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Cruiser
Posts: 52
Spokane, WA | I sold my 2009 Vision a while back, but I'm considering coming back into the fold with a 2012.
Does anyone know for sure whether Victory will offer a reverse kit for the 2012? The reason I ask is that the 2012 accessories catalog only lists 08-11 for the reverse kit, and I've seen a couple of guys ask the same question elsewhere.
All in all, I'm not thrilled with the new stripped-down Vision Tour, but I guess if I spend enough money on it I can get it back to the same level of shine I had on the 2009. I sold the '09 Vision when I bought my 2012 Goldwing this spring.
Anyway, our BMW K1200LT and our GL1800 both have electric reverse... I can't see Victory going backwards on this one, but then again they have been stripping the bike down as they go. It's now considerably less money than the Cross Country Tour. Go figure...
Thanks,
--jim
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Puddle Jumper
Posts: 48
East Tennessee | For the amount of money you pay for a Vision, it should have the electric reverse. I miss having that after owning a GL1800 |
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Tourer
Posts: 337
san antonio, tx | Yes, it's an option for the 2012s, but the Victory site lists them as temporarily unavailable for any model year.
http://www.purepolaris.com/en-us/Victory/Pages/Detail.aspx?ItemID=2... |
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Cruiser
Posts: 52
Spokane, WA | Ok, thanks. That helps.
The website config tool has only a subset of the available options, and the accessories catalog lists options that should be standard features. Victory marketing has some serious work to do. Very frustrating. I've been trying to configure a bike, but it doesn't appear to be possible to do without having the specific bike in hand, since the dealer can't say with any certainty what's standard and what isn't.
Maybe the picture will get clearer as we get closer to spring.
--jim
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Visionary
Posts: 1632
Jasper, MO | CorvettePoor - 2011-10-07 10:03 PM
For the amount of money you pay for a Vision, it should have the electric reverse. I miss having that after owning a GL1800
I agree. Reverse on a bike of this class should be standard equipment. It should also come with a centerstand that will not lose any cornering clearance and will lift the wheel free of the ground. They could copy the design of the old Kawasaki Voyager XII two-stage stand. It used two levers and a cam arrangement to pop the heavy bike up effortlessly. Mine worked great.
Ronnie |
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Tourer
Posts: 337
san antonio, tx | rdbudd - 2011-10-08 9:29 AM
I agree. Reverse on a bike of this class should be standard equipment. It should also come with a centerstand that will not lose any cornering clearance and will lift the wheel free of the ground. They could copy the design of the old Kawasaki Voyager XII two-stage stand. It used two levers and a cam arrangement to pop the heavy bike up effortlessly. Mine worked great.
Ronnie
I dunno.... just because something is "standard", doesn't mean it's free. It's just added to the base price.
There are a lot of things I'd "like" on my bike. Reverse is one of them and I did consider having it added when I bought it. In the end though, the cost/benefit ratio wasn't right for me, at this time. Same thing with a few other options that some consider should be standard on this level of bike.
In the end, I feel I got very good value without having to pay a lot of extra money for things I can easily live without. There was NO other bike out there that offered the features, performance, reliability, and level of comfort and convenience anywhere near the price I paid.
I do agree that their sales and marketing departments could be much better.
Edited by cchristo 2011-10-08 10:34 AM
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Visionary
Posts: 1632
Jasper, MO | Of course "standard equipment" is added to the base price. The Vision is in the price and quality class of the Goldwing, which has standard reverse and center stand. I know that Victory does not advertise the Vision as a competitor to the Goldwing, instead directing their advertising towards Harley owners, but there are many previous/current Honda owners who now ride a Vision. I have had many Goldwing riders show interest in the Vision, but two of the reasons many give for not making the switch is the lack of standard reverse and center stand. Surely, making them "standard equipment" would reduce the cost per unit due to the economy of scale.
Power reverse on a 900 pound luxury touring bike is one of those things you never knew you needed....until you've once had it, kind of like a power adjustable windshield and a true overdrive transmission. Once you've become accustomed to having them, it's very noticeable when you don't have them.
I believe, after talking to several Goldwing riders who were on the fence about the Vision, that including standard power reverse and a center stand would bring a lot of them into the fold. Especially if Victory would use Lloydz cam technology to bring the stock Vision power level up to or beyond that of the Goldwing too. A redesign of the Vision's saddlebags would clench the deal for many.
The relatively smaller Vision saddlebags (compared to the Goldwing) and the lack of reverse are the two most often cited reasons for not switching to a Vision from a Goldwing. Victory is missing an opportunity to increase market share by not including reverse standard.
I also feel like I got a very good value for my money with the Vision. I was in the market for either a new Goldwing or a new Vision in 2008. I chose the Vision. The only thing I miss having is the reverse.
Ronnie
Edited by rdbudd 2011-10-09 1:19 PM
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Tourer
Posts: 337
san antonio, tx | $23890.00 for the base 2012 Goldwing, $21499.00 for the 2012 Vision. $2391.00 difference. Add a reverse to it and it's still nearly a grand less. Throw in the center stand and it's a few hundred less. That's not including any discounts or promotions of course.
Get to the level that includes ABS (something I've only actually used once, and hope to never again) and it shows the list for the GW at 27,900.00.
For nearly $28,000.00, I could dress up my Vision with an awful lot of goodies still have cash left over. (Cams, exhaust, GPS, XM, Intercom, and probably a few other things too.
I'm not slamming the GW at all. I've came close to pulling the trigger on one several times. My wife actually prefers the passenger accomodations over the VV by a large margin. Great touring bike but from my perspective not nearly as comfortable for me, and we don't do a huge amount of long distance two up riding.
Again, I think it goes back to the marketing issue more than the actual features, options, and pricing lists.
With the introduction of the Cross Country, I think Victory became a much more viable and direct competitor to the high end touring Harleys.
Where does that position the Vision in the grand marketing scheme now? Seems to me it's always been more aligned with the GW and BMW crowd than the HD traditionalists anyways.
Victory marketing needs to get their head in the game.
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Cruiser
Posts: 52
Spokane, WA | I can see how this could turn into a VV vs GW vs BMW thread... I agree they're better comparisons than VV vs HD, and since I currently own a new GW and a BMW and have recently owned a VV, I could spend some time on it. :-)
Instead of doing that, my advice to anyone doing Victory marketing is simple - get it together. The generic TV promos are fun and well-done, but it's virtually IMPOSSIBLE for anyone (including dealers) to configure a bike offline, then order the bike and the add-ons based on an agreed-to build sheet. Why does it matter? Because I already know what I want. I just need someone to tell me what it will cost and when I can expect delivery. The rest is just annoying BS, and I don't have the desire to spend the time (money) on it.
My .02 USD, adjust for local currency as appropriate.
--jim
cchristo - 2011-10-09 12:13 PM
$23890.00 for the base 2012 Goldwing, $21499.00 for the 2012 Vision. $2391.00 difference. Add a reverse to it and it's still nearly a grand less. Throw in the center stand and it's a few hundred less. That's not including any discounts or promotions of course.
Get to the level that includes ABS (something I've only actually used once, and hope to never again) and it shows the list for the GW at 27,900.00.
For nearly $28,000.00, I could dress up my Vision with an awful lot of goodies still have cash left over. (Cams, exhaust, GPS, XM, Intercom, and probably a few other things too.
I'm not slamming the GW at all. I've came close to pulling the trigger on one several times. My wife actually prefers the passenger accomodations over the VV by a large margin. Great touring bike but from my perspective not nearly as comfortable for me, and we don't do a huge amount of long distance two up riding.
Again, I think it goes back to the marketing issue more than the actual features, options, and pricing lists.
With the introduction of the Cross Country, I think Victory became a much more viable and direct competitor to the high end touring Harleys.
Where does that position the Vision in the grand marketing scheme now? Seems to me it's always been more aligned with the GW and BMW crowd than the HD traditionalists anyways.
Victory marketing needs to get their head in the game.
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Puddle Jumper
Posts: 48
East Tennessee | rdbudd - 2011-10-09 2:07 PM Of course "standard equipment" is added to the base price. The Vision is in the price and quality class of the Goldwing, which has standard reverse and center stand. I know that Victory does not advertise the Vision as a competitor to the Goldwing, instead directing their advertising towards Harley owners, but there are many previous/current Honda owners who now ride a Vision. I have had many Goldwing riders show interest in the Vision, but two of the reasons many give for not making the switch is the lack of standard reverse and center stand. Surely, making them "standard equipment" would reduce the cost per unit due to the economy of scale. Power reverse on a 900 pound luxury touring bike is one of those things you never knew you needed....until you've once had it, kind of like a power adjustable windshield and a true overdrive transmission. Once you've become accustomed to having them, it's very noticeable when you don't have them. I believe, after talking to several Goldwing riders who were on the fence about the Vision, that including standard power reverse and a center stand would bring a lot of them into the fold. Especially if Victory would use Lloydz cam technology to bring the stock Vision power level up to or beyond that of the Goldwing too. A redesign of the Vision's saddlebags would clench the deal for many. The relatively smaller Vision saddlebags (compared to the Goldwing) and the lack of reverse are the two most often cited reasons for not switching to a Vision from a Goldwing. Victory is missing an opportunity to increase market share by not including reverse standard. I also feel like I got a very good value for my money with the Vision. I was in the market for either a new Goldwing or a new Vision in 2008. I chose the Vision. The only thing I miss having is the reverse. Ronnie Well said, Ronnie |
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Tourer
Posts: 494
Akron Ohio area | Interestingly, the new 1600 BMW no longer has a center-stand. |
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Cruiser
Posts: 52
Spokane, WA | bigfoot - 2011-10-09 4:51 PM
Interestingly, the new 1600 BMW no longer has a center-stand.
Which is one (albeit a small one) of the reasons I'm keeping my 2005 K1200LT instead of "upgrading" to the K1600GLT. The 1600 doesn't have the electro-hydraulic center stand, nor is electric reverse available. (option or not)
I'm batting 1000 this year. ;-)
--jim
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Tourer
Posts: 554
2 mi from Jim Beam n KY | Each model year VV needs a software change for the reverse kit. The 2011 software came out at the end of the model year.
As I understand it.......... |
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Cruiser
Posts: 52
Spokane, WA | Just to put a dot on it, here's the guts of an email I received from Polaris when I asked about the availability of a reverse kit for the 2012 Vision:
"The information you are asking about is proprietary information and is not available to the public. Please contact your local authorized Polaris dealer for the most updated information that is available."
I can sum up my reaction in two words: "Oh brother."  |
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2012 Vision reverse kit?
