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Iron Butt
Posts: 639
Tri Cities, WA | Motorcycle kinship what happen?
As I'm riding into work today (100 miles round trip) I usually pass other motorcyclist and like I have done thousands of times I give the usual biker friendly kinship wave, two fingers down or whatever I can do at the time. Out of the dozen or so I passed only 2 even waved back or even looked my direction while the others just passed by like I wasnt even there. I'm a 46 year old male and have been riding most of my life and what I seem to notice is trend that seems to have started about 2 or 3 years ago were other bikers just dont care or want to even recognize their fellow biker brothers or sisters anymore when passing each other on the road. Is it just me? Is this only happening in WA State where I live? I just dont know and it really got me thinking about this subject today.
I don?t know but it appears to me that this once brotherhood we all had seems to be dying out slowly. Its kind a sad because I always felt this special thing with us bikers that when passing each other and throwing up hand to say ?Hey fellow biker good to see ya? was just our own and only we as bikers understood it unlike cagers. It?s sort of like how truckers seem to watch out for each other because there truckers and for no other reason.
I asked my wife who rides her own bike this question a few weeks back is just me or does it seem like less riders are doing this and she also agreed that she also has noticed less riders waving to each other. Now I will say that when at rallys most folks tend to open up and wave, peace sign or whatever when passing but once the rally is over back to the same old attitude for a lack of a better term. I will admit that I do tease my wife that when I pass a group of HD riders on my victory they seem more likely to not wave at me because Im leading but as soon as they see my wife riding her 09 HD street glide behind me they wave to her. She says its all in my head but sometimes even though I'm kidding there is small part of my brain that wonders if it's true. (Side note she is selling her HD and buying the new 2012 Vic XC tour this month)
I really hope that this is just a passing trend because I will always wave, peace sign as I pass my fellow biker brothers and sisters on the road regardless if they do it back or not. I know this subject will get different reactions from all you good folks but it's just something that has caught my attention and I thought I would just post my thoughts and see what you all think and or have experienced. Do you all notice this as well or even care?
Take Care and ride safe.
Chuck
Edited by VisionNWRider 2011-09-07 9:10 PM
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Visionary
Posts: 1359
New Bohemia, Va | ahh yes, the wave. keep in mind the newer riders need to be taught. Some may never way as they don't care to participate in such a ritual. don't dispair, keep waving. Congrats on the wife moving to a Vic. |
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Iron Butt
Posts: 1117
Northeast Ohio | Chuck, I really noticed this on the Vision when I first got it in 2008. When I had my Kingpin (up to 2008), the rider acknowledgment happened all the time. I mean the day after getting the Vision, this reduced to 25% of the time. I have noticed the most that won't acknowledge are the HD riders. Wingers almost always wave, BMW tourers are too worried about safety to lift a hand off the handlebars or are too stiff with 14 layers of clothing on. 
Here is my therapy, don't wave until they wave first. I know this will feel awkward at first as you want to, but let's face it, we are better than them. ;-)
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Iron Butt
Posts: 880
Orlando, FL | I always wave. Well, almost always. And I have been riding for 40 years, and have noticed that with the parabolic increase in riders, fewer and fewer seem to wave. When I was a teen there was a kinship among riders, and the only thing that mattered was that you were on 2 wheels. If you were stopped on the side of the road, the first bike to come along stopped and made sure you were ok. If you needed help, it was offered~! But as our tribe grows, so do all the negative aspects. Some only wave at riders on the same brand, or class (cruiser or crotch rocket). Some are too snob-ish to wave at all. And some are just afraid to let go of the handlebar long enough to wave!! I say wave to everyone unless you're at bike week! |
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Iron Butt
Posts: 880
Orlando, FL | It's posted elsewhere but just to review...........Top Ten Reasons Why Riders Don't Wave Back
Top Ten Reasons Why Harley Riders Don't Wave Back
10. Afraid it will invalidate warranty.
9. Leather and studs make it too heavy to raise arm.
8. Refuse to wave to anyone whose bike is already paid for.
7. Afraid to let go of handlebars because they might vibrate off.
6. Rushing wind would blow scabs off the new tattoos.
5. Angry because just took out second mortgage to pay luxury tax on new Harley.
4. Just discovered the fine print in owner's manual and realized H-D is partially owned by Honda.
3. Can't tell if other riders are waving or just reaching to cover their ears like everyone else.
2. Remembers the last time a Harley rider waved back, he impaled his hand on spiked helmet.
1. They're too tired from spending hours polishing all that chrome to lift their arms.
Top Ten Reasons Why Gold Wing Riders Don't Wave Back
10. Wasn't sure whether other rider was waving or making an obscene gesture.
9. Afraid might get frostbite if hand is removed from heated grip.
8. Has arthritis and the past 400 miles have made it difficult to raise arm.
7. Reflection from etched windshield momentarily blinded him.
6. The espresso machine just finished.
5. Was actually asleep when other rider waved.
4. Was in a three-way conference call with stockbroker and accessories dealer.
3. Was distracted by odd shaped blip on radar screen.
2. Was simultaneously adjusting the air suspension, seat height,
programmable CD player, seat temperature and satellite navigation system.
1. Couldn't find the "auto wave back" button on dashboard.
Top 10 Reasons Sportbikers Don't Wave:
10. They have not been riding long enough to know they're supposed to.
9. They're going too fast to have time enough to register the movement and respond.
8. You weren't wearing bright enough gear.
7. If they stick their arm out going that fast they'll rip it out of the socket.
6. They're too occupied with trying to get rid of their chicken strips.
5. They look way too cool with both hands on the bars or they don't want to unbalance themselves while standing on the tank.
4. Their skin tight-kevlar-ballistic-nylon-kangaroo-leather suits prevent any position other than fetal.
3. Raising an arm allows bugs into the armholes of their tank tops.
2. It's too hard to do one-handed stoppies.
1. They were too busy slipping their flip-flop back on.
Top Ten Reasons Why BMW Riders Don't Wave Back
10. New Aerostich suit too stiff to raise arm.
9. Removing a hand from the bars is considered "bad form."
8. Your bike isn't weird enough looking to justify acknowledgement.
7. Too sore from an 800-mile day on a stock "comfort" seat.
6. Too busy programming the GPS, monitoring radar, listening to ipod, XM, or talking on the cell phone.
5. He's an Iron Butt rider and you're not!.
4. Wires from Gerbings is too short.
3. You're not riding the "right kind" of BMW.
2. You haven't been properly introduced.
1. Afraid it will be misinterpreted as a friendly gesture.
Top Ten reasons Metric Cruiser Riders don't wave back
10. New leather jacket was purchased at the same size as suit jacket.
9. Didn't know that the bike wouldn't fly off the road if left hand was removed.
8. Was looking at the handle bars wondering what accessory could mount where.
7. Was wildly grasping at some valve under seat. (3.7 gals BAH!)
6. Rider was actually pulling up black socks and pulling down on jeans trying to close a few air gaps.
5. Rider was too caught up in reciting his mantra 'Left hand clutch' 'Right hand Gas AND Front brake' 'Left foot Gears' 'Right foot Rear brake' 'And for Gods sake Both feet down at light'.
4. Waved after you went by. You just thought they didn't wave.
3. Was searching GPS to find local Bike wash.
2. Rider wasn't really waving, was doing wind airfoil test with hand and arm.
1. Rider was involved in trying to get new throttle stop to STOP.
And finally........
The Top Ten Reasons Vision Riders don't wave back
10 - They were too busy programming the iPod playlist.
9 - Last time they stuck their hand in the windstream it tore a rotator cuff.
8 - They were too busy tweaking the power windshield.
7 - They were reaching back to turn off the heated seat.
6 - They were programming the GPS route to "Most Scenic".
4 - They were staring at the rain shower ahead and thinking "Should I put on my rain gear" Nah! Why bother!
3 - They were daydreaming about life compared to their previous ride.
2 - That wasn't a wave. They were answering the Bluetooth.
1 - They did wave. You were just too busy staring at the Vision!!!
Edited by MaddMAx2u 2011-09-07 9:49 PM
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Tourer
Posts: 494
Akron Ohio area | I will not wave at anyone coming the opposite way on a freeway.
I don't pay attention to what's going on across the median, I have enough to keep track of on my side of the road.
I will wave at other bikers when the temperature is cold, snowing, raining or obviously on a trip.
I will wave if riding with others who are waving because I'm part of a group and don't want to upset them.
When riding by myself, I normally won't wave first, but will wave back if time allows.
When I was 16 and first started riding street legal motorcycles we (non Harley owners) always waved at each other, maybe 2 or 3 times a day.
If I was to have waved at every other motorcycle on my last trip I would have needed an arm transplant when I got home. |
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Cruiser
Posts: 81
Salinas, Ca. | I too have noticed a decrease in the wave. I dont care though. I wave at anything remotely resembling a bike. If they wave back, excellent! If not, then whatever.... |
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Visionary
Posts: 2118
Pitt Meadows, BC Canada | bigfoot - 2011-09-07 7:55 PM I will not wave at anyone coming the opposite way on a freeway. I don't pay attention to what's going on across the median, I have enough to keep track of on my side of the road. I will wave at other bikers when the temperature is cold, snowing, raining or obviously on a trip. I will wave if riding with others who are waving because I'm part of a group and don't want to upset them. When riding by myself, I normally won't wave first, but will wave back if time allows. When I was 16 and first started riding street legal motorcycles we (non Harley owners) always waved at each other, maybe 2 or 3 times a day. If I was to have waved at every other motorcycle on my last trip I would have needed an arm transplant when I got home. Yeah! Me too. Sidenote: MOST bikers in Canada do not wave (much) any more. This change is very noticeable to me because I ride a lot in the U.S. - and it seems 'strange' because everyone waves (or seems that way cuz we don't see it much in Canada). Canucks who do wave, have become 'bike type' conscious. Harleys wave at other Harleys, sportbikes to other sportbikes, tourers to tourers, scooters to scooters. SAD.... |
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Visionary
Posts: 2118
Pitt Meadows, BC Canada | CHUCK - you're from Washington - maybe the riders you see who don't wave are Canucks like me - who are bringing their rudeness to the U.S. I bet 1/3 or more riders you see are from B.C.
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Iron Butt
Posts: 785
Mt. Vernon, WASH. | New riders don't comprehend other, traditional hand siginals either, like patting the top of your head for 'Cop ahead, cool it' wagging your hand down, 'slow down'
Wagging your hand up and down followed by a sweeping motion 'Hey dummy, slow down and get off at the next exit or corner, the road is blocked' The old truckers 'clean and green' index finger out and making a circular motion. You can just picture those bouncing off the new riders brain 'HUH!?!'
It's the same with 'sporty car ' drivers, in the MG and TR and Austin Healey days you waved @ the other MG driver, now about the only thing that sort of looks like a traditional sports car is that dumb womans boulevard roadster the MX-5 from Mazda.
I never bother with Bring Money Withya riders, they all seem to think they are in the Paris-Dacar or are dressed like Austrian cops.
It is odd tho, early every season everyone waves @ everyone else I guess until your 'bros' threaten to smack you around for waving at something other than a Milwaukee Middle Buster.
Had to laugh, during the U.S. National drags this past weekend one of the Suzuki P/SM riders in a top end interview refered to another bike he'd raced against (H-D) as a tractor. |
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Cruiser
Posts: 166
Bullhead City, AZ | Took one of the girls from work on a ride and when we stopped she asked why do you wave to other bikes with your are down low. Answered that I like my arm attached to my body at the end of the day. We get out on the hjghway going 80 and she flips her arm up like I was filling her full of BS. Good thing she had a backrest, almost lost her! |
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Visionary
Posts: 2118
Pitt Meadows, BC Canada | OH YEAH ! My favorite wave is when I'm on 'cruise control' - I wave with my 'throttle hand' - just cuz I can !
Recently - I passed a pack of about 40 Hell's Angels while on the freeway at about 85mph on cruise - waved at them all as I went by - with throttle hand!
It just somehow feels good ! |
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Cruiser
Posts: 76
| I wave at everyone. If they don't wave back...who gives a dang. Although I do feel insulted when someone usually on a bad axx HD looks down his nose at me as we pass. |
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Iron Butt
Posts: 1109
| RonBou - 2011-09-08 5:50 AM
I wave at everyone. If they don't wave back...who gives a dang. Although I do feel insulted when someone usually on a bad axx HD looks down his nose at me as we pass.
This, and I own a Harley too lol. |
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Tourer
Posts: 575
Spirit Lake IA "Birthplace of Victory Motorcycles" | My wife asked me the other day about the origins of the "wave". I told her that it went back to the old west when cowboys would ride their horses into town. Usually they would hold their rifles in their left hand and point the barrel down in a friendly gesture to say "I'm one of the Good Guys". Now that we ride steel horses, the tradition continues. She actually believed that story and is now very leery of anyone who doesn't wave. |
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Cruiser
Posts: 244
Tucson , AZ | I feel every rider should wave... its not a type of bike thing? Its a bike thing. Just alot of newbys that do not understand. It will come back if you do not break tradition... keep on waving. |
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Cruiser
Posts: 199
Salt Lake City | I usually wave; if they wave back, cool. It does seem that fewer wave back these days-the way of the world, I guess. I was riding in the early morning hours to work this morning and saw a parked bike with a rider waving frantically on the opposite side of the road. I turned around, pulled up next to him, and put on the emergency flashers. Dude had run out of gas and said a bunch of people(including several bikes) passed right by him. I gave him a ride to his house(15 min.) to get his girlfriend. He was appreciative. I have had other bikers stop for me, and feel that this is what we in the bike community should just do for each other. Funny, the guy loved the bike, the tunes and the smooth power! |
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Tourer
Posts: 500
| I too have noticed less rider waves these days....especially since I got the Vision. Harley riders are so stuck on themselves they only wave at other HD,s most of the time.. I could care less and will continue to acknowledge other riders in safe conditions and in circumstances that dictate a wave.....After 50 plus years of riding I wonder why the attitude change???To many people stuck on themselves or just don't care?? Oh well......... |
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Iron Butt
Posts: 752
Broken Arrow, OK | Do you catch yourselves waving to a bike while you're in your cage? lol
Past weekend, on a popular stretch of Route 66 for bikes, wife and I noticed several cagers that would lift the hand and wave at us. Bikers trapped in the cage,,,sigh. |
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Visionary
Posts: 4278
| Its the end of riding for most so why wave any more. Its the rider on the back that waves and she waves at every body.
I make it a point to wave at Vic riders and not so much others.
Its great giving the old peace sing knowing they think it stands for Victory |
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Iron Butt
Posts: 785
Mt. Vernon, WASH. | My cage is a WRANGLER so I follow tradition and wave @ other WRANGLER drivers. If I see a rider pulled over on the side of the road, if it's safe I'll slow and pull up and ask 'rider, are you OK?'. I've given more than one stranded rider a lift to the gas station, it used to be an accepted fact you checked on other riders because we are so vulnerable sitting on the side of the road.
DONETRACY- do your sport bike riders drive as fast and crazy in C eh N eh D eh as their cage brothers do on Washington Freeways? Traffic is going 63 MPH and here comes some idiot with B.C. plates in and out of traffic going over 80 MPH and the State Patrol seems to be afraid to stop them 'cause I never see one talking with Smokey, and I won't get into Vindaloo Canadian semi drivers who think it's just fine that all you can see in your mirror is the bottom third of a FREIGHTLINER grill @ 75 MPH (posted 60 for trucks) I used to carry a railroad spike with me and more than once held it up so Padmi Golliwalli could see it and balance off the cost of the spike vs. the cost of the radiator in his semi.
Edited by SYNSTR 2011-09-08 10:40 AM
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Visionary
Posts: 2118
Pitt Meadows, BC Canada | SYNSTR - 2011-09-08 8:38 AM DONETRACY- do your sport bike riders drive as fast and crazy in C eh N eh D eh as their cage brothers do on Washington Freeways? Traffic is going 63 MPH and here comes some idiot with B.C. plates in and out of traffic going over 80 MPH and the State Patrol seems to be afraid to stop them 'cause I never see one talking with Smokey, and I won't get into Vindaloo Canadian semi drivers who think it's just fine that all you can see in your mirror is the bottom third of a FREIGHTLINER grill @ 75 MPH (posted 60 for trucks) I used to carry a railroad spike with me and more than once held it up so Padmi Golliwalli could see it and balance off the cost of the spike vs. the cost of the radiator in his semi. Yeah - that's BC riders. Cops are cracking down on bikes - letting cars go - even if they are going faster! But I got my FIRST speeding ticket on the bike last month while riding in Washington - approaching Anacortes - by a biker asshole cop. Just a $$$ rip-off for that Indian community. I told him "Great Stuff! Now you can go home and tell your wife that today you gave the first ticket to a biker he had got in 52 years. Am I good or what?" 65 in a 55 zone - not another car in sight. Whoopee. |
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Cruiser
Posts: 133
, AR United States | I wave unless I feel I need to keep both hands on the bars. Then I might give a quick nod. If I am checking out the traffic ahead I might wave and not even look to see if they wave back. Most of my riding is on a highway. I don't care what they are riding, and I usually don't know what they are riding until it is too late to decide to wave. If I wait for them to wave first, then I won't have time to wave back. Doesn't matter much if they don't wave back to me, they may be concentrating on something else (curve, shifting, weaving car) like I sometimes do. If they don't wave cause they don't like my bike, fine, no skin off my nose. Maybe they waved late and I missed it, or are intimidated by the Vision, or the voices in their head said not to. Most wave and I don't worry about the rest. |
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Iron Butt
Posts: 785
Mt. Vernon, WASH. | I agree the Tribal Police are operating under a different set of rules because they are a separate nation within the U.S. They recently got official blessings to pursue you off rez land to make a stop here in Washington for an infraction. Let me guess, Lummi cop? |
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Visionary
Posts: 2118
Pitt Meadows, BC Canada | SYNSTR - 2011-09-08 10:11 AM I agree the Tribal Police are operating under a different set of rules because they are a separate nation within the U.S. They recently got official blessings to pursue you off rez land to make a stop here in Washington for an infraction. Let me guess, Lummi cop? Heading towards Anacortes, comming down the overpass just before rte 20 splits - north to Anacortes -south to Oak Harbor. I was the only vehicle on the overpass and I saw him as I came over the top - he was stopped at the bottom about 1/2 mile away. I slowed under 100kmh (60mph) right away. Paid check to some reserve - not sure if Lummi. And I 'waved' at him as I drove by at 55; he turned on his lights and came after me..... |
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Tourer
Posts: 500
| There is a grea story about this issue on the VMC web-site under Victory Tales...It was submitted by guy named Danno...Good read........ |
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Tourer
Posts: 500
| There is a great story about this issue on the VMC web-site under Victory Tales...It was submitted by a guy named Danno...Good read........
Edited by opas ride 2011-09-08 12:54 PM
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Visionary
Posts: 3006
San Antonio, TX | I wave.....because that what the voices in my head tell me to do.
Ride Sane. |
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Iron Butt
Posts: 785
Mt. Vernon, WASH. | If I see a motor cop going the other way, I like to pat the top of my helmet (cool it, cop ahead) and keep on truckin' |
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Puddle Jumper
Posts: 6
| I always wave if its safe to do so, to all bikes, trikes, mopeds etc. This is not just an US, CAN problem, I've ride all over the world and over the last couple of years have noticed the lack of waving to be global. In the UK cops don't tend to wave, but might acknowledge a nod, in France they wave and nod, in Spain and Portugal they both wave and nod and on occasions pull wheelies, in Morroco they get upset if you don't wave and chase you down to ride alongside and then wave. Riding a bike has become another one of those "status" symbols, I saw an excellent patch the other day that said "15 miles and $15,000 don't make a biker" It made me smile, there are a lot of riders out there today that only ride for the "image" and not for the love of biking.
Stay safe
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Tourer
Posts: 457
Green Bay, WI United States | I wave to all bikes. I don't care about make or type. We should all know we are Brothers and Sisters of the wind no matter what we ride. One other thing I just started, I give the Victory sign to all Military Convoys, I just love the smiles this creates with them. As some of you know my son is training to be an Army Helecopter Piliot Not all respond but that is there loss to a very common jesture showing Brotherly and Sisterly Love, at least that was my understanding.
Ride hard, ride fast but ride safe and free....
8-ball/Wildman |
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Tourer
Posts: 423
northwest florida | if it is safe I give the wave! |
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Visionary
Posts: 8144
New Bohemia, VA | There's a lot more going on than folks not waving. Consider though the many reason why someone doesn't wave, perhaps concentration on the road, or other things. Wave as you feel you're able. |
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Cruiser
Posts: 162
Northern NJ | I always wave.
Riding in the south is great. Most of those folks always wave - including across a divided interstate! |
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Puddle Jumper
Posts: 23
WI | I always try to wave but have noticed a lot less waves back since I got the Vision |
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Visionary
Posts: 3773
Pittsburgh, PA | I wonder if there is a surge of newbie riders who don't understand the wave? |
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Visionary
Posts: 8144
New Bohemia, VA | Arkainzeye - 2011-09-16 1:17 PM
I wonder if there is a surge of newbie riders who don't understand the wave?
No, just more people who doesn't care about the biker heritage. They have a play toy for a little while then they'll move on back to their cages. Teach them when you can, but don't worry about it, just Ride Hard, Ride Long, and Ride Safe. |
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Cruiser
Posts: 188
Tifton, GA | I wave almost all the time. Sometimes clutch and throttle have me busy, or whindshield, sound controls, GPS, blinkers. On the interstate sometimes I can't see for the divider. I think that back in the 70s we did the raised fist "right on" or am I just dreaming? |
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Cruiser
Posts: 126
Meadow, Texas | I remember the "fist" back in the 70's also. Wow, have we been riding for awhile or what? |
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Motorcycle wave, What happen???