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Tampa, Fl United States | Installed a Bridgestone Potenza 019 Grid 195/55/16
I like it for the following reasons:
Wet Traction is 10x better
Stopping power is 2x better
Handling around corners takes just alittle to get use to,but it handles well
MY Question to Existing DarkSiders is what Tire Pressure are you Running???? |
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Alberta, Canada | I would be very interested in knowing how you arrived at those numbers??? My Dunlops stop amazing well and I can't imagine any tire stopping 10 time better!! |
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Alberta, Canada | Or even 2 times!! lol I still think you are all crazy running car tires on a bike!!! |
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New Bohemia, Va | Plumley - 2010-12-22 11:56 AM
I would be very interested in knowing how you arrived at those numbers??? My Dunlops stop amazing well and I can't imagine any tire stopping 10 time better!!
...it's easy Plumley, just say it and its true!  This statement alone "takes just alittle to get use to" tells me I'm very content with my E3's
Edited by Cap'n Nemo 2010-12-22 12:05 PM
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Alberta, Canada | There are a number of differences between motorcycle tires and car tires. These include speed ratings, the ratio of power to weight, contact of the tires with the road, and how long they last.
Tires for motorcycles are typically rated for higher speeds, unlike tires for cars. Most motorcycles are higher performance vehicles than cars are.
Motorcycle tires have a smaller contact footprint. This refers to how much of a tire is in contact with the ground. Because a motorcycle does not remain upright when cornering, a smaller portion of the tires must bear weight, compared to a car's tires. Also, a car's weight is distributed over four tires, while a motorcycle's weight is carried by only two tires.
For all the stated reasons, motorcycle tires are subject to more wear than car tires and do not last as long. A motorcycle owner can extend the life of his tires by observing the speed limit, maintaining correct tire pressure, not exceeding load limits, and avoiding quick acceleration and hard braking.
Read more: Motorcycle Tires Vs. Car Tires | eHow.com http://www.ehow.com/facts_7614927_motorcycle-tires-vs-car-tires.htm...
Read more: Motorcycle Tires Vs. Car Tires | eHow.com http://www.ehow.com/facts_7614927_motorcycle-tires-vs-car-tires.htm...
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orrick, mo | I run 36psi with the same tire.
Love the darkside and plan to stay there.
Don't knock until you've given it an honest and open minded try. |
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New Bohemia, Va | Personally, if that is what you want to ride, that's good for you and I'm happy for you. I doubt very seriously I will ever go darkside and most likely will never know what I'm missing. I've waited years to get a ride like the Vision has, I'm not willing to change anytime soon. When folks say that the darkside rides different, but you'll "get used to it" says it is not the ride I want.
Hope you ride many miles however you ride!
Edited by Cap'n Nemo 2010-12-22 12:54 PM
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, IA | Good god man all he asked about was psi not for some anti darkside tirade. And y would anyone run sunlike when Metz r 37.3456% better all the way around. Oh ya roflol
Edited by sonicbluerider 2010-12-22 1:32 PM
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Pitt Meadows, BC Canada | sonicbluerider - 2010-12-22 11:26 AM Good god man all he asked about was psi not for some anti darkside tirade I like the "TIREADE" better! Why not add a 3rd wheel for those days when motorcycling is not your thing. Or better yet - a FOURTH!!! Then you would have a nice dune-buggy. I have said this before (as have car tire manufacturers) - if car tires worked better on a bike - then new bikes would come with them. Believe what you want - you know, "toothfairy", "Santa", "RED is the fastest color" - all that stuff. |
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Tampa, Fl United States | sonicbluerider - 2010-12-22 2:26 PM
Good god man all he asked about was psi not for some anti darkside tirade. And y would anyone run sunlike when Metz r 37.3456% better all the way around. Oh ya roflol
Thank You "sonicbluerider"!!!
1st of all I notice people who knock it never tried it & all they can do is copy & paste links
I did my research on the Darkside, went over to gl1800riders.com (honda goldwing site,their front/rear tires are same size as ours)There is over 850 goldwings that went to the Darkside w/nothing but positve info & most said they wish they would have done it sooner & won't go back to a motorcycle tire!!!
Also I visited Youtube & was shown via video camera pointed to rear tire car vs motorcycle tire in turns (contact patch) & felt even more comfortable about the changeover
The 10x stopping power was obviously exaggerated (meant to mean a BiGGGGGGGGG difference)
Any time you make any change, whether its KevinX power package,aftermarket brake pads,shock setting, it all takes alittle time to get use to
Lets not make this an OIL controversy, don't add any NEGATIVE comments if you personally haven't tried it!!
Another thing I notice on a positive note is the bike likes to stay centered & feels (almost feels ,especially when coming to a stop I have built in tip overs) more stable at slow speeds & making U turns
Fred
PS-over 850 Goldwingers can't be wrong especially these type of people usually more conservative, safety consious, & older (usually have been riding longer)
All I ask to the DARKSIDERS the tire pressure
After only a few days & a few hundred miles on the DARKSIDE I won't go back to a motorcycle tire |
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Prairie Dog Heaven, CO | While in your original post you did ask for the tire pressure others are running, you also made - IMO fairly provocative, and not well backed up - statements the effect of which (i.e, getting comments) should not really surprise you.
Edited by picard 2010-12-22 4:07 PM
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Corona, CA | I am one of those Gold Wing Darksiders. Check out the Darkside forum over at GL1800 riders. http://gl1800riders.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=31 I rode for a couple of years with the stock tire on and decided to buy an extra wheel to installed a Dunlop SP 3000 runflat on it and tried it to see if I liked it. ($103 delivered to my door !) I kept the old wheel and tire so in case I didn't like it I could go back.
I sold the old wheel and tire two weeks later.
Last summer we rode over 3000 miles in Yosemite, Sequoia's, King's Canyon and in the Rockies through Pikes Peak, Independence Pass, Rocky Mtn National Park with that tire on. LOTS of switchbacks at sometimes extreme grades and miles and miles and miles from nowhere. Did I mention NO FREAKING GARD RAILS at 12,000 ft + !
The ride was GREAT. I was running the CT at 32psi and it gives a ride that is so much more comfortable and stable. The additional piece of mind of having a run flat tire when you are riding way beyond road side help is comforting especially when you have the wifeal unit on board - a Glock 33 helps too ! I saw The Hills Have Eyes !!
The comments about the feel of the tire is correct. I have ridden this tire in the snow, sleet and rain through these rides and the stability in these conditions is great. I'm not an Iron Butt rider or a ride in the rain type - these are just conditions we got caught in.
On the Wing, it was an additional benefit in that you are held up straighter at stops. The Wing is very top heavy and with a short inseam of 30" you are challenged to keep it stable at low speeds and cornering especially when the wifey is flipping around in back of you taking pix ! This concern is eliminated with the car tire.
The ride is the same as an MC when slabbing it. Turning at slow speed requires a little more aggressive "tip in" to the turn but it's all very stable. You have 3 to 4 times the contact with the road with a CT than you do with a MC and in the turns you are AT LEAST the same - if not more than an MC. �The idea that a car is spreading out the load more so the CT can handle the weight is not correct. A 3000# car has (ideally) 1500# at each corner. The car tires are rated for much higher weight than 1500# so you are very safe in running it on the rear of a Vision that in the rear (ideally) you are running half the total weight. So the safety is there. As far as cornering - have you ever seen a car going through a turn ? The tire is rolling under to the side yet still has all the traction available or it wouldn't turn. The same happens on a Vision. We are not riding these big momma's on the chicken strips all day like the sport bikes.� � There are some VERY aggressive Wing riders in the Southeast that tear up the dragon all the time on their Wings with CT's. Again, check out the Darksiders forum above to see what this is all about.
Darksiders are getting 20000+ miles (and I mean 10K + depending on the riding style) on these tires without any reported problems.
When I went to the Darkeside I wondered why I waited. The difference was THAT dramatic. I am going to run out the MC tire on my 08 because it was new when I got the bike used but a CT is going on after that - probably before next summer as we have plans to go to South Dakota and Yellowstone. I don't want to be way out there without a runflat tire !
I agree with the comment above - don't knock it until you have ridden one !
Edited by team5150 2010-12-22 4:16 PM
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New Bohemia, Va | Are darksiders now a politically protected minority? |
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Bay of Gigs, WA | Heck, sometimes I think the Vision is more car than bike anyway, what with the temp, mileage, heated grips, seats, etc. Why not shoes too?
Last summer I had a new Metzler Marathon spooned on in Medford, OR when I discovered three cuts in the Dunlop while a long way from the house for a little under $300.00. Trust me on this, if I'd known about Honda Fit tires then, I'd have had a bit more cash to spend at the casinos along the road than I did, and I'd be expecting 60,000 miles to boot! |
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Bay of Gigs, WA | Now I just need to know what kind of oil to use when I go to the darkside.... => |
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Corona, CA | As far as side loading . . . 
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Tampa, Fl United States | turbobuick - 2010-12-22 3:23 PM
sonicbluerider - 2010-12-22 2:26 PM
Good god man all he asked about was psi not for some anti darkside tirade. And y would anyone run sunlike when Metz r 37.3456% better all the way around. Oh ya roflol
Thank You "sonicbluerider"!!!
1st of all I notice people who knock it never tried it & all they can do is copy & paste links
I did my research on the Darkside, went over to gl1800riders.com (honda goldwing site,their front/rear tires are same size as ours)There is over 850 goldwings that went to the Darkside w/nothing but positve info & most said they wish they would have done it sooner & won't go back to a motorcycle tire!!!
Also I visited Youtube & was shown via video camera pointed to rear tire car vs motorcycle tire in turns (contact patch) & felt even more comfortable about the changeover
The 10x stopping power was obviously exaggerated (meant to mean a BiGGGGGGGGG difference)
Any time you make any change, whether its KevinX power package,aftermarket brake pads,shock setting, it all takes alittle time to get use to
Lets not make this an OIL controversy, don't add any NEGATIVE comments if you personally haven't tried it!!
Another thing I notice on a positive note is the bike likes to stay centered & feels (almost feels ,especially when coming to a stop I have built in tip overs) more stable at slow speeds & making U turns
Fred
PS-over 850 Goldwingers can't be wrong especially these type of people usually more conservative, safety consious, & older (usually have been riding longer)
All I ask to the DARKSIDERS the tire pressure
After only a few days & a few hundred miles on the DARKSIDE I won't go back to a motorcycle tire
Also forgot to mention,Gravel or loose Dirt is easily handled w/the car tire vs motorcycle tire(doesn't slide out from under me)
STILL LOOKING FOR INPUT ON TIRE PRESSURES!!!! |
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Tucson, AZ | Let chime in on this discussion. I do not have a car tire on my Vision. The ONLY reason I do not is because I haven't worn out my E-3 yet. When I do do the Potenza will be installed. On my previous bike, 2000 Honda Valkyrie, I ran two Potenzas totaling over 38,000 miles. When I traded her in for the VV, the Potenza still had at least 50% tread left. I am a true believer. Rain traction and rear brake stopping is superior. Are there slight handling differences? Sure, but nothing major or something that can't be learned in a short period of time. With the car tire I feel safer and more confident. If you want more testimony, go to the VRCC site and read some of Smokin Joe's posts. This guy has worn more car tires on his Valkyrie than you can count. And as far as motorcycle companies not putting car tires on their bikes, what did makers of the Boss Hoss install before the Avon 300 came out?
I rest. |
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Rancho Cucamonga, CA | Does going dark void warranties? |
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Central Wisconsin | turbobuick - 2010-12-22 8:44 AM ... ...MY Question to Existing DarkSiders is what Tire Pressure are you Running???? For 2up I run 38 lbs in the rear and 38 in the front. 
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Pitt Meadows, BC Canada | You Darksiders are "Cheap and Proud"!
Gotta Luv 'Ya !!! But NEVER join 'Ya !!!
Who says the Minority is never right, 'eh? If 6% of the Wing Riders think Darkside is Best - that's gotta mean something....
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Prairie Dog Heaven, CO | Thomas - 2010-12-22 6:41 PM
turbobuick - 2010-12-22 8:44 AM ... ...MY Question to Existing DarkSiders is what Tire Pressure are you Running???? ? ?For 2up I run 38 lbs in the rear and 38 in the front. ? ?
Your passenger looks a little concerned there.... |
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Salinas, Ca. | Thank you TurboBuick for your posts.. I went to the Darkside about 10K ago and am completely satisfied with the decision. I too get a lot of flak from my brothers (one for riding a Vic, two for riding a Vision and now for running a CT) but I just laugh about it now. They all have seen my bike perform in all types of conditions and scenarios and quite honestly that has proven to them the worth of my bike and its crazy car tire. Anyway, time to get back on topic. I usually run my air pressure around 42 to 44 psi.. I like the firmer feeling the tire has those pressures. I ran it around 38 for awhile but it felt a bit squishy to me. |
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Pitt Meadows, BC Canada | We gotta run a test to see how many Darksiders there are who also believe in Conspiracies! I bet most of them believe Osama is still the only President born in France!
WOW ! Who would have thought bike riders know more than the folks who build them - that car tires are better than bike tires! WOW! You guys....
Come on - it's Christmas - and I am a little pissed - ..... but .... everything I have heard from scientists for fifty years - they all lie to me? |
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Corona, CA | donetracey - 2010-12-22 11:21 PM
We gotta run a test to see how many Darksiders there are who also believe in Conspiracies! I bet most of them believe Osama is still the only President born in France!
WOW ! Who would have thought bike riders know more than the folks who build them - that car tires are better than bike tires! WOW! You guys....
Come on - it's Christmas - and I am a little pissed - ..... but .... everything I have heard from scientists for fifty years - they all lie to me?
Wow ! You sound like the Gold Wing non believers - 830 people ago !!
<>
Do you still believe global warming is caused by people and money grubbing companies are trying to to rip off everyone ?? Al Gore's carbon trading company comes to mind.
Edited by team5150 2010-12-23 2:20 AM
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Moravia, IA | donetracey - 2010-12-22 1:36 PM
Why not add a 3rd wheel for those days when motorcycling is not your thing. Why not... Does riding on 3 wheels make me LESS of a motorcyclist then you?
While I do ride both in the winter....when the snow is deep or its icy then the Ural comes out and the Vision stay away.
As for the car tire - I run 35 psi in my Bridgestone Potenza. I didnt assign it any numbers like the original poster....but its easy to tell there is more grip there....you can feel it. Launch hard on MC tires....you get spin. Do it on a car tire, it hooks up and the front wheel eases of the ground. Ive got a corner in front of my house Im so used to riding that I can step the rear end out powering out of it....on MC tires. Tried that after I went to the car tire and it hooked up....lightened the front tire.....and I ended up in the neighbors yard. Same story in the rain......hammer on the brakes with the MC tire.....they lock and you get skid. Do it with a car tire and you just stop. Thats good enough for my comprehension of "grip" for me to ascertain that I have more now then I did with the Elite 3's. Is it for everyone...well no, of course not. Do they put car tires on new motorcycles....well, they have before. Boss Hoss motorcycles used to come out from the factory with car tires on them. ......and motorcycles have been riding around on square'r tires then my Bridgestone Potenzas for a loooong time with no problems. Check out that "motorcycle tire" on the right there.
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Tampa, Fl United States | aaronrkelly - 2010-12-23 6:37 AM
donetracey - 2010-12-22 1:36 PM
Why not add a 3rd wheel for those days when motorcycling is not your thing. ? ? Why not... Does riding on 3 wheels make me LESS of a motorcyclist then you?
?
While I do ride both in the winter....when the snow is deep or its icy then the Ural comes out and the Vision stay away.
? As for the car tire - I run 35 psi in my Bridgestone Potenza. ? I didnt assign it any numbers like the original poster....but its easy to tell there is more grip there....you can feel it. Launch hard on MC tires....you get spin.? Do it on a car tire, it hooks up and the front wheel eases of the ground. Ive got a corner in front of my house Im so used to riding that I can step the rear end out powering out of it....on MC tires.? Tried that after I went to the car tire and it hooked up....lightened the front tire.....and I ended up in the neighbors yard. Same story in the rain......hammer on the brakes with the MC tire.....they lock and you get skid.? Do it with a car tire and you just stop. Thats good enough for my comprehension of "grip" for me to ascertain that I have more now then I did with the Elite 3's. Is it for everyone...well no, of course not. Do they put car tires on new motorcycles....well, they have before.? Boss Hoss motorcycles used to come out from the factory with car tires on them. ......and motorcycles have been riding around on square'r tires then my Bridgestone Potenzas for a loooong time with no problems.? Check out that "motorcycle tire" on the right there.
? ?
I couldn't have said it better as far as putting the car tire in perspective to your motorcycle experience
Thanks for your input on tire pressure!!
Merry Xmas!!!
FRED |
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Tucson, AZ | BTW, I ran 32 psi on my Valkyrie. The VV is a heavier bike so I'll start out at 34, and go from there. |
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Central Wisconsin | picard - 2010-12-22 10:56 PM Thomas - 2010-12-22 6:41 PM turbobuick - 2010-12-22 8:44 AM ... ...MY Question to Existing DarkSiders is what Tire Pressure are you Running???? ? ?For 2up I run 38 lbs in the rear and 38 in the front. ? ? Your passenger looks a little concerned there.... Your probably right, that pic is from the dragon US129. She kept howling slow down something was scraping. LOL!
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Cold Lake Alberta Canada | I run my potenza at 34 psi and it works great for me. If you are into the Dark Side then cool. If not I can respect that too. But I will never own a MC rear tire again. |
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Moravia, IA | Jim Millington - 2010-12-24 12:50 AM
I run my potenza at 34 psi and it works great for me. If you are into the Dark Side then cool. If not I can respect that too. But I will never own a MC rear tire again.
Im a hardcore darksider but even I wont say that.
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......cause I run a rear MC tire on the front of the Vision - FAR better wear.  |
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Fargo, ND | Mine works great... 
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Akron, Ohio | I switched at the end of the summer. Didn't get a chance to get a tone of miles on, but like and am going to stay Dark. I started out with 32psi and for me that was too soft. I went to 38psi and now run that front and rear and like it very well.
I am supprised that no one else cought this in the January 2011 Rider Magazine. On page 12 in the add for the Bushtec Trailer pulled by Laura Klock, who was the pilot of the original "WORLDS FASTEST BAGGER", look at the rear tire of her bike....yup, a car tire. Guess this means they are SAFE for HIGH SPEED. Just an observation.
And for those who don't have the magazine, she rides a Victory Vision.
Edited by handyhiker 2010-12-24 11:17 AM
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Moravia, IA | handyhiker - 2010-12-24 11:15 AM
I am supprised that no one else cought this in the January 2011 Rider Magazine. On page 12 in the add for the Bushtec Trailer pulled by Laura Klock, who was the pilot of the original "WORLDS FASTEST BAGGER", look at the rear tire of her bike....yup, a car tire. Guess this means they are SAFE for HIGH SPEED. Just an observation.
Nah......means nothing.
See in all my dealings with riders Ive learned one thing about those that are anti-darkside.
They will NEVER believe that a car tire has any place on a motorcycle unless they hear it from a MC manufacturer or a tire company.....and maybe it would have to be both.
Thousands of people using them with great results and the absolute lack of reports of any failures means nothing to them.
Some people can think for themselves.....some cant.
You cant make one into the other. |
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New Bohemia, Va | I'm not a naysayer, it's just not for me at this time. I do question given a skilled rider under exact circumstances that one would out do themself on a CT vs MT? If that be the case the track racer bikes would be using them wouldn't they?
I applaud those who run a CT and put them to the test. It speak more to you as a rider than using a CT. Also, look at all that money you save and time not having to change tires so often.
Edited by Cap'n Nemo 2010-12-24 11:45 AM
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Akron, Ohio | I run a CT. However I really doubt that you will ever see one on a race bike that does hard lean angles. On drag bikes you can't beat them. The folks that started using them were the heavy cruisers with limited lean angle. They are great for this, but do have a limited use for other bikes. I truly believe that if the Vision had much more of a lean angle, I would not use one. Just as I could never see putting one on my old V-Strom. However I did just wear out the center of the tires on that bike. (Damm straight roads in northern Ohio). |
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Moravia, IA | Cap'n Nemo - 2010-12-24 11:41 AM
I'm not a naysayer, it's just not for me at this time. I do question given a skilled rider under exact circumstances that one would out do themself on a CT vs MT? If that be the case the track racer bikes would be using them wouldn't they?
The darkside is not for sport bikes. Ive seen car tires on sport TOURING bikes....but never on a sport bike.
The Vision (and MOST) street bikes cannot attain lean angles sharp enough to cause problems on a car tire. There simply isnt enough available lean there - hard parts will keep you from running out of "tread".
A sport bike CAN.....a MotoGP bike CAN......thats why you wont see them on race bikes. You wouldnt even need to be THAT good of a rider to lean a sport bike over far enough to run out of "tread" on a car tire.
Put a skilled rider on a Vision with car tire vs Vision with a MC tire......THAT would be a far comparison. Then again, whats the point. As those of us running car tires arent in it to "shave a few seconds" off lap times so why stick the bike on a track - thats not its purpose.
We need to measure something else.......stuff like grip in all weather conditions, ride ability, weight handling, ride etc. These things are much better experience on actual roads during rides then on a track or under controlled environments.
I guess what Im trying to say is that someone that will put a car tire on a bike and ride it across the country is more of a resource on information then someone who has ridden one on a track or around the block.
Real riders can give you all the information you need. Read on any of the forums that deal with touring - there is PLENTY of info out there.
Decide for yourself if its for you.......
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Corona, CA | One other very important issue is that you can get a CT with runflat capabilities !
That is worth it right there for me. |
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Corona, CA | 
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Pitt Meadows, BC Canada | You Darksiders are a riot! Lots of fun! Hell - some of you probably believe most of your braking comes from the rear. Slays me! Keep it up ... !!! |
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Pitt Meadows, BC Canada | OH~ I forgot. I have driven a Boss Hawg - 400HP Vette engine. How many of you had done that? And tell me how much fun it was to make it TURN????
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Pitt Meadows, BC Canada | donetracey - 2010-12-24 7:42 PM OH~ I forgot. I have driven a Boss Hawg - 400HP Vette engine. How many of you had done that? And tell me how much fun it was to make it TURN???? Me and my now deceased Wonderful Co-Pilot.... Merry Christmas ALL !
(BossHawg.jpg)
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Moravia, IA | donetracey - 2010-12-24 9:40 PM
You Darksiders are a riot! Lots of fun! Hell - some of you probably believe most of your braking comes from the rear. Slays me! Keep it up ... !!!
I assure you alot of the time most of my braking does come from the rear.....especially when your towing a camping trailer in a downpour.....hit the front brakes and that tire locks VERY easily. Murphys Law dictates that when I want to go camping....it rains.
donetracey - 2010-12-24 9:42 PM
OH~ I forgot. I have driven a Boss Hawg - 400HP Vette engine. How many of you had done that? And tell me how much fun it was to make it TURN????
Never have....but Ive ridden a GL1800 and the Vision with car tires....turns just fine. Perhaps your letting your car tire experience with that huge toad cloud your judgment. I can assure you the Vision handles much better. The car tire on that Boss Hoss goes to the extreme......thats a huge car tire.
If anyone has ever rode a custom chopper with a wide motorcycle tire......its actually WORSE then the car tire on the Vision....by far.
Merry Christmas to you to.  |
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Fargo, ND | Even Harley is getting in on the idea...better get one while the getting is good (car tire that is)! 
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| Always ran 34 psi in the DS tires.
A couple things I've learned or rather noticed over the many years I've been tossing a leg over the saddle.
First is folks will defend and make up just about anything to justify their choices. Second they'll go to extreme measures to insult anyone who might disagree with their choice.
So my thoughts are the following on Darkside use; Run it if you want to, but seat of the pants isn't science and you might just want to refer to the experts when it comes to matters of science. So with that said the Darksiders are correct the DS tire does feel more planted, is less likely to break loose on dry pavement under excel, and will handle pretty much the same in MOST respects to a MC tire provided you haven't gone too extreme on width. However as stated earlier this is a seat of the pants observation and not AT ALL scientific. In fact the DS tire gets worse grip due to stiffer rubber compounds & sidewalls, hydroplanes under ALL wet conditions, and has a much lighter foot print due entirely to the width of the contact patch. The aforementioned are not opinion they are science. They aren't rated for the bikes weight, or traction requirements, and the flat & wide nature of the tire create a surface which coupled with the low weight of a motorcycle, even a heavy like the Vision, make for the perfect skate.
Now this is not to dampen anyones spirits with regard to running a DS tire, hell the early bikes all ran car tires. However technology has moved far beyond those early days of motorcycling to an era when the best possible materials and science have produced tires specific to the activity. That means ride your bike with the DS tire if you choose to, and enjoy the benefits of them, but always be aware of the shortcomings associated as well. Quite frankly I see the arguments both for and against, thats why I've run DS and run MC specific through my 40+ riding years. Riding isn't a one size fits all, so to toss insults serves no one.
I guess I'm saying if you feel the need to JUSTIFY, you have some doubts. So always consider the assertion and the question, there is likely some fact in both. Know where that truth lies which in turn should make you a safer and better informed rider. |
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Corona, CA | "hydroplanes under ALL wet conditions"
You seriously think this tire
hydroplanes less than this tire ???? �  �
� I count twice as many groves in the CT. They are DESIGNED to channel water from under the tire. unlike an MC tire. Just look at the pure physics of� the design. " 1) In fact the DS tire gets worse grip due to stiffer rubber compounds & sidewalls, 2) hydroplanes under ALL wet conditions, and has a much lighter foot print due entirely to the width of the contact patch. The aforementioned are not opinion they are science. 3)They aren't rated for the bikes weight, or traction requirements, and 4)the flat & wide nature of the tire create a surface which coupled with the low weight of a motorcycle, even a heavy like the Vision, make for the perfect skate." " The aforementioned are not opinion they are science" This is your opinion not fact.
1) I have run Kumho's on my Porsche and Vette that will stick FAR better than any MC tire. 2) lighter footprint. You are confusing tire loading with traction. The fact is the more rubber on the road the better the traction PERIOD. How light is a top fuel funny car and how wide are their tires ?? If your "fact" was correct they would be running front runner tires on the rear ! 3) Tire don't care where they are installed. their rating is for weight & traction PERIOD.
4) A "skate" can only happen when you have a solid surface riding on top of the water. The grooves in the tires are designed to channel water from the contact area under the tire and expel it to the sides of the tire thereby increasing traction AND stopping power.
Edited by team5150 2010-12-25 9:03 PM
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New Bohemia, Va | Having rode in some nasty downpours for many miles on a MC tire, I've never felt it hydroplane, and that is running 70+ mph on rolling interstates. Again, that is on the E3s. In the same conditions I have felt my cage hydroplane more than I want to admit.
I don't doubt the claims of stopping and stability of the type of tires folks are running on their bikes, but the only benefit that I'm convinced of is the longevity and the cost comparison. I personally don't like the "difference" spoken of as I love the way my Vision rolls with the stock tires. |
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Rancho Cucamonga, CA | For those that don't haul trailers behind their bikes, yes, most of your braking comes from the rear tire when towing. I could stand on my brake pedal when towing and not get the rear to skid. Touch the front brake and you would go sliding off the side of the road. Been there, done that. Something they don't teach in an advanced riders course.
As far as hydroplaning, the wider the tire, the more it's going to hydroplane given the same load. This has nothing to do with traction or surface contact area. It has everthing to do with leading edge displacement. All tires will have relatively the same surface contact area given they run at the same PSI and the same load. The differnce is the shape of the contact patch. A narrow long patch has less water it must displace because the leading edge removes it and the rest of the patch follows clear from water. A wide, short patch has more water it must displace and a higher tendancy to plane. Think of a bicycle tire. Very narrow, terrible traction but almost impossible to hydroplane.
Conversley, if you put your bike into a skid, a wider tire will do better at slowing because more tire will come into contact with a surface not already covered by melted rubber. |
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Tampa, Fl United States | Cap'n Nemo - 2010-12-25 10:51 PM
Having rode in some nasty downpours for many miles on a MC tire, I've never felt it hydroplane, and that is running 70+ mph on rolling interstates. Again, that is on the E3s. In the same conditions I have felt my cage hydroplane more than I want to admit.
I don't doubt the claims of stopping and stability of the type of tires folks are running on their bikes, but the only benefit that I'm convinced of is the longevity and the cost comparison. I personally don't like the "difference" spoken of as I love the way my Vision rolls with the stock tires.
Still, you go on disputing or argueing about CT w/ no experience. When MY orginal post was asking about "What Tire Pressure are the Darksiders running, Period!!!
If you really want to add any substance to my posting, come to the Darkside, then share your experience(like tire pressure which was the orginal basis of this post!!)
Your inexperience lacks any input on this topic
By no means is this supose to get into a pissing contest,lets just stick to my orginal(initial) TOPIC
TIRE PRESSUREEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE!!!! |
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Moravia, IA | Cap'n Nemo - 2010-12-25 9:51 PM
I don't doubt the claims of stopping and stability of the type of tires folks are running on their bikes, but the only benefit that I'm convinced of is the longevity and the cost comparison. I personally don't like the "difference" spoken of as I love the way my Vision rolls with the stock tires.
To put this "difference" into perspective.....follow along.
Every time you put new tires on your bike there is a difference. Weather its a fresh pair of E3s.....or perhaps a different pair of motorcycle specific tires - your bike is going to handle "different" then it did before.
Its impossible for it not to.....how different depends. If you ride on your E3s till they get close to the wear bars and your experience was like mine your already riding on some fairly "out of round" tires before you change. The 2 pairs of E3s I had on my bike got very square in the middle fairly quickly....Id say within the 4K to 5K miles.
Go to a pair of NEW E3s and it handles like a dream again.....but it didnt last long.
Switched from the "out of round" worn E3s to the car tire and handling improves. Comparing a NEW E3 to a car tire - there is a "difference".....but not significant and no different then any other tire change exhibits.
The difference isnt drastic.....in fact Ive had people ride my bike and they didnt even know there was a car tire under there till I told them.
So in order for me to keep that "light, new" motorcycle tire feeling Id change tires every 4K.....thats not going to work.
The car tire doesnt wear like the MC tire.....so its stays fairly static in handling characteristics. It basically handles like a slightly worn or used E3 (my personal comparison....perhaps your riding style doesnt wear tires like mine).
Ive got 30K miles on my Vision since this April.......perhaps you dont ride as much, dont pull a trailer......dont ride thousands of miles in a weeks time. Perhaps the E3 works for you.
It doesnt for me.
If you absolutely MUST have that superb handling a brand new MC tire exhibits.....you wont like the car tire.
However if you can live with the handling a worn MC tire exhibits and would like to only change tires every 25K to 30K.....well then perhaps a car tire would work for you.
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Akron, Ohio | It is funny how many folks run things in or on there motorcycle that is not motorcycle specific. And for every one who does this there are always those who say that if it not designed specifically for a bike it has no place on one. So this means that my car tire is going to kill me, my truck specific motor oil is going to lock up the engine, my car specific oil filter will either fail or let too much dirt bypass, my automotive GPS will get me lost, my automotive air horn won't blow and I'll crash into a car, my car wash and wax will damage the paint, my automotive brake fluid will cause the brakes not to work. I think you get the idea. If you truly look at data, a CT meets the load, speed and temperature ratings. Does it say on the sidewall, DO NOT USE ON A MOTORCYCLE? OK, my early morning rant is done. |
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New Bohemia, Va | turbobuick - 2010-12-22 8:44 AM
Installed a Bridgestone Potenza 019 Grid 195/55/16
I like it for the following reasons:
Wet Traction is 10x better
Stopping power is 2x better
Handling around corners takes just alittle to get use to,but it handles well
MY Question to Existing DarkSiders is what Tire Pressure are you Running????
Grant it, you did only ask one question, but you make 3 statements. In all of my post I do not believe I was putting any one down for riding the darkside, in fact I applaude you for doing so. I'm just making a statement that the one thing that will keep me from going dark side is "Handling around corners takes just alittle to get use to,but it handles well"
and in the following post:
"If you absolutely MUST have that superb handling a brand new MC tire exhibits.....you wont like the car tire." My statements should not put a damper on anyone going darkside that desires to do so, and it seems that most all of the folks that have gone DS absolutely love it for them to defend it so vehemently. I know there are others who feel the same way that I do, and others who will never return to a motorcycle tire once they had a taste of the darkside. Reading and responding to darkside post has helped me greatly to make my own educated decision without ever trying it. In our world there are tons of decisions you have made without actually trying based off collective responses from others. I had an older brother that I learned a lot from, mostly what not to get caught doing and definetely those things I should never try. Here's to hoping for many happy (s)miles to one and all for the coming year, regardless of what tire you ride and on what bike. aaronrkelly - 2010-12-25 11:28 PM
Cap'n Nemo - 2010-12-25 9:51 PM
I don't doubt the claims of stopping and stability of the type of tires folks are running on their bikes, but the only benefit that I'm convinced of is the longevity and the cost comparison. I personally don't like the "difference" spoken of as I love the way my Vision rolls with the stock tires.
To put this "difference" into perspective.....follow along.
Every time you put new tires on your bike there is a difference. Weather its a fresh pair of E3s.....or perhaps a different pair of motorcycle specific tires - your bike is going to handle "different" then it did before.
Its impossible for it not to.....how different depends. If you ride on your E3s till they get close to the wear bars and your experience was like mine your already riding on some fairly "out of round" tires before you change. The 2 pairs of E3s I had on my bike got very square in the middle fairly quickly....Id say within the 4K to 5K miles.
Go to a pair of NEW E3s and it handles like a dream again.....but it didnt last long.
Switched from the "out of round" worn E3s to the car tire and handling improves. Comparing a NEW E3 to a car tire - there is a "difference".....but not significant and no different then any other tire change exhibits.
The difference isnt drastic.....in fact Ive had people ride my bike and they didnt even know there was a car tire under there till I told them.
So in order for me to keep that "light, new" motorcycle tire feeling Id change tires every 4K.....thats not going to work.
The car tire doesnt wear like the MC tire.....so its stays fairly static in handling characteristics. It basically handles like a slightly worn or used E3 (my personal comparison....perhaps your riding style doesnt wear tires like mine).
Ive got 30K miles on my Vision since this April.......perhaps you dont ride as much, dont pull a trailer......dont ride thousands of miles in a weeks time. Perhaps the E3 works for you.
It doesnt for me.
If you absolutely MUST have that superb handling a brand new MC tire exhibits.....you wont like the car tire.
However if you can live with the handling a worn MC tire exhibits and would like to only change tires every 25K to 30K.....well then perhaps a car tire would work for you.
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Corona, CA | ---As far as hydroplaning, the wider the tire, the more it's going to hydroplane given the same load. This has nothing to do with traction or surface contact area. It has everthing to do with leading edge displacement. All tires will have relatively the same surface contact area given they run at the same PSI and the same load. The differnce is the shape of the contact patch. A narrow long patch has less water it must displace because the leading edge removes it and the rest of the patch follows clear from water. A wide, short patch has more water it must displace and a higher tendancy to plane. Think of a bicycle tire. Very narrow, terrible traction but almost impossible to hydroplane.---
Oh so I guess all the F1 cars should be running bicycle width tires when they encounter rain ! Don't think so.
Edited by team5150 2010-12-26 2:18 PM
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Wichita, Kansas | I am sitting here stunned disbelief of all the crap the darksiders are taking for not using "what the engineers thought was best" on the VV. As an engineer that designs components for $15,000,000 aircraft, I can tell you what engineers think. We want the best part that will satisfy the most people. Not the fanciest, not the cheapest (usually), not the only one made in some specific place, or one that appeals to only 6% of my customer base. I pick the part that satisfies the most customers right out of the box. If I make a good enough product, many people will buy it and then go to one of the many aftermarket shops and have something added or changed out if they want something different. My guess is that Victory works the same way. Riders on this forum have talked about changing brake pads, front forks, steering geometry, lighting, brands of MC tires, exhausts, engine parts, and (may the motorcycle gods forgive me for saying this) even oil. All of those things have potential safety implications and have never raised a commotion like this (OK, maybe the oil did). If everyone is so convinced that the engineers got it perfect and it shouldn't be changed, KevinX, Ness, and many others would be out of business and all our bikes would look alike. If someone is willing to put his money and his ass on the line for something different, that is his privilege as the owner of the bike and his, dare I say it, his right.
This is no different than guys who want to put cams, pipes or chrome on their bikes. Go wail on them for a while. Although, I've got to admit the flame wars make for some interesting reading at times, and I expect this post will draw it's share. Merry Christmas to all and God Bless America.
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Pitt Meadows, BC Canada | You folks are still amusing the hell out of me! Keep it up....
And I agree with everything all of you said - even what I said.
And our right to say it - what I have learned from all this is that I will NEVER be a Darksider. Without this thread - I might have tried it one day. THANKS!
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Prairie Dog Heaven, CO | Thomas - 2010-12-23 6:33 PM
picard - 2010-12-22 10:56 PM Thomas - 2010-12-22 6:41 PM turbobuick - 2010-12-22 8:44 AM ... ...MY Question to Existing DarkSiders is what Tire Pressure are you Running???? ? ?For 2up I run 38 lbs in the rear and 38 in the front. ? ? Your passenger looks a little concerned there.... Your probably right, that pic is from the dragon US129. She kept howling slow down something was scraping. LOL!
I know what that sounds like! Passengers seem to do that :-)
Edited by picard 2010-12-28 12:17 PM
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not far from hustler wisconsin | Good thing we are all friendly here. no one got banned or scrapped making this thread......
oh, and I will let you know how darksiding works for me...i need a new rear and will give the Potenza a try.
What model is it again? |
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Moravia, IA | wibiker - 2010-12-29 8:49 PM
Good thing we are all friendly here. no one got banned or scrapped making this thread......
oh, and I will let you know how darksiding works for me...i need a new rear and will give the Potenza a try.
What model is it again?
G019 Grid....
185/55-16 works better if your using a hitch and towing as it gives you just a bit more clearance....but its not AS common you may have to order it and wait a few days
195/55-16 is common and in stock most places.......fine if your not running a hitch.
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Tampa, Fl United States | wibiker - 2010-12-29 9:49 PM
Good thing we are all friendly here. no one got banned or scrapped making this thread......
oh, and I will let you know how darksiding works for me...i need a new rear and will give the Potenza a try.
What model is it again?
G019 GRID
Edited by turbobuick 2010-12-30 4:58 AM
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dinwiddie, va | I can say that I do not and will not run a car tire on my Vision. But as a Vic Tech, have installed and ridden a few miles on the Potenza. Because of the idea that the tire isn't designed nor belongs on a motorcycle, I have my customers sign a waiver before I install the tire. The tire does fit perfectly on the bike. I took an extended test ride on thiese bikes on some good twisty roads and highways. For the highways and straights they ride very well.... Obviously they would. As for the twisties, I was very uneasy knowing there was a car tire with no pitch and alot of sidewall under me. You have to push the Potenza into the corners much like a wide tire bike. It is pretty twitchy in hard corners. I come from a background of past and present Motocross riding and past thorough sport bike mileage that loved the twisties. So I am rarely nervous on anything I ride. As a Tech I ride something different every day and can adapt pretty easily to anything. I can't say I would ever recommend this setup to anyone. But to each their own, do what makes you happy. Just be careful and ride safe |
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Billings, MT | I find my best performance is at 41 PSI! |
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| look great 2 BIG SIX |
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New Orleans, La, | If you've done all of the things it takes to get max milage and safety out of a m/c designed tyre and stil have an issue with the tyre life span and all you're concerned is increased milage and decreased cost of the rear tyre on a vehicle that is not even your basic means of transportation, then I guess a DS is what you need and should do. I bought my VV because Victory had established a reputation for building the best handling crusier style bikes available to the public so why would I want to change that by using a car tyre on it? Then I consider my tyres and their condition as my health and well being part of my motorcycle life insurance. Consider if you buy a 250,000.00 house would you insure it for 20,000.00 with a policy designed for a tool shed just because it's cheaper in the long run even though its' performance in the event of a situation would be iffy at best or would need to be modified on the fly to resemble a home policy? I run m/c tyres because my life depends on just those two contact patches and what their attached to. The guy that figured out the differences between the two tyres and concluded that the vehicles they should be used on exhibited and exerted differences stresses and forces in the course of their respective operation and because the company he works for requires him to have a 5 yr. BS degree minimum and they pay him 6 figures for his work along with the fact that if car tyres were equally as good on both vehicles companies would only manufacture car tyres and market them for m/c use who am I to declare a car tyre appropriate and as safe, if not safer than a tyre designed for a m/c? If I can pay a few thousand for a m/c than I have no problem with a couple hundred every yr. or so for a fresh tyre designed specifically for that application. Just saying :-/ |
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Rancho Cucamonga, CA | Motorcycle companies are going to recommend motorcycle tires because they provide the greatest range of traction and handling. After riding 3k miles now on a CT, I can say the tire is not the limiting factor on the Vision, the bike is. I may not recommend a CT for all bikes, but for a 2 wheel luxury sofa, there is hardly a difference. I have scraped alot of floorboard off seeing if there is any difference within the narrow confines of a touring bike, and even though the Vision outperforms most other touring bikes, it still doesn't outperform the CTs.
Edited by Nozzledog 2011-11-24 1:17 PM
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| Spending all most $300 every year for a rear tire is something that bugs the hell out of me. A CT for $120 and it last two years is very reasonable.
Yes at the begin there is more force you have to apply to the bars to go around cloverleafs ans twistys. For me as the mileage grew the pressure on the bars just seamed normal.
Guys say its just not right and should not be done well I feel the same about adding a GPS to the bike. Where's the adventure in doing that.
No a CT on the back is not for every one but then neither is a vision. If you want to find out try it you'll know in side of a week if its for you or not.
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Rhode Island | When the rear E3 starts making loud noises in the corners it tended to make me think that the contact area wasn't what it should be. I ran it at 41psi, checked a min of 2 times a week and at about 6k I started noticing the noise. So the tire is cupping that bad left me thinking that my contact area was reduced (not good). The next thing was when the rear tire broke loose in a heave rain when I was only running 35-40, again not good. Since installing the CT I got caught in one heavy down pour and the tire handled it like a champ.
So it leaves me feeling like I am better with the CT than the MT; all should do as they see fit and are confident with.
Ride safe,
Jim |
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Barefoot Bay, FL United States | A point to consider in the tirs grip failure in the rain is the VERY obvious difference in the tread and rain grooves. I insisted on an E2 on my last tire change for the front. The E3's just didn't have enought rain groove for me!! |
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New Bohemia, VA | I put about $700 worth of tires on my bike every year for the last 4 years, all E3s and it has never bugged me. I usually have to do without eating out a few times a month, but that is something I need to do anyways. Also, never ever had an issue with E3s in the rain. Sorry, I was just keeping up with the DS comments and you all started talking M/C tires again and I just couldn't help myself. I'll slither back to my hole.... |
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Moravia, IA | varyder - 2011-11-25 5:01 PM
I put about $700 worth of tires on my bike every year for the last 4 years, all E3s and it has never bugged me. I usually have to do without eating out a few times a month, but that is something I need to do anyways. Also, never ever had an issue with E3s in the rain. Sorry, I was just keeping up with the DS comments and you all started talking M/C tires again and I just couldn't help myself. I'll slither back to my hole....
Ive also never had trouble with the E3s in the rain. They cupped horrible very quickly....but they worked well - just didnt last.
.............until I put a trailer on the bike. Stopping the Vision in the rain with a trailer on E3s.....thats interesting to say the least.
Pulling a trailer is where the car tire really starts to shine......or riding 2up with "larger" occupants. |
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New Bohemia, VA | I always get exceptable wear out of my E3 despite any preceived cupping. I can see where there is merit in using a car tire pulling a trailer or extreme road conditions like a ride to Alaska. |
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Bay of Gigs, WA | I still maintain that my BFG Radial All-Terrain T/A's are the best in the snow! And it holds the bike up without the kickstand, making checking the oil a snap!
(What kind of oil should I be using with my car tires, anyway?) |
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Moravia, IA | varyder - 2011-11-26 2:21 PM
I always get exceptable wear out of my E3 despite any preceived cupping. I can see where there is merit in using a car tire pulling a trailer or extreme road conditions like a ride to Alaska.
Maybe I did to....I got about 9K out of the rear. What do you usually get out of an E3? The front would have lasted longer if I was going by treadwear alone but the cupping was getting bad enough the bike required alot of bar input at low speeds. |
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Mount Vernon, WA United States | I am really surprised the ferver DSing stirs up. I'm sure there are a few other old farts around here, but as I recall in the 70's we didn't even call it "dark siding"... we just called it putting on a car that was less expensive a lasted longer. I had a Kawasaki Z2 that I chopped. I don't remember even looking at motorcycle tires when I went looking for a new rear tire. Dig up old pictures of bikes.. MANY had car tires. I'm just surprised that so many years later it's a "thang" when at one time it was just what you did if you wanted a longer lasting tire. Also keep in mind that bike tires used to last longer then too. Probably due to less torque and speed and such... but I don't remember "buying tires" all the time being my topic of conversation like it has been in the past 10 years or so. |
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Central Maryland | Back in the '70's we didn't have the Internet either. So the exposure to the pro's and con's of running a darkside were not so amplified. |
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New Bohemia, VA | I think the real issue that the CT is made out to be something it is not, and that's better for the application for most riders. I truly don't have a thing against anyone riding a car tire on a bike, and it is just as much of the history and continues to be of our passion. Given the circumstances I would ride one on my bike, but as it stands now the only reason I would have is because I'm cheap and lazy. Sorry, that is just the way I see it. My E3s and my '08 without ABS has stood up to every test I've been faced with, and I'm fortunate enough to be able to buy motorcycle tires. If a car tire would give me the "SAME" ride as my E3s then I would run them all the time also. I don't want to get USED TO the ride, I like the ride I have. I've even comtemplated get another rim and have a CT mounted and use it during the week for work, and then putting back on the E3 for the weekend. I would do if if I was going to Alaska, or doing a whirl-wind tour of the US, but I like my E3 ride to change out now.
I say, ride, ride, ride the car tire, and put the truth behind it when you do, you want more mileage for a cheaper price, just the bottomline will do. |
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Pitt Meadows, BC Canada | willtill - 2011-11-29 5:52 AM Back in the '70's we didn't have the Internet either. So the exposure to the pro's and con's of running a darkside were not so amplified. NO! The 'pro's and con's' were VERY amplified. I read every issue of Motorcycle Magazine & Cycle Canada. And from time to time I read articles that were written by Tire Engineers and other 'experts' - and they were adament: DO NOT PUT A CAR TIRE ON A MOTORCYCLE - for your HEALTH mostly! I would like to see bike racers test the same bike - with C/T and with stock tires on a timed circuit. I would put money on the bike tires beating the HELL out of C/T's. According to you C/T experts, I am sure they are fine on freeways, flat straight riding or pulling a trailer, or trikes. But for my mountain riding - NO WAY! That picture earlier in this post of a C/T next to a bike tire should be enought to convince anyone of the degree of handling LOSS with C/T. |
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Tucson, AZ | Yes Don, we all understand your position on this subject. You have let all us know over and over what it is. It's no different than loud pipes vs stock pipes, full synthetic vs synthetic blend, or high performance cams vs stock cams. It's a personal choice. No one is going to change their minds because of your negative comments. I've ridden over 35,000 miles on two bikes on the dark side with no problems. Can you site me just ONE incident where a rider has died, wrecked, or was injured because he was running a car tire? I've said it before and I'll say it again, what did Boss Hoss put on their bikes from 1990 until Avon came out with the Avon 280? A car tire! How many law suits were filed against Boss Hoss because buyers were injured or killed running on a car tire they installed?
BTW I run 35 psi on my Potenza. |
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Rancho Cucamonga, CA | Just something I found on the darkside of the web.
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New Bohemia, VA | okay, in layman terms what does that mean? Car tires are bad on cars but good on motorcycles....? |
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Iron Butt
Posts: 825
, WI | I prefer personal experience over reading magazines.
I put a car tire on my Vision. If I didn't like it I would have removed it.
I ride a Vision, I have a car tire and use Amsoil. Apparently I don't care WTF others think.
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Visionary
Posts: 1229
Rancho Cucamonga, CA | it means a CT will conform to keep a useful contact patch.
If you think about the physics behind tires and the contact patch, they are all relatively the same based on the pressure in the tires. If you have a 800 pound motorcycle, and the tires are at 40psi, you will have 20 square inches of contact. a wider tire will have a shorter contact patch and a narrower tire will have a thinner but longer contact patch. A CT will have the same size contact patch as a MT. the difference will be in how that patch is shaped. A MT will pretty much keep the same contact patch shape regardless of the angle of the bike. A CT will vary more depending on the angle. It will go from short and fat on the straights, to long and narrow on the turns, The deformity of the sidewall means that it will be a more gradual change. Sidewall deformation on a CT is good for motorcycles but bad for cars. On a car, that deformity shows up when the shear force (the force caused by the car wanting to continue in a straight path and the tires trying to make it go in a different direction) deform the sidewall, causing a lag in the turn. That is why permormance cars go with lower profile tires. The tradeoff on a car is it's ability to absorb road shock, making for a bumpy ride. As shocks get better, this is less of a concern.
OK, I digress. .
So, what is better for motorcycle handling? A short/fat contact patch or a long/narrow patch. Since most 'racers' use a wide tire, I would go with short/fat.
The CT on the motorcycle will have an ever changing patch shape, and gradually(based on sidewall deformation) will become narrower that what a MT would have. The question is, Is that angle before or after you have ground away your floorboards? |
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Visionary
Posts: 1229
Rancho Cucamonga, CA | On a side note, Motorcycles experience shear forces as well, but because it can angle, that force is kept more in line with the tire.
Edited by Nozzledog 2011-11-29 11:21 PM
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Visionary
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Pitt Meadows, BC Canada | I guess there's no arguing with 'experts'. Last you'll hear from me on the subject. (hoo-ray I can hear .... ) |
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Iron Butt
Posts: 612
| I have a question for those of you on the dark side..... why does it seem like so many of you who go with a car tire, go with what sounds like a cheap Asian made one instead of a decent name brand like Goodyear or Michelin? While I may consider putting a car tire on my Vision at some point, I certainly don't see putting a cheaper tire on my bike than what I put on my car.... It's already "risky" enough as it is just going to a car tire, but then to compound the situation by going with the cheapest one I can find, just doesn't sound like a good idea.
So.... is there anyone running a Goodyear or Michelin? If so, which model and size?
Edited by Turk 2011-12-02 7:43 AM
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Central Wisconsin | Turk - 2011-12-02 7:41 AM I have a question for those of you on the dark side..... why does it seem like so many of you who go with a car tire, go with what sounds like a cheap Asian made one instead of a decent name brand like Goodyear or Michelin? .................. So.... is there anyone running a Goodyear or Michelin? If so, which model and size? I use to run a Falken CT with a 195mm width. I'm currently running a (175/60R/16) Dunlop SP Winter Sport 3D RunFlat which I like better and is made in Germany. I put around 10,000 (2up) miles on the Dunlop CT this year, a mix of highway and mountains.
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Cruiser
Posts: 232
| We have been running c/t for yrs. in the late 50 and 60's dad put vw 16'' tires on his ol harley. I'M darkside 1041 on the GL1800 forum and will try one on the vision when it's time. May not like one on it but will try. Darkside is not for everyone and not every bike, i would not put one on a gsxr 1000 just saying... |
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Cruiser
Posts: 232
| We have been running c/t for yrs. in the late 50 and 60's dad put vw 16'' tires on his ol harley. I'M darkside 1041 on the GL1800 forum and will try one on the vision when it's time. May not like one on it but will try. Darkside is not for everyone and not every bike, i would not put one on a gsxr 1000 just saying... |
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Tourer
Posts: 395
Moravia, IA | Turk - 2011-12-02 7:41 AM
I have a question for those of you on the dark side..... why does it seem like so many of you who go with a car tire, go with what sounds like a cheap Asian made one instead of a decent name brand like Goodyear or Michelin? While I may consider putting a car tire on my Vision at some point, I certainly don't see putting a cheaper tire on my bike than what I put on my car.... It's already "risky" enough as it is just going to a car tire, but then to compound the situation by going with the cheapest one I can find, just doesn't sound like a good idea.
So.... is there anyone running a Goodyear or Michelin? If so, which model and size?
Ive only ran two brands of CTs....a Bridgestone and a Goodyear. Most of us dont care what brand name is molded on the side of the tire, we care if it works well. If someone says an "insert whats sounds like a cheap Asian made one" here works well then I wouldnt be concerned and would try it.
You do realize most motorcycle tires are imported....despite where the company molded on the side has its headquarters, right? At one time I believe only Dunlop was making tires in the US, not sure if thats still true.
Asian made stuff doesnt equal junk any more.....hasnt for along time.
Im currently running a Goodyear Assurance Fuel Max 175/60-16.
My previous tire was a Bridgestone Potenza G019 Grid in 185/55-16. It was my favorite but they have stopped making it in that size so I had to switch it up.
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Visionary
Posts: 1229
Rancho Cucamonga, CA | Nothing but good so far with the Dunlop RF Wintersport 175/60r-16.
Now just have to see how long it lasts. It didn't have a wear rating. |
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Visionary
Posts: 4278
| Dunlop has two divisions one here in the US and there called dunlop Americans and then there is the Europe ones that most if not all harleys come with.
We don't race our vision well I don't unless its to go in a straight line and beat those hd. I do clover leafs and ribbon roads and there are times I go fast and scrap and lean off to the side. I have checked my CT to see how far over I lean and I'm a inch away from the no return edge. I do think I have a stable ride with the CT and less wind movement.
I asked my insurance person about running one and will I be covered and they said it would be up to the cops to say the CT was at fault for the accident.
Cause of the wide stance of the CT I feel I stop in a shorter distance and the last time in the rain when it was 43 degrees the tire handled just fine. I don't believe you can run a CT on motorcycles that have frame rails on the bottom of the bike cause it will not track right.
Yes the CT is not for all but the ones that have a open mind you'll do just fine with meany great hours of riding.
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Tourer
Posts: 444
Bay of Gigs, WA | Still seems to me (and per the diagram above) that if one is upset because the bike tire "wears flat" due to being on the slab 99% of the time, then by the same token, the car tire should "wear round" by virtue of being leaned over more on the scooter than if it was on a car. Thus, I might expect the car tire to actually improve with mileage as opposed to the bike tire which would deteriorate in it's handling with miles. Does that make sense? And with the 5-600 tread wear ratings (up to 800!) out there, the car tire should continue to improve for a whole lot longer than the bike tire which goes away almost overnight. So this is the question-has anyone done the numbers? Does the CT improve to some point to where it approached or equals the MT? Does it even exceed, like hydroplaning or stopping due to the tread/width? Or is it close enough that the extra longevity makes any shortcoming (or perceived shortcoming) merely a matter of semantics? I don't need a tire at this time, but the day is surely coming, and sooner than any other bike I've owned, given my propensity to ride this one during the more inclement months. So I appreciate these threads a lot, thanks. |
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Tourer
Posts: 444
Bay of Gigs, WA | Still seems to me (and per the diagram above) that if one is upset because the bike tire "wears flat" due to being on the slab 99% of the time, then by the same token, the car tire should "wear round" by virtue of being leaned over more on the scooter than if it was on a car. Thus, I might expect the car tire to actually improve with mileage as opposed to the bike tire which would deteriorate in it's handling with miles. Does that make sense? And with the 5-600 tread wear ratings (up to 800!) out there, the car tire should continue to improve for a whole lot longer than the bike tire which goes away almost overnight. So this is the question-has anyone done the numbers? Does the CT improve to some point to where it approached or equals the MT? Does it even exceed, like hydroplaning or stopping due to the tread/width? Or is it close enough that the extra longevity makes any shortcoming (or perceived shortcoming) merely a matter of semantics? I don't need a tire at this time, but the day is surely coming, and sooner than any other bike I've owned, given my propensity to ride this one during the more inclement months. So I appreciate these threads a lot, thanks. |
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Tourer
Posts: 444
Bay of Gigs, WA | I put new Metzlers on the bike last time, because an E3 wasn't available in Medford, OR, and I was a long way from home with a long way to go yet. The E3 rear had three big cuts in it from some road hazard or another, but upon inspection, I wasn't thrilled about the vulnerability of the tread, vs. the depth and apparent toughness displayed by the pattern of a car tire. So when I'm two up, the last thing I need is to have the rear tire let go because it can't stand up to some piece of shrapnel on some mountain road somewhere, and the burly tread of the car tire seems desirable to me on those grounds alone. I've never used a car tire before, frankly because it never occurred to me until I joined this blog, but I've had more flats on bikes in the last thirty years than I have on cars, that's for sure. |
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Tourer
Posts: 395
Moravia, IA | rainryder - 2011-12-02 2:20 PM
Still seems to me (and per the diagram above) that if one is upset because the bike tire "wears flat" due to being on the slab 99% of the time, then by the same token, the car tire should "wear round" by virtue of being leaned over more on the scooter than if it was on a car. Thus, I might expect the car tire to actually improve with mileage as opposed to the bike tire which would deteriorate in it's handling with miles. Does that make sense? And with the 5-600 tread wear ratings (up to 800!) out there, the car tire should continue to improve for a whole lot longer than the bike tire which goes away almost overnight. So this is the question-has anyone done the numbers? Does the CT improve to some point to where it approached or equals the MT? Does it even exceed, like hydroplaning or stopping due to the tread/width? Or is it close enough that the extra longevity makes any shortcoming (or perceived shortcoming) merely a matter of semantics? I don't need a tire at this time, but the day is surely coming, and sooner than any other bike I've owned, given my propensity to ride this one during the more inclement months. So I appreciate these threads a lot, thanks.
It doesnt "wear round" in my experience.
Your correct that the CT doesnt deteriorate handling wise though. My E3 handled great till about 4K then dropped off considerably as the tire cupped horrible. The car tire handles a little different for the first 200 miles or so....then its the same till the day you wear it slick or change it - no appreciable difference in handling.
This is a picture of my Bridgestone with about 24K miles on it.....worn perfectly all the way across the tire - no cupping or distortion. 
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Tourer
Posts: 444
Bay of Gigs, WA | AaronnK:
Cool! And it still looks like it's not quite to the wear bars yet. Now, I know some "sticky" car tires wear quickly, and I'm going to guess that your Potenza there is one of those. Ergo, a really sticky car tire will still last twice as long as a bike tire given what I'm seeing here.
The higher wear ratings might tend to make a CT more slick due to harder compounds, so I'd think it would be prudent to avoid those-but the high performance ones, with twice the wear and at less than half the price...Hmmm. And the pic on the previous page of the car and bike tire in the pickup bed together also lets me know the difference in size and shape isn't that much between the two, beyond the much more aggressive tread on the CT.
Also, 4-500 lbs. of weight on the tire on the bike vs. about 750-1200 lbs. (depending) on the car will allow one to run less air pressure without heat buildup and still allow more deformity in corners to compensate for the grip/size of contact patch (though perhaps still not as much as a bike tire, but the aggressive tread may make up for that somewhat). This is very informative. Thanks much!
Edited by rainryder 2011-12-02 6:37 PM
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Visionary
Posts: 3006
San Antonio, TX | Has anyone tried the Dark Side at the drag strip? |
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Cruiser
Posts: 249
Phenix City AL. | So, puttin after market exhuast that is stamped for off road use only, should not be put on the vision ? I am shure the experts would say, they will damage the motor and cause extera power, witch will cause excessive HP, that could result in the rear tire breaking contact with the road, and the rider will loose control and crash. LOL With all the reading I have been doing on this site and the VMC, I will be going dark side when my new wheels come in. |
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Iron Butt
Posts: 741
Central New York | It appears that every post I read supporting the use of a car tire on a motorcycle includes some kind of compromise "that you get used to". The only actual 'positive' statement I have ever heard about going 'darkside' is that it's cheaper. Seems odd to buy a $20K motorcycle and cheap out on the tires.
Seems like buying a $50k Travel Trailer and sleeping in you tow vehicle because it's cheaper to heat. |
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Iron Butt
Posts: 825
, WI | glighto11 - 2011-12-03 9:05 AM It appears that every post I read supporting the use of a car tire on a motorcycle includes some kind of compromise "that you get used to". The only actual 'positive' statement I have ever heard about going 'darkside' is that it's cheaper. Seems odd to buy a $20K motorcycle and cheap out on the tires. Seems like buying a $50k Travel Trailer and sleeping in you tow vehicle because it's cheaper to heat. My reason, mileage and thread options. I would spend $500 for a tire if it would help me complete a ride. |
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Cruiser
Posts: 262
Flowery Branch Ga | The "getting used to it" was no different than coming off a Sportster onto the Vision. I had to "get used to it". It may be different, but no so much in a bad way. Kind of like buying a new car and getting used to it compared to the old car. The cheaper price, mileage leangth, and certain handling characteristics are all a plus. Putting up with the naysayers who have never tried it and getting used to something new are the negaties. For me, I don't see the need to go back to a MT on the rear. The CT has done all that I've asked of it and had more to give. Don't count out the "cheaper Aisan brands" as most are as good as the name brands and have been ran with success. JMHO@O
Wayne |
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Tourer
Posts: 599
New Mexico | Yes, I agree, is like the difference between motorcycles, or even brands of motorcycle tires. I remember on a previous bike changing from Dunlop to Metzlers and having to get used to the difference. It honestly took me a bit more than 200 miles to get comfortable with the Darkside, but most of that was in my head. Bike handles different, some things better & some worse, but overall I am happy on the DS.
And the ever present disclaimer: This is just MHO, the Darkside is not for everyone...
And spending 24k on a bike doesn't mean I have disposable income to throw around (quite the opposite, actually). I want the best bang for the buck while still keeping the performance and safety. I personally think running the DS accomplishes that.
Edited by Boots 2011-12-03 12:09 PM
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Tourer
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scotts valley, California | Is there any known case where a CT failed on a motorcycle? |
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Tourer
Posts: 395
Moravia, IA | Blue Sky Guy - 2011-12-03 2:49 PM
Is there any known case where a CT failed on a motorcycle?
I searched for quite a while and never found anything... |
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Central Wisconsin | Rollin' - 2011-12-03 9:31 AM glighto11 - 2011-12-03 9:05 AM It appears that every post I read supporting the use of a car tire on a motorcycle includes some kind of compromise "that you get used to". The only actual 'positive' statement I have ever heard about going 'darkside' is that it's cheaper. Seems odd to buy a $20K motorcycle and cheap out on the tires. Seems like buying a $50k Travel Trailer and sleeping in you tow vehicle because it's cheaper to heat. My reason, mileage and thread options. I would spend $500 for a tire if it would help me complete a ride. +1 I can afford to mount MT's once or twice a year. However, I would rather mount a CT once every two years and NOT worry about having enough thread for a trip or the MT cupping on the sides.
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Tourer
Posts: 395
Moravia, IA | Increased load bearing for two-up riding while pulling a trailer was my main reason. Depending on the motorcycle tire and the rider/trailer combo - you could be seriously overloading your motorcycle tire. It could potentially fail, it will wear prematurely and when aired up to give it the best shot - its uncomfortable.
Car tires "generally" have a higher load rating, wear longer......and Ive definitely experienced better ride when "fully loaded".
Price.....to me thats just a bonus really. The fact I dont have to go into the mechanic every 2 to 3 months for a new rear tire helps a bunch as well. The car tire lasted 3 times longer....I put it on and traveled hard all year long with ZERO concerns about when/where my tire was going to wear out.
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Cruiser
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Flowery Branch Ga | I have also found that slow speed stability and ease of holding the bike up when stopped have increased with the CT.
Wayne |
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Tourer
Posts: 395
Moravia, IA | wtwhitelaw - 2011-12-04 1:35 AM
I have also found that slow speed stability and ease of holding the bike up when stopped have increased with the CT.
Wayne
Doesnt yours just stand up by itself when you stop, without even using the kickstand. Mine does.
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Visionary
Posts: 8144
New Bohemia, VA | aaronrkelly - 2011-12-04 2:20 AM
Increased load bearing for two-up riding while pulling a trailer was my main reason. Depending on the motorcycle tire and the rider/trailer combo - you could be seriously overloading your motorcycle tire. It could potentially fail, it will wear prematurely and when aired up to give it the best shot - its uncomfortable.
Car tires "generally" have a higher load rating, wear longer......and Ive definitely experienced better ride when "fully loaded".
Price.....to me thats just a bonus really. The fact I dont have to go into the mechanic every 2 to 3 months for a new rear tire helps a bunch as well. The car tire lasted 3 times longer....I put it on and traveled hard all year long with ZERO concerns about when/where my tire was going to wear out.
I'm not saying the Vision suspension and other components like bearins are not strong enough, but simply putting higher rated tires on your machine doesn't mean it will haul more. |
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Tourer
Posts: 395
Moravia, IA | varyder - 2011-12-04 5:26 AM
I'm not saying the Vision suspension and other components like bearins are not strong enough, but simply putting higher rated tires on your machine doesn't mean it will haul more.
Really....I figured if I put truck tires on it I could pull my car trailer.
No....but it does mean that the failure point wont be the tires..... |
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Visionary
Posts: 8144
New Bohemia, VA | Without getting into a long drawn out reason, to which you already know, the rationale to "haul more" just doesn't make sense. What does make sense is you move your failure point off of the tire to somewhere else if you haul greater than the load rating of the bike. |
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Iron Butt
Posts: 825
, WI | Another tire pressure monitoring system - http://www.bigbikeparts.com/Inventory/Navision/13-318?catalogNo= |
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Tourer
Posts: 444
Bay of Gigs, WA | I have a sport bike for fanging around the side roads, but the Vision is for the slab. It makes sense to me to install equipment that reaches for the long haul, and has a relatively armored surface, such as that afforded by the deep tread of a car tire. A run flat seems great insurance if blindsided by some shrapnel or other on a desolate mountain road, with no bars on the phone (or within walking distance). |
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Cruiser
Posts: 244
| Another one joins the darkside on his vision. A 185/55R16 Bridgestone Potenza (have a trailer hitch on). Better stopping, can really press on that brake peddle without the rear wheel locking up. I would venture to say it cut my stopping disatance by 25%, better handleing than the woren out E3 (20K). I had a Potenza on my 650 Burgman before it got hit. 20K, only 1/2 gone & handled just as good as when it was new. After long hot rides the tire tempature was always 1/2 of what the front tire temp was. This always gave me a good safe secure feeling. |
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Tourer
Posts: 388
Salisbury, NC | I use a Michelen Primacy 195/55/16 at 41psi. The filter is a Purlator PL14610 with Valvoline MC 4 stroke 20w-50(Part # 743). ET PS this tire has over 15000 on it.
Edited by etspastimes 2012-04-09 4:51 PM
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Tourer
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Moravia, IA | Rick Farrar - 2012-04-09 2:43 PM
Another one joins the darkside on his vision. A 185/55R16 Bridgestone Potenza (have a trailer hitch on). Better stopping, can really press on that brake peddle without the rear wheel locking up. I would venture to say?it cut my stopping disatance by 25%,?better handleing than the woren out E3 (20K). I had a Potenza on my 650 Burgman before it got hit. 20K, only 1/2 gone & handled just as good as when it was new. After long hot rides the tire tempature was always 1/2 of what the front tire temp was. This always gave me a good safe secure feeling.
That Bridgestone Potenza is one excellent darkside tire. That was my first.....it had 27K miles on it and still had 3/32 tread on it when I pulled it. Wore dead even.....always provided excellent service.
Sadly when I went looking they were backordered everywhere.....some said discontinued. I choose something else. Its working well but its not the Potenza.
Good choice. |
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Cruiser
Posts: 232
| Put a Dunlop wintersport 175/60-16 rf on today 36psig.Went for a ride of about 125miles the thing handles and rides great better that the Wing with it's c/t. Got up to about 100mph No problem ..all's well in my little world. |
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Visionary
Posts: 3773
Pittsburgh, PA | TRELL - 2012-04-09 9:23 PM
Put a Dunlop wintersport 175/60-16 rf on today 36psig.Went for a ride of about 125miles the thing handles and rides great better that the Wing with it's c/t. Got up to about 100mph No problem ..all's well in my little world.
hey trell i was just looking into a 175/60-16 car tire for my 2011 vision.. when i had a 08 vision i had a 195/60-16 and it was great.. but this time i dont want that large of a tire just in case i decide to mount a Hitch..
Im looking at a GoodYear assurance fuel Max 175/60-16
i ride with alot of goldwingers and one had a 195 and went to a 175 and he said the 175 felt easier to lean/turn. |
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Iron Butt
Posts: 935
Rockford, IL | Arkainzeye - 2012-04-09 9:29 PM TRELL - 2012-04-09 9:23 PM Put a Dunlop wintersport 175/60-16 rf on today 36psig.Went for a ride of about 125miles the thing handles and rides great better that the Wing with it's c/t. Got up to about 100mph No problem ..all's well in my little world. hey trell i was just looking into a 175/60-16 car tire for my 2011 vision.. when i had a 08 vision i had a 195/60-16 and it was great.. but this time i dont want that large of a tire just in case i decide to mount a Hitch.. Im looking at a GoodYear assurance fuel Max 175/60-16 i ride with alot of goldwingers and one had a 195 and went to a 175 and he said the 175 felt easier to lean/turn. I'm going to be installing a Hitch-Doc with the 185 Potenza tire within the next week or so. From everything I've read it will fit without rub. Guess I'll find out.....soon
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Pittsburgh, PA | Lotzafun - 2012-04-10 9:04 AM
Arkainzeye - 2012-04-09 9:29 PM TRELL - 2012-04-09 9:23 PM Put a Dunlop wintersport 175/60-16 rf on today 36psig.Went for a ride of about 125miles the thing handles and rides great better that the Wing with it's c/t. Got up to about 100mph No problem ..all's well in my little world. hey trell i was just looking into a 175/60-16 car tire for my 2011 vision.. when i had a 08 vision i had a 195/60-16 and it was great.. but this time i dont want that large of a tire just in case i decide to mount a Hitch.. Im looking at a GoodYear assurance fuel Max 175/60-16 i ride with alot of goldwingers and one had a 195 and went to a 175 and he said the 175 felt easier to lean/turn. I'm going to be installing a Hitch-Doc with the 185 Potenza tire within the next week or so. From everything I've read it will fit without rub. Guess I'll find out.....soon
yeah i wanted a 185 but i was worried about my abs system and the 185/55 not being as close to the Oem diameter as the 175/60 or the 195/55 |
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Tourer
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Moravia, IA | Lotzafun - 2012-04-10 9:04 AM
Arkainzeye - 2012-04-09 9:29 PM TRELL - 2012-04-09 9:23 PM Put a Dunlop wintersport 175/60-16 rf on today 36psig.Went for a ride of about 125miles the thing handles and rides great better that the Wing with it's c/t. Got up to about 100mph No problem ..all's well in my little world. hey trell i was just looking into a 175/60-16 car tire for my 2011 vision.. when i had a 08 vision i had a 195/60-16 and it was great.. but this time i dont want that large of a tire just in case i decide to mount a Hitch.. Im looking at a GoodYear assurance fuel Max 175/60-16 i ride with alot of goldwingers and one had a 195 and went to a 175 and he said the 175 felt easier to lean/turn. I'm going to be installing a Hitch-Doc with the 185 Potenza tire within the next week or so. From everything I've read it will fit without rub. Guess I'll find out.....soon
Yes it will.
I rode my Vision two up (approx 560lbs of people) all across the US with that setup pulling a trailer.....it would rub occasionally in a hard bump.....but then thats alot of weight in passengers to......you probably wont have that much weight. |
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Lennox, SD | I also joined the Darkside a week ago, installed a Dunlop Winter Sport RF 175/75r16.
It was a little tough to mount on my own but I finally won the battle.
Running 36 psi and at about 200 mile I like it a lot. It is a little different at slow speed parking lot turns but it should be easy to get used to.
Waiting on my tire pressure monitor now to keep tabs on the pressure. |
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Iron Butt
Posts: 880
Orlando, FL | OK, gotta give my 2 cents. I say run whatever you want. That's the nice thing about living in America. You get to choose!
You want to run a tractor tire on your Vision? Go for it.
You want straight pipes? Go for it.
You want NO2? Go for it!
Want a CT? Go for it.
You want to make it a trike? Go for it.
You want to add rock band speakers that can be heard for miles and shake your bike?? Go for it.
You want to go helmet-less (assuming your state law allows) GO FOR IT!
Just enjoy the ride. It's your ride, so color it however you desire and run with it.
Everyone has their "druthers" and we should honor that person's choices. When turbobuick started this thread he simply stated that he went Darkside and liked it. And he wanted to know what tire pressure others were running. A simple and reasonable request to fellow riders! He didn't ask for advice or opinions about going Darkside, just about tire pressure.
Personally, I can see both sides of the debate. The Wing and the Vision are very big bikes that are not crotch rockets and I bet very few of us wear off the tread from edge to edge. Most stay fairly upright. So perhaps car tires are a good choice for some. Me, I'm just chicken and therefore don't see myself experimenting with a CT. That's MY choice. But if the Darkside is your thing .......... ENJOY IT and RIDE IT LIKE YOU STOLE IT!!
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Posts: 3773
Pittsburgh, PA | MaddMAx2u - 2012-04-10 8:36 PM
OK, gotta give my 2 cents. I say run whatever you want. That's the nice thing about living in America. You get to choose!
You want to run a tractor tire on your Vision? Go for it.
You want straight pipes? Go for it.
You want NO2? Go for it!
Want a CT? Go for it.
You want to make it a trike? Go for it.
You want to add rock band speakers that can be heard for miles and shake your bike?? Go for it.
You want to go helmet-less (assuming your state law allows) GO FOR IT!
Just enjoy the ride. It's your ride, so color it however you desire and run with it.
Everyone has their "druthers" and we should honor that person's choices. When turbobuick started this thread he simply stated that he went Darkside and liked it. And he wanted to know what tire pressure others were running. A simple and reasonable request to fellow riders! He didn't ask for advice or opinions about going Darkside, just about tire pressure.
Personally, I can see both sides of the debate. The Wing and the Vision are very big bikes that are not crotch rockets and I bet very few of us wear off the tread from edge to edge. Most stay fairly upright. So perhaps car tires are a good choice for some. Me, I'm just chicken and therefore don't see myself experimenting with a CT. That's MY choice. But if the Darkside is your thing .......... ENJOY IT and RIDE IT LIKE YOU STOLE IT!!
was people actually debating NOT to use it on here? i thought they went from tire pressure to which darkside tire worked BEST for them and in which size...?? |
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Cruiser
Posts: 222
Barefoot Bay, FL United States | My opinion only, but a suggestion on the Hitch-Doc is to install the bolts "UP" from inside the wheel well, rather than down from inside the tour pack (if you have one). That way, if you decide to remove the tour pack, you just remove the nuts, and the hitch stays in place, and there is plenty of clearance for the tire, whether it is a CT or MCT. '08 VV with a little man-bling. Chrome IS a color!! |
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Iron Butt
Posts: 1109
| I'll have to agree with Max, it's not for me but if you like it,go for it. You payed for the bike,do whatever makes you happy. |
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Cruiser
Posts: 244
| My opinion only, but a suggestion on the Hitch-Doc is to install the bolts "UP" from inside the wheel well, rather than down from inside the tour pack (if you have one). That way, if you decide to remove the tour pack, you just remove the nuts, and the hitch stays in place, and there is plenty of clearance for the tire, whether it is a CT or MCT.
I did that when I put my CT on so I could get the Tour Pack off. I have the back rest but need the luggage rack to put on the back rest.
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Cruiser
Posts: 135
Chesterfield, VA | witchbiker - 2012-04-11 8:36 AM My opinion only, but a suggestion on the Hitch-Doc is to install the bolts "UP" from inside the wheel well, rather than down from inside the tour pack (if you have one). That way, if you decide to remove the tour pack, you just remove the nuts, and the hitch stays in place, and there is plenty of clearance for the tire, whether it is a CT or MCT. '08 VV with a little man-bling. Chrome IS a color!! +1 I did that also and highly recommend inverting the bolts so that the nuts are on top under the trunk access panel. Even if you plan to never ride without the trunk, if you ever have to remove it for maintenance this will make the job 100% easier. |
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Tourer
Posts: 395
Moravia, IA | Got my new patch in today.....cant wait to get it sewed on.....
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Cruiser
Posts: 233
flagstaff, AZ | aaronrkelly - 2012-04-14 11:31 PM
Got my new patch in today.....cant wait to get it sewed on.....
? ?
Where's the LIKE button?
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Iron Butt
Posts: 825
, WI | aaronrkelly - 2012-04-15 12:31 AM Got my new patch in today.....cant wait to get it sewed on.....
Nice! I like it!! |
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Cruiser
Posts: 232
| aaronrkelly - 2012-04-15 12:31 AM
Got my new patch in today.....cant wait to get it sewed on.....
? ? May i ask where you got that great looking patch ,i would like one? |
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Cruiser
Posts: 232
| Wife and I went for a ride today put 320 miles on the c/t I do like it.175/60-16 wintersport RF. |
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Tourer
Posts: 395
Moravia, IA | TRELL - 2012-04-15 10:23 PM
aaronrkelly - 2012-04-15 12:31 AM
Got my new patch in today.....cant wait to get it sewed on.....
? ? May i ask where you got that great looking patch ,i would like one?
Got it here - its customizable, you pick the text and the color of the fender on the bike.
There are about 3 different sizes and shapes.
http://store.dryheatembroidery.com/patches-en/custom-patches/ |
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Cruiser
Posts: 142
elgin mn | Ordered mine Thanks |
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Cruiser
Posts: 56
| I am getting close to replacing the rear on my 11 VV tour. Looks like about 11k but with bad cupping as normal. My 07 KP Tour did the same.
Really considering going to the dark side, but......Simple questions for the folks that are doing this...
1) What size tire do I need to migrate to the darkside? I like things to be as close to stock as possible with no fitment issue. Dont tow a trailer, but do load the bike heavy...2 up and luggage.
2) What brands are you using? I would like a mixture of performance and mileage...20k to 30k is what Im looking for.
3) Anyone live in the Charlotte NC area that knows of a shop that would do this?
I am asking for informational purposes only...not for a debate. LOL.
Thanks in advance! |
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Visionary
Posts: 8144
New Bohemia, VA | Charlotte Indian-Victory dealer at Lowell. |
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Cruiser
Posts: 56
| Great...I live right down the street and have started building a relationship with those guys. Wasnt sure if they would do it or not.
Still need brand and definitive sizing. Will order soon when I get the info.
Thanks
Edited by kpVision 2012-04-16 10:28 PM
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Visionary
Posts: 8144
New Bohemia, VA | Mark's a biker's biker. If he tells you otherwise, let us know. I'd be shocked if he don't.
Edited by varyder 2012-04-16 10:37 PM
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Tourer
Posts: 395
Moravia, IA | kpVision - 2012-04-16 9:59 PM
I am getting close to replacing the rear on my 11 VV tour. Looks like about 11k but with bad cupping as normal. My 07 KP Tour did the same.
Really considering going to the dark side, but......Simple questions for the folks that are doing this...
1) What size tire do I need to migrate to the darkside? I like things to be as close to stock as possible with no fitment issue. Dont tow a trailer, but do load the bike heavy...2 up and luggage.
2) What brands are you using? I would like a mixture of performance and mileage...20k to 30k is what Im looking for.
3) Anyone live in the Charlotte NC area that knows of a shop that would do this?
I am asking for informational purposes only...not for a debate. LOL.
Thanks in advance!
1 - The closest to the actual OEM size is a 175/60-16. The problem is its an odd size and your choice of tires will be limited. Im currently using this size because the tire I usually buy was out of stock. Usually I buy a Bridgestone Potenza in 185/55-16, which worked great for me (I pull a trailer). Its a little bigger then the 175/60 and made my speedometer run about 3 miles fast, none the less I thought it was the perfect tire....alas they are discontinued in that size. In the 185/55 you will have a bit better selection then the 175/60. Most people run a 195/55-16 if they dont need the extra clearance for the trailer hitch. This size tire will have a 4 mph difference or so but will give you the best selection of tires.
175/60-16 - closest to stock size....works with a trailer hitch.....poor selection of tires
185/55-16 - works with a trailer hitch (generally accepted as the largest you can go).......better selection of tires
195/55-16 - rubs with the trailer hitch..............best selection of tires
My advise is to go to www.tirerack.com and read up on the different tires in those ranges and pick something you based on the ratings and reviews.
I still cant say enough great things about the Bridgestone Potenza G019 Grid.....exceptional tire and I got about 27K out of it with 3/10ths of tread left, I could have run it longer. I recommend it if you can get it in the size of your choosing. I havent ever seen it in 175/60.....near as I can tell nobody stocks and its been discontinued in the 185/55.
My current tire is the Goodyear Assurance Fuel Max in 175/60-16. I like it just fine and its a great darkside tire but I do think the Bridgestone is better. The Bridgestone seems to have just a bit better traction.....but since then Ive also changed to a different front tire so that may be where I sense the difference. |
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Visionary
Posts: 1229
Rancho Cucamonga, CA | The Dunlop 175/60-16 has been my first 'Dark' tire. I chose that size for two main reasons;
1. It was the only size recommended for a 5" wide rim.
2. I felt a narrower tire would give a closer feel of a MT with less resistance to leaning over.
I chose the Wintersport over others in it's size for two more reasons;
1. I wanted a runflat.
2. The Wintersport is a softer compound to give better traction. Sure I won't get the mileage like the Fuelmax, but I should still get around 24k.
So far my choice has been everything I have expected. Mounting the tire went super easy, no trouble seating it. I notice NO resistance to leaning and it holds traction all the way to where I'm hitting tipovers (a little beyond floorboards). The only aspect I have not needed yet is the runflat factor. Hopefully I won't have to, but it's nice to know it's there.
(DarkSideDecal.jpg)
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DarkSideDecal.jpg (52KB - 1 downloads)
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Cruiser
Posts: 56
| I appreciate the input, especially so quick. This is a big decision for me, as I like to keep "stock" parts so to speak. The benefits are intriguing and I actually rode last year at Rolling Thunder with a guy that ran a CT on his big Kawasaki Vulcan. He loved it and kept up with us all weekend. I have a little time to decide, but leaning toward the DS. MMMM..... |
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Cruiser
Posts: 258
Akron, Ohio | I run the 195/55/16 and have no problems. According to my GPS, my speedo is only off about 2 miles per hour. To me this is no bid deal. It is still closer than any other bike I have had a GPS on.
The tire is a Potenza, aired to 38 psi. I also had no problems with the mounting process. Tire seated at 38 psi. It took about 200 miles to break in then it feels much like the flat centered OEM tire but with a better ride.
For what it is worth, I have read that you should NOT run a "run flat" tire unless you have a pressure monitoring system. If the tire does loose air you would not know and can run into problems. This is just what I read in my research before going Dark, others run them with no problems.
Good luck on your decision and tire choice. |
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Central Wisconsin | kpVision - 2012-04-17 1:34 AM I appreciate the input, especially so quick. This is a big decision for me, as I like to keep "stock" parts so to speak. ...... +1 on the Dunlop SP Winter Sport 3D RunOnFlat 175/60r/16 . I like the 175mm width better then the 195mm width I had on the year before, plus I have a trailer hitch.
Put about 10,000 2up miles on the run flat tire last year without the TPMS, just recently purchased a TPMS and metal valve stems for the sensors. Maybe when the run flat tire needs to be replaced I'll take the valve stem core out and take it for a short low speed test ride, without my wife. Also been using dyna beads and some guys are having good luck with airsoft pellets for balancing.
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Iron Butt
Posts: 612
| Your speedo / mph stats for the various tire sizes is a little confusing. The 195/55 would actually be the closest to stock diameter, and hence, provide the least speedometer error. Next would be the 175/60, and worst would be the 185/55. Each one successfully would indicate that you are going faster than you truly are. The stock E3 tires generally are about 2mph "fast" (ie, speedo says 70mph when gps says 68mph). My guess is that the 175/60 is probably about 4mph off (ie speedo=70, gps=66). That is too large of a discrepancy for my tastes.
aaronrkelly - 2012-04-16 11:07 PM
kpVision - 2012-04-16 9:59 PM
I am getting close to replacing the rear on my 11 VV tour. Looks like about 11k but with bad cupping as normal. My 07 KP Tour did the same.
Really considering going to the dark side, but......Simple questions for the folks that are doing this...
1) What size tire do I need to migrate to the darkside? I like things to be as close to stock as possible with no fitment issue. Dont tow a trailer, but do load the bike heavy...2 up and luggage.
2) What brands are you using? I would like a mixture of performance and mileage...20k to 30k is what Im looking for.
3) Anyone live in the Charlotte NC area that knows of a shop that would do this?
I am asking for informational purposes only...not for a debate. LOL.
Thanks in advance!
1 - The closest to the actual OEM size is a 175/60-16. The problem is its an odd size and your choice of tires will be limited. Im currently using this size because the tire I usually buy was out of stock. Usually I buy a Bridgestone Potenza in 185/55-16, which worked great for me (I pull a trailer). Its a little bigger then the 175/60 and made my speedometer run about 3 miles fast, none the less I thought it was the perfect tire....alas they are discontinued in that size. In the 185/55 you will have a bit better selection then the 175/60. Most people run a 195/55-16 if they dont need the extra clearance for the trailer hitch. This size tire will have a 4 mph difference or so but will give you the best selection of tires.
175/60-16 - closest to stock size....works with a trailer hitch.....poor selection of tires
185/55-16 - works with a trailer hitch (generally accepted as the largest you can go).......better selection of tires
195/55-16 - rubs with the trailer hitch..............best selection of tires
My advise is to go to www.tirerack.com and read up on the different tires in those ranges and pick something you based on the ratings and reviews.
I still cant say enough great things about the Bridgestone Potenza G019 Grid.....exceptional tire and I got about 27K out of it with 3/10ths of tread left, I could have run it longer. I recommend it if you can get it in the size of your choosing. I havent ever seen it in 175/60.....near as I can tell nobody stocks and its been discontinued in the 185/55.
My current tire is the Goodyear Assurance Fuel Max in 175/60-16. I like it just fine and its a great darkside tire but I do think the Bridgestone is better. The Bridgestone seems to have just a bit better traction.....but since then Ive also changed to a different front tire so that may be where I sense the difference. |
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Iron Butt
Posts: 612
| Thomas - 2012-04-17 8:05 AM
kpVision - 2012-04-17 1:34 AM I appreciate the input, especially so quick. This is a big decision for me, as I like to keep "stock" parts so to speak. ...... +1 on the? Dunlop SP Winter Sport 3D RunOnFlat 175/60r/16 .? I like the 175mm width better then the 195mm width I had on the year before, plus I have a trailer hitch.
Put about 10,000 2up miles on the run flat tire last year without the TPMS, just recently purchased a TPMS and metal valve stems for the sensors. Maybe when the run flat tire needs to be replaced I'll take the valve stem core out and take it for a short low speed test ride, without my wife. Also been using dyna beads and some guys are having good luck with airsoft pellets for balancing.
? ?
?
Dynabeads in a run-flat? Don't some run-flats use supportive ribs inside the tire, which of course would inhibit the beads from dispersing around the tire?
Edited by Turk 2012-04-17 8:18 AM
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Iron Butt
Posts: 825
, WI | I put a 195/55R16 Bridgestone Potenza on my Vision.  
No issues. It's within 2 mph of my GPS at 70 mph. I also run 38 psi. 
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Central Wisconsin | Turk...Dynabeads in a run-flat? Don't some run-flats use supportive ribs inside the tire, which of course would inhibit the beads from dispersing around the tire? The Dunlop run flat has a smooth area in the center. Turk...My guess is that the 175/60 is probably about 4mph off (ie speedo=70, gps=66). That is too large of a discrepancy for my tastes. The Dunlop 175/60/16 is one mph off compared to the factory E3 at 60mph.
| Specification | Sidewall | Radius | Diameter | Circumference | Revolutions | Speedometer | Odometer | Difference |
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| 175/60-16 | 4.1" | 12.1" | 24.3" | 76.2" | 831/mi | 60MPH | 10000mi | N/A | | 180/60-16 | 4.3" | 12.3" | 24.5" | 77.0" | 823/mi | 59MPH | 9904mi | 1.0% | | 195/55-16 | 4.2" | 12.2" | 24.4" | 76.8" | 825/mi | 60MPH | 9928mi | 0.7% |
Edited by Thomas 2012-04-17 9:48 AM
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Tourer
Posts: 394
Tucson, AZ | +1 on the 195/55/16 Potenza. I'm on my third one. Two on a Honda Valkyrie and the one I'm running on my VV. The only difference is that I keep 35 psi in the tire. However I ride one up with no hitch and rarely have it loaded heavy, except me, 280 lbs. |
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Cruiser
Posts: 185
Rhode Island | Running the Dunlop 175/60R16 Winter Sport also, one of the few designed for a 5" rim; running 34-36psi with Dynabeads almost 3k on it and am happy with it all around.
Jim |
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Iron Butt
Posts: 612
| Thomas - 2012-04-17 9:41 AM
Turk...Dynabeads in a run-flat? Don't some run-flats use supportive ribs inside the tire, which of course would inhibit the beads from dispersing around the tire?The Dunlop run flat has a smooth area in the center. ?Turk...My guess is that the 175/60 is probably about 4mph off (ie speedo=70, gps=66). That is too large of a discrepancy for my tastes. The Dunlop 175/60/16 is one mph off compared to the factory E3 at 60mph.
? | Specification | Sidewall | Radius | Diameter | Circumference | Revolutions | Speedometer | Odometer | Difference |
|---|
| 175/60-16 | 4.1" | 12.1" | 24.3" | 76.2" | 831/mi | 60MPH | 10000mi | N/A | | 180/60-16 | 4.3" | 12.3" | 24.5" | 77.0" | 823/mi | 59MPH | 9904mi | 1.0% | | 195/55-16 | 4.2" | 12.2" | 24.4" | 76.8" | 825/mi | 60MPH | 9928mi | 0.7% |
As I said, the factory E3's are 2mph off of TRUE speed, as registered on the GPS. Going to a smaller circumference tire is going to increase the discrepancy from TRUE speed. The 175/60 and 185/55 are smaller circumference tires. The fact that the stock E3's are 2mph off is bad enough, but increasing that further to 3 or 4mph is not what I *personally* am comfortable doing. I'm trying to figure where you believe my statement is inaccurate ?
BTW, your chart is wrong..... the percentages are incorrect. Both the 175/60 and 195/55 make more revolutions per mile than the stock 180/60. So the E3 should show 0%, while the others should show varying degrees of inaccuracy compared to that.
Edited by Turk 2012-04-17 1:13 PM
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Central Wisconsin |
| Specification | Sidewall | Radius | Diameter | Circumference | Revolutions | Speedometer | Odometer | Difference |
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| 175/60-16 | 4.1" | 12.1" | 24.3" | 76.2" | 831/mi | 60MPH | 10000mi | N/A | | 180/60-16 | 4.3" | 12.3" | 24.5" | 77.0" | 823/mi | 59MPH | 9904mi | 1.0% | | 195/55-16 | 4.2" | 12.2" | 24.4" | 76.8" | 825/mi | 60MPH | 9928mi | 0.7% |
Turk... As I said, the factory E3's are 2mph off of TRUE speed, as registered on the GPS. Going to a smaller circumference tire is going to increase the discrepancy from TRUE speed. The 175/60 and 185/55 are smaller circumference tires. The fact that the stock E3's are 2mph off is bad enough, but increasing that further to 3 or 4mph is not what I *personally* am comfortable doing. I'm trying to figure where you believe my statement is inaccurate ? BTW, your chart is wrong..... the percentages are incorrect. Both the 175/60 and 195/55 make more revolutions per mile than the stock 180/60. So the E3 should show 0%, while the others should show varying degrees of inaccuracy compared to that. Thanks for pointing that out, I listed the Factory E3 MT first on the chart below. Here have some fun with it. Tire Calculator . Furthermore *my experience* the diameter on the MT tends to shorten faster then the CT, thus my odometer on bike is almost exact with the GPS.
| Specification | Sidewall | Radius | Diameter | Circumference | Revolutions | Speedometer | Odometer | Difference |
|---|
| 180/60-16 | 4.3" | 12.3" | 24.5" | 77.0" | 823/mi | 60MPH | 10000mi | N/A | | 175/60-16 | 4.1" | 12.1" | 24.3" | 76.2" | 831/mi | 61MPH | 10097mi | -1.0% | | 195/55-16 | 4.2" | 12.2" | 24.4" | 76.8" | 825/mi | 60MPH | 10024mi | -0.2% |
Edited by Thomas 2012-04-17 4:15 PM
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Visionary
Posts: 3773
Pittsburgh, PA | is there any chance your gps could be off. im not defending the E3's (hell no!) i just dont always have 100% faith in a gps. i have had 2 gps units in my car one time at the same time. and not only did they pick different routes, but they also couldnt agree i was doing the same speed. (1-2mph off) not a big deal.. but either way one of them or maybe even both of them were wrong.. |
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Visionary
Posts: 1229
Rancho Cucamonga, CA | All the car tires are slightly shorter than a stock E3. The 195/55 is closest, than the 175/60 and the shortest is the 185/55. With a E3, my GPS would read 50 and my speedometer would say 51. With the 175/60 it now says 52. My speedo was off by 2%, now it's off by 4%.
No matter the tire, there is about a 5-6mm diference between a new tire and a worn one. That will make about a 2% difference in speedo readings as well. A CT will spread that variance over 25-30k and a MT over 10-15k.
Edited by Nozzledog 2012-04-17 5:21 PM
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Visionary
Posts: 3773
Pittsburgh, PA | on a side note... i have been worried about going to a CT with my 11 vision because of the ABS system. i did the dark side on my 08 vision (195/55-16) but with abs there is a warning in the service manual for the 2011 vision where it warns about the effectiveness of the ABS system if you change the size of the tires. well today i talked to a CT dealer and told this person behind the counter i wanted to go with a 175/60-16 NOT 185/55-16 even thought the 175 is a special order.. the lady asked why and i told her ABS.. she instantly knew why... but she said as far as car goes the rule of thumb is to NOT exceed 3% of a difference between tire sizes for the ABS.. not sure if that rule applies to our visions or not.. i guess it really doesnt matter since none of the tires are that much of a difference in the first place.. I just wanted to share this info..
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Iron Butt
Posts: 612
| Nozzledog - 2012-04-17 5:14 PM
All the car tires are slightly shorter than a stock E3. The 195/55 is closest, than the 175/60 and the shortest is the 185/55. With a E3, my GPS would read 50 and my speedometer would say 51. With the 175/60 it now says 52. My speedo was off by 2%, now it's off by 4%.
No matter the tire, there is about a 5-6mm diference between a new tire and a worn one. That will make about a 2% difference in speedo readings as well. A CT will spread that variance over 25-30k and a MT over 10-15k.
Exactly! |
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Cruiser
Posts: 51
Okotoks, Alberta | OK I am convinced to give the DS a try. Two questions I have are:
1) Is there any noticeable noise difference in running CT vs MT?
2) No problems mounting a 195 on the 5" rim?
Thanks |
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Iron Butt
Posts: 623
| CT is more quiet and no issue with a 195 on a 5". I have tried a Potenza and a Hankook Ventues v4. I will be sticking with the Ventus. It won't last quite as long as a Potenza, but I feel the ride and performance have been much better on the Hankook. Hankook has a beed lock, Higher speed rating, higher weight rating, higher PSI allowed, and has a more rounded edge to the tire. Good luck |
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Cruiser
Posts: 56
| So.....basically if I want to do this, I need to stick with a 195/55 16 to be as close to stock as possible? And only be off by a 1mph or 2?
Another question....It seems that when coming to a stop on uneven pavement that the tire would alway be looking to level out. Im very short, 5,7 160 pounds and the bike is very easy to stop and I feel completely comforatable on it....even 2 up. Does a CT convert to more effort holding the bike up when stopped on unlevel surfaces going slow? I have found 2 dealers that will do this!
Can I also ask for some pics from some of you that has a 195/55 from the back?
Thanks so much for all of the info over tha past few days....I'm "almost" converted on this idea.
Edited by kpVision 2012-04-18 12:29 PM
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Cruiser
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Akron, Ohio | I don't have any pics right now, but I have notices no differemce as far as wiggle or wobbles coming to a stop. It made a huge difference when I greased and my steering stem bearing. Much better when I got done.
Edited by handyhiker 2012-04-18 4:37 PM
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Tourer
Posts: 395
Moravia, IA | http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v67/aaronrkelly/Vehicles/Picture0... |
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Visionary
Posts: 4278
| kpVision
you'll find a car tire is not that of big deal. After a thousand miles you'll be riding like being on a bike tire. The only thing I really notice if there is a cron in the road I do get push or moved to one side or the other. Once you under stand that its a thing of the past.
Stoping is very easy and on windy days you balance better I think.
If your that short I would and wish I would have put the 175/60-16 tire on. |
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Visionary
Posts: 1229
Rancho Cucamonga, CA | The difference between the 195/55 and 175/60 radius is 2mm. An average CT tire will lose 7mm from new till the time it needs to be replaced (a MT-6mm), so 2mm is negligible. So when a Dunlop E3 has 5-6k miles on it, it will be the same diameter as a new Wintersport. When an E3 needs to be replaced, it will be the same diameter as a Wintersport with 10k on it.
On a side note, wider tires last longer. So if you are looking for the most miles, go with the wider tire. That is the only advantage a wider tire has. |
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Puddle Jumper
Posts: 15
Welch Minnesota | donetracey - 2010-12-22 1:36 PM
sonicbluerider - 2010-12-22 11:26 AM Good god man all he asked about was psi not for some anti darkside tirade I like the "TIREADE" better! Why not add a 3rd wheel for those days when motorcycling is not your thing. Or better yet - a FOURTH!!! Then you would have a nice dune-buggy. I have said this before (as have car tire manufacturers) - if car tires worked better on a bike - then new bikes would come with them. Believe what you want - you know, "toothfairy", "Santa", "RED is the fastest color" - all that stuff.
Nothing would be farther from the truth then that.
Now days the manufacturing companies learn alot from the consumer.
I am in the snowmobile industry and the Mountain riders and performance shops accross the country have show the factories almost every good idea you see produced by the OEMs was copied from things we the public designed.
I am an absolute tire freak on my Trucks & cars, I live in the Midwest and we live in the sticks and alots of times we don't wait for the plows, And safety for my Wife & kids is top priority. we run winter only tires with tons of siping and super softy compound tires.
When I first heard about CT's on bikes I figured for sure it was because people were cheap and they were trying to save money only. Then I bought a Vision last fall and I drove it in some poor wether and on gravel roads.
I did not like the performance of the E3 at all in the following conditions ( Wet, slippery conditions, cold to below freezing temps, and gravel road riding ) I started looking for a softer siped tire with deeper tread. I found nothing I liked and the motorcycle tire shops I called all thought I was nuts and said the E3 was a good tire. Its a peice of sh!t !! PERIOD !! As soon I got done reading CT threads all over the place and I saw a picture of a Dunlop winter sport on a Vision I ordered one that same day it will be here 4/25/12 and I can't wait.
I wish tere was a CT tire that fit my front rim, After I get the rear tire on and try it I already know I am going to like it.............There is nothing like driving with good soft tires with lots of siping. ( A Vision isn't a sport bike to me ) Its all about safety I ordered my tire monitor also.
If you ask me the Motorcycle tires have along way to go when it comes to cold roads, wet roads and gravel road performance not to mention if you get caught in wet conditions and the temp drops to 32 degrees the winter spot will make you feel like you are riding with an Angel in your pocket.
I might even have a custom front wheel built so I can run a runflat winter tire up front also just so I can test it, If I don't like it I will change it.
The human brain is designed to always find a better way.
My 2 cents. |
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Visionary
Posts: 8144
New Bohemia, VA | Application - it's all about the application, sounds like you have something that works for you, but not for the masses... |
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Cruiser
Posts: 204
guelph ontario | I tried a really wide drag racing slick on the back. Great contact patch but only advantage was that the side stand could be eliminated. |
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Iron Butt
Posts: 741
Central New York | Almost makes you wonder why tire manufacturers go through all that expense to design a tire and have the molds built, if they are all interchangeable. Wasteful, I guess. I think the final answer would be; what are they using on the race circuit? I would think that if a good ole "Potenza" is good enough for the oval track, it should be good enough for everyone. |
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Visionary
Posts: 8144
New Bohemia, VA | Not that it would be a major issue to a darksider, but I wonder if there is any data on the wear of other components related to the use of a car tire. Things like brakes, bearings, belt, bushings, clutch, and the rear shock. Perhaps the affect and effect on the other components using a car tire is minute, but it has to change the dynamics some. Anyone have any thoughts? |
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Puddle Jumper
Posts: 15
Welch Minnesota | varyder - 2012-04-23 9:41 AM
Not that it would be a major issue to a darksider, but I wonder if there is any data on the wear of other components related to the use of a car tire. Things like brakes, bearings, belt, bushings, clutch, and the rear shock. Perhaps the affect and effect on the other components using a car tire is minute, but it has to change the dynamics some. Anyone have any thoughts?
Good points everyone, and yes I have a few thoughts.
As far as Victory testing goes I would guess its damn little on tires, I would guess its here the bike specs to all tire builders and then the lowest bidder gets the sale. Polaris stocks are not high because they buy high and sell low. Its quite the opposite I would guess.
As for professional riders testing tries on sport bikes means nothing to me.
And as far as wear goes on the Bike I do not care either I will watch wear parts like a hawk.
My main concern is when I am caught off guard by sand, water, due, or even ice or a truck spilled something.
After driving something for along time you learn the limits of what the tires and the bike can take in perfect conditions. ( Its the conditions that surprise me that I want the biggest safety net I can get I have kids and a family that need me ) A soft compond highly siped tire is the best chance you have bar none.
And Have search for a MT that fits this need and I can't find it. The wintersort Dunlop gives me exactly what I want as far as what I have been able to find available.
I build custom crankshafts for Polaris snowmobile motors and mine are better in every way then the factory but they cost double the price.
Do not ever believe that the factory uses the best of anything.
When building an air plane do you honestly believe that all the builders ahve not put a price on the cost of a human life ??
They have NOT put a cost on a human life ( The public has ) If there was 2 planes going to everywhere in the world.
#1 - couldn't crash no matter what because of unlimited sately features ( Airfare $3500.00 per ticket coach )
#2 - normal plane they build today ( Airfare $350.00 )
Which plane do you think is the fullest ??
Bottom-line is study like a madman and do what works for you and nobody else.
A CT an't for everyone and I am not sure they are for me but I will test it and I will hands down know which one is best for what I want.
Think how many people have died testing things & pushing them to the limit.........This topic should always be discussed but never argued about by people who do not in fact know the difference under absolutely every condition and rider combo there is.
One accident a guys dies because his own body weight killed him.
The next accident a guy survives a surely deadly crash because he was fat.
" Days of Thunder " Son............ Tires Win Races.
I can promise you this................ Take the best bike & rider there is with stock tires on a OEM bike in rain or snow and put a set of Brdgestone Blizzacks on it and the guy with the CT will tear him a new a$$.
Then take the exact same bike in 95 degree heat on a curvy test track and the OEM package wins.
I am not the best rider, and I am NEVER going on a Test track with my Vision but I will ride in rain and I could hit snow by some chance even though I hope I never do.
Great topic. And I do love to hear everyones views.
Dan |
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Tourer
Posts: 329
scotts valley, California | Some gum, this dog ain't dead yet! Which is all fine and dandy for me. Every time I replace tires, I go with the E3's, and every time I kind of wonder why I did that.......... Maybe next time. Factors for me are: stick to the road in unanticipated situations, economy, maneuverability, comfort, convenience. To date I have not heard any reports of CT or MT failures in this forum that would indicate that either should be avoided. |
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Visionary
Posts: 8144
New Bohemia, VA | I've taken E3 on my Vision through the snow, 9 miles, without falling and maintained a steady pace of 45 - 50 mph at below freezing temps... just saying. I have to give it to the darksiders, there is passion. But dispite all the hype, I've yet to read anything that would convince me to put a car tire on, except a trip through Alaska... |
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Visionary
Posts: 3773
Pittsburgh, PA | i just went to the dark side today (for the 3rd time on 3 bikes) . a buddy and myself were installing car tires on our bikes. he was Reinstalling a ct on his goldwing. his last CT only lasted 28000-29000 before it needed replaced. but it didnt cost him more than $140 anyways. so i guess not a bad deal. he uses a car tire because he is almost at 80000 miles on his 2.5 year old GW. This time for a CT i went with a good year assurance Fuel Max in the size 175/60-16 |
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Visionary
Posts: 8144
New Bohemia, VA | Arkainzeye - 2012-04-23 5:13 PM he uses a car tire because he is almost at 80000 miles on his 2.5 year old GW. ????? |
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Tourer
Posts: 395
Moravia, IA | varyder - 2012-04-23 4:24 PM
Arkainzeye - 2012-04-23 5:13 PM ?he uses a car tire because he is almost at 80000 miles on his 2.5 year old GW. ?????
I think hes getting at that his friend rides alot and therefore doesnt want to spend the time and money changing tires so often.
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Visionary
Posts: 8144
New Bohemia, VA | aaronrkelly - 2012-04-23 5:29 PM varyder - 2012-04-23 4:24 PM Arkainzeye - 2012-04-23 5:13 PM ?he uses a car tire because he is almost at 80000 miles on his 2.5 year old GW. ????? I think hes getting at that his friend rides alot and therefore doesnt want to spend the time and money changing tires so often. Ahhhhh! I see.... |
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Visionary
Posts: 3773
Pittsburgh, PA | aaronrkelly - 2012-04-23 4:29 PM
varyder - 2012-04-23 4:24 PM
Arkainzeye - 2012-04-23 5:13 PM ?he uses a car tire because he is almost at 80000 miles on his 2.5 year old GW. ?????
I think hes getting at that his friend rides alot and therefore doesnt want to spend the time and money changing tires so often.
+1
i can imagine what 80000 miles worth of Rear MC tires would of cost in 2.5 yrs... i think that rear tire lists for $250-$275 plus labor if your dealer does the install. for me though its not always about the money. its about the hassle.. my dealers usually want you to "leave it". thats why some of the work ive done on my 08 vision i didnt even bother filing a insurance/warranty claim. i do get a kick talking to and seeing the guys that ride hardcore and use a CT.. Tens of thousands of miles of experience and not just with one ct but with all the other ones they have tried. kinda like how we are with mc tires, avon, dunlop etc..
Edited by Arkainzeye 2012-04-23 5:17 PM
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Visionary
Posts: 8144
New Bohemia, VA | I've put on about 7 rear tires and about 5 front tires in the past 4 and half years, all E3s on my Vision. On my previous bike, the Gold Wing, I ran E3s as well, bias, since it was the older Wing. I'm not as tough as your friend, I only put on about 70,000 miles after 2.5 years.... |
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Visionary
Posts: 3773
Pittsburgh, PA | varyder - 2012-04-23 8:14 PM
I've put on about 7 rear tires and about 5 front tires in the past 4 and half years, all E3s on my Vision. On my previous bike, the Gold Wing, I ran E3s as well, bias, since it was the older Wing. I'm not as tough as your friend, I only put on about 70,000 miles after 2.5 years....
in all fairness he is retired... nothing but time.. he has a camper/trailer he tows behind his bike and camps all over the place. thats another reason why he went CT. this trailer is Not light weight... lol its soo nice inside. like a mobile motel.. =) |
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Iron Butt
Posts: 623
| Any darksiders try a general g-max tire? I am thinking about. It seem similar to the hankook ventus v4 that I loved, but the ventus lasted only 14k. Sides are worn off, I kept it at 40psi but hit the twisties much more than the slab.
If anyone has any info on the general I'd appriciate it. I'm trying to stay away from the run flats. And I like the g-max specs and the fact it has bead lock like the Ventus.
Thanks |
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Central Wisconsin | jeffmack - 2012-04-24 9:29 AM Any darksiders try a general g-max tire?... If anyone has any info on the general I'd appriciate it. I'm trying to stay away from the run flats. ... Thanks I was unable to get the correct size Dunlop Winter Sport for my other bike so I installed a General Altimax , seems like a good tire. The General G-Max is not available in 185mm or 175mm, for us using hitch-doc trailer hitches.
Just curious why are you are staying away from a Run-Flat? I would much rather have a run-flat on the back if I was to get a flat. Unless your thinking the bike might get unstable and you not knowing the run-flat is flat? IMHO ... out of the three different CT's that * I have experienced * I like the Dunlop Winter Sport the best.
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Visionary
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Pittsburgh, PA | i heard mixed results on runflats. Mostly good stuff. but a few have said you might be running on a tire that is low or out of air and not know it.. for me i just carry a tire plug kit and a portable air pump int he compartment where the CD player goes. I have nothing against run flat tires. i just heard mixed opinions about them |
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Iron Butt
Posts: 623
| I don't want a run flat due to the handeling that the stiff sidewall delivers. I was able to ride a run flat and non run flat holding back to back. To me the non run flat handled very well, hard to tell a CT was on. The run flat tire didn't handle like I wanted and transition into and outta turns were not seem less. As far as getting a flat, shit happens. As long as I have a bead lock I'm good with it. It rather know psi is getting pissed out ASAP and pull over and patch it, been done before unfortunately. Just my 2 cents answering a question. We all have our reasons for what we ride on. |
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Visionary
Posts: 3773
Pittsburgh, PA | jeffmack - 2012-04-24 2:33 PM
I don't want a run flat due to the handeling that the stiff sidewall delivers. I was able to ride a run flat and non run flat holding back to back. To me the non run flat handled very well, hard to tell a CT was on. The run flat tire didn't handle like I wanted and transition into and outta turns were not seem less. As far as getting a flat, shit happens. As long as I have a bead lock I'm good with it. It rather know psi is getting pissed out ASAP and pull over and patch it, been done before unfortunately. Just my 2 cents answering a question. We all have our reasons for what we ride on.
+1 |
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Visionary
Posts: 1229
Rancho Cucamonga, CA | Run Flat was one of the key reasons I went to a CT. My parents went down on the fwy due to a sudden loss of rear tire pressure (flat) and spent several years recovering.
I find the Run Flat is pleny soft in the sidewall if you keep the pressure below 38, then it feels just like the E3.
I also have a TPMS, since I have heard the same stories (also to keep an eye on the front tire), but I would like to hear from someone that has actually rode one without air in it. I have to believe that you CAN feel a difference.
If they ever come out with a Run Flat MT, I might switch back.
50 miles @ 50mph on a flat sounds good to me. |
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Cruiser
Posts: 244
| Darkside Flat, big puncher. Got some first hand experience Friday on running a (G-19) Bridgestone Potenza 185/55R16 with a hole punched in it to the left of center in the outer most groove. Saw something in the highway, moved over to the rite anuff to miss it with the front tire. Still got a loud noise that sounded like It broke off my front fender Plexaglass mud flap. About a mile or so down the road (doing 70) on a banked curve to the left,(I75 mile marker 219.8, headed North) it felt like the rear was easing left, need to stop and see what gives. I knew when I started to slow down I Had a Flat. The rim just pushed down on the tire, even flat it looked like a Motorcycle tire half full. The tire stayed seated to the rim all the way around. Never got any side to side movement from the tire. The hole in the tire was on the left side. I moved over anuff to miss the front tire but not anuff to miss the wider rear. The whole was about the size of a wooden pencil (looked like a 22 was shot thru it). Called the VMA road assist they sent a flat bed tow that had the rite stuff for a motorcycle. They called ahead to St. Petersburg FL. Victory dealer who said he'd be open till 8 pm. We got their at 7:45 and they started rite away. The owner said the shop people (2) could stay till they got me back on the road and let them lock up. Can't say anuff good words about this dealer!
I will tell you that I can't wait to get my CT back on. Noticed a BIG difference going from a CT to MT & I don't like it (MT). Less stable, less braking, over steer in the turns. Didn't notice that much different when I went from MT to CT, I just knew I liked it and felt safe with it. I won't feel safe again till I get another CT, may not even wait till I wear the MT out. I'm a cheapskate I will wait. |
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Central Wisconsin | Rick ... Good to hear your alright after that CT flat. Your CT testament is reassuring on how well the CT held up, under extreme conditions. Just wondering were you 2up?
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Tourer
Posts: 329
scotts valley, California | Great/influencing testimony, Rick. And that was not even a Run Flat, right?
I had a similar experience with an E3 a couple of years ago; probably rode ten miles on a rear flat wondering why the bike did not feel quite right.
Somebody please kick me if I don' go darkside next tire change! |
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Visionary
Posts: 8144
New Bohemia, VA | I'm glad to hear you are okay after your little mishap. While I comtemplate many, many times to go C/T on my Vision, there is always a compelling reason I do not. I appreciate the longevity of a car tire, and the cost, a saving of somewhere in the range of 300%. I appreciate the time saved in removing and having the tire changed out, for me, about every 6 months. Your comments reinforces my reason why I have not gone to a car tire to date. You even add to the list another reason that finally settles it for me and I am going to lay down my pursuit and research of the potential benefits of a car tire on a motorcycle. I've now added to my short list of benefits of a car tire, 1) you won't go up in flames, 2) it save you lots of money, and 3) and it saves you time. The rest is just a placebo...
I bow out of any further discussion of the darkside (do I hear a <sigh> of relief?) and will only muse myself in lurking at the wonderful world you all have found. Ride hard, ride long, ride safe.... |
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Cruiser
Posts: 244
| I was one up with light luggage, bags & trunk were full though, with clothes. It was just a plain Tire. " Varyder", I'd be curious what remarks made you commit to not being a Darksider? |
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Central Wisconsin | Rick Farrar - 2012-04-26 9:47 AM I was one up with light luggage, bags & trunk were full though, with clothes. It was just a plain Tire....
I was curious what load you had because I ride the Vision almost 100% of the time 2up. I feel very confident with the Dunlop run-flat holding up if it were to get a flat. I'm thinking of cautiously testing it out by taking out the valve stem core sometime before the CT needs to be replaced. Sure is GREAT to hear how well your CT held up and in your words " The tire stayed seated to the rim all the way around. Never got any side to side movement from the tire. The hole in the tire was on the left side." Equally GREAT to hear on how well the E3 held up for the BSG There's always going to be CT naysayers especially from the ones that never tried it.
Edited by Thomas 2012-04-26 10:29 AM
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Iron Butt
Posts: 752
Broken Arrow, OK | I'm 2up, 100% also. With encouragement from my wife, UPS shows Thursday to deliver my Michelin Primacy Alpin 195/55/16.
Also going with a Stone G709 front tire.
At 7400 miles, my rear OEM E3 is cupped so badly I can't stand riding due to the HOWL. I'm a freak about tire pressures, run a tire-safeguard system and check them before every ride. I've adjusted from 42-40 lbs throughout the 7400 miles and couldn't control the cupping. The front E3 looks pretty good but I'm replacing it with the BStone anyway.
I have 2 weekender trips in May and will add around 1500 miles to the bike and will honestly report my impressions, good or bad, after our trips. I am NOT an aggressive rider and will restrain my thoughts about those of you who are, outside of a racetrack environment, lol. I'm stoked about running a zero pressure tire from a safety standpoint and hopefully it will fit the bill for us and our laid back style of old man riding. If you've ever been behind us on some twisties, you've probably cussed me and I don't give a rats azz I've personally witnessed over the years, several horrible, BAD scenes from riders thinking they were racers on public twisty roads so when I hear the naysayer argument about "you'll never keep up on the twisties", you can bank on it that I think you're an idiot, but each to their own. I probably was a lot like that......25 or 30 years ago.
Keep it safe and enjoy. |
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Iron Butt
Posts: 623
| Okie, I get a Alpin on thursday too. Actually ordered 2. Sounds like a great tire. Ive steered clear of the run flats, but after riding a buddies bike with a Alpin on it it handles the turns much better than other run flats... Cant wait. im gonna start at 34 psi and see how she feels let me know what you think |
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Tourer
Posts: 329
scotts valley, California | Where did you order that Alpin from, Okie? And is that G19 rated? |
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Iron Butt
Posts: 752
Broken Arrow, OK | Ordered mine from Tireteam.com
http://www.tireteam.com/Tires/Michelin/Primacy+Alpin+PA3...
It's the winter version of the tire. They also make a summer version. Concensus agrees the winter compound is a tad stickier and preferred by darksiders.
The Bridgestone G709 is a radial , speed rated H, most commonly used as standard replacement on Goldwings. Same 63 load rating as the Elite 3's.
I should add, some folks have found this tire at Sam's clubs and are getting them shipped to their stores.
Edited by okie vision 2012-05-02 6:50 AM
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Iron Butt
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Broken Arrow, OK | jeffmack - 2012-05-01 8:13 PM
Okie, I get a Alpin on thursday too. Actually ordered 2. Sounds like a great tire. Ive steered clear of the run flats, but after riding a buddies bike with a Alpin on it it handles the turns much better than other run flats... Cant wait. im gonna start at 34 psi and see how she feels let me know what you thinkIt would be nice to find this tire enjoyable to ride on. I too will try a 32 to 35 psi range to figure it out. Also look forward to comparing the pressure/temp difference on my TPMS compared to the Dunlop. I'll report back but not until we've put some substantial good/or bad, lol, miles on it. For me, this isn't about some "darksider" thing. It's about being safe on our trips. Where I live, we've recently had 2 separate accidents involving 2 up couples where a rear tire blowout caused fatalities in both accidents.
I will set my lo pressure alarm on the monitor for 29 lbs and ride confidently knowing that should I begin to lose sudden air in the rear tire, I'll know it and with run flat technology, should be able to bring this big beast to a safe stop. Hope you enjoy yours too Jeff. |
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Central Wisconsin | jeffmack - 2012-05-01 8:13 PM...Ive steered clear of the run flats, but after riding a buddies bike with a Alpin on it it handles the turns much better than other run flats... Jeff, I'm curious what brand and width of run-flat CT you had before and if it was mounted on the Vision?
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Iron Butt
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| I have ridden on a Kumho RF on a Vision and a Dunlop wintersportRF on a goldwing. I thought the wintersport was better then the Kumho as far as turning and turn transitions, but neither was quite as good as a non run flat that ive tried. on a goldwing darkside tire forum i read scores of good posts about the Alpin and how it handles, found a guy on the forum that lives less than 20 miles form me. he was kind enough to meet me and let me try. The Alpin transitioned very well for a RF and the ride was great, I was sold then and there. BTW, he enjoyed the Vision, he said he has ridden one before, but not one that was Kevin X'd, and couldnt believe how it pulled....loved hearing that |
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Puddle Jumper
Posts: 13
Saint George, Utah | With all the pages to this thread, I most likely missed an answer to this question. And since I didnt see it I will ask......
Where do you guys get CT's installed? I mean I cant see a motor cycle dealer doing it without a "liability claus speach" and same from an auto tire dealer.
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Cruiser
Posts: 258
Akron, Ohio | BigEd - 2012-05-02 11:32 AM
With all the pages to this thread, I most likely missed an answer to this question. And since I didnt see it I will ask......
Where do you guys get CT's installed? I mean I cant see a motor cycle dealer doing it without a "liability claus speach" and same from an auto tire dealer.
There is a tire dealer down the street from me that charges $20 to dismount the MT, mount the CT, balance the CT tire and dispose of the old tire. He is not a chain tire store but an independent. My guess is that chain stores will not mount one as there insurance is strict. Try the local place that sells used tires and is privately owned. |
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Visionary
Posts: 8144
New Bohemia, VA | It's all perception - where is the liability? I would venture to say it is more concern about messing up your rim by doing something they are not familiar with then it is about liability after you leave the place. One dealer I know, one guy will not do the car tire on a motorcycle rim, but the other guy will with no problem. It's not a big deal... |
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Central Wisconsin | jeffmack - 2012-05-02 9:34 AM I have ridden on a Kumho RF on a Vision and a Dunlop wintersportRF on a goldwing. I thought the wintersport was better then the Kumho as far as turning and turn transitions, but neither was quite as good as a non run flat that ive tried. on a goldwing darkside tire forum i read scores of good posts about the Alpin and how it handles, found a guy on the forum that lives less than 20 miles form me. he was kind enough to meet me and let me try. The Alpin transitioned very well for a RF and the ride was great, I was sold then and there. BTW, he enjoyed the Vision, he said he has ridden one before, but not one that was Kevin X'd, and couldnt believe how it pulled....loved hearing that Good information... the 195mm Michelin primacy Alpin PA3 GRN looks like a good CT choice for not having a trailer hitch and has the 3D sipes like the 175mm Dunlop Winter RF. I have yet to ride a Vision with the cams, been trying to convince my wife it's necessary to have the extra power when pulling a trailer...lol!
Edited by Thomas 2012-05-02 2:52 PM
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Iron Butt
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, WI | BigEd - 2012-05-02 10:32 AM With all the pages to this thread, I most likely missed an answer to this question. And since I didnt see it I will ask...... Where do you guys get CT's installed? I mean I cant see a motor cycle dealer doing it without a "liability claus speach" and same from an auto tire dealer. I went to a local tire dealer. I said - cash, no receipt and I was never here. They mounted the tire. |
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Visionary
Posts: 1229
Rancho Cucamonga, CA | Take the wheel in and say it's for a trike. |
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Iron Butt
Posts: 752
Broken Arrow, OK | jeffmack - 2012-05-01 8:13 PM
Okie, I get a Alpin on thursday too. Actually ordered 2. Mine was on the porch tonight. Yours come too Jeff? I don't have time to get it mounted. We leave in the morning for a weekend with a local riding group. I hope they'll excuse my E3 howling for one more get together! |
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Iron Butt
Posts: 623
| mine came as well...wont get her on till the 16th...will update then looking forward to it |
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Iron Butt
Posts: 752
Broken Arrow, OK | All done. Now running a Michelin Primacy Alpin 195*55*16 rear and a Bridgestone Exedra G709 front.
Left the house this past Friday with the OEM Dunlops @ 7500 miles cause I didn't have anytime to get the CT mounted up. Returned Sunday with 8300 miles, so it's safe to say I got 8300 miles out of the rear Elite III. The front OEM Elite had more to go.
Only a short ride tonight to spread out the "RideOn" balancing sealant in the front tire. I used 3 oz's of Dynabeads in the rear CT. Wife went with me and it felt very very nice but I'll wait a few weeks to really appraise this combo. We have a couple LONG weekenders coming up.
I will say, this being my first experience with a Vision, the rear tire removal was fine, reinstalling was a beotch for me alone. I took MUCH longer than it should have taken, lol. Had my wife not come home and helped line things up I'd probably still be out there.
Got both tires mounted at a local car tire shop for 29 bucks.
Ride safe! Added a few pics in my album.
Edited by okie vision 2012-05-07 7:40 PM
(New Tires, Vision 019 (Medium).JPG)
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New Tires, Vision 019 (Medium).JPG (63KB - 8 downloads)
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Visionary
Posts: 3773
Pittsburgh, PA | i have to agree with you that it is harder to reinstall the wheel than remove it!!! i used to have a 08 vision and i dont remember it being as hard as it was on my 11.. i know its all the same but DAMN... i was starting to get pissed!! all the more reason why i am glad i went with a CT (less changes) tonight was my first time riding 2up with my 175/60-16 Good Year Assurance Fuel Max tire. it rode soooo smooth! |
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Iron Butt
Posts: 752
Broken Arrow, OK | I will not release the number of times I was up and down with the floor jack, lol. My knees are shot anyway and this was a trying time.
I lack patience and my dealer, as well as all other MC shops are closed on Mondays and of course I wanted this done Monday!!
That Goodyear looks like a nice tire. Hope you enjoy it. |
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Visionary
Posts: 3773
Pittsburgh, PA | hey Okie vision, when i did my recent CT i was talking to myself looking up under the bike..LOL "i dont remember needing another set of hands" then a bunch of F. U.'s! im still confused why i was able to remove my rear wheel on my 08 vision more than 3 times and reinstall it and not loose my mind. but i do it 1 time on my 11 and i dont want to ever remove the rear wheel again now.... (unless i have another set of hands) btw im still using the same sears motorcycle jack i bought in 2003 for $79.. i havd used it on 5 bikes. it must of paid for itself no less than 20 times over if not more.. its looking like hell.. it might be time for a new one.. |
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Iron Butt
Posts: 752
Broken Arrow, OK | Arkainzeye - 2012-05-08 8:05 AM
then a bunch of F. U.'s! LMAO I think I heard you or it might have been my echo in the garage! That's funny stuff right there. A vid cam would be funny to do but it would need to be well hidden cause if I found it during a rear tire change I would throw that sucker sooooo far................ I knew I needed more hands and I got tired of hearing myself say.."you have GOT to be kidding me...REALLY?" Those were the only non cuss words I remember using. |
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Visionary
Posts: 8144
New Bohemia, VA | Very easy to install the rear wheel, use a long screwdriver to help keep things lined up to make it even easier... |
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Iron Butt
Posts: 752
Broken Arrow, OK | Good grief Virginia, where's the fun in that? |
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Visionary
Posts: 3773
Pittsburgh, PA | varyder - 2012-05-08 10:46 AM
Very easy to install the rear wheel, use a long screwdriver to help keep things lined up to make it even easier...
funny you mentioned that... i could have used your advice sooner. because what i did was, i used a very long 1/4 inch extention arm , its well over a foot long and thats what allowed me to get it all back together. =) |
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Visionary
Posts: 8144
New Bohemia, VA | okie vision - 2012-05-08 12:27 PM Good grief Virginia, where's the fun in that? I know, right. I can hit it without aide, in the dark, with my eyes close. Others need assistance to get it moving.... |
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Visionary
Posts: 2118
Pitt Meadows, BC Canada | New E3's Friday - dealer installed and I get a nice weekend ride as part of the package. Doesn't get ANY better than that!
Tires: $600
Accomodation at a couple of Washington State resorts: $400 = $1,000 (exactly what my Canadian dealer wants for E3's installed) |
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Iron Butt
Posts: 1117
Northeast Ohio | "Mr. Tire Load Rating" is interested in darkside. I am curious for those that have been darkside for a while and went from an all-season to winter only tire. Did you notice any handling differences? I know when I run winter tires on the car, it feels loose in the warmer months (early spring - never tried them in the summer). I would imagine the grip would be better with a winter tire given the softer compound. |
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Puddle Jumper
Posts: 15
Welch Minnesota | I have about 1000 miles on my Rear Winter Sport CT and I like it way better then the stock E3.
Yes the bike has changed alittle.
#1 its more stable at slow parade speed.
#2 it has unbelievable traction in cold weather on cold roads
#3 - I am not spooked about driving on wet grass in camp grounds anymore.
#4 - It handles better on my gravel road ( Just ordered a 150/60ZR18 ) for the front I hope it fits
between the forks. ( hate the front 130 width. )
#5 - It seems to take a tiny bit more counter steer then the E3 ( Much better ) and I really like it better in the sharp quick corners, The tire givens me more confidence that if I hit a touch of sand or anything else that the soft compond will bite and grab the road without skidding out.
my 2 cents. |
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Tourer
Posts: 329
scotts valley, California | What brand and size is that Rear Winter Sport? Do you have any idea how it will hold up to three digit temps?
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Visionary
Posts: 4278
| To all guys that have a vision and check the air in the rear tire. I put a mark on the rim so as to roll the wheel and not have to get on hands and knees but "once"
I had to tell my brain not to rub mark off. By the way its black paint.
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Cruiser
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Phenix City AL. | I just had the winter sport put on 175/60/16, I like it but the only issue I have is, when turning sharp (out of a drive way or off a side street) and get on the gas hard, I can feel the tread move then grip the road. Its a soft tire. It handles great on the road and in a hard rain.
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Cruiser
Posts: 258
Akron, Ohio | okie vision - 2012-05-07 8:38 PM
All done. Now running a Michelin Primacy Alpin 195*55*16 rear and a Bridgestone Exedra G709 front.
Left the house this past Friday with the OEM Dunlops @ 7500 miles cause I didn't have anytime to get the CT mounted up. Returned Sunday with 8300 miles, so it's safe to say I got 8300 miles out of the rear Elite III. The front OEM Elite had more to go.
Only a short ride tonight to spread out the "RideOn" balancing sealant in the front tire. I used 3 oz's of Dynabeads in the rear CT. Wife went with me and it felt very very nice but I'll wait a few weeks to really appraise this combo. We have a couple LONG weekenders coming up.
I will say, this being my first experience with a Vision, the rear tire removal was fine, reinstalling was a beotch for me alone. I took MUCH longer than it should have taken, lol. Had my wife not come home and helped line things up I'd probably still be out there.
Got both tires mounted at a local car tire shop for 29 bucks.
Ride safe! Added a few pics in my album.
That is a good looking tire. I will be interested to hear if the tread squirms in a turn. With that many sipes, curious as to the stability. |
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Visionary
Posts: 4278
| I'm running 38psi and have all most 10 thousand on mine and find it to be good if not great. I go threw the twisters just fine lean like I all ways do. Yes maybe some sharp turn you might have a funny feeling but then thats the way you ride. Keep in mind the CT is only as good as we push it. Lean over to far or turn to sharp and yes you'll have troubles but then wouldn't we with a MC tire. I have all ways been one that leans to far into corners and then and now my floor boards will tell you my story. One thing is you will have to relax on crown roads till you get the hang of it and then all will be good.
For $115 bucks as to $225 buck you decide |
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Puddle Jumper
Posts: 15
Welch Minnesota | Blue Sky Guy - 2012-05-09 1:03 PM
What brand and size is that Rear Winter Sport?? Do you have any idea how it will hold up to three digit temps?
Its a Dunlop Winter Sport - SP 175/60R/16 3D.
I absolutely love Winter Tires, I run winter Only Tires on 4 vehicles.
#1 - 2004 Cummins 1 Ton Dodge Dually with 6 Blizzacks on it.
#2 - Jeep Grand Cherekee Blizzacks
#3 - 1995 Ford Taurus ( Parts runner )
#4 - 2012 Equinox ( Wifes Unit ) This is the only one I have 2 sets of rims and I change hers back to summer tires because she drives to many miles. ( The first time I put Blizzacks on here Car ) She came home from work and said I can't believe I have never had snow tires before...... She said they are unbelieveable. In the fall when she hears that there is snow in the forcast she says I need my snow tires put on NOW !!!
Yes the Winter Only Tires wear way faster on a Car or truck but the traction is second to none.
And as far as being alittle sqishy on a car or truck yes they are. But on a car your throwing thousands of pounds at the tire sideways.
As far as the bikes handling to me....... I can tell its alittle shorter just because it bites everything so much better.
And the way it handles on my gravel road is priceless compared to the stock E3
To me there is nothing to get use to other then it feels safer to me.
Dan |
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Tourer
Posts: 444
Bay of Gigs, WA | Question: Which side is considered "white wall out?" |
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Iron Butt
Posts: 825
, WI | My new snow tire - 
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Visionary
Posts: 1229
Rancho Cucamonga, CA | Now you just have to break it in for 500 miles, then you can post a comparison with the CT you just took off. |
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Tourer
Posts: 329
scotts valley, California | Nozz, would you consider a snow tire for your neck of the woods?
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Iron Butt
Posts: 752
Broken Arrow, OK | Our first miles on the Michelin today. A 300 mile hamburger run. Not enough to really rate what I think. As a passenger, my wife already has it rated, lol, and I'm going to have difficulty if I end up with another rear MC tire. They are simply that nice and smooth (soft) for a passenger. Rode a mix of city streets, old rte 66 and came home on the 75mph turnpike.
VITO, Victory in the Ozarks is next weekend in Eureka Springs, Arkansas. We'll have plenty of gorgeous mountain country riding and surely after that I'll have an opinion.
Ran 36# on the rear CT and 40# on the new front Bridgestone Exedra MC. Smooth and quiet.....oops, is that a hint? but after riding several thousand miles on our cupping "screaming monkey" rear OEM tire, anything would seem better. |
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Central Wisconsin | Blue Sky Guy - 2012-05-09 1:03 PM What brand and size is that Rear Winter Sport? Do you have any idea how it will hold up to three digit temps?
The Dunlop SP Winter Sport 3D Run on Flat held up very well last year when we rode 2up with trailer from Wisconsin-Colorado/New Mexico-Wisconsin. 
Pic taken on Skyline Drive by Florence, Colorado in July of 2011
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Visionary
Posts: 1229
Rancho Cucamonga, CA | Blue Sky Guy - 2012-05-12 7:59 AM
Nozz, would you consider a snow tire for your neck of the woods?
So far only a few days @ over 100 degrees on my wintersport, and I have been quite satisfied. I have found no reason to switch to any other tire. I have already put as many miles on it as my E3 lasted and it barely looks worn. I feel much safer with a run-flat under me. |
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Iron Butt
Posts: 752
Broken Arrow, OK | Dang Thomas, I hope you occasionally went faster than that!!!
You guys running a 175, how does the speedo accuracy work out? My 195 is almost spot on to compared to my gps speed. |
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Visionary
Posts: 3773
Pittsburgh, PA | okie vision - 2012-05-13 8:06 AM
Dang Thomas, I hope you occasionally went faster than that!!!
You guys running a 175, how does the speedo accuracy work out? My 195 is almost spot on to compared to my gps speed.
http://www.miata.net/garage/tirecalc.html |
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Central Wisconsin | okie vision - 2012-05-13 8:06 AM Dang Thomas, I hope you occasionally went faster than that!!! You guys running a 175, how does the speedo accuracy work out? My 195 is almost spot on to compared to my gps speed. Yeah...Skyline drive by Florence, Colorado is a real HOOT! The one way road follows the ridge tops, my wife kept saying "go slower" :-) With the 175/60/16 Dunlop my odometer on the bike is dead on with my odometer on the Garmin Zumo 550 gps. However the speedo on the bike reads 62mph and the gps reads 60 mph...go figure. 
2011 Skyline drive I wouldn't recommend mounting the camera on the dash (got to much vibration) I later mounted it on my helmet.
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Iron Butt
Posts: 752
Broken Arrow, OK | Thanks for the link, Ark. Bookmarked.
Skyline drive looks awesome. Reminds me that there's a ton of places in this great country that I have NOT gotten to ride, lol.
Funny about your wife too. Mine does the exact same thing. She'll bring up every posted speed limit sign on the twisties....."25 ahead, not 55!" |
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Central Wisconsin | okie vision - 2012-05-13 10:35 AM...Funny about your wife too. Mine does the exact same thing. She'll bring up every posted speed limit sign on the twisties....."25 ahead, not 55!" Exactly ... LOL! Lately she been squeezing her knees against my hips when we approach a lower speed sign, as a reminder to slow down :-)
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Tourer
Posts: 395
Moravia, IA | Love that little stretch of road..... 
......from my trip to Colorado and the Grand Canyon.
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Puddle Jumper
Posts: 25
Palm Coast Fl. | I bit the bullet and went darkside Friday. Only a couple of hundred miles so far. I've noticed a few little differences but nothing earthshattering or scary. (Scary is the 6o rake and 240 me880 on the VTX). I'll post more thoughts as I get used to it and after the release oils are worn off. Put on a Dunny 175-50/16 run flat. Time will tell! |
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Iron Butt
Posts: 752
Broken Arrow, OK | Did you typo that? really a "50"? or is it a 60 series?
Dunny a very popular RF. Good choice. Keep us posted. |
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Puddle Jumper
Posts: 25
Palm Coast Fl. | Oops. Typo! It's a 60. |
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Iron Butt
Posts: 623
| Finally was able to roll out on the Michelin Primacy Alpin RF. I enjoy this tire evn more than the Hankook. It doesnt ride like most run flats I have tried. Transitions into and out of corners like a non run flat. very happy |
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Tourer
Posts: 329
scotts valley, California | I am almost ready to buy the Alpin 195/55/r16 87h ZP from Costco for $165.99. Somewhere I heard that motorcycle rims have a bead around the inside of the rim that car tires do not have. Has anyone had a issue with this? |
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Visionary
Posts: 3773
Pittsburgh, PA | Blue Sky Guy - 2012-05-23 4:50 PM
I am almost ready to buy the Alpin 195/55/r16 87h ZP from Costco for $165.99. Somewhere I heard that motorcycle rims have a bead around the inside of the rim that car tires do not have. Has anyone had a issue with this?
honestly... and i mean no disrespect.. but if you are asking a question like than you are not ready to go to the darkside, or you didnt do your homework.. just saying.. |
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Tourer
Posts: 329
scotts valley, California | just saying.... that does not answer my question. |
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Visionary
Posts: 8144
New Bohemia, VA | Arkainzeye - 2012-05-23 7:06 PM Blue Sky Guy - 2012-05-23 4:50 PM I am almost ready to buy the Alpin 195/55/r16 87h ZP from Costco for $165.99. Somewhere I heard that motorcycle rims have a bead around the inside of the rim that car tires do not have. Has anyone had a issue with this? honestly... and i mean no disrespect.. but if you are asking a question like than you are not ready to go to the darkside, or you didnt do your homework.. just saying.. No one ever has ever had a problem with anything with putting a car tire on a motorcycle, ever! The only problem you'll have is putting on a tire too tall or too wide, and not finding the sweet spot for the air pressure. They are easier to mount than a motorcycle tire and once you mount it, ride for about 50,000 miles then check it, it should be time to replace. Buy chrome with the money you save.
Edited by varyder 2012-05-23 6:23 PM
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Tourer
Posts: 329
scotts valley, California | Thank you Varyder, that answers my question in a language I can understand. |
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Visionary
Posts: 1229
Rancho Cucamonga, CA | Blue Sky Guy - 2012-05-23 2:50 PM
I am almost ready to buy the Alpin 195/55/r16 87h ZP from Costco for $165.99. Somewhere I heard that motorcycle rims have a bead around the inside of the rim that car tires do not have. Has anyone had a issue with this?
I heard that somewhere too, hogwash!! I don't blame you for asking, that is what a forum is for. To debunk bad rumors, or start them, I forget.
Motorcycle rims have shorter bead flanges than car rims, A CT will fit a motorcycle rim fine, but a MT will not fit a car rim. |
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Tourer
Posts: 329
scotts valley, California | This thread kind of dried up finally about two years ago. Now the air is showing through the Metzler 880 140/70 R18 I've been running with the Michlin Alpin195/55 R16 rf on the back. I would like to hear opinions about what might be a better tire to run in front. I have no complaints about the Metzler but, if someone has found one they like better, I'd like to her about it. |
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Iron Butt
Posts: 752
Broken Arrow, OK | I'm enjoying the handling from a Avon Cobra, OEM size. I'll have a good idea about longevity later in this coming riding season.
I noticed your oversized front Metzler, your signature says you removed the front fender to accomodate it. So you're running your Vision without a front fender? |
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Iron Butt
Posts: 804
Perry Hall, MD | okie vision - 2014-03-14 8:34 PM
I'm enjoying the handling from a Avon Cobra, OEM size.
+1 |
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Tourer
Posts: 329
scotts valley, California | Yah, no front fender since August of 2012. Strange that you would mention that; I just put it back on today. I didn't like the idea of where all that rain water was going.
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Puddle Jumper
Posts: 14
East Troy, WI United States | I ran the CT on my Valk. It was a wide version. It did ride better on the long trips. Low speeds in town, cracks in the road are really a bad problem though. If I go to the darkside on my VV I will go with a narrow CT. I havent decided yet. I only have 140 mile on my VV. LOL It is winter time in Wisconsin.
Oh I ran 40psi on my valk. |
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Iron Butt
Posts: 825
, WI | I am installing my third Dunlop Winter Sport run flat snow tire. I put the first one on in May of 2012. I have done a few long rides with the Winter Sport. 2012 - Milwaukee to Key West, FL to Prudhoe Bay, AK and back - 11,907 mile, 16 day trip. A two day, 1000 mile ride around Lake Michigan with my wife and a 800 mile round trip to Spirit Lake, IA. 2013 - A one week, 4321 mile trip that included 4 IBA rides with a stop at Mount Evans, Death Valley, Independence Pass and Pikes Peaks. A two week, 4600 mile trip to Nova Scotia with my wife and a one day, 1000+ mile trip around Wisconsin. I like it! 195/55R16 - 38 psi. Rollin' - 2012-05-11 9:15 PM My new snow tire -
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Cruiser
Posts: 244
| I am using the 140x/70-v18 Battleax Rear tire for a yamaha, think it's a VTX. 40 lbs air. Rear is a 185/55-R16 G019 Bridgestone Potenza. 37 lbs. (1 up). Handles like a dream, as good as a crash rocket. Milage is good, lots of rubber left. see miles below. |
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Iron Butt
Posts: 825
, WI | Fender - I installed the Ness kit to raise the fender on my Vision. Raises the fender 1-1/8 inches.
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Tourer
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scotts valley, California | Great idea - I thought about making a pair of these but couldn't make it happen. Does the higher fender interfere with access to the air filter? |
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Iron Butt
Posts: 825
, WI | Blue Sky Guy - 2014-03-16 10:51 AM Great idea - I thought about making a pair of these but couldn't make it happen. Does the higher fender interfere with access to the air filter? I just installed the kit yesterday so I'm not sure but I don't think it would. |
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Iron Butt
Posts: 825
, WI | Fender installed. No clearance issues -
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Cruiser
Posts: 79
Louisville, KY | On my last bike, a kawasaki VN2000, I had ran three car tires. The 200 60 16 bike tires were 250 to 300 dollars each and the longest any went was 5000 miles. The car tire worked well on the vulcan but I'm not sure I will go that route in the vision. The 2000 handled like a cement truck and the car tire was barley noticeable on it.
With the milage I get on the E3s I will probably keep running a bike tire, even though they can be a little slick. If anything I will switch to avon cobras to get a little more grip.
For you guys running the car tires the potenza is a good tire I also had good luck with the goodyear triple assurance. |
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Visionary
Posts: 3773
Pittsburgh, PA | kin52 - 2014-03-16 4:20 PM
On my last bike, a kawasaki VN2000, I had ran three car tires. The 200 60 16 bike tires were 250 to 300 dollars each and the longest any went was 5000 miles. The car tire worked well on the vulcan but I'm not sure I will go that route in the vision. The 2000 handled like a cement truck and the car tire was barley noticeable on it.
With the milage I get on the E3s I will probably keep running a bike tire, even though they can be a little slick. If anything I will switch to avon cobras to get a little more grip.
For you guys running the car tires the potenza is a good tire I also had good luck with the goodyear triple assurance.
i also had a vn2000.. (2005-green) i had a 225 good year assurance triple tread on it. for a while before i went to 18 inch R.C. wheels with a 250mm rear tire. i didnt really have any issue with my 225 rear tire. but that bike in general was nothing but motor.. crude seat, suspension, brakes etc.. nothing on that bike was anything to brag about EXCEPT that (mine is bigger than yours) with the engine size.. i remember how bad that thing was on rear tires.. you were right! 5000 was about the max... and they cupped unlike anything else ive owned.. right now i have a 175 good year fuel max car tire on my 11 vision, next month makes 2 years with the same tire. ( i cant remember the mileage now) i just know in the past i went through NO less than 1 rear tire a year on my 08 vision.. its nice to just have a tire on there and not have to spend the $$$ and time every year over and over again. while its not hard to replace the rear tire on the vision. its not easy either.... |
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Cruiser
Posts: 244
| Rollin you didn't mention how many miles per tire you were getting? On the run flats. |
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Tourer
Posts: 329
scotts valley, California | My Michlin Alpin RF only has 14-15,000 miles on it, bu it looks like it will go 40 or 50k. I"m convinced the Michlin has quite a bit less traction than my old Dunlap E3's, speaking only in an upright position. I haven't had either one slip out in a turn (except on sandy road) so can't comment on the traction on the edges..
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Cruiser
Posts: 166
Bullhead City, AZ | 20 k on the Bridgestone G109 |
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Visionary
Posts: 1229
Rancho Cucamonga, CA | The Dunlop Wintersport Runflat 175/60 lasted me 17k n the hot SoCal roads. I did change it a little early for an upcoming trip. Probably could have gone another 2k before I was into the wear bars. Very sticky rubber.
Edited by Nozzledog 2014-03-29 12:44 AM
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Iron Butt
Posts: 691
Manchester, CT | Does it change aggressive cornering characteristics e.g. tend to slide out in the twisties |
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Iron Butt
Posts: 825
, WI | Double darkside done! 
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Cruiser
Posts: 233
flagstaff, AZ | I need to know about that front tire Rollin'. I like the look and already see benefits for where I can ride |
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Iron Butt
Posts: 825
, WI | roundtwig - 2014-03-29 9:06 AM I need to know about that front tire Rollin'. I like the look and already see benefits for where I can ride It's a Shinko 700 Series 130/80-18. I still need to put a few miles on it to see if it's going to work on the Vision. Hopefully later today. |
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Cruiser
Posts: 255
New Brunswick , Canada | Dunlop Winter Sport run flat 175/60...due to my trailer hitch clearance...8k on it now and its good for at lease another 10k. ( I think)
I will be replacing it with the same tire...love it.. |
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Central Wisconsin | Steve, I like the on/off road Shinko tire, should work out great for your next adventure. This will be my fourth season running double Darkside (CT on the rear and rear MT on the front).
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Cruiser
Posts: 244
| Thomas: What size is it & is it a dual compound rubber? I have the Yamaha v rated rear tire on my front but don't like the dual compound rubber tires. |
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Central Wisconsin | wingit3611 - 2014-03-29 1:59 PM Thomas: What size is it & is it a dual compound rubber? I have the Yamaha v rated rear tire on my front but don't like the dual compound rubber tires. Yes, I have had great results with the Bridgestone Battlax BT45V 140/70-18 tire in the front. The first one lasted 20,000 miles. I did start out with the tire mounted in the reverse direction. 10,000 plus miles later I took the front wheel/tire off and rotated the wheel/tire without taking off the tire. |
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Visionary
Posts: 4278
| over 20 thousand on my ct and still like new |
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Iron Butt
Posts: 825
, WI | Thomas - 2014-03-29 12:42 PM Steve, I like the on/off road Shinko tire, should work out great for your next adventure. This will be my fourth season running double Darkside (CT on the rear and rear MT on the front).
Testing completed! I like it!! Removed the Shinko to save for a planned ride. I have two wheels, one for the street tire (E3) and one dual sport.
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Central Wisconsin | Rollin' - 2014-03-29 8:15 PM Removed the Shinko to save for a planned ride. I have two wheels, one for the street tire (E3) and one dual sport. It would be cool to see the dual sport Shinko at the 20th annual Spring Slimey Crud Run. Planned ride? hmmm ... The Iron Butt Rally? |
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Cruiser
Posts: 54
Bancroft Ontario, Canada | Let me know where you get one in that size....i could not find one anywhere in North America..... |
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Iron Butt
Posts: 825
, WI | Thomas - 2014-03-29 9:30 PM Rollin' - 2014-03-29 8:15 PM Removed the Shinko to save for a planned ride. I have two wheels, one for the street tire (E3) and one dual sport. It would be cool to see the dual sport Shinko at the 20th annual Spring Slimey Crud Run. Planned ride? hmmm ... The Iron Butt Rally? Not the Rally. I've always wanted to create my own IBA ride and I came up with one that is both and off pavement. I like the look!
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Tourer
Posts: 341
West Salem, WI United States | I know the Rear MC tire on the front gives better longevity (more miles) but are there other advantages? Any disadvantages, how is traction affected if at all? |
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Cruiser
Posts: 232
| OK here we go, ran ct on m/c all my life but with this vision 2011 tour. At about 11k put a Dunlop DSST 175/55-R16 run flat and the tire is wore out with only 22k miles on it. On my gl1800 would get about 35-45k on the tire what gives here. ALL the m/c tire guys are full of blue mud when it come to the darkside ride. Also would like to know what you folk are running with a hitchdoctor hitch. Thank You |
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Visionary
Posts: 4278
| what are you running for tire pressure and how often do you check it. Are you using a good tire gage.
Have 20 thousand on mine looks like new I run 40 psi
Trailer guys are running 185/55-16 i believe |
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Cruiser
Posts: 232
| 38 PSI,Check about once a wk. Do you think that I could run a 185 with trailer hitch two up with out problems? |
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Puddle Jumper
Posts: 19
| 38 psi for me . think I'm running a hankook . The darksider hater club is as bad as H.O.G. I went to the darkside because I wanted to ride not spend 400$ and a day every 7000 miles in the shop. Hell I was putting a tire on every 3rd oil change or so and 2 backs to 1 front . 400$ is a lot of gas on a vision. Any way 38psi runs good for me . Dosnt follow the ruts so bad . As soon as you get the change out of your head you'll love it .
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Central Wisconsin | TRELL - 2014-04-04 3:56 PM OK here we go, ran ct on m/c all my life but with this vision 2011 tour. At about 11k put a Dunlop DSST 175/55-R16 run flat and the tire is wore out with only 22k miles on it. On my gl1800 would get about 35-45k on the tire what gives here. ALL the m/c tire guys are full of blue mud when it come to the darkside ride. Also would like to know what you folk are running with a hitchdoctor hitch. Thank You I wore out two Dunlop 175/55-R16 run flats with the hitch doc installed. Yeah ... I didn't get the miles out of the Dunlop CT either (great tire though), still better then riding on a Dunlop E3 MT with a bald center and cupped sides I just mounted a Kumho Ecsta PA31 185/55R-16 it's not run flat. Haven't had a 2up chance to fully test the CT tire out account of Wisconsin weather. 
Edited by Thomas 2014-04-05 8:14 AM
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Iron Butt
Posts: 752
Broken Arrow, OK | Any clearance issues on that 185 Kumho and the hitch doc? I love the Dunlop Wintersport 175 I'm running now and I have a extra waiting its turn but it's good to know others that work w/ our receiver hitches since our 175 Dunnies really are about gone. |
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Central Wisconsin | okie vision - 2014-04-05 4:16 PM Any clearance issues on that 185 Kumho and the hitch doc? No clearance issues so far just haven't had a chance to run the twisties 2up yet. 
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Cruiser
Posts: 54
Bancroft Ontario, Canada | i run a 185/85-16 Hankook @45 PSI with a hitch doc and 2 up pulling a trailer...no problems in 8000 km....dunlops would be worn out.
Look at the weight/tire pressure scales to determine tire pressure for your total weight
VBear |
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Visionary
Posts: 4278
| TRELL - 2014-04-04 7:00 PM 38 PSI,Check about once a wk. Do you think that I could run a 185 with trailer hitch two up with out problems? read here http://www.vision-riders.com/bb/forums/thread-view.asp?tid=14960&posts=12&start=1 |
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