|
|
Cruiser
Posts: 215
orrick, mo | I going to the darkside this weekend. I'm going with the Bridgestone potenza G019 Grid
195/55/R16 and I was wondering what air pressure I should run? I'm not sure how much I
will like the darkside but I've got to give it a try. Hope the curiousity doesn't get this cat. |
|
| |
|
Tourer
Posts: 400
| I'm doing the same thing. I started a post called darksider updates where some have listed tire pressure. Do a "darkside" and "car tire" search. A couple threads have been started where people list pressures. |
|
| |
|
Jacksonville Florida | Don't forget the shock air pressure, it is just as inportant as the tire pressure. I have the Kuhmo run flat at 30 LBS. and the shock at 15 PSI for one up. |
|
| |
|
Tourer
Posts: 394
Tucson, AZ | I've not been able to go dark side yet, replaced rear tire on the road, but when I had my Valkyrie, I ran 34 psi in the rear and got 18,000 miles out of the tire and was happy with the performance. I would start there and see what works the best for you. |
|
| |
|
Cruiser
Posts: 215
orrick, mo | thanks for all the info. I removed the rear wheel today and will get it back tomorrow with the ct mounted and balanced. I would have to say removing the rear wheel was a lot easier than my
stealers mechanic made it sound like. should be able to ride a couple of miles tomorrow night.
 |
|
| |
|
Visionary
Posts: 1436
| 30-32 psi seems to be the accepted inflation for the Vision with that particular tire. You can run higher say 38-40 psi for a hundred miles or so which will soften the tire for you quicker, but drop it down to 30-32 after the first 100 so you can appreciate the benefit. Just remember you will need to push the bike into a corner with a little more effort to start but it will get easier after breakin. The tire will also want to follow road rut. So if you are riding a road and there are some areas of road where tires have rutted the road a bit the rear tire will seek it out. You'll understand this statement better after you experience it. |
|
| |
|
Cruiser
Posts: 215
orrick, mo | Well i got it all back together and rode a few miles. I believe I wll be staying on the darkside for awhile.
Felt ok. I'm running 31psi and all felt pretty good I think I will adjust to it pretty good . I've got a 50 mile round trip to and home. I sure I will have a better handle on it tomorrow. Thanks for all the great
info. |
|
| |
|
Cruiser
Posts: 215
orrick, mo | Sorry Mom but if gone to the DARKSIDE and I won't be coming back anytime soon!  |
|
| |
|
Visionary
Posts: 1436
| Give yourself a couple hundred miles to get comfy with it and remember the rear will hydroplane now on real wet roads. I'd give the same advice on ANY tire change, so enjoy but be cautious. |
|
| |
|
Tourer
Posts: 388
Salisbury, NC | I don't know how much it has to rain to hydroplane. I was in a rain storm coming home from the Bristol race (weatherman reported 4 in of rain in 2 & 1/2 hours)and cars/ trucks were running 30 mph and I was still running 50 with no hydroplaning. If it wasn't for the fog, I would have been doing the speed limit of 65. But it does not hurt to be careful. ET |
|
| |
|
Tourer
Posts: 537
, FL United States | buzz let us know how it is. |
|
| |
|
Visionary
Posts: 1436
| ets, hardly any rain at all to hydroplane. Folks seem to think hydroplaning actually means you are sliding when all it means is you have a barrier of water between the rubber and road surface. The wider the contact patch the greater the amount of hydroplaning that is occuring. As a rule most experts agree that MC tires are less likely to be affected by hydroplaning than a traditional car tire due to the small contact patch.
So the point of my comment is we tend to feel a sense of false security when running the darkside tires because the bike feels more planted because of the flat nature of a car tire, but in reality we are in less contact with the road surface when it is raining. We do NOT need to take any additional steps EXCEPT to recognize that contact is reduced greater than if we had a bike tire on the back. One of those myths so to speak like you neeed to slow down a MC when riding on wet surfaces. |
|
| |
|
Cruiser
Posts: 215
orrick, mo | I'll give it the true test this coming weekend. I seen that there is a ABATE rally in Arkansas. I
believe I will cruise down and check it out. Never been to one but heard they can get a little
wild. I let everyone know how it goes. |
|
| |
|
Visionary
Posts: 2118
Pitt Meadows, BC Canada | Victory Vision: $30,000
Motorcycle Tire - rear: $300
Car Tire $150
Savings - WHO GIVES A CRAP !!!! People - bike tires are a zillion miles from a car tire design. Why on EARTH would you risk your life on driving on a CAR TIRE to save $150 ???? To get a few thousand more miles - if you drive ultra-conservatively in that time?
If that's the case - why the Hell don't you just stay in your cage? There is a REASON why CAR TIRES on a MOTORCYCLE is called ....
THE DARK SIDE
And you probably change your own OIL - too ....
|
|
| |
|
Visionary
Posts: 8144
New Bohemia, VA | don, i still change my own oil as i like that intimacy with the Bentley, that is part of riding to me. i respect those who have gone darkside and say they like it along with the so-called benefits. I can't do it as I like the way my ride rides and handles and could not bring myself to give it up. E3 for the VV... |
|
| |
|
Visionary
Posts: 1436
| don, there is a problem with our argument AGAINST cage tires on the rear of a bike, mainly that several manufacturers of motorcycles actually use cage tires on the rear of bikes. For the record the cage tire for the Vision is only around $90, with install and balance about $130. The rear tire for the Vision about $300 installed. Given the DS tire will go 30k easily and the Visions stock E3 only about 10k that would be $900 to $130, a considerable savings by any standard.
Don't get me wrong I wouldn't argue for the use of DS tires on a bike, they are not for everyone. One needs to evaluate whether it is wise based on their individual ride habits. For example varyder would likely benefit from using a DS due in large part to the amount of hwy riding he does. Someone who rides a lot of twisties (mostly twisties) would probably do better with a bike tire.
The long and short is there isn't a reason to not run them if so inclined. I prefer my mc specific tires but I have friends that have been running DS tires for hundreds of thousands of miles and wouldn't use anything else. Their choice |
|
| |
|
Visionary
Posts: 8144
New Bohemia, VA | I'm glad someone knows how I ride as I wasn't sure. I'll be going darkside Monday... lOl |
|
| |
|
Cruiser
Posts: 215
orrick, mo | I would say most of us who ride a Vision also ride it because its different than the run of the mill want a be Harley bike. Maybe trying the darkside is showing a little bit more of my resistance of conforming to what other say I should do. The savings have little to do with why I tried it. Not having to hassle with changing a rear tire everyyear a major bonus. If it doesn't work out bfd. I tried and lived and learned. |
|
| |
|
Visionary
Posts: 8144
New Bohemia, VA | buzz64077 - 2010-04-18 1:33 PM
I would say most of us who ride a Vision also ride it because its different than the run of the mill want a be Harley bike. Maybe trying the darkside is showing a little bit more of my resistance of conforming to what other say I should do. The savings have little to do with why I tried it. Not having to hassle with changing a rear tire everyyear a major bonus. If it doesn't work out bfd. I tried and lived and learned.
Thank you buzz for doing what you want to do. I would like to hear what you think though. My reason for going, or not going ds should not be anyone else's reason for going or not going ds. Hearing the assesment helps all of us make those decisions. |
|
| |
|
Visionary
Posts: 1436
| varyder, wasn't claiming to know anything about your ride habits, only saying that you seem to ride a lot of hwy miles based on the posts you've made. I've also seen you mention liking to hit the twisties from time to time. My point was for someone who rides lots of hwy miles, but isn't limited to those, that person would be fine with a darkside and probably reduce some overhead in rear replacements.
On the opposite end of the spectrum are guys like myself who avoid hwy's like the plague. Since I don't tend to ride many hwy miles the shift in roads is reversed. So while I could avoid replacement costs the true benefit of going DS would be lost on the roads I ride mostly.
I do have a trip coming up which will be mostly hwy miles, about 5k worth and towing the trailer. I may switch back to the DS tire for the trip. In fact I'm looking for a cheap rear wheel so I can mount up the DS tire on it and keep the MC tire mounted on the stock wheel. Then I could swap back and forth based on the ride. |
|
| |
|
Visionary
Posts: 3773
Pittsburgh, PA | when i had my car tire on my kawasaki vulcan it was a tire that was designed for rain useage. it was a good year triple tread assurance. I rode in 179 miles of the heaviest rain i ever rode in. and i did no less than 65mph because if i went any slower i had cars riding my butt. During the entire time of the rain storm i was in,. i never felt a loss of traction. And this was using a 225/55-16 car tire.. WIDE........ in the 3 years i used the CT rain was never ever an issue.. Nor was the nail i pick up either...
few videos of a CT on a bike in action
http://www.youtube.com/watch#!v=EAHlbSzwjsg&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch#!v=QwSSXHanpv0&feature=related
Edited by Arkainzeye 2010-04-18 5:43 PM
|
|
| |
|
Visionary
Posts: 3773
Pittsburgh, PA | Teach - 2010-04-18 10:18 AM
don, there is a problem with our argument AGAINST cage tires on the rear of a bike, mainly that several manufacturers of motorcycles actually use cage tires on the rear of bikes. For the record the cage tire for the Vision is only around $90, with install and balance about $130. The rear tire for the Vision about $300 installed. Given the DS tire will go 30k easily and the Visions stock E3 only about 10k that would be $900 to $130, a considerable savings by any standard.
Don't get me wrong I wouldn't argue for the use of DS tires on a bike, they are not for everyone. One needs to evaluate whether it is wise based on their individual ride habits. For example varyder would likely benefit from using a DS due in large part to the amount of hwy riding he does. Someone who rides a lot of twisties (mostly twisties) would probably do better with a bike tire.
The long and short is there isn't a reason to not run them if so inclined. I prefer my mc specific tires but I have friends that have been running DS tires for hundreds of thousands of miles and wouldn't use anything else. Their choice
TEACH im with you on the savings.. i knew a guy with a honda valk that has over 65000 Miles on his CT with that bike! and that bike has torque just like ours.. The tire was on it for years! he said all he does it replace front from time to time. and we all know how much easier AND cheaper replacing a front tire is vs a rear.. he even pulled a trailer! He said pulling a trailer was the main reason he went to a CT. For some people a CT could last the LIFE of the motorcycle.. |
|
| |
|
Visionary
Posts: 2118
Pitt Meadows, BC Canada | It is my understanding from years of discussing this - that the profile of a car tire causes horrible handling characteristics (in stock form). As I recall, the problem is that when running straight - the bike rides on the flat bottom of the car tire. But when you turn - there is an ABBRUPT change in attitude when the bike rides on the relatively sharp corner of the tire - and then even more horrid when it wants to ride on the sidewall.
I know some people tried 'shaving' the corner to give the tire less of a flat bottom. These pictures show the different profiles of car vs bike tire. Is there a car tire that looks like a bike tire?
(Tire 195-55 16.jpg)
(TIRE-BR-EXEDRA-180-fslash-60R16-1.jpg)
Attachments
----------------
 Tire 195-55 16.jpg (12KB - 2 downloads)
TIRE-BR-EXEDRA-180-fslash-60R16-1.jpg (19KB - 2 downloads)
|
|
| |
|
Tourer
Posts: 301
Buffalo Grove,Ill | Havent you ever seen a model A ford ???? HMMMMMMM????
http://www.musclecarclub.com/other-cars/classic/ford-model-t/images...
Edited by clubford00 2010-04-18 7:47 PM
|
|
| |
|
Tourer
Posts: 301
Buffalo Grove,Ill | How do i delete this reply? it was a double post
Edited by clubford00 2010-04-18 7:48 PM
|
|
| |
|
Visionary
Posts: 1436
| don, it is really hard to explain the feel of a DS tire on a bike, but you never roll on the sidewall and I can't imagine you could roll the bike over that far. If you watch any video on DS tires you will notice something about the tire as the bike gets up to speed, it is no longer flat. This is why DS riders wear out the middle of the tire before anything else. Radials stand up when rotated at speed so the tire profile becomes more rounded and less flat. Tire pressure of course plays a role but if you are running 30 or so psi in the Vision rear with a DS tire you don't feel the hump (as I call it) as you roll over for curves. At slower, aka parkinglot speed you do because the tire is still relatively flat profiled at that speed. You will also feel more resistance or a need to push a little harder on the handlebars in a curve at slow speed but much less as the bike speeds up, again tire profile difference at low verses higher speeds. Now if you ran higher pressures in the tire say 40-42 psi, you'd definitely experience the abrupt change you mention in your post and you would feel the hump. However like a tire on a car the DS tire should be aired at 30-32 psi, not bike tire pressures.
I did experience exactly what you mentioned when I first put the DS tire on my vision. After about 200 miles and having talked to a friend who has run them for years I lowered the pressure to 30-32 psi and the difference in ride characteristic was huge, no more hump. The biggest or most noticeable issue (for lack of better word) was the tire would ride a rut much more regular than a mc tire. Rut being one of those weird ripple in the road surface caused by a collapse in the blacktop due to cage tires. This wasn't any worse than bikes I've ridden with 240 & 300 series mc tires, but I toss it out so folks don't get surprized.
I'm neither for DS tires or against their use. However having given them a go has given me a new perspective on the application. I figured it would be too easy to get over on a DS sidewall, but as much as I tried & pushed it, I never came close to it. "I" prefer a MC tire, but can see the practical advantage of the DS. You should give someones bike equiped with a DS tire a go if the opportunity presents itself. I believe you'll be surprized. Probably wouldn't change your position or like for a MC tire but it might be interesting for you. Ride safe... |
|
| |
|
Visionary
Posts: 8144
New Bohemia, VA | clubford00 - 2010-04-18 8:44 PM
How do i delete this reply? it was a double post
double posts are best filled with a good biker joke. go green and save the double post. |
|
| |
|
Visionary
Posts: 1340
Gainesville Fl Home of the Gators | Well said Teach. I have no problem with the DS, but personally did not like the "feel" of it on the Visions I have ridden that way. My old SC was as good, or better with the car tire on the back though |
|
| |
|
Visionary
Posts: 2118
Pitt Meadows, BC Canada | OK - I think I might understand. Tim, you talk about DS Tire - but I haven't bought tires for 30 years. I just buy a new car when the warranty runs out. Dimensional Stability Tire - it almost LOOKS like a bike tire. I feel better about that (not that I would ever put one on a bike - to each, his own) Chris ! I was just worried about ya (and you others who have crossed to 'the dark side')
(Dimensional Stability.jpg)
Attachments
----------------
Dimensional Stability.jpg (4KB - 2 downloads)
|
|
| |
|
Visionary
Posts: 8144
New Bohemia, VA | donetracey - 2010-04-18 10:23 PM
Chris ! I was just worried about ya (and you others who have crossed to 'the dark side')
You talkin' to me? I've not done the DS. It's like this, I wear Levi's because I like the way they wear and feel. Wrangler's can be cheaper and just as good quality, and may even wear longer, I don't know, but I just don't like the way they feel. I'm not willing to give up my Levi's (E3) tires to try Wrangler's to find out. |
|
| |
|
Visionary
Posts: 3773
Pittsburgh, PA | ive gone from MT to CT then back to MT and now might think about a CT again.. the orignal reason i went from the CT back to the MT was custom wheels and installing a 250 rear tire.. the CT is very nice if your a person that racks up the mileage! like some on here with a 08 vision thats already over 60K miles! =) i know alot of gold wing riders do this.. thats where i stole the idea from years ago.. these guys doing these cross country rides etc. all they worry about it the front tire. |
|
| |
|
Visionary
Posts: 2118
Pitt Meadows, BC Canada | these guys doing these cross country rides etc. all they worry about it the front tire. That's cuz they don't go round a curve at anything over Mother Hubbard speed. Even the old ladies here in BC would run them off the road. Remember - some places actually have CURVES - not just right-angle intersections. And the bike actually LEANS OVER onto the sides of the tires. Including the rear..... And the more I look at that picture of a DS Tire - I wouldn't want one on my CAR ! Unless I had a Yugo or some little underpowered thing like that.... |
|
| |
|
Visionary
Posts: 3773
Pittsburgh, PA | You mean curves like the 2 videos I posted? Or curves like US129 I Rode (4) times with a car tire? Find me a road with more curves than 318 in a 11 miles... LOL. I remember many years ago people saying you couldn't sail the ocean because it was flat and You would go off the edge of the world. Wonder what ever happened to that Guy?. (It was unsafe and couldn't be done, so say the ones that never tried).. |
|
| |
|
Visionary
Posts: 8144
New Bohemia, VA | I can side with Don on the CT, but then I'm not riding one either. I look at it this way, if that is what someone wants, including me, then it is my bike, I say ride on. There's a lot of things in this world that seems to be a good idea and people are happy with it, but as with anything else, it's not for everyone. I still have lots of people in my life that can't figure out why I ride a motorcycle to begin with, but they don't put me down because of it. They tell me to be safe because they won't come looking for me...
Edited by varyder 2010-04-19 8:39 AM
|
|
| |
|
Visionary
Posts: 3773
Pittsburgh, PA | varyder - 2010-04-19 8:38 AM
I can side with Don on the CT, but then I'm not riding one either. I look at it this way, if that is what someone wants, including me, then it is my bike, I say ride on. There's a lot of things in this world that seems to be a good idea and people are happy with it, but as with anything else, it's not for everyone. I still have lots of people in my life that can't figure out why I ride a motorcycle to begin with, but they don't put me down because of it. They tell me to be safe because they won't come looking for me...
I like the way you put that!! Its the truth.. =) |
|
| |
|
Cruiser
Posts: 215
orrick, mo | I started a new tread called Darkside update with my experience on the darkside. Hope you find it informative. |
|
| |
|
Cruiser
Posts: 184
Allen Park, MI | Arkainzeye - 2010-04-19 9:41 AM
varyder - 2010-04-19 8:38 AM
I can side with Don on the CT, but then I'm not riding one either. I look at it this way, if that is what someone wants, including me, then it is my bike, I say ride on. There's a lot of things in this world that seems to be a good idea and people are happy with it, but as with anything else, it's not for everyone. I still have lots of people in my life that can't figure out why I ride a motorcycle to begin with, but they don't put me down because of it. They tell me to be safe because they won't come looking for me...
I like the way you put that!! Its the truth.. =)
+1 |
|
| |