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Visionary
Posts: 3006
San Antonio, TX | These three messages were taken from another thread.
From: Blue Sky Guy
Ya know, I bought my new Vision last July and have ridden about 13k miles. I love the ride and the way she corners, but I still have problems with my slow speed turns, like bar lock U-turns. It's like I have a mental block. The arthritis in my neck doesn't help, but there must be a way. Any suggestions?
From: Radioteacher
Blue Sky Guy,
I used to be there too. The only way I fixed the lock to lock turning issue was to practice on it every day on the way home from work. When I go to work out there is one place to parallel part the vision but to do so I have to do a U-turn in 24 feet. The turn is not a problem. What is the boundary of the turn. It is not a painted line. On one side I have parked cars. The other side is a curb.
Try taking the Experienced Riders Course by the MSF. I did it last week end and learned a few things,
From: Magic
Hey, Radioteacher Paul,
Did you learn anything new at the advanced course or was it mainly a rehash and reinforcement of the basic course? I assume you took it out at the Shriner's Temple. I would like to take the advanced course, but I am hesitant about riding the "box" on my Vision. On someone else's 250, it was not much of a problem, but I really don't want to drop or drag my beauty. My lock-to-lock turns could use some work, for sure!
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Magic and Blue Sky Guy,
I have been riding since 1983 but have never taken any motorcycle course. A friend of mine at work mentioned the Experienced Riders Course by the MSF. It is taught at the Shriner's Temple on 1604 (In San Antonio). One coworker and I signed up for the course.
It starts at 7:00 AM. You do some paperwork and discuss what will be going on in the course. Before 8:00 AM we were on the range.
On the range we practiced weaving around cones, running over a 2x4 board, cornering, s-curves, a combination of cornering and s-curves, swerving, stopping, stopping in a turn, setting up for a turn and "The Box".
While the instructor was describing the Box I was surprised that the outline was white. I think the white box is 28 x 64 feet in size. I figured it would be the dashed green 24 x 60 foot box or the solid green 20 x 60 foot box. I asked if while riding if I could work on the green boxes an he said yes. I mentioned to the group that I might go down because I would be pushing it into the 20 foot wide box. They giggled but my friend did not since he knows how much I work on my cornering.
I ran the 28 foot wide white box on the first run through. It was boring.
Now the 24 foot green box was at least sporting, I did well on it. I think I missed it once.
On to the 20 foot wide box. This was tough but I am sure it would be easy if I practiced it more. I only made it two out of four runs.
On my third run in the 20 foot box, I went down. Too little power for too much lean angle, not enough turning. Bummer. Kill switch. Turn off the key. I let everyone know I was OK. Pick up the Vision. Put it on the kick stand. Mount, start, kickstand up and ride.
Unless you are under the Vision you will not see the scratches at all. It was not the first time I pushed the cornering envelope too far and will not be my last.
We did nine different exercises outside and finished just before the rain started. The whole class was over by 2:00 PM.
There are some things I learned wrong over the years that I am trying to correct since going to the ERC course.
I normally use only two fingers on the front brake not all four.
I do not always use both front and back brakes every time I brake. (One never knows when you need to go from braking to BRAKING!)
I do not down down shift to first gear, every single time, before I stop. This was very apparent during the course.
The course is only $55 so, Just Do It!
Ride Safe!
Edited by radioteacher 2009-05-19 2:31 PM
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Visionary
Posts: 2027
Brighton, TN | Good call, I couldn't agree more. Cept the two or four fingers, I normally use two and can pull just as hard with four, there is only so much force you can apply, anyway. I like to use the other fingers to hold the throttle and grip on the handlebars. but that is just me, no one take my advice, it is what I do. Both brakes all the time. Harley buddy only uses the front, never the rear. The only odd part about the Box was they had you practice with a larger box and test time you are in a smaller box. Strange!
Best part was you ride the majority of the class. The one I really enjoyed was the circle track with a S turn in it. Felt like i was a moto racer. Got to go as fast as I could. Yeehaw!! Never said pipe down and I just kept getting faster. |
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Visionary
Posts: 3006
San Antonio, TX | pollolittle,
I really enjoyed the circle track with the S turn in it as well. I was dragging the highway pegs in the corners and it made the instructor laugh. I thought that he would want me to slow down but he never mentioned it. At the first cross I was the first bike. In about three turns I caught the last bike and started backing off.
That was the best pattern of the day.
It was raining hard when I left the place to go home. Good thing I took my Frog Togs inside to finish the paperwork. |
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Cruiser
Posts: 203
Rapid City, SD | For the slow box turns the instructor in my ERC class suggested using the rear brake during these slow turns. When I did this I found the turns were much smoother. Now I don't have neck issues so it may not help. |
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Cruiser
Posts: 192
Republic of Tejas | af goalie - 2009-05-19 4:26 PM
For the slow box turns the instructor in my ERC class suggested using the rear brake during these slow turns. When I did this I found the turns were much smoother. Now I don't have neck issues so it may not help.
+1 on rear brake application and throttle / clutch control. I don't live too far from a MSF range and make it a point to go over there early on Saturday mornings before the heat and class start to practice once a month. All it takes are a few pass's to keep your skills sharp.
Ride Safe,
OG
Edited by OldGringo 2009-05-19 5:34 PM
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Visionary
Posts: 3006
San Antonio, TX | +1 on using the rear brake on the slow speed turns. I learned that by watching the "Ride like a Pro V" video. it is a great technique.
OldGringo, where do live in our Republic?
Ride Safe |
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Visionary
Posts: 2027
Brighton, TN | radioteacher, the other one I like was the one entrance and three exits. I made the closest exit in second gear, I really had to lean and shift a lot of weight to the inside, I was trying to drag a knee if that tells you anything.
I would like to know what the crotch rocket course is like. The instructors were saying they have a different course for them, I didn't have a chance to ask or maybe it is just they like to go faster than us cruisers. I would have liked to give them the opportunity.
WOuld also like to know more about the Ride like a Pro video, books, etc. Are they really that good?
For what it's worth, I'm also a Native Texan up in the greener areas of East Texas in Panola County. I'm just a transplant due to the military. But it's fun here too.
Edited by pollolittle 2009-05-19 10:08 PM
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Tourer
Posts: 377
O'Neill, Nebraska | How does the rear brake technique work? I'm not too far from the Shriner's Temple and would love to head back out there to give the 'box' a shot on the Vision. So far I've been paranoid, but have been really working on my counterbalancing at slow speeds.
Just curious about the rear brake. |
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Visionary
Posts: 2027
Brighton, TN | The only tip the instructors had for making that box was to "Sneek a Cheek" to the outside to shift the weight. I managed to do it without his technique, but I saw a few folks giving it a try and it working, just due to it being slow and able to keep the bike upright more. |
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Iron Butt
Posts: 732
Western WA | Radioteacher,
Interesting, I took an advanced rider's course a week ago Saturday. And, just like you I dropped the Vision in the figure 8 the second time through. I had a good laugh, dusted myself off, and went on with the day. Everyone was worried about the damage I did to the bike until I explained the tip-over system.
Not an hour later, the guy on the 105th Anniversary HD Glide with tons of extra chrome - he dropped his bike during the 'swerve and emergency stop' part of the class. Ouch. Lots of damage there. Bent pegs, bars, etc.
Did I mention how much I love the Vision?
I would suggest to anyone to take the class. We can all learn something, and break some bad habits that we've developed. It 'puts your mind back in the game' so to speak.
Edited by Breaker 2009-05-19 11:38 PM
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Tourer
Posts: 329
scotts valley, California | Thanks Radioteacher; it's nice to know that I am not alone.
Actually I took the "Ride Like a Pro" class in the LA area right after I bought the vision. In fact the trip down to LA was just about my maiden voyage. It cost an extra few dollars to rent one of their Kawasaki 1000 ex-police bikes. At the time I thought the extra few bucks would be worth not banging up my new vision. But, fact is, I only dropped the Kawasaki once and that was when I stepped off of it without putting down the kickstand! duh.....
HOWEVER handeling the vision in the same manouvers, same technique, turned out to be a greater challange than I thought. Were I to do it over again, I would use the Vision for the class. I know that you are right about practice, and now thirteen thousand miles later, I don't think dropping it a couple of times will make a big difference. I just need to get over my paranoia. |
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Cruiser
Posts: 192
Republic of Tejas | radioteacher - 2009-05-19 8:47 PM
+1 on using the rear brake on the slow speed turns. I learned that by watching the "Ride like a Pro V" video. it is a great technique.
OldGringo, where do live in our Republic?
Ride Safe
RT, I'm in Southwest Houston area. I utilize the Republic HD Riders Edge range just South of me in Richmond. I just missed you and your two amigos out in the hill country by one week. I was on the sisters the 20th of April.
Regards,
OG
p.s. red your post on Two Wheeled Texans the other day as well ;-)
Edited by OldGringo 2009-05-20 7:23 PM
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Tourer
Posts: 550
Tacoma, WA | I agree wholeheartedly with the ERC. I have taken it three times over the last few years, and it is always a fun course. I practice my lock turns in the driveway nearly every day. We have a three-car driveway, and when a car is in either end lane, I manage a u-turn to back into my stall anyway, easily. I have had to use a u-turn on the road once, two up. I was on 509 out of Fereral way, and someone had gone off the edge, and down the ravine, so police had the road blocked to get a tow truck in there and pull him out. So I had to do a u-turn with my sweetie on back with the road at a banked angle. Nice to have the confidence to do that when needed. -----Metalguy |
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Visionary
Posts: 3006
San Antonio, TX | pollolittle,
The "Ride Like a Pro V" is a complete training video. You do not need to buy videos I - IV. It is well worth the money. I want to take the course as well.
OldGringo,
I want to go to Houston and take the "Ride Like a Pro" course. It might have to wait until next year. I wondered if anyone read those posts on twtex.com. I am just trying to spread the word about the brand. What can I say, I love my Victory Vision.
spursmvp,
For me, I think that what makes you go down in a slow tight curve is lack of power. By running the engine at about 2000 rpm, dragging the back brake and adjusting the clutch for speed you can better regulate the power to the back wheel. If you are going down add power. It takes practice. I practiced in front of my house tonight and did better then at the range on Saturday.
Ride Safe |
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Cruiser
Posts: 69
| I definately need to work on this, particularly w/only 1000 miles on the new dream boat. I've taken the basic course and intend to take the advanced but like others I'm concerned about dropping her. So far the main difficulty for me in this area is when she's not running. The front end moves very easily to a full lock position and if I'm backing up or trying to squeeze into a parking spot it's easy to let it swing too far and lose balance/control. Thanks for bringing this up--I'll remember to practice.
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Puddle Jumper
Posts: 13
Lebanon, PA | The Ride Like a Pro video is an excellent training tool. Before buying my Vision I had an Ultra that I dropped not lkess then 5 times and all during slow tight turns. Drag that rear brake and ride the clutch in the friction zone and you'll do fine. The Vision is so balanced I'm not 100% sure if it's technique or a perfect motorcycle. One of these days I'll try a friend's "Classic American Motorcycle" to test my new skills. |
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Visionary
Posts: 8144
New Bohemia, VA | radioteacher - 2009-05-19 9:47 PM +1 on using the rear brake on the slow speed turns. I learned that by watching the "Ride like a Pro V" video. it is a great technique. OldGringo, where do live in our Republic? Ride Safe  I learned to use only the rear brake in slow turns WITHOUT watching the "Ride like a Pro" videos. Just don't ask me how I learned though. 
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Visionary
Posts: 3204
Memphis | I'm a big fan of the "Ride Like a Pro" series and when it came time to teach my kids (ages 19 & 21) how to ride the Vision we spent a couple of hours in a parking lot, never getting above 2nd gear. The first thing I said was "The fastest way in the world to drop this bike in a slow turn is to look down, pull in the clutch and tap the front brake. You are guaranteed to go down." "Here's what we are going to do instead: Keep your head up, use the rear brake only, and let out the clutch when you feel like it's going to fall. A lot of the time you will be letting out the clutch and pressing on the rear brake at the same time to keep it balanced." At the end of the two hours, they were having a contest to see who could throw the tightest 360. Nobody dropped the bike. Amazing.
Edited by SongFan 2009-05-21 5:50 PM
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Visionary
Posts: 3006
San Antonio, TX | Yesterday, I was telling someone in a meeting about the ERC. I talked about dragging the highway pegs. His computer background had a Road King on it.
When we broke for lunch they asked where to go and I said follow me. They asked if I wanted to ride with them. The weather was perfect and I said "No! I am not sitting in a cage on this beautiful day."
When we parked (Their car and my Vision) I showed him my scratches on the ends of the highway pegs from dragging them around the course.
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Lock to Lock U-turns and Figure 8's and ERC
