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Cruiser
Posts: 111
Prairie Dog Heaven, CO | My wife and I took a ~1000 mile road trip this weekend and I thought I'd post up some impressions of our new 2010 Victory Vision (Bat Bike).
We have a fairly long history of two-up touring on BMW K12LTs and 11xx GSs before that. So I'll be comparing the VV to the LT both from the rider's and passenger's point of view. A comparison with the GS really only makes sense engine-wise as they are both twins but there are so many years between the designs that this does not really make sense. The inadequacy for two-up touring (with a ?non-ruggedized? passenger) on a GS was the reason we had bought our first LT about 9 years ago?
We did not encounter any rain this weekend (but I have solo a week or so ago). Temperatures ranged from 40F to 90F going over a number of 11-12kft mountain passes. We also encountered a nasty traffic jam including a re-route through the woods when we came upon a highway closure yesterday.
Let me say I'm very, very pleased with the Victory Vision. So is my wife even though she says that the rear accommodations are not quite as nice as they were on the LT (emphasis here is on "quite" as she was very comfortable for an ~8 hour ride yesterday). She says that the VV backrest is a bit harder and the seat to peg relationship is a tad little bit tighter (she's 5'11"). On the plus side, the floorboards give more room to move around and the view is a little better since I'm sitting a little lower down.
Wind protection and temperature management is excellent (with the optional lower deflectors). The upper winglets on the VV were copied from BMW (the LT has similar winglets and they were always my favorite as they allow to flow air around your mid-section or completely block it). Excellent. The lower deflectors allowed me to ride with just my Olympia Airglide pants without liners and be comfortable through the entire temp range. When it?s hot and the going is slower, they make a huge difference in how much heat you feel ? they keep you cool when they are adjusted all the way inward. The lowers are a very nice and accessory, and they work extremely well in both cold and hot climates. An electrically adjustable windshield is also a must for a touring bike IMO.
When I rode in driving rain the other day the lowers and uppers, together with the adjustable windshield, will essentially keep you dry as long as you keep moving. Again, I was riding in my Airglide pants and I did not get noticeably wet until stopped at a light close to my house. The VV is even with the LT on this one.
The stock suspension is much better than the LT's. Even though I miss the anti-dive effect of the telelever fork on the Beemer a little, the rear shock makes more than up for that. The air shock on the VV is excellent and very nicely adjustable to load changes. I ran 45 psi in it two-up with light luggage and the bike handled all kinds of mid-turn bumps and nasty frost-hives and dips on the passes very well. Far superior to the stock setup on the LT. No upgrades necessary here (mandatory on the LT when you travel 2-up, IMO).
The ABS brakes are strong but require a little more force on the controls as they are not servo assisted like on the LT. On the plus side, they are much easier to apply gently in parking lots and other tight places.
I very much like the rider?s seating position (much to my surprise - I never thought I would feel comfortable with a feet-forward posture on a bike). I?m 6?2? with a 34 inseam and the ergos are just right for me when I sit on my airhawk. It puts me up about ? inches from sitting on the bare seat, which is perfect for me. That said, I have ridden several hours without the airhawk also and it?s fine. The huge floorboards allow so much moving your feet around that my knees feel like heaven for hours. Riding hard is just as easy/fun as it is with my feet right under my hips, cruising is that much more comfortable. A negative on the VV is the heated seat. My wife loves it, and I really don?t. That wasn?t a problem on the LT as the front and rear were controlled separately. The VV seat is one piece so I will have to get used to it I guess
While the relaxed nature of the VV does slow me down (that was part of why I bought it ? I often rode like an a$$ on the LT) it might be capable of keeping up with an LT in twisty terrain if ridden really hard ? depending on the skill of the rider. The cornering clearance on the VV is certainly sufficient. No contact with the asphalt yet, on the LT I had the centerstand lowers completely ground off to triangles after about 2 weeks. That said, the LT was amazing for a touring bike once moving swiftly (outside of parking lots and camgrounds, where I much prefer the VV because of it?s lower CG).
Long story short I think if I had to follow myself on an LT, I would not quite be able to keep up on the VV. The VV also feels just a tad more cumbersome in the very tightest turns on mountain passes than the LT was (probably a result of the longer wheel base). Doesn?t bother me though as I want to slow down a little.
On the plus side, the VV is more stable in crosswinds (even riding was still interesting in 70+ mph gusts on US285 yesterday).
The transmission of the VV is clunky, and so was the LT tranny. I really like the overdrive on the VV, which gives you one more gear to choose from in the mountains. I always thought the 5-speed in the LT was just barely sufficient.
Fuel economy is about the same, around 50 mpg here at high altitude (which translates into the low 40s at sea level).
The VV?s communication system is much better than the BMW system (had the VOICE and the BMW Comm system II on my LTs). The VOX circuitry is excellent. I also had a Baehr Ultima XL on my first LT which was as good as the VV?s comm system with respect to the VOX circuitry, but the VV stereo sounds much better in the helmets (J&M Elite Headsets). Love the iPod integration ($100 cable) and everything is controlled on the handlebars. Very nice system.
Styling, of course, is in the eye of the beholder but IMO the Vision is by far the most daringly styled touring bike out there and I happen to think it looks ultra-cool. I probably would have bought one even if it had a flaw or two just because of its styling. But it does not seem to have any apparent flaws. At least I have not found any yet. The VV seems to be a very well thought-out and well designed bike.
Reliability will have to be assessed in a few years but it can hardly be any worse than my LTs, which were quite a disaster. Maintenance will be less expensive as there are no valves to adjust, and labor costs at my shop are ~25% lower then at BMW. Oil changes will be less messy
Tires are about the same price but it will be a little more involved to get the wheels off the VV (the Beemers are unbeatable in that department).
One little negative is the black paint on our VV. While it?s nice and shiny in most places, on the front of the right saddle bag and on the sides of the touring trunk the paint has a bit of ?orange skin? appearance. That disappointed me as many on this board have raved about the paint quality. I cannot really agree with that.
My wife and I look forward to many happy miles on our new Bat Bike. |
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Iron Butt
Posts: 742
North Orange County CA | Heated seats on 2008 VV have two, three position (high/off/low) toggle switches to control the heated seats, are you seriously telling me that Victory eliminated a switch on the heated seats for 2010 so that both rider and passenger must be on or off at the same time?
Who would do something like that? What can they cost 40 cents each, at retail? Really!!? On a fleet of 7500 Visions amortizing the savings over the entire length of the production run that would put a whopping $750 on the bottom line annually.
They probably have individual production meetings that cost more than that.
Edited by Tarpits99 2010-09-07 2:17 PM
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Cruiser
Posts: 111
Prairie Dog Heaven, CO | Seems to be my bad - owner's manual says there are 2 switches.... will need to look for the second one tonight - I'm getting old I guess...
That would make the bike just about perfect!
Edited by picard 2010-09-07 3:03 PM
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Cruiser
Posts: 111
Prairie Dog Heaven, CO | I also have no idea why all ' and " came out as question marks.... |
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Cruiser
Posts: 255
New Brunswick , Canada | I have a 2010 VV white pearl...heated seat has 2 three position (high/off/low) switches..both located on the left side of the passenger seat.
their only about 1.5" apart |
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Tourer
Posts: 492
Indianapolis, IN |
Great comparison review picard! My wife and I ride two up on the bike about 70% of the miles to date. She too is 5'11" and doesn't have the problem that some of the shorter wives have with the passenger floor boards being too low. If there is one negative for us it's that her knees get a little tight after a couple hours on the road. (must be and age factor...........  ). Otherwise we are finding the same results you have reported, awesome bike for touring! Enjoy and keep us posted on your comparison thoughts and trip details, makes for good reading. |
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Cruiser
Posts: 51
Edmonton AB, Canada | yup, two switches on my 2010.
I find that the seats heat up nicely but they don't seem to stay hot.
Anyone else notice this? |
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Cruiser
Posts: 111
Prairie Dog Heaven, CO | Once it gets cooler here I'm sure my wife will give me feedback on this. It's very unlikely that I use my seat a lot. The only time I used the heated seat on my LT was when it was 12 degrees out. Not that I enjoy riding in this kind of weather but that was necessary. |
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Cruiser
Posts: 70
Fryeburg ME | Frank, welcome to the Vision, great read enjoyed your review look forward to future installments. |
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Puddle Jumper
Posts: 33
NC | I have just gotten a used 2008 VV and used to have a K1200LT as well. The only advantage I could give the LT was fuel milage which I got what picard said, around 50mpg but my Vision is only hitting 40mpg. I miss those extra miles before searching a gas station. I agree that the LT had a bit of a clunky shifting tranny as well but this Vision is a bit annoying as it seems to have a chatter and whine while accelerating or pulling up hills. 1st and 5th gears seem very quite and no chatter but the rest are pretty obvious to me. I always thought the LT needed a lower 1st gear as I had to ride the clutch longer than any other bike I've had. The LT had nearly no padding in the riders seat especially at the end of a 6150 mile 15 day trip lol. The VV seems well padded and didn't bother me over a 760 mile 2 day trip. Other than the tranny I really like the Vision. Just felt like chimming in on this old thread. |
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Iron Butt
Posts: 1109
| Glad to see a BMW comparison, having owned a Harley and a Goldwing I was wondering how the BMW stacked up. Great article,thank you. |
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Cruiser
Posts: 169
Iowa | A good comparison on the two bikes. Thanks for the review. |
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Cruiser
Posts: 59
Austin Texas Yaaaalll | Nice review. I too have just purchased a 2011 VV. Came from a BMW R1200 Adventure. Hard to compare the 2 head to head as they are very different, but the main reason I bought the Vision was to slow down a little and to get a more relaxed riding position. I agree with your review, although I do not have the Com system and cannot comment on it. I rode on the back of my buddies K1200 GT 350 miles to the dealership where I picked it up in McAlester,OK then we toured SE OK mountains and came home to Austin. It was a very hot ride, 800 miles in one day with temps on the bike showing 108 degrees. The lowers did an amazing job as well as the stock seat. On the GS I would have been standing on the pegs once an hour after 500 miles due to Monkey Butt, but the VV seat was truly comfortable the entire ride. |
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Cruiser
Posts: 130
Houston, Tx | Great review.
2010 Vison here and mine does (as most should have) two separate controls for heated seats. I've heard that they heat up and once they get to a certain temperature they tend to shut off and reheat.... guess that is a safety factor put in. I cannot confirm this as I don't generally use them. As for comfort, I'm more then cozy for hours (may have to try the airhawk for even longer extended times as monkey butt does eventually set in) but the wife seems to get cramps in her knees after just a few hours. It's not the height of the passenger boards, but the fact that they are so close and there is no room to move. I've been trying to find a way to move them out say an inch or find an aftermarket that is designed to be just a bit wider. Anyone know of an alternative passenger board?
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Fountain Inn, SC United States | picard - 2010-09-07 4:04 PM
I also have no idea why all ' and " came out as question marks....
Looks like you pasted it from another program like MS Word. Their ' and " have a different ascii code than the input box for the forums. If you still have the Word file, send it to me and I'll convert it and replace your original post.
jeff@vision-riders.com
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Iron Butt
Posts: 965
New York State | Donna went with Deer Crusher and I to Erie PA ,for Roar on the shore ,5 days on the Vision 1108. miles together and we are still talking.
We were stuffed all three liners but we survived by mailing items home as worn or deemed unneeded.
I saw a Vision with the luggage rack and bit I have one on order.
For two up touring the Vision is a great machine |
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Tourer
Posts: 447
Cleveland, GA | As I understand it, heated seats on low will stay on continuously. On high, they cycle on and off to keep from cooking your ham. |
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Cruiser
Posts: 83
Bolivar Missouri | Great Review . According to the owners manual the High side of heat is only meant to be used for a short period and if ran too long will ruin the foam .... I have had my seat shaved about 1/2 inch for vertical reason's , with that said even on low in temps 15 forsay my keester get's warmed more than well enough . Even with the shaved seat 900 miles in one long day ... Monkey Butt non existed .
Off the subject . Does the Performance Air Filter help any on a stock vision ? Any info would be appreciated .
2010 Pearl White Vision
Edited by BULLDYS 2011-07-28 7:28 PM
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Cruiser
Posts: 100
Hudson, Ohio | BULLDYS - 2011-07-28 8:22 PM
Great Review . According to the owners manual the High side of heat is only meant to be used for a short period and if ran too long will ruin the foam .... I have had my seat shaved about 1/2 inch for vertical reason's , with that said even on low in temps 15 forsay my keester get's warmed more than well enough . Even with the shaved seat 900 miles in one long day ... Monkey Butt non existed .
Off the subject . Does the Performance Air Filter help any on a stock vision ? Any info would be appreciated .
2010 Pearl White Vision
I recently installed the following and noticed a nice pick-up in torque and HP....plus it now sounds like a motorcycle:
D&D slip on mufflers
Ness Twin Sucker air filter set
Lloydz VFC3 fuel controller |
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Cruiser
Posts: 100
Hudson, Ohio | Picard...very nice write up and welcome to VV.
I recently traded in a 2008 Hammer for the 2011 Vision. I bought new because Victory upgraded the tranny and no more clunk and noise. Very nice upgrade.
I can also tell you that the Vision will handle the curves extremely well. I can't speak to comparison with the BMW but I have taken the Vision through very challenging twisties at high speed and it handles great. IMO - It is the most versatile motorcycle made.
Thanks again for the review...cool stuff  |
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Cruiser
Posts: 63
Calgary, AB, | Picard, thanks for the comparison write-up. I was looking at both a 2006 LT and a 2008 Vision, both pristine and with only 8000 and 6100 KM on them respectively. Rode both, but only short distance, and in the end went with the loaded '08 Vision two weeks ago ,since when I've been away on business.
Got in 1 short day so far, but looking forward to more.
Based on what you wrote, and my ride experiences with the higher CG LT unit, I'm very happy with my buy. In the end, I paid about the same for the Vision as I would have had to for that low mileage LT, but 2 years newer.
Thanks for the comparison, from someone who's actually had them its a LOT more meaningful. |
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first two-up tour impressions