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Cruiser
Posts: 156
Bluff Park, Alabama - God's Country! 2011 PW VV | I was told by a wrench at a dealer that once you go synthetic, you cannot go back to anything else. True - false? Discuss. THANKS CHUCK
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Visionary
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New Bohemia, VA | yeah, he's right. It's hard to go back to a shorter life span of dino, or semi-dino, notchy shifting and noisey engine on my Vision. |
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Iron Butt
Posts: 1109
| varyder - 2011-09-10 3:53 AM yeah, he's right. It's hard to go back to a shorter life span of dino, or semi-dino, notchy shifting and noisey engine on my Vision. Lol. This. |
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Cruiser
Posts: 228
| Wait a minute.......OK, I have the popcorn popped, a glass of iced tea, sitting in my favorite chair with my laptop........let the oil threading begin!!!!
Seriously, you can change back at any time with no ill effects except the ones that varyder mentioned. |
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Visionary
Posts: 1632
Jasper, MO | varyder - 2011-09-10 3:53 AM
yeah, he's right. It's hard to go back to a shorter life span of dino, or semi-dino, notchy shifting and noisey engine on my Vision.
Hah! So true!
I actually put Victory oil back in my Vision last Spring, because I was changing the oil on three bikes and only had enough Amsoil to do two of them. I had over 5000 miles on the Amsoil in the Vision at that time. I still had a gallon of Victory oil left over from the days when I ran the stuff, so I thought "what they heck, I've got it, I might as well use it" and put the gallon of Vic oil in my Vision.
Instantly, my Vision got noisier, neutral was elusive, and the shifting got "notchy" after about 2000 miles on the oil. I dumped that crap out and refilled with Amsoil and everything is back to normal. The bike is quieter, shifting is smoother, and neutral is easy to find again.
Victory makes some of the best bikes on the planet. Their branded oil--not so much.
Ronnie |
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Cruiser
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Midlothian, Va. | The real lesson here is to stay away from that "wrench" |
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Visionary
Posts: 4278
| I put my Amsoil in a brown paper bag so the motor doesn't know what I'm putting in her.
I love dealers and service guys that think people believe what they say with out checking around. |
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Cruiser
Posts: 258
Akron, Ohio | You can run what you want when you want. I too believe that synthetic is far better, but it wont hurt the bike to switch back. I doubt that you will want to after you get used to he good stuff but it is your call. |
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Cruiser
Posts: 208
Edmonton Alberta, Canada | I finally made the switch this spring to Amsoil, as with the Victory oil change kits leaves you one extra quart! Totally diferent bike with the premium oil. Not to mention the $30 dollar savings. My next bike will only get the 500 mile oil change at the dealer then straight to Amsoil. I now do not have to plan my mc trips around oil changes! |
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Tourer
Posts: 599
New Mexico | norcan - 2011-09-10 9:36 PM
I finally made the switch this spring to Amsoil
Any improvement in mpg?
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Cruiser
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Edmonton Alberta, Canada | Who checks gas milage??????? I ride it like it were stolen, 40-50-or 60 mpg makes very little differance to me in over all operating cost!!!! It is what it is!!!!! Just that is is quieter, cooler, and shifter better and longer than Victory Oil, Oh yeah, and double the change intervals!!!!!! |
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Cruiser
Posts: 156
Bluff Park, Alabama - God's Country! 2011 PW VV | I was pretty sure that it was not gonna blow up if switched back, but I have seen many threads where people are trying diff things so just wanted some feedback. I am curious if the rotella is on par with Amsoil. The bike is SO much better, smoother and quieter now that it has AO synth in it. I do not plan to have the dealer do any more oil changes now that the 5k service has been done! |
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Visionary
Posts: 8144
New Bohemia, VA | I use the rotella all the time - however, I've not found a 0w-40 off the shelf other thans AMSOIL which I'll be switching too soon for the winter months. |
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Visionary
Posts: 4278
| ghostssx - 2011-09-11 1:03 AM I was pretty sure that it was not gonna blow up if switched back, but I have seen many threads where people are trying diff things so just wanted some feedback. I am curious if the rotella is on par with Amsoil. The bike is SO much better, smoother and quieter now that it has AO synth in it. I do not plan to have the dealer do any more oil changes now that the 5k service has been done! Do Not switch around trying different brands. Find a oil that you like and can afford and pick up at a store very easy and stay with it. Switching oils from one to another is not good for the clutch and motor. I use Amsoil cause I can buy it at fleet Farm three miles away and yes I go right by my dealer to get it. I think synthetic oil helps the bike run cooler and in my 08 I go 5000 between changes.
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Tourer
Posts: 500
| I am thinking of going to another oil besides Victory and doing changes myself. If I go to Amsoil for the Vision what weight/type do you use and where or what filter if I don't buy the Vic oil change kit.....I quess I can still buy just the filter at dealer and not oil???? Just curious as I have always had the dealer do my oil/filter changes before he closed shop..New dealer is much farther away and a multi-line dealer so I have to make an appointment and leave bike which I would rather not do...Thanks |
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Visionary
Posts: 4278
| opas ride - 2011-09-11 11:27 AM I am thinking of going to another oil besides Victory and doing changes myself. If I go to Amsoil for the Vision what weight/type do you use and where or what filter if I don't buy the Vic oil change kit.....I quess I can still buy just the filter at dealer and not oil???? Just curious as I have always had the dealer do my oil/filter changes before he closed shop..New dealer is much farther away and a multi-line dealer so I have to make an appointment and leave bike which I would rather not do...Thanks Most of the guys that do there only oil change are using Wix filter P/N 51358 you can buy the at O'Reillys NAPA they say there a really good filter and cheap. They run about $7.oo I use 10w40 year around cause it cools just as good as 20w50 but 10w40 has less piston drag at start up and when bike is hot it cools just as good.
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Cruiser
Posts: 102
Cedar, Michigan | I have been using Shell Rotella T6 Full Synthetic 5W40 in my Vision, It cost $20 for a 4 Qt. jug at Wally World. Amazing value for the $$$$. Very quiet tranny, ZERO clutch slip. I wouldn't consider going to another oil dino or syn. |
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Visionary
Posts: 3773
Pittsburgh, PA | this is a interesting read. the whole thing about once you go synth you cant go back has Always made me laugh!!
http://www.amsoil.com/articlespr/articlemyths.aspx |
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Visionary
Posts: 8144
New Bohemia, VA | I use the ST7317 (supertech) oil filter from wal-mart. At $2.88 a pop and it came out fairing just as well as the top dollar filter on a taste test, why pay more for the same thing? |
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Visionary
Posts: 1632
Jasper, MO | john frey - 2011-09-11 3:01 PM
opas ride - 2011-09-11 11:27 AM I am thinking of going to another oil besides Victory and doing changes myself. If I go to Amsoil for the Vision what weight/type do you use and where or what filter if I don't buy the Vic oil change kit.....I quess I can still buy just the filter at dealer and not oil???? Just curious as I have always had the dealer do my oil/filter changes before he closed shop..New dealer is much farther away and a multi-line dealer so I have to make an appointment and leave bike which I would rather not do...Thanks ? Most of the guys that do there only oil change are using Wix filter P/N 51358 you can buy the at O'Reillys? NAPA? they say there a really good filter and cheap. They run about $7.oo I use 10w40 year around cause it cools just as good as 20w50 but 10w40 has less piston drag at start up and when bike is hot it cools just as good.
The WIX 51358 is the listed (motorcycle specific) filter for a Victory and a very good filter. The WIX 51356 is basically the same filter, but is a little longer and is listed for a lot of cars and industrial equipment. It also fits Victorys just fine and is cheaper due to the economy of scale. I get them around here for about $4.50.
The WIX 51356, NAPA 1356, and CarQuest 85356 are all the same filter and are all made by WIX. Similarly, the WIX 51358, NAPA 1358, and CarQuest 85358 are all made by WIX..
I've been using the regular Amsoil 20W50 motor oil in Victory bikes for over 10 years. It is also JASO MA rated, and is cheaper than the Amsoil "motorcycle" oil. The Amsoil 10W40 has the same specs, other than weight. You can also use the Amsoil "motorcycle oil". Your choice.
My son works at a Walmart Tire and Lube center. They do not install Walmart Supertech filters as part of the normal service. Supertech filters are offered on the shelf for sale to the "cost conscious, do it yourself consumer". Personally, I'll spend the extra couple of bucks for a premium filter, especially since I go 5000+ miles per oil change on the Amsoil.
Ronnie |
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Visionary
Posts: 8144
New Bohemia, VA | There was a filter comparison on Bob the oil guy website that compared the $2.88 supertech filter up there with the $7.00 - $14.00 filters and was rated better if I'm not mistaken to some. It is all on what you spend your money on. I guess if they would start charging more for supertechs without changing anything more "quality mind" folks would buy them. The comparison was not to prove anything about any one filter, it was just showing the comparison.
I used Fram for a number of years without issue until I got a defect in one and nearly lost my engine. I found out then that Fram is one of the worst oil filters on the market and yet they are known for filters. |
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Visionary
Posts: 3773
Pittsburgh, PA | varyder - 2011-09-11 7:46 PM
There was a filter comparison on Bob the oil guy website that compared the $2.88 supertech filter up there with the $7.00 - $14.00 filters and was rated better if I'm not mistaken to some. It is all on what you spend your money on. I guess if they would start charging more for supertechs without changing anything more "quality mind" folks would buy them. The comparison was not to prove anything about any one filter, it was just showing the comparison.
I used Fram for a number of years without issue until I got a defect in one and nearly lost my engine. I found out then that Fram is one of the worst oil filters on the market and yet they are known for filters.
get this talk about defective oil filters i had (3) Yes 3 defective AMSOIL oil filters. 2 over 2-3 years then the last one i said enough! and contacted amsoil. they said my size they were aware of problems.. they sent me 5 qts of their motorcycle oil since i lost half of it on my garage floor! right now i am using a polaris oil filter (only because i bought it when i bought the bike). so Now when i dont have a polaris oil filter i use NAPA Gold. they always have then in stock and on BITOG forum they always score in the top... the problem i had with the amsoil filter(S) were Uneven surface where the rubber gasket sits. if you were to put a flat edge on it, you could see it wasnt perfectly level.... and those filters were Not cheap! |
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Visionary
Posts: 1632
Jasper, MO | I've read many of those comparisons. All I've ever been able to find are comparisons where some dude cut open various filters and made judgments based on how the components "looked" to him. I've never been able to find any test data that showed things like measured pressure drop across the filter, actual filtering efficiency, actual bypass valve opening pressure, etc. In other words, no scientific data, just opinions. I would be interested in seeing some scientific research if you know of a source. The Supertech filters may be as good or better than some other branded filters. For the extra $1.56, I'll continue to use premium WIX filters and change them every 5000 miles.
Many people using the Supertech filters are changing them at 2500 miles, so 2 X $2.88=$5.66.
I paid $4.44 for WIX 51356 filters last time I got some. I run them 5000 miles, along with Amsoil.
$5.66 minus $4.44 = $1.22 more for the Supertech filters. I think I'm saving money. I know I'm confident in the quality of the WIX filters and the Amsoil. I signed up as a preferred customer at Amsoil and get the 25% discount. My oil changes with the WIX filter and Amsoil cost me just a bit over $40 for 5000 miles.
What are people paying for oil and filters that get changed at 2500 miles?
Ronnie
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Tourer
Posts: 411
Dallas, Texas | I use a semi-syn, right now Motul, but thinking about Brad Penn, in winter, and Mobil 1 full syn, in summer, both 20W/50. Don't put enough miles on the bike to worry about mileage, just every 6 months. Always use PurOne oil filter, without issue. As long as the oil is rated for motorcycle, switching from syn to semi syn, is fine. Nothing, and I mean nothing printed, states that changing types or brands of oil, as long as they are properly rated, is bad for a motor. Amsoil has a great marketing department. I love me some oil threads.
Edited by iluvink 2011-09-13 1:05 PM
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Cruiser
Posts: 160
Camas Washington | I have never posted on any of these oil discussions since I find them boring. This is what I have to say about synthetic oils: Synthetic Oil = Paulov Dogs = Placebo Effective. I have to ask the question. Do those that swear by synthetic oil in their engine think they really know better than the engineers that designed and built the vic engines. If you do then go apply to vic but you better have a mechinical engineering degree. If vic and their engineers knew that the engines would run better and wear better with synthetic, then don't you think that is what they would require to put in them?? You put synthetic in because someone on this site says its better which they heard from some wrench that swears by it. Thus you use it and you tell your brain that all is smoother and better - the placebo effect. Also as a marketing ploy it would be better for vic to sell full synthetic, the margin in the price would be greater than semi however they do no do that because vic knows what works best.
This is nothing more than my opinion. If you feel better with full syn use it! For me I will trust those that built and designed the motors. |
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Tourer
Posts: 411
Dallas, Texas | Riverdawg - 2011-09-13 1:30 PM
I have never posted on any of these oil discussions since I find them boring. This is what I have to say about synthetic oils: Synthetic Oil = Paulov Dogs = Placebo Effective. I have to ask the question. Do those that swear by synthetic oil in their engine think they really know better than the engineers that designed and built the vic engines. If you do then go apply to vic but you better have a mechinical engineering degree. If vic and their engineers knew that the engines would run better and wear better with synthetic, then don't you think that is what they would require to put in them?? You put synthetic in because someone on this site says its better which they heard from some wrench that swears by it. Thus you use it and you tell your brain that all is smoother and better - the placebo effect. Also as a marketing ploy it would be better for vic to sell full synthetic, the margin in the price would be greater than semi however they do no do that because vic knows what works best.
This is nothing more than my opinion. If you feel better with full syn use it! For me I will trust those that built and designed the motors.
Not that I think full syn is the end all of oil, for out there for our Vics. But knowing what I know about Corporate style decisions, I really seriously doubt that there was a technicians and engineers meetings where they came up with a special oil formula just for the Vic engine, and then got an oil company to manufacture it to that specificiation. More than likely, they had a minimum standard for oil and shopped for the cheapest supplier/manufacturer to provide it. |
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Cruiser
Posts: 273
Midlothian, Va. | iluvink - 2011-09-13 6:00 PM Not that I think full syn is the end all of oil, for out there for our Vics. But knowing what I know about Corporate style decisions, I really seriously doubt that there was a technicians and engineers meetings where they came up with a special oil formula just for the Vic engine, and then got an oil company to manufacture it to that specificiation. More than likely, they had a minimum standard for oil and shopped for the cheapest supplier/manufacturer to provide it.Ding Ding we have a winner
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New user
Posts: 2
| Hello Everyone,
I am a newbie to Victory and your Forum, after riding all types of Bikes for 40 years. (makes me feel old just saying that)
My question is my Victory Manual states oil requirements are: JASO MA 20W40 suitable for wet clutch
I noticed on the Amsol site (under MC Oil) my options were 20w50 and 10W40, have any of you found a Amsol that directly meets the 20W40 requirement? If not then what do you use?
I believe staying as close to what the manual says may help if I ever encounter a warrantty issue, am I being to anal?
Thanks for the help, Jeff |
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Iron Butt
Posts: 1117
Northeast Ohio | Welcome, Jeff! Please update your profile / signature with the model year of your bike and location (if you wouldn't mind). It will help us to understand you more. 
I think you will find folks running the Victory Semi-Syn 20W40, Shell Rotella-T (blue jug) 5W40 and Amsoil 10W40 with little or any issues. Victory will tell you that your gear indicator might not work correctly if you don't use their oil (not joking). |
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Cruiser
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Wichita, Kansas | OK. Here we go again. I AM an engineer for a major defense contractor. Aircraft are a lot more sensitive and critical than motorcycles, and I can tell you what engineers do. We find the most cost effective part which will meet the specification and create the best profit margin/warranty ratio. Aircraft engines switched to synthetics over 20 years ago because of their superiority, and they run 100,000 RPM and 1,500 degrees.
My cohorts in automotive do the same thing. The name of the game is cost containment and profit. You won't sell a product that costs too much. Kia could make a 250,000 mile car, but it would cost $50,000. You use what gives the minimum acceptable results at the best price.
The bottom line is that the semi-syn is pretty good stuff, will not hurt your engine, and your engine will last a long time. The synthetic is just a little better, but more expensive. Your call as long as the oil you choose is certified to the proper spec.
As for the synthetic, go look at the history of the 1991 corvette when they switched from the L98 engine to the LT1. The radiator would not take the extra heat from the more powerful engine, and GM didn't want the expense of a larger radiator redesign or an oil cooler, so they switched from dino to Mobil 1. That allowed them to to keep the existing cooling system since the Mobil 1 made the engine run cooler and stay within spec.
That said, either quote an engineer, give the site where you Google'd your info, or state that this is just your layman's opinion.
The flaming may now continue. |
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Iron Butt
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Broken Arrow, OK | OH yeah? Well I have an uncle whose former boss was the brother of guy who dated a gal whose dad knew a ...........................I like amsoil 20/50. Always have, always will. Laymans opinion, been running it for over 25 years. I let my dealer do the 500 mile breakin/oil change/service and drained their oil when the speedo hit 2K, adding my amsoil and Wix filter and will continue to do this every 5K until I no longer own the bike. |
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Cruiser
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Wichita, Kansas | Okie - Based on my own engineering experience and the observation of data gathered by other engineers whose abilities I respect, I can find no fault with your plan. That is, I agree. |
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Tourer
Posts: 411
Dallas, Texas | Yea, but does aircraft's or Corvette's clutch slip when using full syn? |
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Visionary
Posts: 1632
Jasper, MO | iluvink - 2011-09-16 10:20 PM
Yea, but does aircraft's or Corvette's clutch slip when using full syn?
Does your Victory's? Neither of mine slip with synthetic oil. I've used synthetic oil in bikes for many years, with no slipping clutch issues, including the full-on drag bikes I used to race. Some folks have blamed clutch problems on synthetic oil use, only to find out later that they had a mechanical issue that had nothing to do with the type of oil used. Yet, the myth persists, perpetuated by the rumor mill.
Ronnie |
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Visionary
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New Bohemia, VA | rdbudd - 2011-09-17 11:34 AM
iluvink - 2011-09-16 10:20 PM
Yea, but does aircraft's or Corvette's clutch slip when using full syn?
Does your Victory's? Neither of mine slip with synthetic oil. I've used synthetic oil in bikes for many years, with no slipping clutch issues, including the full-on drag bikes I used to race. Some folks have blamed clutch problems on synthetic oil use, only to find out later that they had a mechanical issue that had nothing to do with the type of oil used. Yet, the myth persists, perpetuated by the rumor mill.
Ronnie
There are some dealer technicians that will swear that synthetic oil will cause the clutch to slip if you ride hard, not so much if you take it easy. Also, I believe, but can never prove it, is folk will put in some funky additive that will destroy the clutch, even if you change the oil right away. Once it hits the clutch, it will eat away until it is gone. So, instead of blaming their ignorance, they'll blame something else. Also, dino, and mixed syn-dino is cheaper, so that also gives them the excuse to say that syn oil ruined their clutch. Strictly speculation. Also, I'm not directing this toward anyone who has had a mechnical problem or even a defective clutch. I've run synthetic and even switched up without any ill affects for the past 20 oil changes or so.
Edited by varyder 2011-09-17 11:11 AM
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Visionary
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Jasper, MO | Riverdawg - 2011-09-13 1:30 PM
I have never posted on any of these oil discussions since I find them boring. This is what I have to say about synthetic oils: Synthetic Oil = Paulov Dogs = Placebo Effective. I have to ask the question. Do those that swear by synthetic oil in their engine think they really know better than the engineers that designed and built the vic engines. If you do then go apply to vic but you better have a mechinical engineering degree. If vic and their engineers knew that the engines would run better and wear better with synthetic, then don't you think that is what they would require to put in them?? You put synthetic in because someone on this site says its better which they heard from some wrench that swears by it. Thus you use it and you tell your brain that all is smoother and better - the placebo effect. Also as a marketing ploy it would be better for vic to sell full synthetic, the margin in the price would be greater than semi however they do no do that because vic knows what works best.
This is nothing more than my opinion. If you feel better with full syn use it! For me I will trust those that built and designed the motors.
You could be right.
OR
Some of us started riding Victory motorcycles 11 or 12 years ago, the year 2000 in my case. If you've been around Victory bikes very long, you know that some early Victory owners had transmission issues with their bikes. Practically everyone, including me, used the recommended Victory oil in their bikes. The recommended oil change interval was 2500 miles. Everybody was complaining about clunky transmissions, "notchy shifting", and difficulty finding neutral. The consensus was that everybody was seeing these issues after the bikes had about 2000 miles on the oil. The early bikes today have a reputation for "bad trannies", even though there are many who have never had a transmission problem.
Many of the owners who experienced transmission problems said things like "I've always changed oil religiously and only used Victory oil and filters". They were convinced that Victory had bad transmissions across the board. Victory said that there was nothing wrong with their transmissions. People were pissed. The brand suffered. To this day, the early bikes have a bad reputation. Popular opinion is that ALL early Victory bikes will suffer a transmission failure. I don't believe it. Mine's still fine, as are many others. I think it was a lubrication problem, and here's why.
Some of us reasoned that there was nothing we could do to the transmission design, but we could try a different lubricant. My records show that I started trying different oils at 8616 miles on my bike. I tried a couple of different oils, including Mobile 1, before trying Amsoil. The results on the other oils were about the same as with the Victory oil, that is, the shifting got "notchy" and neutral became difficult to find after the oil had about 2000 miles on it. I continued to change at 2500 miles. I was starting to wonder if maybe I would have transmission trouble too, someday. It was a new brand of bike and all, maybe they didn't have their act together............
Then I tried the Amsoil. As soon as I put it in, the bike shifted smoother. Furthermore, it was still shifting great at 2000 miles, then 2500 miles. I started stretching out the change intervals, finally going to 5000 miles. With 5000 miles on the Amsoil, the bike still shifts good and neutral comes easily. I switched to the Amsoil in 2003, and my bike has never had any transmission OR clutch slipping problems, even though I've managed to break two drive belts when racing the bike.
Undeniably, the newer Victory bikes have much improved transmissions when compared to the older bikes, but until they incorporated a neutral finder into their transmissions, they still recommended 2500 mile oil changes and their specified oil.
I've been using Amsoil in my Victory bikes for many years now, including my Vision. I recently changed my Vision back over to Victory oil because I had it on hand, left over from when I was a "true believer" and decided to use it up. My Vision immediately became noisier, the shifting soon became "notchy", and neutral became illusive as soon as I started riding the bike with the Victory oil in it. I changed it back out to Amsoil after I had about 2000 miles on the Victory oil, and everything went back to normal, smooth shifting and easy to find neutral. I'll run it 5000 miles like I've done for years.
I'm no engineer. I have proved to myself that the Victory oil is far inferior to Amsoil, and I suspect it was a contributing factor in the early transmission trouble saga.
I don't think the engineers ordered the oil. I think the bean counters did.
Victory bikes are some of the best on the planet. BUT, Victory oil sucks. Run it in your bike at your own risk, and change it OFTEN.
Ronnie
PS. I'm also a trucker by profession. I became interested in synthetic oils after the trucking fleets did comparative testing using synthetic oil, and ended up doubling the service intervals after switching to synthetic oils and driveline lubricants. The petroleum lubes break down with use. The synthetics last (and continue to lubricate) MUCH longer than the petroleum based stuff. It's cheaper to use in the long run, (longer service intervals, less equipment wear) which is the real reason the trucking fleets switched to it.
Edited by rdbudd 2011-09-17 11:32 AM
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Visionary
Posts: 4278
| I race every harley I get the chance to and no prob limo 10w40 amsoil If you want to read about oil here you go. You'll find 10w40 is just as good as 20w50 but less harm is done to your motor at start up. Slippage is more in the rider then the oil.
http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/
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NOT another oil thread.