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Cruiser
Posts: 95
Alberta, Canada | Just a question?? Why would any one consider a car tire for there bike? There is a definite difference in the design! Bike tires have been scientifically designed for bikes, car tires are designed for cars. The advantage in handling and performance has been well documented when running a bike tire on a bike versus a car tire on a bike. Not to mention safety!! And don't tell me it's a money issue because if you can afford a $25,000. bike why scrimp on tires not designed for a bike. Would you mix and match the tires on your sports car?? |
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Visionary
Posts: 8144
New Bohemia, VA | Plumley, there is only one worse discussion on this board than going to the darkside, and we all know what that is, a rather slick subject. There is hordes and hordes of discussion in numereous threads in this forum and others to get the answer you just asked. It is nothing you will win or lose but rather leave them to their own devices. For every argument against, they'll have 7 for it. Let 'em ride, everybody just ride, get off the forum and go ride, Autumn starts tomorrow and the northern folks are shinning one last time and hibernating the bikes. Harley riders around the nation where the daytime high is dropping to the 60's are putting up their machines, and the southern boys are say "sux to be you, yanks". There's plenty of discussion about what everyones going to do the NEXT season than to rehash the darksider's rationale. |
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Iron Butt
Posts: 935
Rockford, IL | Hmmm....sounds like you have a fairly strong opinion on this subject.
You state "The advantage in handling and performance has been well documented when running a bike tire on a bike versus a car tire on a bike." ...any chance you can provide any links to any of this documentation that will support this statement?
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Visionary
Posts: 3773
Pittsburgh, PA | YouTube the darkside and you can see it in action for your self. The most common reason I've read is tire life... |
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Cruiser
Posts: 95
Alberta, Canada | Quote: About a year ago, in my Quality engineering class, we tested the differences between car tires (Continental 175/65-15) and motorcycle tires (Dunlop 170/80-15). The car tire has a lower coefficient of friction so when the tire locks up, there is less force resisting the slide. The tire will also lock up much easier than a motorcycle tire. The reason car tires do work fairly well on goldwings and valkyries is they weigh more so there is more down force. With equal weight, the motorcycle tire created about 75% more stopping force. So I guess you have to weigh the 15k extra miles per tire versus lost stopping ability. Since 75% of your stopping ability comes from the front tire anyway, you're actually only losing about 20% of your overall stopping power with a car tire. We only tested the braking characteristics, but the same principle should hold for grip while cornering because you still have static friction resisting sliding. |
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Cruiser
Posts: 256
| Ok on your test you mention the coefficient of friction, but did you take into account that the care tire has a larger surface area in contact with the ground due to the design. |
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Visionary
Posts: 3773
Pittsburgh, PA | Not on the vision. But on m last bike. I went to the darkside and the very first day I hit the brakes hard I about went over the bar. I wasn't used to the stopping power. (Good year triple tread 225/55-16). I also hear that not all car tires are created equal as well? Some brag about being better for this and that? |
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Visionary
Posts: 8144
New Bohemia, VA | ...a car tire means relearning...the bottomline is a car tire is different... |
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Cruiser
Posts: 228
| WAIT! WAIT!!!!......OK..........I've got my bucket of popcorn and a sixpack.
Man, do I love these darkside/oil/oil filter threads!!!! |
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Tourer
Posts: 388
Salisbury, NC | Well I just changed my oil and I'm now ready to go riding some more on my darkside equipped Vision while you discuss this topic. ET |
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Visionary
Posts: 1340
Gainesville Fl Home of the Gators | Prime Power - 2010-09-22 5:00 AM
Ok on your test you mention the coefficient of friction, but did you take into account that the care tire has a larger surface area in contact with the ground due to the design.
Yup.....Car tire provides a much larger contact patch in all conditions. Traction is NOT an issue. That said I personally just don't like the feel, but I ride with people that have car tires, and they sacrifce NOTHING when we go to the mountains to ride |
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Visionary
Posts: 8144
New Bohemia, VA | ... I'm neither for or agaist riding on a car tire, I'm just saying it is difference and don't want to... |
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Cruiser
Posts: 65
| I got my coffee... I'm sitting in my chair... I'm ready..... "LETS GET READY TO RUMBLE !!! " |
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Puddle Jumper
Posts: 23
Clarksville, TN / Ft Campbell, KY | I have put Motorcycle tires on my Truck and it handles like shit!!!!!! What was I thinking? |
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Visionary
Posts: 3773
Pittsburgh, PA | How much does your truck weigh and what is the rating on the tire? That's way car tires on bikes last YEARS. On my last bike I went through 2 rear tires a year. When I went to the darkside I had the same tire for 3 years. Then I traders in the bike and got the vision. |
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Tourer
Posts: 444
Bay of Gigs, WA | The BFG All-Terrain T/A's look bitchin' and add a whole 'nuther dimension...noisy, though. |
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Cruiser
Posts: 219
Pittsburgh, PA | I'm a new Vision owner and damn F&^%#$g proud to say so. I picked her up a 2 weeks ago. I joined this forum for insight into this machine. I've been on Victorys since 2000. For the last two weeks I thought going to the darkside meant selling the HD and buying Victory, no I find out it has to do with tires??? |
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Cruiser
Posts: 256
| What you speak of is not going to the darkside but the bright side. You finally saw the light. |
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Tourer
Posts: 394
Tucson, AZ | I don't understand all the theory about radius and losing 20% stopping power and all. All I know is that on my Valkyrie, right before the VV, I could easily lock up the rear tire coming to a quick stop. After I had the car tire installed I never locked it up again. Can't wait for my current rear to wear out so I can have another car tire put on my VV.
Edited by Gray rider 2010-09-22 7:14 PM
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Cruiser
Posts: 215
orrick, mo | You can talk all the studies you want but until you ride the Vision on the darkside you will just never understand. Just like HD riders will never understand why we love our bikes. All I know is if I exit a slow corner and hit the throttle to hard the bike feels like its trying to do a wheelie. The extra traction feels like an extre 5-10hp during hard acceration. I would like to see dragstrip time comparisons between a ct and mt. Sounds like a lot of fun but I just can't get myself to put my baby on the strip yet. |
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Tourer
Posts: 395
Moravia, IA | varyder - 2010-09-22 5:40 AM
...a car tire means relearning...the bottomline is a car tire is different...
re-learning....I think that might be an overstatement.
It is "different".....but not significantly so - more like the difference between two bikes. If you have a decent skill set, enough that you can jump on any random bike and ride it safely.....then its a non-issue.
My girlfriend rides my Dark Vision often....shes had no problems but then she has experience on several bikes. Ive had two people test ride my bike recently and I didnt mention the car tire till they got back.....again, nobody required "relearning" to ride the thing nor did they have issues. In fact they both commented that it handled much better then they thought it would and it seemed lighter at speed then it looks.
....but these were guys that have rode for years, owned many bikes and are smart enough not to jump on a different bike and bounce if off the rev limiter while diving into the corner with their knee down.
different....yes.
re-learning to ride.....not quite.
.....then again all tires, car or motorcycle, are NOT created equal. Ive mounted MC tires on some of my bikes that made them handle and feel like crap.....so perhaps your experience with a Dark Vision was different then mine because of the tire you used or the combo.
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Visionary
Posts: 8144
New Bohemia, VA | what's a forum without rebuttals?
Different? Relearn
Same? No relearning required.
Everytime you get on your bike it is a time of relearning and adapting to the conditions and environment. You all can pick this apart as much as you want, but most people who ride has that ability to do it quickly and often without notice and others don't. But your body on instinct wants you to live so it has to know what to do, and do it. Being Airborne with over 10 years on jump status we went through exactly the same routine everytime so that the body would know by habit what would happen in a parachute malfunction. I liken motorcycle riding to the same thing, every ride is different, I want to live. It took me about two weeks to "learn" how to ride the Vision, even though I took to it like a duck in water right off the bat. I had the "truck wash" experience that I remember right where I was when it happened because it made me very concerned at the time. Once I realized that I was not riding the old chuncky riding GL1200 and I was on a much more sophisticated machine, my body accepted the difference and learned how to ride it. Now since then I have rode past three semi's and a bus with no hands on a windy, big deal, maybe not.
Even as the tires get worn and other components your body learns to adjust. Also, I think that those people who are "afraid" to ride the Vision because it is not the same as their other bike has not yet allow their body to learn it. People who don't like to ride because of one fear or another is probably facing the fact that their body won't learn how to ride.
So I feel that my statement to "relearn" the bike as oppose to learning how to ride is very appropriate in this situation. To me, real motorcycle riding is an art and not simply "hop on and take off". I believe a lot of people riding today have really not "learned" how to ride a bike to begin with and that leads them into situation that will cause them to crash and burn, even after years of riding.
So whether you think that a car tire is better, you cannot deny it is different. For folks like me that are a little slow at everything, it means "relearning" the bikes feel and characteristics in the ride, something that I'm not willing to do just yet, but I wouldn't be afraid to ride it.
Edited by varyder 2010-09-28 5:45 AM
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Iron Butt
Posts: 721
| Well, since the original poster asked a simple question that has yet to be answered, "Why a car tire", if you don't believe me just reread the posts up to mine. I will pipe in now with two cents worth..............
It simply comes down to money, I know you didn't want to hear that but it really is as simple as that. One of the biggest arguments those that run the Darkside will give is longer tire life, oh yeah they will also mention added traction (while straight up and going straight) but it really comes down to tire life and the fact that you can get a car tire for far less than a motorcycle tire and as such then it boils down to simple money.
There, done................. |
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Tourer
Posts: 388
Salisbury, NC | Travelin Man - 2010-09-28 6:16 AM Well, since the original poster asked a simple question that has yet to be answered, "Why a car tire", if you don't believe me just reread the posts up to mine. I will pipe in now with two cents worth.............. It simply comes down to money, I know you didn't want to hear that but it really is as simple as that. One of the biggest arguments those that run the Darkside will give is longer tire life, oh yeah they will also mention added traction (while straight up and going straight) but it really comes down to tire life and the fact that you can get a car tire for far less than a motorcycle tire and as such then it boils down to simple money. There, done................. And having to replace a tire once a season instead of two or three a year does mean a lot to me. ET |
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Visionary
Posts: 8144
New Bohemia, VA | ... thanks for clearing that up T-Man!
after rereading the orginial post, it sounds to me he wanted some debate...
Though I would agree with your comment that it is $$$$s, there are plenty of people that would argue that to the grave as they say that a car tire is far better than a motorcycle tire on a motorcycle. I can't argue their perspective, but when you say it gives it a different ride, I don't want different, I already get the different ride with my Vision just the way it is and the way I like it.
Edited by varyder 2010-09-28 7:59 AM
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Visionary
Posts: 3773
Pittsburgh, PA | Travelin Man - 2010-09-28 6:16 AM
Well, since the original poster asked a simple question that has yet to be answered, "Why a car tire", if you don't believe me just reread the posts up to mine. I will pipe in now with two cents worth..............
It simply comes down to money, I know you didn't want to hear that but it really is as simple as that. One of the biggest arguments those that run the Darkside will give is longer tire life, oh yeah they will also mention added traction (while straight up and going straight) but it really comes down to tire life and the fact that you can get a car tire for far less than a motorcycle tire and as such then it boils down to simple money.
There, done.................
exactly.. like i said in another post. my old bike went to 2 mc tires a year. the tire was close to $200 EACH... i then went to the dark side and had the same CT on it for 3 years! so that math, thats some savings. and not only saving but a lack of hassle for making appointments for a tire replacement. Or when you go on a long trip and your wonder if your tire is good enough for that long trip so you change it early because you have your doubts. that type stuff is why i went to the darkside with my old bike. |
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Why a car tire??