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Cruiser
Posts: 256
Florida | I'm sure, much like you, many times people walk up to you when you're at a stop and inquire about the Vision. What blows me away is how many current bike owners have no idea who Victory is and that it's an American company.
Okay, before I get started, I know that H-D has a 90+ year head start and I've yet to see one guy with a Victory tattoo. (Maybe that's a good thing!). But after ten years, shouldn't people know who Victory is and that they are an American company?
In the big picture, Victory is still a blip on the radar. I don't know about you, but have you run across other riders who have never heard of Victory? Remember, not every rider reads all the bike magazines and those types of ads don't reach many tire-kicking, potential buyers. Branding is important and, you would think that after ten years, the Victory name would be a known entity.
Had it not been for the massive press following of the Vision, I most likely would have never walked into a Victory dealership. Personally, I learned of the Vision by watching CNBC last year and they did some "live shots" from the NY bike show where the Vision was introduced. Coming from the press, getting publicity at the launch of a new product is fairly easy...especially when it's noticeably different from current products. Getting publicity on the same product later is a difficult task. Just think...when was the last time you saw some coverage on the Hammer, the Kingpin or the Vegas outside of the enthusiast websites?
I still feel that the Vision could be Victory's iPod. If you remember back just a few years ago, Apple was dying. Then they introduced the iPod. A single product CAN elevate an entire company. I wonder if the marketing department at Victory has the "smarts" to monopolize on a bike that currently has the "buzz?"
Let's face it, the market for all luxury items is depressed. And yes, a bike like the Vision is considered a luxury as if you just wanted basic two-wheeled transportation, there are numerous lower priced options. It's a tough time to be selling bikes and this is proven by simply walking into an established H-D dealership and seeing all the new inventory on the showroom floor. One H-D dealer salesperson told me that sales were off 30% from last year and the previous year was nothing to brag about. Personally, I'm glad I'm not an H-D dealer in today's market.
Coming from a marketing and branding background, there are opportunities for companies during down markets. While bikes are not flying off the floor today, one marketing strategy states that during down markets, invest in the brand image. This builds up a pent-up demand that people will act on when times get better.
A fact to consider in the bike selling business is the high percentage of people who finance their purchase. In today's finance market, a buyer who qualified for a $20K finance purchase last year, may not qualify today...even though they have the same credit score and pays his/her bills on time. Also note that trade-ins (all brands) are bringing lower prices as the demand there is low as well. As the H-D forums will openly state, they don't like any other brand due to the reduced trade-in value. Personally, this was not a part of my decision to purchase a Victory.
I'm curious to your thoughts on the current market and if Victory is doing a good job getting the word out about their full line of bikes. After all, we ARE customers and our opinion should be important to them.
Here's some food for thought:
Could the Vision be Victory's iPod and elevate the brand?
Should the Vision have been held back and introduced during better economic times?
Will the Vision win over sales from Honda and H-D?
How is the dealer experience in your city compared with competitive brands?
Should Victory be offering a 0% finance option to qualified purchasers?
I'd really enjoy hearing your thoughts and input. | |
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Iron Butt
Posts: 619
Southeast Iowa | 1. Yes it could be to some extent. It will make a buzz but not effect nearly as many people.
2. No, Always best to be 1st to market with a new concept. Slower sales may enable Victory to keep up. Remember they are small and are growing year over year. This year projected 30% growth which is lower than past years.
3. It already has won over Honda and HD buyers. There are several here.
4. Dealer experience is as good or better in my area. Compared the HD MUCH better.
5. 0% is lower than what is needed to get most to pull the trigger. The Vision is high end and most buyers don't need bargin financing to make the choice. | |
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Cruiser
Posts: 103
| Polaris needs to understand that customer service is everything. Vision riders seem to me to be a bit different then your average HD rider. We are going to expect better than what the motorcycle community has been delt in the past. I spoke with Anna Braun, Victory District Sales Manager Florida, about the chrome forks that were missing from my bike and she offered no explanation as to what might be done to fix that small problem. This is not her department but I would have felt better if she at least took some interest in my problem. STRONG CUSTOMER SERVICE will help any business through a difficult period. Today, I rented a Harley just to see for myself what the difference is between their bike and the Vision and I can tell you it is night and day. I felt that I was on a very small,uncomfortable, quivering, little dog. Hope Victory is listening to this thread. | |
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Cruiser
Posts: 82
Northwest of you | I am a "newcomer" to the brand. Two years ago I had never heard of Victory, but, at this point there is no other brand that has any appeal for me, even though I continue to test ride and "check out" the others each model year. There are 6 reasons that I choose Victory over any other bike, one of them being that they are not that well known. Particularly with the "lemmingness" of the HD, I love the fact that people must ask what the brand is. I don't want Victory to become "common". I think the Vision will make it's mark and that it is the bike to have, good times or bad, but I am loving it's unique status so far. | |
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Cruiser
Posts: 256
Florida | That's an interesting point of view, thanks Nowor218. I think we all like being different, but I would like to see increased customer support and brand recognition for no other reason than it insures Victory will be here over the long haul. Although I've outgrown the need to have an H-D, there is comfort knowing they have a strong network of dealerships and that they will be here next year, in two years and for many years to come. | |
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Tourer
Posts: 400
| A few years ago, I heard an interesting business practice Victory was using. After 2000-2001 where Victory built way to many bikes for what their market share was, Victory started to invest heavily in market research. Victory focused on Price vs production vs market share. There was no point in making 20,000 kingpins at $17,000 when you could only sell 10,000. What I took from the conversation was Victory was dedicated to increasing market share each year in small amounts. Steady, solid, repeatable business growth. No boom and bust. It also seemed that Victory was starting to understand resale value could also hurt potential buyers. Mass producing bikes can kill resale values, which may hurt future sales on new bikes.
One thing that suprised me is Dale Earnhardt Jr. and Ryan Newman were sponsered by Polaris, and I didn't see it in NASCAR. Yes, I actually have seem a banner with Dale Jr. wearing Polaris. If you want to see Victory get popular real quick, how about a Vision on the 88 hood at Talladega? | |
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Visionary
Posts: 3006
San Antonio, TX | There are local Credit Unions that would give me a 4.8% to 4.9% rate on a car but Polaris wants to stick me in the eye with 6.99%.
6.99% is an insult not an offer. HD has the same 6.99% rate.
Why should I pay less interest for a car then a bike? I have been able to work with a bank loan officer who dropped me down to their car rate but at 5.6% it stinks as well.
I am going to work on a Credit Union loan officer next.
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Cruiser
Posts: 175
Colorado | I am holding off reading the other responses as I don't want my answers to be influenced....then I will compare
Could the Vision be Victory's iPod and elevate the brand? No the IPOD had a wide demographic appeal. The Vision is limited to older riders who travel or wish to.
Should the Vision have been held back and introduced during better economic times? Hmmm No, that may never come and sales are important now...besides technology is always changing
Will the Vision win over sales from Honda and H-D? Yes already has...will the numbers impact either Honda or HD...emmm no production is to limited today. Lets not flood the market with Visons and kill the model.
How is the dealer experience in your city compared with competitive brands? Depends...compared to Jap bike the same..compared to BMW or Harley...Vastly different as they have boutiques and a more focused dealership on product and ownership experience. If you look at the top selling dealers..how many have Victory in their name? The result is very interesting.
Should Victory be offering a 0% finance option to qualified purchasers? Maybe, depends on who is under writing the loan or its being sold to. If Victory can sell the loan to someone else and assume no or little risk I say go for it! If they retain the risk...heck no we are in hard times and carrying that debt could put the company out of business.
ANDY ..thats my two cents and its fun to be the armchair CEO
Edited by badnvegas 2008-04-14 10:24 PM
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Tourer
Posts: 495
Carrollton, TX | Believe me the leadership team at Victory has an outstanding game plan and they have spent a lot of time in developing it. I think they did the right think in introducing the Vision when they did. The Vision is in some ways like a Mercedes SL500 or other comparable high end luxury cars that aren’t affected much at all if any in a down economy. Many of the people who buy them have the money to do so even in the worst of times. I think it will become very evident over the next few years of just how strong of an influence the Vision will have in the touring and cruising market. I think you will see all the big players try to play catch up in a very noticeable way but Victory will be able to maintain their innovation lead due to their nimbleness as a company. I don’t think this will equate to an iPod equivalent but market leadership will be recognized and rewarded. I think this forum is one of the best examples of how the Vision has won over many owners of other bikes especially Harley riders but also Gold Wingers. My dealer, Rick Fairless Strokers of Dallas is one of the best dealers to work with anywhere selling any brand. They go the extra mile for everyone and their service is first class. I don’t think the interest rate is a big deal for most people. You can get good rates from your bank or credit union though the rates on bikes will almost always be a little higher than a car. According to what I see on this and other forums and dealers many buyers are paying cash for their bikes now. Lastly from what I hear the Vision has been a great success for Victory. I was told Victory only has about 50 Vision’s left for the 2008 model year and they will be sold out and this is after increasing their original production numbers. So if you want a Vision this year you better not snooze any longer. Also they only have black and midnight cherry left as all the grey bikes are gone. Think about it, the only Visions left from now till this October or November are the ones in dealer showrooms and the 50 they had left as of the week before last. I am sure glad I got mine. | |
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Tourer
Posts: 495
Carrollton, TX | One more thing, I have had a lot of people approach me on my Vision to say they have heard and read about the Victory Vision but had not seen one in person yet. The vast majority really like the Vision and most of them had heard very positive things about the Victory brand and their reliability. I have been surprised how many people have heard about Victory here in Texas. | |
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Visionary
Posts: 8144
New Bohemia, VA | PalmBeachRider - 2008-04-14 5:17 PM Here's some food for thought: Could the Vision be Victory's iPod and elevate the brand? I think the brand has already been elevated and they wanted to hit where the demographics are best, old geezers, and young ladies who want to ride solid touring bikes. (I didn't want to offend any of the fairer sex) Remember, the Vision has been in development 6 long years with millions of dollars chanced on more than an iPod phenomenon. Let's not get lost in the forest because of the trees. Should the Vision have been held back and introduced during better economic times? NO ONE CAN PREDICT THE ECONOMIC TIMES. The economy will always be on a teeter, even in the seemingly good times. Most anyone is 60 days away from being homeless. So how could you develop something for 6 years waiting for the perfect timing. Will the Vision win over sales from Honda and H-D? Already has, and there is more to be seen. How is the dealer experience in your city compared with competitive brands? The Victory dealer is very well versed and knows what the clientele is looking for. I've walked into the H-D place and feel like I'm getting sized up for a coffin by the undertaker. The multi-ricer dealer always seemed like the sale is more important that then customer. The Honda place always made me feel second class because I rode a classic Wing, '84 GL1200. Didn't really want to talk much unless it was about getting a new ride. Should Victory be offering a 0% finance option to qualified purchasers? Would be nice. I'd really enjoy hearing your thoughts and input. Final thought: I know Victory does not have a large market share at this time, but they are strong with their customers. I believe there is a loyality because of the product, not because it is NOT HD, or GoldWing, but because they have a great product. That says a whole lot above and beyond "My daddy drove a Ford, my daddy's daddy drove a Ford, so therefore I'll drive a Ford." I have been overly impressed in my dealer in that I visited before I ever even thought about getting a Victory. I went there several times getting motorcycle dodad's and not once did they try to push me into buying a Victory. In fact I was actually pondering getting a newer GoldWing and was heavily entertaining in getting an Indian Chief. I wanted a long hauler and I was able afford that desire. I resent the comments of "ahhh, new toy" though I know where they are coming from when they say it. I ride because I love to ride, and after 2 1/2 years even my wife is convinced this is not a passing fad. I rarely drive my Jeep even on bad weather days. My point is that the decision for me to get my first Victory, a Vision no less, was I had the highest confidence they have a solid product. There are things that do concern me, but really they are the cosmetic issues. I do feel Victory needs to step up to the plate and be more involved with the "dealers" and not treat them like distributors. More personal relations with the customer is greatly needed, but they are learning. I think they are being caught by surprise to some degree. I'll say this, no amount of complaining on this forum or any other forum will help fix these issues. Knocking on their door and standing on their desk will, so the beefs should be piling up at Victory HQ if you were to go by this forum, but I really doubt it. I still haven't wrote my letter to them because the issues I did have were apparently simple ones because most disappeared at the last service. I still have the dimple in the right rear cheek, but I believe they are working on a fix and hopefully I'll get satisfied there. When Honda came out with the GL1800 they had a major problem with that flagship, the frame would literally crack because they piled more on the frame then it could handle. How many of you are even aware of that, or said "There's no way I'll ever buy a GoldWing" because of it. The sad part is that it was not the first time it happened with the frame. Talk about recalls, look out over the history of the Goldwings and see how many recalls each year had and what for. I think Victory is doing very good with the Vision and I will tell everyone that asked that this is the best bike built today. I even get accused of being a sales person for Victory. I've even been asked more and more lately, "Do you even own a car?" Yes, I have three titled in my name, but my Victory is the vehicle of choice. Well, PBR, you pushed my rattle button again, but you axed. | |
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Cruiser
Posts: 297
VA | I agree with practical evaluation that the Vision is not Victory's iPod, just because a cruising bike is not really a new idea. For it to be an iPod, it would have had to run on some new fuel, or be some radical improvement. As it is, it is just a great cruiser. Is it something that takes Victory into a new class...absolutely. What it could really do for Victory is attract new buyers because it is something that LOOKS different than a Harley, and therefore grabs the attention of people that don't even really notice bikes in the first place, and maybe attract some people to motorcycles that weren't already into them. Plus, it doesn't hurt that gas prices are so high, people are looking at different ways to commute to work. Not that the price makes it practical as a cummuter vehicle, but they may be able to justify it a little more because it could also serve that purpose. I have a work vehicle right now, but if I didn't, that bike would be getting some serious mileage quick. But, I'd also be getting some nice heated clothing for the winter.
I think there are people who like choices, and they could certainly win over people from other bike companies. Is it "eating" into their sales, I doubt it. But, as the brand grows, and more dealers pop up, then I think you'll see some serious competition. The people who are buying the Vision's right now should get stock options because in essence they are paving the way for Victory to grow, which will make it more popular and recognizable. But I agree that I like owning something other than what everyone else has.
The dealership experience I have had so far is good. I can't say that it was so outstanding and unexpected that I am going to sing their praises, but I like it more than the Harley experience I had which was that I should be thankful they let me walk into the showroom. I don't know that Victory can make their dealers go aboce and beyond, but if a dealer wants to be successful, than doing the things that no one else does would certainly get them there.
I would love to see 0%, but that's because I didn't have the cash to buy it outright. But when I checked around, the 6.99% was the best that I could find, so it beat the other bansk that I looked at. But I agree, Victory probably doesn't have the capital to sustain that level of debt, so its best for their survival that they don't. And if they go under, then we the Vision owners are royally screwed in getting parts or service.
I think that introducing it now was good, because let's face it, there have been some bugs and some improvements that will surely come later in production. So, getting it out now may help because when things do turn around, and everything is cyclical, then it might be more polished and improved.
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Visionary
Posts: 1324
So Cal | HD may be an established company, but considering the economic climate of recent years, its still no garranty of continued success.
Regardless of bike sales, they maintain top quality in their accessories and appearal.
Victory needs to realize that the people that buy Victory motorcycles are different than the ones that buy ATV's and snowmobiles.
We are a different crowd that expect more from the company.
This is also a computer age, when was the last time the Vision site or the VRA has been updated?
Everything in the Pure Polaris catalog Is either out of stock or a dealer item only, and the dealer cant get them either.
These may be hard economic times, but Vision sales are good, and Polaris is dropping the ball by not addressing the problems customers are having.
Im not saying they should sacrifice profits for customer satisfaction, but they should focus more on addressing customer concerns and profits will follow.
The Vision is a fantastic vehicle, but Victory's treatment after the sale needs improving. Motorcycle riders may be a smaller group as far as consumers go, but they are a passionate bunch. Just pick up a copy of Thunderpress, When there is a worthy cause or a situation that needs addressed, bikers are the ones that give without expecting a retrurn.
These are the kinds of people that Victory is dealing with and they lack the experience to deal with it. A quality product is just a small portion of the big picture. Everyone that I have met connected with Victory has been passionate about the product, which leads me to believe that the problem is at the corporate level.
Willie G and his family ride their product, there is no doubt in my mind that this influences the direction the company takes. But he is also a businessman that wants to keep his co. alive.
I knew Victory was out there but it wasnt until the Vision that I started paying attension. Victory cant follow HDs business model, they dont have the recognition that HD does. Maybe in ATV's but not in street machines. Quality is worthless if no one knows about it. | |
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Tourer
Posts: 562
SC, Bluffton | Spock - 2008-04-14 11:11 PM
One more thing, I have had a lot of people approach me on my Vision to say they have heard and read about the Victory Vision but had not seen one in person yet.
That would be a Ducati for me. I subscribe to 8 motorcycle magazines. If in 5 of these, if they
didn't review & BMW or Ducati, I'd fall off the toilet in disbelief. I couldn't give a rat's b@tt about
a Ducati, or pretty much any other bike that can't carry a passenger comfortably. And the
obsession with BMW is blatant.
I love 2-up Jap cruisers, and I have seen many an article about Victory in those magazines.
The Vics have always been too chromed & pretty for me, but I like the Vision concept. The
wife liked it even more, so we became Victory owners.
So, is there really this Ducati?  | |
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Visionary
Posts: 8144
New Bohemia, VA | Not blasting a BMW, but I work with a guy that says he can't stay on his 1100 more than 40 minutes because it hurts him to ride, yet he wouldn't ride anything else. He gets mad at me when he starts his woes and I say, I'm happy all around, top and BOTTOM no matter how many (s)miles I ride. I have a hard time understanding, anything for that matter, why he won't go for comfort, it's a must if you have a tourer. When I get a chopper, I don't expect that to be comfortable, but a premium bike that isn't, isn't a premium bike IMHO. BTW, he's has numerous type seats on it with basically the same issues. The erogonomics are just bad on the 1100 for him. | |
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Tourer
Posts: 548
Mount Vernon, WA United States | It's very hard to compare the Polaris model to any other bike companies. They are into "success" more than "prestige" and you can't really get much more successful than selling all the widgets you make at a profit. Oh sure, if you advertise more, and give better service you can sell more bikes.... but that means you'd have to make more bikes too, and they seem to be doing just fine as a company with the number they currently make.
In this current economy, unlike other companies, they are NOT laying people off, or "cutting back shifts." At the same time, they aren't "investing" in huge amounts of square footage, and other capital to expand. As demand grows, they grow, almost enough to fill the demand. It just doesn't get much better than that. | |
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Cruiser
Posts: 256
Florida | What can get better is customer service and communication. Imagine that by adding two employees the after-purchase experience would be elevated. When it's time to trade, yes we'll remember the great times we had on the bike, but will we remember the headaches we had as early adopters?
Polaris just announced its 1st Quarter Earnings and they sky-rocketed. So any excuse for not having customer support that is not as good as the bikes they sell just doesn't fly with me. | |
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Visionary
Posts: 8144
New Bohemia, VA | If my guess on dependability and reliability of my "Bentley" is correct, it will be a very long time before I'll trade it for anything else. I guess the frustration level is, are the masses of unsatisfied Vision owners directly contacting Victory to complain by email, mail, or a phone call? I've vented a few times here, to be honest, to see what the response would be from other riders to determine my next course of action. I decided I would write my letter about the many problems I was having, only for them to disappear. But, if there is no announcement soon on the cute little dimple fix on the right cheek of my sexy machine, I'll be writing to Mother Victory and ask what gives? In all reality, my only real "headache" was really just fouled plugs that corrected the stall problem when cleaned. I feel for the folks waiting on chrome, but that doesn't keep you from riding. I have a friend that has a V-Rod thingy from H-D who laid his bike down and it needed a new airbox. On the VRod it is the gas tank looking thing, but his being the brushed aluminum, they can't get past the quality control point on the fix and he's been waiting 3 months now. That is wrong in my opinion, it is a replacement part, not a optional upgrade. Hopefully, after this year Victory will learn how important Customer Support can be for them and get that straight. But until then, I'll merrily tool along in my V-Twin powered, futuristic looking, George Jetson riding, Batman scooter iPod player, with a grin that is as wide as the faring panel. By the way, maybe I'll have that painted to look like a big bug eating grin! Man, I've got to get my rattle button fixed. | |
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Visionary
Posts: 1324
So Cal | I didnt know I was uncomfotable on my HD 'till I road the Vision. | |
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Cruiser
Posts: 297
VA | I called customer service once to ask a question about something, and the woman I spoke to was nice, but pretty much told me to contact the dealer. They were closed, so I couldn't do that. But, I am curious, does anyone know if the reps are Polaris or Victory cust. service reps? I imagine that they are all Polaris, and handle all the calls. I used to work in a technical support center and we were divided among certain products. Being new, I only got calls on certain software, and didn't get the more complicated network issues. I wonder if it wouldn't improve some of the customer service if they had certain reps that dealt more specifically with Victory. Or at least were trained more on the Victory brand. It wasn't a bad call, but she didn't seem like she knew that much about the bike end of things. I imagine that she knew more about the Polaris branded products like snowmobiles and such. Just a thought. | |
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Cruiser
Posts: 82
Northwest of you | The "dimple" issue will be handled as a warranty item and Victory will replace them if you have that problem. It's been decided.............I am not surprised.........Victory will stand behind these bikes. | |
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Visionary
Posts: 8144
New Bohemia, VA | Here's something from Pied Piper, check out the 2008 press release on dealers. http://www.piedpiperpsi.com/press/ | |
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Cruiser
Posts: 173
Prescott Valley, AZ | Talked to Jerry at Prescott Valley M/C yesterday and he's got a couple Grey Premiums at his dealership that as of then are not spoken for. If anyone is in need of a Grey Vision he's got em and is ready to make a deal.
Ride Safe, Ride Often
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Victory Brand...