I recently posted the following on the VOG website. I am curious about your thoughts..... JAM???

You should already know that Vision Owners (and prospectives) have a website:  www.vision-riders.com

As of today - there are 1060 registered members on that site.

There were about 2400 2008 Visions produced, so I think I can say that there must be at least 3000 Vision Owners.

So - that means that only about 1/3 of the Vision Owners belong to their OWN website.

If you own a Vision and haven't registered and visited your site - please do so - it's the best place for learning about your machine.

If you know a Vision owner who isn't a member - please inform them.

I would hate to think that 2/3 of Vision Owners don't care to belong to their own brotherhood. Or that they are Computer Challenged!!!!

And you can buy better T-Shirts there!!!!!

I can't resist posting to this one, sorry. I've been a viewer of forums since they came out. I resist being part of one because they always spawn debates, the life of a forum to start with. There are a couple observations that I have made concerning forums, I'm no expert but most of you know I have to spew useless babble on this site. What drawed me (okay, I'm free to use bad queens english since I'm from Virginny) to this site is a FEW people. Some are still here, some aren't here no more. Yes, I have a Vision, yes I joined this site because I have a Vision. I even did a review and got a very nice longsleeve T for it. (Thanks JAMS and Miles).

But here are a few things about Forums that I have learned.

• Not everyone will join them who are interested in the same thing that you do. In fact, I find 1/3 of the presumed Vision owners is very stout. This is not the Vision Owner's Registry
• Not everyone who joins will join into the foray. Go look at your 1,000 plus members, join date and number of posts. Close to 500, about half has never made a post, and 790 has made 10 or less, so there is about 300 that has made 1 - 10 post. So that leaves about 200 that runs around on this forum somewhat regularly, or I would count them so. Only a few have made over a 1,000 post.
• Of the forums I have belong, I have fun at first then it gets boring fast because it becomes recycle except for the new guy. It's like having steak every thursday, after the third week its no big deal. I belonged to the GoldWing site for a while. Structurally they are great, they have the forums seperate and occassionally the forum police stepped in removed post, they don't freeze, they yank them, sometimes almost immediately. I'm not sure of their method and maddness, because some had some very grownup talk in them, the others that were yank, I have not idea what they said. But how do I know they would do this? Because usually the author of the post as well as others would go on and on about how the forum police has to stop and this is a free country and blah, blah blah.
• Forums will almost always make someone mad. Keep posting, and someone will say something that someone else doesn't like. This usually comes from folk who should just move on to begin with and forget what was said. But none the less they have to comment on what someone said, turn it around and get a fire going. Many, many, many posts are of this nature. Okay, you don't think so, go around and hunt down some forums and see if you don't find them. Now, with that said, this is the very thing that will keep forums alive. When this is not allowed especially in the biker community, the site is going down. I joined with one site, won't mention the name, but it can get rather crass, but you know what, there is forums there are very enjoyable and civil too. The mixed sites seem to be the strongest and most enjoyable, because everyone has a level, any one can play, knowing the rules. In otherwords, the foul mouthers go to their own place and talk all the trash the want, but when they come down to the more family oriented part and join, they clean up. I'm not telling anyone how to run the site, that is up to the forum master and what they want to get out of them. But the forum users, understand where you are and who has control.
• Forums will spawn forums, will spawn forums. I'm new to victory, but when I found theVMC.com I thought it was great, and still do, Great dialogue over there, but they grow stagnate sometimes as well, but if you look there is always good stuff. But theVmc was first, then came Vision Riders to be specific, even though there is a Vision forum at theVMC.com. When I go over there I find the same stuff that is posted here, why? Because some will never come over here, and I do mean never. They may lurk, but they are where they want to be. The other site, and I hate call names, but it has its following as well. Of course it is the one mentioned here, VOG.net. Yet another attempt to become the PREMIER VICTORY Website. Personnally I have not interested in anything there, and I know no one will every miss me over there. The funny thing is that they guy that runs that over there is constantly monitoring this over here. That is equavilant to the radio station listen to the other one to know what to play on their station. Call it marketing strategy or whatever, but it work for some and not others. Sure, I would have the right to go over there and ask others to come here, but what is the point? In fact I might join there just to do that to aggrevate, this is a free country and this internet is free to use, right. Whats' the worse he'll do, delete me?
• You might wonder what point I'm trying to make, and it is this, don't worry about who or who doesn't come here, if you want to enjoy it. The other 2/3 that I haven't even mentioned will probably never come here ever. Maybe a fourth of them went somewhere else and half of those, basically 1/3 will never ever know this site exists or will even care. As many Goldwing riders there are, I would ask if they were a member of GWRRA, and they would look at me like "What is that." Very, very few wingers that I came across even knew the site existed, much less joined. I don't expect anything different with Vision owners.

I hope I have contributed to the answer, why so low? The bottom line is, even in the corporate world where they'll make you join a forum or collaboration center, they find they still have a large percentage that will not touch them. Alot comes down to time. I have to be doing something, so even in my relax mode I'm typing away here or hitting the refresh button to chime in. But seriously, I can drop this right now....

Ooooooohhhhh! It's a software issue you're talking about there Don. Well, let me tell you.... actually I won't go there. I do find the "slowness" at times that folk talk about, but that is experienced with every computer. You even need to consider what you have on YOUR computer. I'm simple joe, I don't all that fancy stuff that people want or unexpectantly take, so that is my first defense. In other words I don't have google browser or whatever those adds in are called. Yes, it can be because of your own computer. You might not think so because "other sites" don't run slow, but there is a lot more to it than that. If figure if it runs fine most of the time, and yes VR does, and when the bad times hit, I know it could be any number of things other than the site itself.

But I'm sure that JAM and Miles can do some inquiry of the hosting facility to see what might be the issue for the masses. But since it is some folk and not all, all of the time, it could be you're stepping on your internet cable at your house causing the slow down.

Ark, it does seem to be a travesty that a dealer wouldn't sign up for a forum about the bikes they work on, and I think it is for good reason. I figure they may lurk to get a pulse of things, but the bottom line is that no one can work on the bike from the internet. It's like taking your bike to dealer and say fix it, but they cannot duplicate the problem you are having. I know the guys are tech trained and hopefully are gaining the experience they need to fix my bike if the need arises. I wouldn't want them fixing my bike based on what Bubba says on the forum. (I don't thing there is any Bubba's here are there?) I expect them to defer to the people who engineered and makes the bike to give them expert information.

Now, I might be rattling, and I probably am, but after being in Army maintenance for 20 years I want the information from the folk who design build and see the big picture. In the Army I had the luxury of making a quick sensible fix to get a mission done. In reality the quick fix worked for the purpose but it was not the final solution. I would always take my fix back to the reps and tell them what I did so they could explore and make that a "standard" quick fix, but the real fix would have to be applied to ensure proper operation. The same thing applies here, if you suggest a great idea and I employ it against what the machine is designed to do and it causes failure, then that is on me. If my dealer does a fix just because a member of forum recommends it and it fails, who pays?

So again, to say what I meant to say, I hope my dealer continues to remained focused on the real fixes and not be out surfing the internet in hopes they can weed through thousands of post about a single topic that contradicts itself. I know my dealer calls other dealer wrenches and I'm not sure if they've talked to Lloyd or KevinX, but I do know that at my dealer Zebo is a crack tech on Vic's and Harley's and very well respected here in central Virginia. I get amused at the times I have gone into the dealer to either have someone talking to Zebo or calling in about their Harley at the Victory dealership, and we have one of the larger HD dealers on the east coast.