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Tourer
Posts: 447
Cleveland, GA | I just added cams and a VFC controller to my 08 VV. Here's the dyno for it. Nice torque line; peaks early and stays pretty level after that. The hp isn't as high as some folks here, but I have the stock pipes on it. I'm not too concerned about top end, anyway - I never checked out the top speed before the new cams. I like the torque and smoothness. Still haven't had a chance to put it on the road for more than about five miles. Soon, though!
(vision 460cam pcv allstock.jpg)
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 vision 460cam pcv allstock.jpg (87KB - 6 downloads)
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Visionary
Posts: 1632
Jasper, MO | Nice smooth curves. Dynos vary one from another, and I can't tell from your chart whether the results are measured in STD or SAE or whether they are corrected or raw, so your readings may be as good as everybody else's. That torque curve looks good anyway. I bet you can feel it.
The stock exhaust isn't causing any power loss, contrary to popular opinion and the sales pitches of the aftermarket pipe sellers. Do you have the intake plate added? It will help the power.
Ronnie
Edited by rdbudd 2011-08-06 3:21 PM
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Visionary
Posts: 3773
Pittsburgh, PA | i dont think i ever heard of a cammed vision with stock pipes.. im shocked... do the stock pipes let out enough exhaust quick enough? i guess so...? |
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Visionary
Posts: 1359
New Bohemia, Va | how many miles you rollin' at now? I think I owe you a phone call. Glad to hear you upgraded. |
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Cruiser
Posts: 111
Salina, KS | Nice! I got an appointment with LLoyd in a couple of weeks, can't wait! |
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Tourer
Posts: 447
Cleveland, GA | @Cap'n Nemo - Sitting at 45,000. Haven't been on it for a couple of months. Left it in the shop for two months while I was at Fort Lewis, helping with ROTC summer camp. Just got back Thurs night and picked up the bike Friday. Unfortunately, I had to put it on the trailer almost immediately. I'll get it off and rolling in a few days. Can't wait! I'm jonesing for two wheels in the wind!
@tony - I had mine done at my local dealer in Birmingham, AL. Good folks there, and got a good price on it, too.
@Arkainzeye - I knew it would have less horsepower and top end, but that the torque would be good. My wife likes the sound of the stock pipes... and she's the reason I bought the bike in the first place! |
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Tourer
Posts: 447
Cleveland, GA | @rdbudd - No intake plate. Just the upgraded air filter I've been running for about a year. |
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Visionary
Posts: 1632
Jasper, MO | Arkainzeye - 2011-08-06 4:43 PM
i dont think i ever heard of a cammed vision with stock pipes.. im shocked... do the stock pipes let out enough exhaust quick enough? i guess so...?
I think you're pulling my leg, but just in case anyone is wondering about the capability of the stock pipes that come on a Vision, here are a few dyno charts using them. I like stealth bombers.
http://www.lloydz.com/dyno.asp 110 Horsepower (cheap and easy, like mine)
http://www.lloydz.com/dyno.asp 122 Horsepower
http://www.lloydz.com/dyno.asp 137 Horsepower
Well, those links didn't work right. Just scroll down to the bottom right hand side of the page and look at them for yourself.
Ronnie
Edited by rdbudd 2011-08-07 9:25 PM
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Visionary
Posts: 3773
Pittsburgh, PA | So it looks like on the charts that with a higher flowing exhaust allows for more horsepower over stock pipes.? |
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Visionary
Posts: 1632
Jasper, MO | Which charts are you looking at? I did not see any where the ONLY change was from stock to aftermarket exhaust, so that comparison can't be made. The ones I see combine two or three other changes at the same time as an aftermarket exhaust, so you can't give the credit just to the aftermarket exhaust. The stock exhaust was used on the 116 inch build with cams, valve job, fuel controller, and reprogrammed ECU, and it makes 137+ horsepower. I don't think the stock exhaust is very restrictive. It's very well designed. Change it if you want a different sound. Look at Lloyd's description of this package. http://www.lloydz.com/
I used to play with sport bikes a long time ago, and even had my own dyno. We found that most of the increased performance claims from the aftermarket pipe makers were just a lot of hot air. The performance increases came from other changes (different jetting, different carbs, different timing) made at the same time. Any performance increase from an aftermarket pipe came from the lighter weight, not from better breathing. But, hey, everybody knows that loud = fast, right?
Ronnie |
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Tourer
Posts: 447
Cleveland, GA | Both KevinX and my dealer told me that I wouldn't get as much horsepower boost out of the cam job with bone stock pipes as I would with upgrades, but that the torque would still be really nice and that I would definitely feel the change.
They were right about feeling the change! I finally got to play with the bike today, taking the twisties to work. I like it a lot! Now, since I don't wick it up to lightspeed, I don't get the bug-eating grin that others have reported, but I can sure feel the oomph when powering through the curves. And I find that I get up to the speed limit a whole lot faster! This mod made a great bike even greaterer.
Now I'll have to check out my fuel mileage and see if it actually goes up as advertised or if the savings dissipate with a twist of the wrist... |
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Iron Butt
Posts: 612
| Lone Ranger - 2011-08-06 7:59 PM
@rdbudd - No intake plate. Just the upgraded air filter I've been running for about a year.
Without putting in a Ness or Lloydz filter in lieu of the top plate, you are leaving a LOT on the table. It's not able to breath. |
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Tourer
Posts: 432
Gettysburg, 2008 Tour Premium | The one problem in qualifying performance is how we measure it. There are three basic methods and only one is absolute. They are 1) dyno 2) drag strip and 3) top speed on a calibrated course. Of all of those the top speed test serves as the final word hence we have Bonneville. Next is the drag strip but the rider plays a big part in the result. Klock Werks ran a bone stock engine Vision at Bonneville and ran 120 - 121 MPH. No intake plate and no exhaust. Dont get me wrong I am not saying performance accessories do not do anything, they do affect throttle response. You can see the result on a dyno but how this affects top speed is never that easy. Cams, compression and cubes are the 3 C's that are undeniably the major player when it comes to HP and top speed. |
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Visionary
Posts: 1632
Jasper, MO | Turk - 2011-08-12 7:46 AM
Lone Ranger - 2011-08-06 7:59 PM
@rdbudd - No intake plate. Just the upgraded air filter I've been running for about a year.
Without putting in a Ness or Lloydz filter in lieu of the top plate, you are leaving a LOT on the table. It's not able to breath.
Yep. The stock front air intake system, with it's long intake tract, does limit the air flow. It's a little restrictive. Adding Lloyd's, or a Ness, top plate filter lets more air in.
The stock quiet exhaust has already been proven to flow well enough to handle cammed 116 inch motors that produce 137+ rear wheel horsepower. I don't believe it is causing any restriction on cammed 106 motors at 110, or 120 horsepower. The only reason to change it is to make more noise, which is fine if that's what you're after. I like sneaking up on the Goldwings and passing them, quietly, looking and sounding 100% stock, and without my ears ringing after a long day's ride.
Many loud pipes may show a slight HP increase at high RPM, but a loss of torque at low RPM. On a heavy touring bike you want a flat torque curve from just off idle all the way to the redline, and that's what you've got with the stock pipes.
Laura Klock's Vision that she ran at Bonneville was bone stock, including the speed limiter. The top speed was limited by the speed limiter and can easily be reached by any stock Vision. There have been stock Visions that had the speed limiter "tricked", but were otherwise stock, that have exceeded Laura's Bonneville speeds.
Ronnie
Edited by rdbudd 2011-08-13 7:42 PM
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Visionary
Posts: 3773
Pittsburgh, PA | i was wondering what exactly changed and why there is a differences between the 2008 cams vs the 2009 and up cams? |
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Tourer
Posts: 447
Cleveland, GA | Arkainzeye - 2011-08-13 9:11 PM i was wondering what exactly changed and why there is a differences between the 2008 cams vs the 2009 and up cams? If I'm not mistaken, the 2008 was a two-piece and the '09 was a one-piece. The '08 is easier to take out. |
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Visionary
Posts: 1632
Jasper, MO | Lone Ranger - 2011-08-13 11:17 PM
Arkainzeye - 2011-08-13 9:11 PM i was wondering what exactly changed and why there is a differences between the 2008 cams vs the 2009 and up cams? If I'm not mistaken, the 2008 was a two-piece and the '09 was a one-piece.? The '08 is easier to take out.
The cam carriers were changed in '09 to streamline manufacturing, which meant that to use the VM1 cams in an '09 or later required a change back to the '08 carriers. The new Lloydz VM1-DR cams are the exact same grind as the original VM1, but they work with the '09 and later carriers. Bottom line? Get the VM1 for the 2008 model bikes, or the VM1-DR for the 2009 or later bikes and no carrier changes are needed during the cam change.
They are the same cam profile, just for different carrier designs.
Somebody will correct me if I'm wrong, but that's how I understand it.
Ronnie |
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Cruiser
Posts: 141
| Lone Ranger I have stock pipes but drilled a hole in the front plate . The bike is still quite but has a deeper note. That plate is appox 26 inches in the muffler. That may or may not increase the curves but sounds good. |
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Visionary
Posts: 4278
| here is a photo of the stock baffle in our vision pipes. Inlet is on the right or I'll the right side bolts to the header<br />
Edited by john frey 2011-08-14 6:05 PM
(Baffles1.JPG)
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Baffles1.JPG (76KB - 0 downloads)
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Tourer
Posts: 432
Gettysburg, 2008 Tour Premium | Larger or 'less restrictive' intakes ultimately do not increase real world horsepower but will allow a more responsive throttle response. Let me restate that..... As long as the unrestricted air flow through the throttle bodies is not less than the cubic feet per min. air flow through the air filter the intake tunnel or in our case the air horn within the tunnel will not significantly reduce HP unless it flows less than the throttle bodies themselves. I am not saying the modified intake plate from Ness or Lloyd cannot be shown to increase performance on a dyno or in 1/4 mile times but it would be interesting to see if they affect top speed. The factor that changes is time and time is pretty much irrelevant to top speed runs. Most modern engines have throttle body (or carb bore) diameter and design as the limiting factor. Big inch Harleys are somewhat the exception seeing they are taking such extreme steps to deal with noise but Joe Minton still looks for other ways to extract HP than modified intakes.
Edited by wroman 2011-08-14 7:02 PM
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Tourer
Posts: 575
Spirit Lake IA "Birthplace of Victory Motorcycles" | Go mine cammed today! It is running NICE! http://www.vision-riders.com/bb/forums/thread-view.asp?tid=9591&pos... |
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Tourer
Posts: 575
Spirit Lake IA "Birthplace of Victory Motorcycles" | Oh wow, 500th post . . . Jeff do I get a t-shirt or something?? |
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Visionary
Posts: 2118
Pitt Meadows, BC Canada | ME TOO ... ME TOO
C'mon, Jeff
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Visionary
Posts: 2118
Pitt Meadows, BC Canada | donetracey - 2011-08-19 10:33 PM ME TOO ... ME TOO C'mon, Jeff Sorry - I already "got cammed" I just wanted the T-Shirt or whatever for my zillion boring posts ... I mean exciting posts ... or |
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Got cammed
