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Puddle Jumper
Posts: 22
Kokomo, IN | I'll bet anything that Victory hasn't done a damned thing about re-sizing the little teeny saddlebags on the Vision.  | |
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Visionary
Posts: 2300
Georgia, west of Atlanta | I don't think so either. Looks like they hit the mark with the CC tour. Now that thing has storage..................... | |
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Visionary
Posts: 4278
| Very disappointing in Victory design and management people.
There getting to be like harley cheap and why should we change when were doing so so in sales. | |
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Visionary
Posts: 2300
Georgia, west of Atlanta | John, unfortunately all major corporations are like that........ | |
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Iron Butt
Posts: 721
| Hey, I love it!
Two years ago when Victory introduced the Cross Country and Cross Roads they plainly stated that they were aiming at the H-D Street Glide and the H-D Road King, now with the Cross Country Tourer they are quite clearly aiming at the H-D Ultra Classic.
While I love my Vision I also love what Victory has done with the Cross Country Tourer, it has everything the Vision has, including available reverse, except the adjustable windshield (electric or not) but with MUCH more storage. Mount a trailer hitch up to it and you are good to go with your wife/girlfriend on a very long trip!
The only things making the Vision better for touring are slightly better weather protection, the 6 gallon fuel capacity, better lighting up front, and of course the electrically adjustable windshield. The Vision will still handle better than the Cross Country Tourer though for the same reason the H-D Road Glide Ultra handles better than the H-D Ultra Classic, the steering is always lighter with a frame mounted fairing rather than a fork mounted one. | |
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Tourer
Posts: 324
New Orleans, La, | I agree with another poster on another thread that Victory has taken on the task of resurrecting Indian as a major player and that may prove to be a tall order. They streamline the model line, juggled a few prices, and offered a sort of "build your own" option packages. What's wrong with that? The Vision is still a pretty good scooter as conceived and in its' current form and still better than any bagger from "the motor company". I think some of us have gotten so accustomed to Victorys' new bike introductions having that WOW factor in the past that we feel disappointed that it wasn't there as much this year. As far as the XCT Victory is giving the people what the people said they wanted, not everybody on every model, but starting with their most recent bagger models. Some of us need to have a little faith. Also the GW, the Glide baggers, and until this year BMW all had essentially the same models run 10 plus years and their faithful didn't belly ache as much as some here, go figure. | |
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Iron Butt
Posts: 965
New York State | I think reverse is no longer an option on the Vision. The base price is lower as well | |
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Puddle Jumper
Posts: 8
| Travelin Man - 2011-07-27 12:38 PM
While I love my Vision I also love what Victory has done with the Cross Country Tourer, it has everything the Vision has, including available reverse, except the adjustable windshield (electric or not) but with MUCH more storage. Mount a trailer hitch up to it and you are good to go with your wife/girlfriend on a very long trip!
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I'm missing something here, I've been searching for reverse as an option on either the CC tour or the Vision and do not see it being offered. What am I missing? I do say missing, not calling you wrong. I'm guessing its somewhere in there web site adn Im simply missing it. I woldnt think they would stop offering it.
I will get a new Vic once my wing sells. Now that they offer the CCT with ABS I will need to test ride it and the vision again to decide on which. If the CCT had an elec shield I wouldnt have to try both, it would be a done deal. The CCT appears to come with a very high shield and I hate looking through a shield. Hopefully with a shorter shield the buffeting isnt a killer.
Edited by Joseph 2011-07-27 4:52 PM
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Tourer
Posts: 500
| I wish you people would QUIT complaining about the Vision bags...You all checked them out BEFORE you bought the bike...The bike is unique as it is and is one of the best touring/city bikes out there.....If you wanted bigger bags, for whatever reason, you should have bought something else or trade for a Cross Country or something that you can live with...Leave a good thing alone.....JMHO | |
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Visionary
Posts: 4278
| What were we all expecting?
We really didn't think that Vic would change the vision. Come on now you didn't think bigger bags that would change the beauty of the prettiest bike made.
Yes they could have come out with LED's or a compass or even a bigger motor a chrome front end maybe different heated grips.
We all wanted something but nothing. How many of us could have trade ours in for a new one.
So lets take what we would have spent on a new bike a put driving lights on or a chrome front end maybe find a local guy and get some striping done.
Now as for bigger bags how about a trailer or learn how to roll up are t shirt and socks and tell the wife that she doesn't need to bring two swim suites cause were going to a nude beach. Lets be thankful we have a great bike and go burn some rubber.
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Iron Butt
Posts: 721
| Joseph - 2011-07-27 4:38 PM Travelin Man - 2011-07-27 12:38 PM While I love my Vision I also love what Victory has done with the Cross Country Tourer, it has everything the Vision has, including available reverse, except the adjustable windshield (electric or not) but with MUCH more storage. Mount a trailer hitch up to it and you are good to go with your wife/girlfriend on a very long trip! . I'm missing something here, I've been searching for reverse as an option on either the CC tour or the Vision and do not see it being offered. What am I missing? I do say missing, not calling you wrong. I'm guessing its somewhere in there web site adn Im simply missing it. I woldnt think they would stop offering it. I will get a new Vic once my wing sells. Now that they offer the CCT with ABS I will need to test ride it and the vision again to decide on which. If the CCT had an elec shield I wouldnt have to try both, it would be a done deal. The CCT appears to come with a very high shield and I hate looking through a shield. Hopefully with a shorter shield the buffeting isnt a killer. I can see where you had a problem. I've been on the Pure Polaris website and I can't get any of the accessories to come up for any model of Victory so I'm thinking that they must be revamping the site. I did use the search engine typing in "Vision reverse kit" and it gave my 4 choices with the first one being: http://www.purepolaris.com/en-us/Victory/Pages/QuickView.aspx?ItemI...
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Visionary
Posts: 3773
Pittsburgh, PA | it looks like at least on their Specs part on the touring bikes Vision,xc that they are saying the 2012 motors has 97Hp and 113 ftlbs where as before the touring bikes down the tuned down version of the freedom 106.. so i guess they arent doing that for 2012? | |
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Tourer
Posts: 447
Northeastern Penna. | I'm keeping my 08 "steel grey" for now.
I believe that Victory is seeing how sales go, as they have before, to determine the future of the Vision.
Interesting note here : If Victory had made the Vision with a larger volume in it's side bags for 2012,
the XC could not compete with the Vision.
The Vision,last time I tested,had a much better/smoother ride than the XC.
So take your pick on the models. Each one has it's strong points, like all the other manufacturers do.
Boy, these companies got the consumers by the "you know what" ? | |
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Tourer
Posts: 500
| I also got the impression from the spec sheets that all 2012 models have the 97 hp motor, or as Vic calls the Stage 2 motor..My 2011 with just 92hp and the Stage 1 kit is plently ok for little ole me........ | |
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Cruiser
Posts: 102
Parkersburg WV | I know after seeing the Cross bikes you have saddlebag envy......but come on, dont you want style ? If its size your after, maybe a big square can like whats on a lot of the BMW adventure bikes are more for you. As for me I'll keep my stylish Vision just the way it is. Look how long Harley has made the same saddlebags, for decades, I dont think theyre anymore roomy that the vision, plus one of them is smaller than the other due to the shock configuration, and I dont hear the Harley guys complaining.
There are too many choices of motorcycles out there for you to have one your not happy with. Sell it and go buy something else man.
Bob Scott
'09 Vision
'03 Vegas  | |
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Tourer
Posts: 400
| I talked with a dealer that went to the meeting. I mentioned there was a rumor that the Vision would go away. He said that's insane. The XC's are aimed at the h-d crowd. Pure and simple. The Vision is for everyone else, pure and simple. To have the whole pie, you need both bikes. It does sound like the Kingpin will be done. Sad, because as far as styling, it's my favorite bike. If I could afford a second bike, It would be a Kingpin. They have a two year plan for Indian. It sounded like addressing some quality issues and pricing are the main topics. Yes Victory is well aware of a need for an introductory bike in the $7k-8k range. Indian purchase may have delayed it. Yes Victory is aware of the saddlebag complaints and a redesign is probably in the works. | |
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Visionary
Posts: 3773
Pittsburgh, PA | Also isn't the fairing of the Xc handlebar mounted? Vs the visions being frame mounted? | |
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Cruiser
Posts: 173
Prescott Valley, AZ | Plain and simole folks, the Vision is the best touring machine for the price. Just my 2 cents worth. | |
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Cruiser
Posts: 199
Salt Lake City | We(my wife and I) finished a 6 day, 1,800 mi., four state trip in June, and had all the room we needed. Granted, I added a Cycleops luggage rack. Tons of room for us, including rain gear and jackets for cool weather. Awesome trip, and my wife was plenty comfy, both on the bike, and with the amount of items she brought. Plus, we turned heads everywhere we went - probably more about us being a awesome couple than the looks of the Vision......lots of compliments about it being beautiful and looking like it would be a comfortable as a Cadillac! | |
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Visionary
Posts: 4278
| The Vision did not steep forward with any improvement for 2012 well all others did. With out steeping forward you have have gone backwards. Now you have lost the greatness you once had. | |
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Visionary
Posts: 1632
Jasper, MO | Bearcat - 2011-07-31 11:32 AM
Plain and simole folks, the Vision is the best touring machine for the price. Just my 2 cents worth.
My GL1800 riding buddy and I argue this point constantly. He's sold on his Goldwing and I'm sold on my Vision. Fact is, they're both the best of the best. One has some features better than the other, and vice-versa. Overall, they are pretty equal.
We've taken two different 9 day trips since I got the Vision, both times riding two-up. We packed just as much stuff as the couple on the Goldwing did. We all had two changes of outerwear, daily changes of underwear, heated gear and raingear plus some tools and emergency tire repair kits. The Goldwing's saddlebags are easier to pack/unpack than the Vision's, but they don't hold substantially more than the Vision's. The fact that the opening of the Vision's saddlebags are smaller than the actual interior space makes them harder to use, and gives the illusion that they are smaller than they really are. The openings need to be redesigned. The Vision's trunk holds every bit as much as the Goldwing's, maybe even slightly more. The published numbers would indicate otherwise, but practically speaking, we don't see that much difference between the carrying capacity of the GL1800 and the Vision.
If you need more luggage space than the Vision or Goldwing offers, then you need a trailer.
Ronnie
Edited by rdbudd 2011-07-31 7:04 PM
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Visionary
Posts: 1632
Jasper, MO | john frey - 2011-07-31 1:49 PM
The Vision did not steep forward with any improvement for 2012 well all others did. With out steeping forward you have have gone backwards. Now you have lost the greatness you once had.
Have you seen the "new" 2012 Goldwing? New clothes on the 12 year old design. It was a pretty good design to start with in 2001, but there are new contenders now, eh?
Ronnie | |
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Puddle Jumper
Posts: 10
Niagara Region, Ontario, Canada | john frey - 2011-07-31 2:49 PM
The Vision did not steep forward with any improvement for 2012 well all others did.
They had to let the others TRY to catch up
rdbudd - 2011-07-31 7:56 PM
Bearcat - 2011-07-31 11:32 AM
Plain and simole folks, the Vision is the best touring machine for the price. Just my 2 cents worth.
My GL1800 riding buddy and I argue this point constantly. He's sold on his Goldwing and I'm sold on my Vision. Fact is, they're both the best of the best. One has some features better than the other, and vice-versa. Overall, they are pretty equal.
The Wing has a bit of a power edge on the Vision.
We have a bit of family history on this subject because my wife had a 2004 GL1800A that she replaced with a "year end deal" 2009 Vision Tour in time for the entire 2010 season.
She is an excellent rider and tours with a women's touring club, they travel throughout North America. She has owned quite a few bikes and test ridden many more.
She has never looked back and says that the Vision Tour is her favourite.
She is 50+ with knee problems and 5 ft - 6 in.
She finds the Vision very easy to get off the side stand, the Wing was a serious effort.
She finds the Vision is narrower where you sit than the Wing, helping her to flat foot it.
She finds she can make changes in her riding position easily on the Vision on the road to stay comfortable, while the Wing with its foot pegs and other geometry restricts you to a limited seating position.
This is subjective but the Vision is more comfortable for her
I got some seat time on her GL1800A, too; I would not trade my 2010 Vision 8 Ball for a Wing, either, based on comfort.
The advantage of the slight power edge on the Wing is not enough to entice me. I had power in my last bike, an FJR1300, even though it was an older 2003 model, it would still run with the new ones. I found for me, speed isn't everything. The Vision delivers enough real world speed for what I want and offers the best comfort level I have found for me.
Visions are the reason we have two Victory's in the garage, if there were no Visions, there would most likely be some other brand there.
Edited by Glen B 2011-07-31 7:28 PM
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Visionary
Posts: 1632
Jasper, MO | Glen B - 2011-07-31 7:26 PM
The Wing has a bit of a power edge on the Vision.
True enough, as far as a drag race goes. The Goldwing is geared a little lower than the Vision in the first couple of gears and redlines 1000RPM higher. You'll find though that 5th gear passing power at 55-60 mph of the Vision and the Goldwing are pretty much equal. If you ever decide you want a little more power in your Visions, Lloydz has a kit that will give you an easy 110 to 115 horsepower at the rear wheel. As you know, the GL1800 has about 95 to 100 horsepower at the rear wheel. The stock Vision has around 85 to 90. Both bikes (stock) have around 100 to 105 pounds torque at the rear wheel, which is why the 5th gear passing performance is so close.
The stock ECU and cams of the Vision seems to "throttle back" the power as one approaches redline. Power starts falling off after about 4500RPM. There is an easy fix.
Lloydz VM1 cams, intake plate, and fuel controller are all you need to get 110-115HP and 110-115TQ at the rear wheel, retaining the quiet stock exhaust. If you also get his reprogrammed ECU, which has a better timing curve and eliminates the artificial 120MPH speed limiter, as well as raising the rev-limiter to 6400RPM, you'll get even more and there isn't a stock Goldwing in the country that will be able to keep up. Other than removing the cam covers to change the cams, you do not go into the motor at all. An expert mechanic can do the whole job in 2 or 3 hours. Fuel mileage and reliability are not affected. It's a very popular upgrade with the Vision crowd.
There are those who really like to pick on Harleys and Goldwings, who have gone to big-bore kits with the other items mentioned, and are getting 135 horsepower at the rear wheel of their Visions. They are running in the 11's on the dragstrip with a Vision. There is a lot of potential in these 106 motors.
http://www.lloydz.com/dyno.asp
http://www.lloydz.com/dyno.asp
http://www.lloydz.com/
I agree with all your other assessments of Goldwing vs Vision. I'm 60 years old with a 28 inch inseam and a severe injury to my right foot. The Vision is why I'm still on a full-dress touring bike instead of a trike or a smaller bike.
Ronnie
Edited by rdbudd 2011-07-31 8:25 PM
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Puddle Jumper
Posts: 10
Niagara Region, Ontario, Canada | rdbudd - 2011-07-31 8:57 PM
Glen B - 2011-07-31 7:26 PM
The Wing has a bit of a power edge on the Vision.
True enough, as far as a drag race goes.
Yeah, that's why I used the term "real world"power, only you went into better technical explanation that I did.
So far, I have been very pleased with mine, especially once I got through the break in process and got a little more "seat time"in on it.
The handling is superb and it doesn't feel like an 800 pound bike (8 Ball weight)
I am 59 an I can ride the Vision all day without aches and pains, or at least no new aches and pains that I didn't start the day with before riding.
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Visionary
Posts: 3773
Pittsburgh, PA | john frey - 2011-07-31 1:49 PM
The Vision did not steep forward with any improvement for 2012 well all others did. With out steeping forward you have have gone backwards. Now you have lost the greatness you once had.
The 2012 Vision got the stage 2 cam setup to boost performance from 92hp and 109ftlbs TO 97hp & 113ftlbs | |
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Visionary
Posts: 3773
Pittsburgh, PA | my buddy 2010 wing has center stage and reverse as standard features it also has keyless entry for all lockable storage. if you walk away from the bike it locks the trunk and bags, when you walk back up to the bike (with in 30feet) the locks UNlock themselves. NO need to unlock and lock the storage. and his level of GW is mid, not the highest leave. oh it ALSO came standard with a tire pressure monitor system. lots of neat features. id love to see what their highest level comes with! | |
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Visionary
Posts: 1632
Jasper, MO | Glen B - 2011-07-31 8:29 PM
The handling is superb and it doesn't feel like an 800 pound bike (8 Ball weight)
I am 59 an I can ride the Vision all day without aches and pains, or at least no new aches and pains that I didn't start the day with before riding.
And there you have the major differences between a Goldwing and a Vision.
My buddy, who still thinks the Goldwing is the superior touring bike of the two, ALWAYS wants to stop for a break before I do, and he is younger and in much better physical condition than me. Every time we've swapped bikes, I start to hurt on the Goldwing after an hour or so. Privately, he has admitted to me that the Vision is more comfortable than his Goldwing, but whenever anyone else is around, the Goldwing is the only way to go, according to him.
Oh well, I just smile, knowing that I can make him suffer on a long ride.
I'm also a previous Goldwing owner, although not a GL1800. I have ridden GL1800's several times, and miles. Some of my friends also have FJR1300's, and I've ridden them too. We all swap bikes sometimes. When I was looking for a new bike, the GL1800 was at the top of my short list, until I rode the Vision.
Both of us are former dragracers (bikes) and sport bike riders. The old rivalries are still there, even at our advanced ages. When he started spouting off everywhere how his Goldwing could beat my Vision in a dragrace (should anybody be surprised, given the fact that the Goldwing has 101 more CC's displacement, three times as many cylinders, and 4 more valves, and is geared lower), I decided it was time to shut him up. He still has 101 more CC's displacement, three times as many cylinders, and 4 more valves, but his Goldwing can't keep up with my Vision anymore. In a standing start dragrace, it's close (remember the lower gearing of the Goldwing. It gives the same effect as changing the rear gears on a car from say, 3.55's to 4.10's; you get quicker acceleration from the same horsepower, but turn more RPM at cruise). In any kind of a roll-on contest, I just pull away from him. Since I added the reprogrammed ECU (eliminating the artificial speed limiter that the Vision comes from the factory with) he can't keep up on the top end either. He is a diehard Honda man though (Suzuki for the sport bikes, as am I). Doubtful if he'll ever change.
I just smile whenever he's blowing and going, knowing that he knows the truth.
After you get used to your Vision for a while, swap bikes with someone who has a GL1800 and see if that Honda doesn't feel downright "buzzy" and cramped up. You'll be constantly looking for the non-existent 6th gear and somewhere else to put your feet, other than wherever they happen to be at the time. You will be SO glad you chose the Vision. My buddy is always wanting to swap bikes occasionally on our longer rides. I'm not much in favor of that idea any more.
Ronnie
Edited by rdbudd 2011-07-31 10:00 PM
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2012 Victory Bikes