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Iron Butt
Posts: 802
| lowtone9 - 2012-10-07 6:11 AM
No, you should have had at least 50psi in the rear shock. The Vision is very sensitive to that adjustment, the only suspension adjustment you have. You were way too light on the front. Much better, on the rear, to have too much lift than not enough.That is incorrect according to Victory. Look inside your left bag and you'll find Victory's recommended pressures for particular loads. 50 psi is for a 400 lb load and our total load is less than that. I calculated it when determining the 40 psi I ran.
Marc |
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Cruiser
Posts: 140
| You and your passenger plus luggage are less than 400 lbs? Well, OK. The only time I've ever had trouble with the front pushing was when the rear shock needed some correction. |
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Iron Butt
Posts: 802
| MaddMAx2u - 2012-10-07 5:48 AM
Arkainzeye, just an FYI, motorcycle tires have rain grooves (tread design) that are expressly engineered to work together, in tandem, to sweep away the water effectively and provide the best grip in wet conditions. The front grooves work in partnership with the rear grooves. Mixing tires will cause a loss in the ability of the tires to sweep away the water in the most effective manner and will therefore cause a lower amount of traction in wet conditions. The same is true of the tire composition in both wet and dry weather. (Tire grooves are pretty meaningless in dry conditions). It's one of the reasons tire companies advise not to mix and match tires. Just sayin'
As a general rule not mixing tire types, design or manufacturer is good advice as far as handling and stability go but whether the particular syping of the front tire brand itself actually affects another brand's rear traction in the rain is a bit questionable to me. The job of the front sypes is to channel water out to the sides clearing a path for the tire patch and in the front tire's case, reduce the amount of water the rear has to deal with potentially increasing rear traction. The question is whether one particular brand's front syping design would be so different that it would significantly affect the syping of the rear tire. Certainly one design can be better than another so one front tire might move more water than another but to say just the fact that brands are mixed can cause reduced traction on the rear might be a bit of a stretch. The possibility is that if you installed a front tire with superior syping than the rear's normal counterpart you could even improve traction. I'm no tire engineer for sure so I'm just thinking out loud. Lots of guys run different fronts and rears and certainly nothing terrible happens. I think it really depends on the particular tires involved and the application they're used in. You wouldn't want to run a knobby at one end and a slick on the other probably and you might want to be very careful when messing around with mixing tires on a 200 mph MotoGP bike but under lesser circumstances you might just get away with it.
BTW, on my recent trip I followed a guy on a Wing for about 50 miles on Canadian twisties with a car tire on the rear. I was absolutely amazed at the amount of sidewall flex as he rolled from one side to the other almost to the extent that it looked like the tread was going to hit the bead. You would think the sidewall would overheat and fail eventually but in reality these guys run this way for thousands of miles and nothing happens. Its amazing how far out of the box modern technology lets us venture and get away with it.
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Iron Butt
Posts: 802
| lowtone9 - 2012-10-07 6:57 AM
You and your passenger plus luggage are less than 400 lbs? Well, OK. The only time I've ever had trouble with the front pushing was when the rear shock needed some correction.In our case we are right at 350 lbs total. I agree that dropping the rear too far can definitely effect handling in corners for no other reason that it increases the fork angle slightly which reduces turn-in. The amount/effect of weight transfer I'm not so sure about. On my '11 bike I installed 8 Ball springs, spacers and cartridges which dropped the front 1". The improvement in turn-in was noticeable besides the fact that it softened the ride tremendously. Be careful where you park it, though :-)
Marc |
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Cruiser
Posts: 140
| Oh yeah, I'm sure you're correct, especially if you've already dropped the front an inch. My experience on the 08 suggests, to me at least, that tne effect of just a few lbs is significant.
I underestimated my load weight once in the NC mountains, was starting to drag the rear tipover first, and came close to a low side in a very bad place. Not a great feeling! So I added pressure and then the tipovers were hitting together and pushing me straight across the lane, which is still not a great feeling, but better. It is not a sportbike. |
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Visionary
Posts: 4278
| when you lower the front know matter how you need a shorter kickstand |
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Iron Butt
Posts: 880
Orlando, FL | Arkainzeye - 2012-10-07 9:59 AM
@MaddMAx2U are you saying the rear tire can tell what front tire you have on the bike? the front tire is smaller than the rear so the water is it pushing away would be less of a contact patch than the rear anyways..
That is EXACTLY what I am saying. The design of the tread on the front and the design of the tread on the rear are engineered to work together pushing the water away from the tire. Talk to anyone that designs motorcycle tires. Most people won't notice a difference. But those who want the best traction especially in wet conditions will get it with PAIRED TIRES!
It's similar to the thought process of putting bias ply on the front of your car and radial on the rear. They are engineered and work differently. The handling would suffer when most needed. But for much of the day to day driving you would never notice. We all accept that. But people seem surprised that motorcycle tires do work in tandem. Tread, sidewall flex, composition, etc. And as technology gets better and better this becomes more and more important. Do you think they tell you to buy the same tire brand and tire type just to make a buck? Nope.
But hey, don't believe me. Check it out for yourself. Or just blow it off and keep your flip phone~!
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Visionary
Posts: 1308
Sand Rock, AL United States | I'm a longevity guy. It's E3's for me . I can't afford to replace tires all the time and I don't ride that aggressive and really respect wet roads (ride them carefully in corners). |
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Visionary
Posts: 1365
Central Maryland | jimtom - 2012-10-08 8:29 AM
I'm a longevity guy. It's E3's for me . I can't afford to replace tires all the time and I don't ride that aggressive and really respect wet roads (ride them carefully in corners).
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Tourer
Posts: 482
Beer Collins, Colorado (there is no fort) | I've put my share of miles on E3s and when new and compared to another new tire they're great-never had any issues in wet conditions other than some cattle guards, rail road tracks, & metal bridge expansion joints that I should have broke traction and coasted over-just a quick slip that reset my heart. I believe a tire doesn't show its true colors until its half life & beyond and that's where most of my issues with Dunlops occur. My issues with the tar snakes around here is a temperature thing-cool mornings no problem but when it gets hot they turn into gummy worms and mostly seem to effect the front wheel for me & make it interesting to pick a line through the corners to keep off 'em. Both my Vics have Avons on them. |
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Visionary
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Sand Rock, AL United States | I had the same quick slip on tar snakes out west and it only took one slip and I had a new found respect for them too.  |
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Iron Butt
Posts: 802
| ByteN2it - 2012-10-08 6:16 AM
I've put my share of miles on E3s and when new and compared to another new tire they're great-never had any issues in wet conditions other than some cattle guards, rail road tracks, & metal bridge expansion joints that I should have broke traction and coasted over-just a quick slip that reset my heart. I believe a tire doesn't show its true colors until its half life & beyond and that's where most of my issues with Dunlops occur. My issues with the tar snakes around here is a temperature thing-cool mornings no problem but when it gets hot they turn into gummy worms and mostly seem to effect the front wheel for me & make it interesting to pick a line through the corners to keep off 'em. Both my Vics have Avons on them.Just wondering if you could elaborate a bit on the differences between the Cobras and Dunlops:
How are they on slippery surfaces like tar snakes, rain?
How about handling? Do the Cobras turn in the same or feel different?
How about stability on the highway going straight? Does the Vision move around as much as it did with the Dunlops?
Are they quieter than the Dunlops when going around curves after they have 5K on them or so?
How does the mileage compare?
Anyone that has experience with Cobras and could give some feedback would be appreciated.
Marc |
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Tourer
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Beer Collins, Colorado (there is no fort) | I've only got a thousand miles on the Vision with Avon Cobras on it with just a couple of wet rides-very sure footed so far-no slips or wiggles, smooth & quite(trying Ride On for 1st time) and like all new tires the handling is great. I've ran Venom bias ply tires on my '99 V92C for many years after going through a couple of OEM Dulops, two sets of Metzler 880 Marathons (worst mileage ever 7,500 on each rear) and when I put the Venoms on it was like a big ol' sport bike & I love pushing it through the many canyons 'round here with confidence. Time will tell on the Cobras but for now I couldn't be happier. |
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Visionary
Posts: 1350
| Check your front end. I have rode in a far bit of rain.  Never felt any worse than the '99 and '03 V92Cs in it just heavier. I have a little over 5 lbs in the rear shock so both feet touch the ground.
Everyone has a different feel from experience. |
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Iron Butt
Posts: 802
| Received the Cobras and the rear is in fact heavy duty.  Marc
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Vision Riding In The Wet
