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Fountain Inn, SC United States | There's been some speculation on what will reduce engine heat on the Vision. I'm hoping Lloyd, our resident tech can chime in on this. Specifically, will a stage-1 kit (including a high-flow air filter like K&N) help reduce engine temps. This question came up at the Boston demo ride.
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Cruiser
Posts: 77
| The Majority of Engine heat is created by combustion inside the cylinder head combustion chamber and through the power stroke down the cylinder, radiating through the cylinder and heads cooling fins transfers the heat out ward. That's the easy part. Thats what you feel.
Why so much heat?
Larger engine+More power+more BTU's =more heat.
A restrictive exhaust system keeping temps higher internally, in and around the motor area
Leaner fuel mixtures make more heat
less direct air flow
The Visions engine has more shrouding.
Now what can be done to cool the temps? There are a few easy one's. A stage one up-grade will help slightly but count on things still being lean and still hot. What do firefighters do to put out a fire? They spray water on it. Well that wont help us but in a simpler sense they spray a coolant on the fire, so why dont we? We can! Lets use the coolant thats allready availible in the gas tank and those injectors work real well at spraying. By adding more fuel we can drop engine temps by as much as 30 degrees. Count on 15-25 being the normal and 30 degrees with some closed loop systems. There's also another benefit, HP and Tq increase.
This is what we are faced with now a days, EPA is getting tougher and bikes need to run leaner to pass testing. Harleys have to use what they call a parade lap download to help control rear cylinder heat on 07 models. It shuts off the rear cylinder at idle to reduce heat levels.
Not only does this sound terrible but it adds a harsh thumping at idle. Consider us lucky so far, we dont have to deal with that yet. Of course Victory can always go liquid cooled, that would solve all the issue's, Well, only runability ones. We the American people just love our air cooled bikes.
Lloyd
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Tourer
Posts: 562
SC, Bluffton | Lloyd - 2007-08-27 6:27 PM
Lets use the coolant thats allready availible in the gas tank and those injectors work real well at spraying. By adding more fuel we can drop engine temps by as much as 30 degrees. Count on 15-25 being the normal and 30 degrees with some closed loop systems.
Our 2001-2004 GL1800 Goldwings got a complimentary new ECM from Honda because of
overheating issues. It did have something to do with a richer mixture in 1st gear only.
I wonder how that got EPA approved? I was kind of hoping no radiator meant 1 less thing
to go wrong.  What does closed loop mean? Does that mean it can't be adjusted?
Herb |
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Cruiser
Posts: 77
| As it comes out of the box it is not adjustable, We do have a remedy though. TBR
There will be an up coming article on "closed loop systems" |
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Fountain Inn, SC United States | Well there you have it! What better way to cool the engine than richening it up a touch and get more power as the by-product! It'll be interesting to see how the heat issue plays out once Lloyd get his hands on one and starts tinkering!
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Iron Butt
Posts: 810
| Lloyd,
That was a great explanation. The analogy really helps. One usually doesn't think of an accelerant as coolant, but in this case it is =).
Do you think there will be much room for improvement on the Vision since it has already been stroked? Also, from what I have heard, it is supposed to recalibrate itself when pipes are changed, thus mods might be limited.
Thanks,
Tim |
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New user
Posts: 2
Pocatello Idaho | Why do think there is such a stigma with a liquid cooled engine...seems like a plausible solution to the heat problem especially on a bike with such a large motor and full fairing . The bike is such an out side the box motorcycle in every other sense ..... |
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Puddle Jumper
Posts: 21
D/FW Texas | ...Harleys have to use what they call a parade lap download to help control rear cylinder heat on 07 models. It shuts off the rear cylinder at idle to reduce heat levels.
Not only does this sound terrible but it adds a harsh thumping at idle...
This "parade mapping" is actually an optional download - but only available for the Harley touring models. The first download and (if requested) uninstall, is free. I'm not convinced that it's very effective because it only works when the bike is at a standstill - if the clutch is engaged and you're' moving (even if at only 2-3mph), both cylinders are once again firing. It has been available since the '07 model year and according to the service manager at a local dealership, they have uninstalled more than half of the downloads per owner requests. |
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Visionary
Posts: 1324
So Cal | What about exhausts. I dont know about the rest of the world but in California the stock mufflers on Harleys have had cat. conv.s in the front part of the mufflers for some time now (the first thing that came off, I keep them in the garage, just in case the EPA decides to get picky). Is the Victory similar? If so, do you think the Victory cats will get along with my Harley cats in my garage? Has anyone personally experienced the heat on a Vision? Is it better, or worse than a Harley touring model? |
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Visionary
Posts: 1350
| I noticed the engine heat coming off the Vision on my rides at Sturgis. Of course it was 100+ degrees in the sun. Yes, I felt heat coming up from my '03 V92C Classic when I stopped at the redlights. I tried adjusting the vents the way they told me to at Sturgis and it didn't seem to make a difference to me. I tried moving them during the ride in MA but didn't notice a change. They said they were working on it and Victory has followed through with what they have told me since Blackwell took over. I also own a '99.
2 things come to mind. the first is I have a 28 inch inseam and that may make it difficult to get the heat to move away if the bikes are setup for the "general" public. I learned to live with it over 54 years. The second is perhaps it's like a droplight? Hotter than hell in the summer time and gives off no heat in the cold winter garage. )
I have wondered once Victory decides on the final large wind deflectors that I may have to do some modding for my own situation. Not a big deal. This would be a boring world if we were all the same.
Even with the engine heat I was not uncomfortable. The bike is so nice in all the other categories that this little problem will not stop me from owning one. I will just have talk to Gary Gray about it the next time I see him. )
I did not preorder a Vision because I wanted to make sure my short legs could handle it. Now I know they can. I would have been bummed if it was like the IPhone and the first buyers saw this BIG price drop a month later. I wonder how the price could drop that much? I don't think China dropped the 35 cents an hour wages enough to justify it and most companies say the labor is the biggest expense of a product.
Looking forward to riding my Vision to the Grand Canyon next year. |
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Cruiser
Posts: 223
Valdosta, GA | Any chance there is a tech/geek out there that can reverse engineer the ECM programming and then readjust it so it will maintain a slightly richer mixture or will an additional box be necessary? I would think the lean issue could be easily addressed by an option in the Digital Wrench software (although, I dobt Victory built a feature like that in).
Hmm, so how does one get a copy of the Digital Wrench software and the connecting harness???
Edited by mike s 2007-09-28 3:04 PM
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Cruiser
Posts: 223
Valdosta, GA | Ok, so maybe I'm imagining things here, but I've been riding around on the Vision for a few days now, and there has been a change. The initial ride home caused me some concern with the engine heat. I ran 100 miles at 90*-95* temps and there was considerable amount of heat on my calfs. The second trip (200miles) netted similar results. Yesterday's trip back to Gainesville for the first service wasn't so bad, but it was only in mid-70's. I didn't really think about it on the trip home.
So, today, I take my daughter out for a birthday ride. The bike now has 600 miles on it and it has had it's first oil change. We ran up 70 mph at temps ranging from 75*-90*. Not once today did I notice even the slightest hint of heat from the motor. I even tried moving my feet and legs closer to the motor and there was no change.
Hopefully, the heat issue is just a factor during break-in, but time will tell... |
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Visionary
Posts: 1324
So Cal | Im wondering if the have a break in program for the first few hundred miles to keep the motor from blowing? |
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Reducing engine heat - a technical perspective