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Iron Butt
Posts: 600
Linwood, MI | I saw someone mention taking out the baffles in a thread a while back, so I decided that today while waiting for the wife I'd have a look for myself. I have the S1L2 pipes and located the two bolts that hold the baffles in the pipes. Wasn't really sure how to approach the project, so I just jumped in and started rippin' and tearin'. I ended up doing the left side the hard way; right side I did the easy way. If anyone wants some details on how this is done, I'll be glad to whip up something to post here for it.
Anyway, with the baffles out the exhaust is LOUD. I'm talking set off car alarms loud. It does sound like a nice, beefy engine now, though. At first I was really impressed with way it sounded, but after a quick ride I was a tad put off by the added roar. I came home and picked up the wife and she, of course, noticed it louder immediately. We went for about a two hour ride like that and after a while we got used to it. It does make the radio harder to hear  . I also noticed that I got a lot more attention from the plethora of Harley riders that were out on the road.
I still haven't made up my mind on whether or not I like them like this, so I'll leave the baffles out for a couple of weeks and see how it goes. |
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Cruiser
Posts: 143
Sparta, WI | You must be bored. |
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Iron Butt
Posts: 600
Linwood, MI | Minnow - 2008-11-04 5:46 PM
You must be bored.
Why? Because I posted this or because I tore the baffles out in the first place? lol |
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Iron Butt
Posts: 935
Rockford, IL | Do you think its possible to partially remove some of the the baffling? Or is it a "all or nothing" ordeal? I was talking to Lloyd the other day. He was telling me a super easy and cheap way to mod the exahust is to take a gas or water pipe with an o.d that matches the i.d of the muffler opening, which is aprox. 1.5", and gently "tap" it into the muffler with a rubber mallet till it stops, which is aprox. 18" and then pull it out enough to cut the pipe so it is flush with the end of muffler. Apparently this will bypass most of the baffling in the pipe. He said it will be a bit louder than the S2 pipes but nowhere near as loud as the Big Honker units. He also said that no map is needed and with the closed loop system there isn't a worry about loosing the back pressure. Now that you've been into yours.....watcha think about doing this pipe route? Oh yea......I'd love a write up on what you did. Even if its something a bit hacked together without any pictures
Edited by Lotzafun 2008-11-04 8:40 PM
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Tourer
Posts: 404
San Antonio, TX United States | I also would like info on taking the baffles out. I have been toying with the idea of taking the Catalytic material out and leaving the baffles in the exhaust pipe. Note: My evil twin (doppelganger) posted the previous comment. I would never attempt to do something that goes against our EPA or might be construed as something illegal. 
Edited by dwhite28 2008-11-04 10:19 PM
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Iron Butt
Posts: 600
Linwood, MI | @Lotzafun - The baffles on the S1L2 pipes are nothing more than a metal tube with some slots punched in them, so it's pretty much an all or nothing thing. On further thought on it, though, it may be possible to enlarge the slots and get a bigger sound. If my daughter will let me use her digital camera I'll take some pics and post them up so you can see what they look like.
As for using a gas or water pipe to bypass the baffles, I think in theory it would work. I'd want to use something thin to avoid choking the pipe down too much. It seems to me that doing that would give the sound a boost, but not as much as just taking out the baffles. I think with the baffles out the pipes actually become a bit of a resonance chamber and amplify the sound. Definitely worth looking into. I might have to try that; would probably make the wife happier .
I'll try to get a quick write up on the process posted by Thursday and perhaps a step-by-step with photos by early next week. |
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Cruiser
Posts: 143
Sparta, WI | Rebel - 2008-11-04 8:30 PM
Minnow - 2008-11-04 5:46 PM
You must be bored.
Why? Because I posted this or because I tore the baffles out in the first place? lol
Because you tore the baffles out. Level 2 already has some rumble. I was wondering why would someone would want to remove the baffles and I simply figured you must be bored. It struck me funny. |
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Cruiser
Posts: 294
rhode island | How about taking a hack saw and cutting those foolishly long chrome monsters right off.
then you could run staggerd duels and be really LOUD! After all it's just a luxury touring bike.
Edited by sandman 2008-11-05 4:20 PM
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Cruiser
Posts: 231
Hampton Va | I would like mine to be louder...I think he is on to somthing....I am tired of my daughter telling me she liked the 8ball better cause it sounded like a kool bike...... |
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Iron Butt
Posts: 935
Rockford, IL | I'm going to have some free time tonight. Thinking about heading to Lowes and seeing what they have for piping. Give me something to screw up tomorrow while I'm at work...its nice being in management.
Any chance at all anyone possibly has the i.d. of the mufflers? Would save me some time in popping the ends of mine. |
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Tourer
Posts: 506
Woodland Hills, CA | I was always told (from multiple sources) that fuel injected engines need the back pressure from the baffles to perform properly, and that not running with baffles for a long period of time might possibly cause damage to an engine not designed to run that way. I am not a mechanic, but I can tell you that I ended up rebuilding my fuel injected Harley after running without baffles for about a year. I am not saying that was the cause (as I said, I am not a mechanic), but when the engine was rebuilt, I did a lot of research, and ended up with a set of pipes with baffles that were specifically designed to my application. I did not have a problem after that (that is, of course, until I found the Vision, at which time my Harley became a garage ornament).
But if loud pipes float your boat, by all means go ahead and install them. Lord knows I rode with loud pipes for years. But check with someone who knows about the possible performance and damage implications BEFORE you remove the baffles. |
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Iron Butt
Posts: 935
Rockford, IL | Wizard523 - 2008-11-05 4:31 PM I was always told (from multiple sources) that fuel injected engines need the back pressure from the baffles to perform properly, and that not running with baffles for a long period of time might possibly cause damage to an engine not designed to run that way. I am not a mechanic, but I can tell you that I ended up rebuilding my fuel injected Harley after running without baffles for about a year. I am not saying that was the cause (as I said, I am not a mechanic), but when the engine was rebuilt, I did a lot of research, and ended up with a set of pipes with baffles that were specifically designed to my application. I did not have a problem after that (that is, of course, until I found the Vision, at which time my Harley became a garage ornament). But if loud pipes float your boat, by all means go ahead and install them. Lord knows I rode with loud pipes for years. But check with someone who knows about the possible performance and damage implications BEFORE you remove the baffles. I agree with you...somewhat. If you remove the backpressure you can have problems with running lean (I think) which then turns into problems with predetonation which then can cause issues such as blowing holes in pistons. This used to be quite a problem with EFI bikes that didn't have catylitic converters. But now most bikes have catylitic converters, which have a fair amount of baffles in them that restricts the exhaust flow and gives the engine the backpressure it needs. Now...not every catylitic converter creates enough backpressure though. So modding exhaust can sometimes tend to be a bike by bike type thing. The Lloyd I talked to was Lloyd at http://www.lloydz.com/ .....or otherwise know as the number one source of Victory performance. In case anyone wasn't aware. I asked him multiple times if any type of controller or anything was needed for this pipe exhaust mod...his answer was NOPE. I also asked him multiple times if any issues with decreasing the backpressure would occur...his answer again was NOPE. He also said that the Vision catylitic system has more than enough backpressure. I almost wanted to ask Lloyd if it was safe to run with the mufflers could be completely removed, but I didn't, but could you imagine that sound?!?!? So based on Lloyd said I'm proceeding down the pipe mod route. I trust the guy |
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Puddle Jumper
Posts: 20
| Can you put out a video of how LOUD they sound? You raised some good points about the pipes being too loud. |
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Tourer
Posts: 404
San Antonio, TX United States | Too Loud?
How can that be?
Is it really possible to be too loud?
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Cruiser
Posts: 231
Hampton Va | since i race very very loud cars there is no such thing as too loud!!!! |
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Puddle Jumper
Posts: 20
| I meant car alarm setting off loud, @ 4 in the morning when I leave for work. Right now I have the S1L2 on my Vision. I saw the video of the thunder sticks on youtube, and would like a louder sound than that to compare to. I want my bike louder than it is right now, and my neighbors would just have to live with it. |
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Iron Butt
Posts: 600
Linwood, MI | OK, I'm trying to figure out how to get video and pics from camera to PC, but in the meantime here's a quick update...
Concerning back pressure, the catalytic converters in the head pipes should provide sufficient back pressure.
As for noise, I like the way it sounds, but I'm still thinking it's too loud for me. I did take some video with sound so y'all can hear what it's like. Working on posting it.
I took it for a 200 mile ride yesterday to get a feel for it. More and more I think I'm going back to the baffles. When I finally got to work after 200 miles of mostly interstate riding I was exhausted and my head hurt. I've never felt so tired from riding the Vision before. There's more rumble and vibration from the engine now and I can actually feel sound waves hitting me. Admittedly, though, I was sportin' wood a few times when I unleashed that roar to pass cars.
I'll keep you posted and get the pics and write-up posted ASAP.
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Puddle Jumper
Posts: 20
| Thanks for the update. I will try to download some pics as well. |
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Iron Butt
Posts: 935
Rockford, IL | I made it to Lowes last night. Took my tape and measured all of the steel pipes...none of them will work properly. One had an o.d. that was very close and could possibly work...with a little force. But I think I'm going to check out a few other places. I'm thinking that maybe one of the other places will have a different brand pipe that maybe has a slightly different o.d. that may fit.....without force. Or I may try electrical conduit?
Edited by Lotzafun 2008-11-06 6:27 PM
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Iron Butt
Posts: 600
Linwood, MI | Ok, here's a quick and dirt how-to for removing the baffles on the Stage 1 Level 2 pipes:
There's a hard way to do this and an easy way. The hard way to do all this is to remove the side bag lids and a bunch of body panels, then take off the exhaust pipes. However, being the lazy mechanic that I am I discovered that with a little care you do it a lot quicker and easier. So, here's the easy way:
1. Remove the rear bumper cover. This is the silver/gray piece that all the way at the bottom/back between the exhaust pipes. There are 6 allen bolts that hold it on. I used a size 5/32 allen wrench, but I think it's really a metric size... 4 or 5mm. Two of the bolts are located on the bottom of the panel, two are on the sides right between the exhaust pipe and the lowest trim panel, the one with the little reflector on it.
The last two bolts are the tricky ones. These are located underneath the lowest edge of the Taillight Trim Panel (also called M Panel). Here's where the careful part comes in. You can very carefully pry up the end of the panel in order to access the last two bolts for the bumper cover. This panel has a rectangular snap clip for holding it in place and also has a long "peg" that fits in a hole that holds another trim panel in place (3 trim panels all meet in this area). I carefully pried this up until the snap clip and peg cleared and let it move to the side a tad so that the clip mount was beside the hole and held the piece elevated for me. Then I had just enough to room to get my allen wrench in to remove the bolt.
I'll get pictures of this step as soon as can so y'all can see what I'm talking about. I know it's probably a little confusing reading it and trying to figure out what the heck I mean.
2. With the bumper cover remove you now have access to both the bolts that hold the baffles in the pipe. One bolt is located facing directly into the center of the bike. This is the 9 o'clock position on the right pipe and the 3 o'clock position on the left one. These 2 bolts are why we had to remove the bumper cover.
The other bolt is located on the bottom of the pipe and slightly inboard. You can get to this one by lying on the ground. I was sitting a small shop stool and found that I could see it just fine on the stool with the bumper cover removed.
Now, before you get too excited, there's a small problem here. These bolts that hold the baffles in are tamper resistant allen bolts. Yes, you read correctly: tamper resistant allen bolts, not tamper resistant torx bolts. Try as I might I have been thus far unable to locate a tool dealer that has even heard of tamper resistant allen wrench, let alone carry one. So, I used the next best tool: vise grips. I clamped onto the bolt and carefully turned it out, trying not scratch up the chrome. These bolt heads are most likely going to get ruined taking them out, so if you want to put the baffles back in you'll want to get some new ones. I recommend stainless steel bolts, and allen head if you can find them.
3. Now that the retaining bolts are removed it's just a matter of pulling out the baffles. The front end of the baffle (the end you can't see) is slipped over the header pipe, so it can be a little sticky. You may be able to just grab the end with your fingers and work it out, but mine required a little more oomph. I ended up using a pair of channel locks. I stuck them into the pipe and then opened them up so they grabbed the inside of the pipe. Then I pulled straight out while appling a back and forth twisting motion.
If you can't get the baffle out with the channel lock method, you'll need to go back to the hard way so you can remove the exhaust pipe and then tamp it down on the floor to get it to come out. Make sure you put down something like a board or some rags so the tip doesn't become scuffed or dented.
And there you have it. As soon as I get the pics I'll redo this with a little more detail. And I'll also try to find a part #for the tamper resistant allen wrench, if there is one to be had. |
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Cruiser
Posts: 231
Hampton Va | Thanks ...I think I will try this this weekend! |
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Iron Butt
Posts: 600
Linwood, MI | Small update: I located a tamper resistant hex key at my local fastener shop. It's a mere $6. I don't know who makes it, but at least we know it can be had. Link |
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Tourer
Posts: 311
Atlanta Area | You can buy a whole set of security bit from Harbor Freight for 5 buckazoids. Here is a link to the set:
http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/displayitem.taf?Itemnumber=93...
Your link was for security HEX bit set. The baffles take a security TORX bit.
BTW, after taking the baffles out of the Tigger Jet, Jason asked me to ride it so he could hear what it sounded like when he wasn't on the bike. Without the baffles, the drumming in the pit of my gut was too much to bear. I mean you can really feel it. I'm used to loud pipes as my past 3 bikes have been Harleys. But the S1L2 without baffles set up a weird drumming resonance that really makes me physically uncomfortable. We ended up putting the baffles back in after the test ride.
Edited by 1atom12 2008-11-08 8:20 PM
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Tourer
Posts: 404
San Antonio, TX United States | Word of advice. Upon starting the removal, you may want to spray some WD-40 or other lube that will help break up the carbon and minor rust. Do this first to help aid removal of the baffle. I just did remived my baffles a few moments ago and will ride it for a few days. Please take a look at the screw that holds your baffle in, some may be Security Hex and some may be Security Torx. A T-25 Bit will take the screw out if you are careful. If the lock-tite is holding like it should you may round out the Security Hex screw while using a Security Torx bit. My pipes had the Security Hex. You can not mistake a Hex for a Torx.
Edited by dwhite28 2008-11-08 9:09 PM
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Puddle Jumper
Posts: 20
| I removed my baffles yesterday with no problem. The sound is definitely louder! I will take a long ride today to see the difference on the road. One thing I noticed when removing the baffles, was the slots on the pipes. Would a muffler shop be able to weld a straight piece of pipe in place of the slots? I will get back with a report after the ride.  |
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Exhaust modification
