does. Sometimes though I think it is all luck. My old TC had original neck bearings with over 80K miles on her. Bike was rode every day rain or shine, and parked under an oak tree to keep the heavy rain off
Disassembling the front end is the easy part of the job. Getting the lower bearing off and on is a pain in the ass as well, but getting the lower race out is a pure bitch[even with the right pullers] |
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Tourer
Posts: 447
Cleveland, GA | Oil Change instructions for Women
1. Note it has been 3000 miles since last change. Go to JiffyLube.
2. Sign in, have cup of coffee, sign out 15 minutes later, pay.
Total cost $21.95
Oil Change instructions for Men
1) Wait until Saturday, drive to auto parts store and buy a case of oil, filter, kitty litter, and hand cleaner; write a check for $50.00. This job "has to be done right!" so you will do it YOURSELF.
2) Stop by 7-11 and buy a case of beer, write a check for $20.00, drive home.
3) Open a beer and drink it.
4) Jack car up. Spend 30 minutes looking for jack stands.
5) Find jack stands under kid's pedal car.
6) In frustration, open another beer and drink it.
7) Place drain pan under engine.
8) Look for 9/16 box end wrench.
9) Give up and use crescent wrench.
10) Unscrew drain plug.
11) Drop drain plug in pan of hot oil: splash hot oil on face and arms in process. Cuss.
12) Crawl out from under car to wipe hot oil off of face and arms. Throw kitty litter on spilled oil.
13) Have another beer while watching oil drain.
14) Spend 30 minutes looking for oil filter wrench.
15) Give up; crawl under car and hammer a screwdriver through oil filter and twist off.
16) Crawl out from under car with dripping oil filter splashing oil everywhere from holes. Cleverly hide old oil filter among trash in trash can to avoid environmental penalties. Drink a beer.
17) Buddy shows up; finish case of beer with him. Decide to finish oil change tomorrow so you can go see his new garage door opener work.
18) Sunday: Skip church because "I gotta finish the oil change." Drag pan full of old oil out from underneath car. Cleverly dump oil in hole in back yard instead of taking it to recycle.
19) Throw kitty litter on oil spilled during step 18.
20) Beer. No, drank it all yesterday.
21) Walk to 7-11; buy beer.
22) Install new oil filter making sure to apply a thin coat of oil to gasket surface.
23) Dump first quart of fresh oil into engine.
24) Remember drain plug from step 11.
25) Hurry to find drain plug in drain pan.
26) Remember that the used oil is buried in a hole in the back yard along with drain plug.
27) Drink beer.
28) Shovel out hole and sift oily mud for drain plug. Re-shovel oily patch of ground and avoid environmental penalties. Wash drain plug in lawn mower gas.
29) Discover that first quart of fresh oil is now on the floor. Throw kitty litter on oil spill.
30) Drink beer.
31) Crawl under car getting kitty litter into eyes. Wipe eyes with oily rag used to clean drain plug. Slip with stupid crescent wrench tightening drain plug and bang knuckles on frame.
32) Bang head on floorboards in reaction to step 31.
33) Begin cussing fit.
34) Throw stupid crescent wrench.
35) Cuss for additional 10 minutes because wrench hit Miss August (2002) in the left boob.
36) Beer.
37) Clean up hands and forehead and bandage as required to stop blood flow.
38) Beer.
39) Beer.
40) Dump in five fresh quarts of oil.
41) Beer.
42) Lower car from jack stands.
43) Accidentally crush remaining case of new motor oil.
44) Move car back to apply more kitty litter to fresh oil spilled during steps 23-43.
45) Beer.
46) Test drive car.
47) Get pulled over; arrested for driving under the influence.
48) Car gets impounded.
49) Call loving wife, make bail.
50) 12 hours later, get car from impound yard.
Money spent:
Parts $50.00
DUI $2500.00
Impound fee $75.00
Bail $1500.00
Beer $40.00
Total-- $4165.00
-- But you know the job was done right
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Visionary
Posts: 8144
New Bohemia, VA | You've lost that lovin' feeling, whooa ooo that lovin' feeling 'cause it's gone, gone, gone, I can't go on...
Anyway, Vision grounded. I'll check in the manual to see what has to be done to set the race in the cast frame, and then take it from there. Maybe the dealer, maybe me and the dealer. Weather looks good and I should have a the few hours across a few days to get done and on the road again. If not, I'll take 'er to the dealer and hock my Wrangler to get it out.
I want it to "Feel like the first time"
By the way, for me part of riding is knowing how to repair as well, but that is just me and how I roll, good or bad, I know my risks and I'm willing to accept those risks, even if costs me, but not in the way of my life. I check, and recheck, but in the case of my bearing, when it got sticky the first time I had already given in to the fact it was shot, but hope it wasn't. Its been feeling a little funky since then, and putting another 8,000 miles on it I think it did well. A lot of it coincided with my trip to Detroit when I ran 8+ hours of twisties through VA, WVA & OH, so it might have still be good had I not done that little detour, but oh well, it was more than 300 curves in 11 miles, more like a zillion in 400 miles, especially through WVA. All I know was, the Bentley and I was getting a workout.
Edited by varyder 2010-04-04 10:01 PM
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Cruiser
Posts: 235
Kincardine, Ontario, Canada | kevinx - 2010-04-04 9:09 PM
Neck bearings should be measured for tension, checked for play, and binding. If all of this is found to be normal the bearings are left alone. These bearings rarely fail in bikes that are kept clean[wiping away grime from the area etc], and while riding in the rain does not tend to be an issue.....sitting in the rain does. Sometimes though I think it is all luck. My old TC had original neck bearings with over 80K miles on her. Bike was rode every day rain or shine, and parked under an oak tree to keep the heavy rain off
Disassembling the front end is the easy part of the job. Getting the lower bearing off and on is a pain in the ass as well, but getting the lower race out is a pure bitch[even with the right pullers]
Good to know, thanks for the advice |
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Visionary
Posts: 8144
New Bohemia, VA | Okay, pulled the triple tree and it is definitely time for a steering bearing replacement. I'll try to get by the dealer and have them press on the tree bearing and then I'll install the top one myself. The race looks interesting to remove but I think I can do it, I have the tools according to the book. Reseating without the special tool may be a trick but I've done it before without them with the right size brass driver, don't know, might have to have the dealer to make a house call before it is over with. The whole assembly is not complex, but as candubrain points out it must be done mecticuliously. I'll take my track record for the most part and measure the sucess of this project. At worst I'll be taking it to the dealer and have them redo the whole thing, but for the moment it feels good to wrench a little on the Bentley.
I see what happened too, and not recommended. Instead of replacing the bearing at the first sign of problems, I just slapped some grease on it. It really was already gone at that time, 58,000, but thought I'd try it to see what would happen. No, I did not flush out the bearing, and that just helped it a long. I'm glad it is just this as I was concerned with something in the rearend that was making it wander. But the steering is very, very notchy, well, not at this second as I've got it disassembled, but before that it actually felt slotted in the turning. Bad....
Too bad there ain't no zerk somewhere for this, I see me doing this in another 60,000 or so. I'm glad the injun runs as good as it does....
Edited by varyder 2010-04-05 7:32 PM
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Puddle Jumper
Posts: 37
Southern Indiana | When you get ready to install the new bearing races (cups) drop them in dri ice for a couple of hours and then wear welding gloves to handle races and they will drop in without any other tools. Hold them in place until they warm few seconds and they will be ready to go |
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Cruiser
Posts: 235
Kincardine, Ontario, Canada | Yup, I find when situations like this arise, I call on all my mechanical experience and ask myself one simple question
"Will the 2lb ball pean do or do I go for the 5 lb sledge"
Sorry, that's wasn't funny
I'm sure Varyder you will not have a problem. I'd be careful with that Brass driver, thats a cast aluminum frame you are working with. That bearing install tool doesn't look high tech, you could probably whip one up with the stuff laying around your garage; flat washers, threaded rod, nuts, etc.
RiverRat has a good idea, your fridge freezer will help some if you don't have access to dry ice and don't forget to add some lube first. |
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Visionary
Posts: 8144
New Bohemia, VA | my bigger concern is removing the old stuff, that's where I'll screw it up. I've got time to think it out. It didn't look too hard to get at, but yeah, aluminum sucks sometimes and less forgiving. RR has the concept and the right idea. I'll put that puppy in the freezer tonight and put it tomorrow evening.
Edited by varyder 2010-04-06 3:18 AM
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Puddle Jumper
Posts: 37
Southern Indiana | Putting them in the freezer will help but with Dri Ice you will find they will draw up and will go in without even getting a hammer out.
A hammer and cast aluminum do not go well together. |
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Visionary
Posts: 8144
New Bohemia, VA | I'll see how easy for me it is to get dry ice. I do understand the physics.. Thanks RR. |
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Tourer
Posts: 390
| Wow....your dealer makes house calls.......now I am envious |
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Iron Butt
Posts: 763
Anderson, IN (48mi NE of downtown Indianapolis) | My dealer came to my house when my radio buttons quit working. They replaced the whole 3-button assembly under warranty. |
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Visionary
Posts: 8144
New Bohemia, VA | chip, chip, grind grind... diet mountain dew *swig* grind...grind.. chip...chip... *swig*.... |
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Cruiser
Posts: 235
Kincardine, Ontario, Canada | varyder - 2010-04-10 12:11 PM
chip, chip, grind grind... diet mountain dew *swig* grind...grind.. chip...chip... *swig*....
How are you making out, I've been wondering..... |
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Visionary
Posts: 8144
New Bohemia, VA | Always make sure you have the right tools before you start any job.... sometimes that tool is the dealer!
So I go and get an portable air compressor, all the dodads, air rototary tool and some cheap grinding set from Harbor Freight. So far all that stuff seems to be fairly good, except the grinding bit set. After I wasted all the implements I set out to find a good grinder bit. Now mind you I was looking for the past 2 days at Lowes, Home Depot, ACE Hardware and a few other places. I was down to the last cheapy and had all but given up. I try one more time and finally find what I'm looking for, by chance, at the True Value hardware store.
I get home, zip, zip, knock, and remove the old race.
I'm in the state of putting everything back but had to stop for the night. The new race and top bearing is installed and since my "ox is in the ditch" I'll take the Lord's day and finish it up tomorrow. It'll just take putting the tree back in, replacing my fork fluid and reassemblying everthing and I should be riding in a few hours. |
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Cruiser
Posts: 235
Kincardine, Ontario, Canada | glad to hear you are progressing. |
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Visionary
Posts: 8144
New Bohemia, VA | so my wife puts on her teddy and says "come to bed". Sheeesh, I've got to finish putting the Vision on the road tonight. Women, they just don't understand priorities..... |
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Visionary
Posts: 8144
New Bohemia, VA | Mission Accomplished! Vision on track. What a difference, I was able to do something I haven't been able to do on the Bentley for about six months now. Rides perfect and cuts the truck wash just fine. I did about a 30 mile midnight ride just to be sure. I think my next project is replace the rear bushing(s) to make sure she is tight. I also need to change the front fork oil, just a few grand over mileage. Tires are nearly new front and back. Bike feels like the first day I road 'er off the lot. |
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Cruiser
Posts: 235
Kincardine, Ontario, Canada | Pat yourself on the back, that was not an easy job, ride safe |
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Visionary
Posts: 8144
New Bohemia, VA | candubrain - 2010-04-14 9:04 PM
Pat yourself on the back, that was not an easy job, ride safe
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Cruiser
Posts: 93
Saskatchewan (hard to say, easy to draw ) | When someone asks "How you makin out..." we really do need to know that someone is as well! Maybe other stuff too....Candubrain. Or is that just fission on the wrong crick? |
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Cruiser
Posts: 235
Kincardine, Ontario, Canada | Jim - 2010-04-15 11:29 PM
When someone asks "How you makin out..." we really do need to know that someone is as well! Maybe other stuff too....Candubrain. Or is that just fission on the wrong crick?
wrong crick |
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Visionary
Posts: 8144
New Bohemia, VA | you canucks! did your sis catch you one? |
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Visionary
Posts: 2027
Brighton, TN | So, would you recommend replacing the race, when you replace the bearing. Looking into finding the right tools, I don't have a bunch of stuff just laying around so I wind up buying all these Victory specific tools. However, these seem to be a bit cost prohibitive. Any suggestions?
Spanner Socket PV-43508 - $42.24
Steering Bearing Race Install tool PV-43515 - $108.72
Stem Bearing Remover PV-43551 - $260.04
Lower Steering Stem Bearing Remover PV-44683 $69.00
Total - $480 just in tools, no bearings or races yet.
I haven't figured out the bearing part numbers yet. |
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Visionary
Posts: 2027
Brighton, TN | varyder, I didn't see where you had posted how you got the lower steering bearing off or on. |
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Visionary
Posts: 8144
New Bohemia, VA | Sorry, I don't think I've got something in the Tech Ref. When I have more time and get my thoughts together I'll get more detail. However, most of what you do is in the service manual. I didn't remove any things off the handle bars and I just lay that back after removing the bolts. I also made my own spanner socket out of a piece of pipe I had laying around that was the same size. There's a few different ways to handle the lower race, I cut mine out use a drimel and a chisel. Took forever. The next time I think I would just do a pilot hole up top and punch it out. KevinX suggest using a seal puller, but I don't know what particular one, but it would be one that would be a blind hole puller. Follow the book to reassyemble and torque. You may have to read it a couple of times to catch on to what it is to do exactly. But the bike should ride excellent if you did everything right. If not, readjust. I hope that helps. Homework assignment, read the manual carefully. |
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Vision off track