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Iron Butt
Posts: 612
| Has anyone tried these?
3157/3156 HIGH POWER SAMSUNG LED RED TURN SIGNAL BRAKE TAIL STOP LIGHT BULBS
http://www.ebay.com/itm/3157-3156-HIGH-POWER-SAMSUNG-LED-RED-TURN-S...
Edited by Turk 2013-05-21 10:12 AM
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Cruiser
Posts: 60
Vancouver, B.C. & La Quinta, CA | Do they fit for the Vision? |
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Iron Butt
Posts: 612
| DAL - 2013-05-25 12:32 AM
Do they fit for the Vision?
If you get the 3157 base, fitment shouldn't be an issue. I was more concerned with intensity.
However, in another thread, I posted that I found some red 120 LED 3157 bulbs for dirt cheap, so I ordered them instead. |
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Visionary
Posts: 4278
| we do not have the proper red lens for LED's so they will be bright but not like the cars
that photo looked like lights for gauges not for taillights |
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Iron Butt
Posts: 612
| I bought the Samsung 22LED 7watt switchback LEDs for the front. I like the way they work much better than the 120 SMD LEDs I had in for a few weeks. The 120s had too much blue tint to them for my liking. Also, the switchback feature was strange, basically, turning off the white/blue LEDs completely, then flashing the ambers. Then, upon turn signal cancellation, there would be a brief pause with no light, before the white LEDs come back on.
These Samsung's don't do that. They simply alternate between colors while in blink mode. There is no "off pause". Also, they are MUCH MUCH brighter than the 120s I was using (bought off of Ebay).
I am still awaiting the 120 SMD LEDs from China that I ordered from Ebay. I also have a couple of the red version of the Samsung 22LED super brights that I plan to test alongside the 120s when they arrive.
Additionally, I have not installed any load equalizers. I have GLIGHTON's sequencing harnesses both front and back, so maybe that has something to do with it, but so far, with the front LEDs, blinking is normal (sequenced).
I'm curious to find out how the rears will work on the sequencing harness without load equalizers. But, just in case, I have a couple handy.
Edited by Turk 2013-06-10 7:28 AM
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Cruiser
Posts: 143
Lexington Park, MD | Turk - 2013-06-10 8:27 AM
I bought the Samsung 22LED 7watt switchback LEDs for the front. I like the way they work much better than the 120 SMD LEDs I had in for a few weeks. The 120s had too much blue tint to them for my liking. Also, the switchback feature was strange, basically, turning off the white/blue LEDs completely, then flashing the ambers. Then, upon turn signal cancellation, there would be a brief pause with no light, before the white LEDs come back on.
These Samsung's don't do that. They simply alternate between colors while in blink mode. There is no "off pause". Also, they are MUCH MUCH brighter than the 120s I was using (bought off of Ebay).
I actually bought the 120SMTs from autoillumination because of the alternating Amber/Off then back to Cool white LED... It is GREAT that were getting options. Hats of for doing the testing Turk! Refering to the brightness, I am not sure about the ones you had from Ebay but mine from AI are bright! Cool white at 6500 I think is the color. Will be doing a HID headlight upgrade later this year to bring my headlight up to similar color for my cool white LED V for vicotry! hehe
Turk - 2013-06-10 8:27 AM
I am still awaiting the 120 SMD LEDs from China that I ordered from Ebay. I also have a couple of the red version of the Samsung 22LED super brights that I plan to test alongside the 120s when they arrive.
This is the info I am waiting on. Refering back to my test of the 60LED red LED wide patterns from AI, I was sorley dissapointed with their brightness especially at only about 6 bucks less each then the 120's.. Also had 1 fail shortly after install. In the name of science.. lol... They will find their way onto my 04TC before years end.
Turk - 2013-06-10 8:27 AM
Additionally, I have not installed any load equalizers. I have GLIGHTON's sequencing harnesses both front and back, so maybe that has something to do with it, but so far, with the front LEDs, blinking is normal (sequenced).
I'm curious to find out how the rears will work on the sequencing harness without load equalizers. But, just in case, I have a couple handy. Again more good info. Currently the 60's on mine did require the equalizer but wont know about the brake lights using the red 120's until I get the last two installed... Gotta redirect some finanaces that way. Anyway, thanks agian for keeping us posted. I for one am interested and following this bro. Thanks for the testing and evaluation!
Safe ridin! Tim |
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Iron Butt
Posts: 612
| The Chinese bulbs finally arrived, so I gave them a quick test in the two front outer blinker positions for ease of access. In a nutshell, I'm not impressed. I put one of the red Samsungs bulb in one side, and the 120 Chinese bulb in the other. While they both appear similar in brightness, the Samsung had a noticeably better red color. The bulbs shipped straight from China had an orange hue to the red. Also, one of the bulbs' connectors is screwed up and is effectively not functional. I think if I actually do this, I'll get 4 more of the Samsung bulbs.
Also, there are two methods in the book for tear down to access the light assembly. When I did the wiring harness, I remember doing the more extensive tear down. However, if doing just the bulbs, is the abbreviated process workable?
Thanks. |
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Cruiser
Posts: 143
Lexington Park, MD | Yes, open saddlebags, remove license plate, remove the bottom trim 2hex around each exhaust and 2 on bottom center, remove the M and your at the 5 bolts for the V. I was even able to do some alterternative wiring while in there. |
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Iron Butt
Posts: 612
| I'm still waiting for a rainy day to do the tail light experiment with the red LEDs I have.
However, for whatever reason, on the front signals, the two outboard LEDs flicker incessantly. The two inboard ones do not. All four LEDs are identical, and I'm using Gary's sequencing harness, They don't flicker when I turn the key on before the engine fires, but once the engine starts, they begin to flicker in running light mode. Either they are bad, or it's time to find somewhere to tap in my two load equalizers.
Edited by Turk 2013-06-13 7:35 AM
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Iron Butt
Posts: 612
| Update: I connected one of the 50watt 6 ohm load equalizer that I purchased last week, and while it did seem to cure the flicker, it generated way too much heat.... because my thought process was flawed in terms of resistance and heat. My thinking was that a low resistance device would generate less heat! WRONG! The higher the resistance, the less current flows across it, and the less heat generated. These LEDs don't need much resistance to still let the turn signal module know that there is a completed circuit. So, I ordered some 100ohm 10 watt units (which at 14.5 volts will dissipate about 2 watts of current), and I'm looking at some 220ohm resistors, that should only shed off about 1watt of heat. Whereas those 6ohm 50watt units were sucking down 35 watts of current! YIKES! The trick is to siphon off the least amount of current that will do the job. The higher the resistance, the less current is bled off, and less heat generated. The wattage value is merely an assessment of the resistors ability to shed heat before it destroys itself. It has nothing to do with how much current is drained, and is not related to the wattage of the bulbs you are replacing. Learned something new from one of our electronic engineers here at work.
Oh, and the Ebay vendor is sending me two replacement bulbs to try out also....
Edited by Turk 2013-06-13 1:53 PM
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Iron Butt
Posts: 752
Broken Arrow, OK | David, the only time I had heat on the load equalizer was when I had a bad wire connection. With the key switch on, I had one amber and one white 120 bulb, a sure giveaway something was wrong.
After making solid wire connections, using the 120 switchbacks in all 4 bulb sockets, my 50W load equalizers aren't even warm to the touch. |
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Iron Butt
Posts: 612
| okie vision - 2013-06-13 2:03 PM
David, the only time I had heat on the load equalizer was when I had a bad wire connection. With the key switch on, I had one amber and one white 120 bulb, a sure giveaway something was wrong.
After making solid wire connections, using the 120 switchbacks in all 4 bulb sockets, my 50W load equalizers aren't even warm to the touch.
You are probably routing your resistors between ground and your turn signal wires to tell your flasher that there's no bulb out. That means it only siphons current when the signal is on. If you haven't had it on, there will be no heat. Leave your turn signals on and see how hot it gets.
My flasher rate was normal probably because I'm using the sequencing harness, so that isn't where I had my resistor. I was using it in an attempt to mitigate the flickering caused by lack of current through the running light side of the circuit. I researched LEDs and it seems that in some cases, some of them can flicker because of minor voltage spikes and dips caused by lack of a completed circuit through these LEDs. Using a resistor to partially complete the circuit can calm these spikes.... but, since it's on the running light side, it's always on, contrary to the turn signal lines. Make sense?
Still, for the turn signal side alone, I think pulling 35 watts is too much. The original turn signal bulbs were only pulling 10watts (and only one per side), so thats all you really need to make up for. A 20 ohm resistor should work just fine in your case, and generate 1/3rd the heat when the flasher is on.
Edited by Turk 2013-06-13 2:30 PM
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Visionary
Posts: 1229
Rancho Cucamonga, CA | Autoluminations must think that's a good idea as well...
(LED protector.jpg)
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 LED protector.jpg (69KB - 3 downloads)
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Visionary
Posts: 1229
Rancho Cucamonga, CA | A standard incandescent 3157 bulb uses 9 watts in low and 18 watts in high. When our turn signals blink it draws a total of 27 watts, both low and high are on together. This is what the ECU is looking for. Since a stock bike has two bulbs on each turn signal (1 front and 1 back), it is looking for a draw of 54 watts*. If it registers only half of that, then it will double the blink rate to indicate it is registering one bulb not working. Less than half and it will not blink at all.
The 120SMT LEDs draw 6 watts each when blinking (less when not because there are fewer white LEDs than amber). If you have two running on the front (inner and outer), then you only have to make up 15 watts with a load equalizer. Maybe only 6 watts depending on if it is only looking at the turn signal circuit (18 watts) and not the entire bulb output*. To generate 15 watts of resistance, you will need 9 ohms of resistance, 24 ohms if you only need to make up the 6 watts.
*I do not know if it looks at front and back together. I have tried to put a single 3 ohm resistor on the circuit for both front and back and it did not work. When I put a 6 ohm on the front, and a 6 ohm on the back, it worked perfectly.
**I do not know if the ECU looks for 18 or 27 watts per front/back. I do know that it doesn't care if you are drawing more wattage than normal.
When buying a load equalizer, it will have two ratings, the Ohms and the Watts. The ohms will give you the resistance it creates by dividing the system voltage by that number, then multiplying it by the system voltage, i.e. a 6 ohm resistor would be 24 watts in a 12 volt system (12/6*12)
The wattage number indicates how many watts that heat sink can dissipate before it melts. The higher the wattage rating, the cooler it will be (bigger too).
Edited by Nozzledog 2013-06-13 5:21 PM
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Visionary
Posts: 1229
Rancho Cucamonga, CA | Turk, on a note about adding the resistor to calm spikes, Autoluminations is showing their resistor added in series after the LEDs instead of in parallel. |
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Iron Butt
Posts: 612
| Nozzledog - 2013-06-13 5:10 PM
Turk, on a note about adding the resistor to calm spikes, Autoluminations is showing their resistor added in series after the LEDs instead of in parallel.
Interesting. Do you have a link? I would think in parallel with the LED would complete the circuit, whereas in series after it, and the LED is still killing the circuit??? Just my thoughts anyway.
EDIT: Nevermind, I found the diagram. Hmm, I may have to order theirs and test it if the new bulbs blink as well.
Edited by Turk 2013-06-13 6:06 PM
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Visionary
Posts: 4278
| Nozzledog or Turk
If you know could you help. In front I have 3157 bulbs two on each side that blink and I would like to add something that would turn them into sequential working lights.
What would I need to delay one to give me that affect?
Thanks |
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Visionary
Posts: 1229
Rancho Cucamonga, CA | Gary Lighton has made a sequencing harness you can buy that will do it. His website is vision-mod.com . There is also a thread showing the details on how to DIY if you want to try, http://www.vision-riders.com/bb/forums/thread-view.asp?tid=5732 . |
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Iron Butt
Posts: 612
| Nozzledog - 2013-06-13 5:03 PM
A standard incandescent 3157 bulb uses 9 watts in low and 18 watts in high. When our turn signals blink it draws a total of 27 watts, both low and high are on together. This is what the ECU is looking for. Since a stock bike has two bulbs on each turn signal (1 front and 1 back), it is looking for a draw of 54 watts*. If it registers only half of that, then it will double the blink rate to indicate it is registering one bulb not working. Less than half and it will not blink at all.
The 120SMT LEDs draw 6 watts each when blinking (less when not because there are fewer white LEDs than amber). If you have two running on the front (inner and outer), then you only have to make up 15 watts with a load equalizer. Maybe only 6 watts depending on if it is only looking at the turn signal circuit (18 watts) and not the entire bulb output*. To generate 15 watts of resistance, you will need 9 ohms of resistance, 24 ohms if you only need to make up the 6 watts.
*I do not know if it looks at front and back together. I have tried to put a single 3 ohm resistor on the circuit for both front and back and it did not work. When I put a 6 ohm on the front, and a 6 ohm on the back, it worked perfectly.
**I do not know if the ECU looks for 18 or 27 watts per front/back. I do know that it doesn't care if you are drawing more wattage than normal.
When buying a load equalizer, it will have two ratings, the Ohms and the Watts. The ohms will give you the resistance it creates by dividing the system voltage by that number, then multiplying it by the system voltage, i.e. a 6 ohm resistor would be 24 watts in a 12 volt system (12/6*12)
The wattage number indicates how many watts that heat sink can dissipate before it melts. The higher the wattage rating, the cooler it will be (bigger too).
A 3 ohm resistor will dissipate about 70 watts of current, while the 6ohm will dissipate roughly half of that or 35 watts. So, as for which one is "bigger", would be the 3 ohm unit, and generate much more heat as well, requiring a larger heat sink.
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Visionary
Posts: 1229
Rancho Cucamonga, CA | 3 ohm @ 12 volts = 48 watts of resistance. 6 ohm @ 12 volts = 24 watts of resistance. Resistance = Heat.
A 3 ohm resistor cannot dissipate any heat on it's own, it needs a heat sink.
What I was saying was the wattage rating on the load equalizer represents the size of the heat sink. You can buy a '6 ohm 50 watt' or a '6 ohm 100 watt' load equalizer. They will both produce the exact same wattage, but the one designed for 100 watts will dissipate the heat better because it was designed to handle up to 100 watts. it has a much 'bigger' heat sink. To get close to 100 watts on a 6 ohm resistor, you would have to pump 24 volts thru it.
You need at least a 35 watt rated 6 ohm load equalizer, because we do get loads up to 14.5 volts equaling 35 watts. A 50 watt heat sink gives a better buffer, 100 watts even more, but it is 'bigger' and bulkier. |
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Iron Butt
Posts: 612
| Nozzledog - 2013-06-14 9:56 AM
3 ohm @ 12 volts = 48 watts of resistance. 6 ohm @ 12 volts = 24 watts of resistance. Resistance = Heat.
A 3 ohm resistor cannot dissipate any heat on it's own, it needs a heat sink.
What I was saying was the wattage rating on the load equalizer represents the size of the heat sink. You can buy a '6 ohm 50 watt' or a '6 ohm 100 watt' load equalizer. They will both produce the exact same wattage, but the one designed for 100 watts will dissipate the heat better because it was designed to handle up to 100 watts. it has a much 'bigger' heat sink. To get close to 100 watts on a 6 ohm resistor, you would have to pump 24 volts thru it.
You need at least a 35 watt rated 6 ohm load equalizer, because we do get loads up to 14.5 volts equaling 35 watts. A 50 watt heat sink gives a better buffer, 100 watts even more, but it is 'bigger' and bulkier.
We are in agreement on how the wattage rating equates to the ability of the resistor to shed heat. I was basing all of my calculations on 14.5 volts. Honestly though, if fast flash were my issue, I would consider replacing my Vision's flasher module with the Cross bike's LED capable flasher module, which should negate the need for load equalizers. The XC module can be had for roughly $62.
The purpose for my load equalizer(s) is not for flash modulation, but to negate the effects of LED flicker on the running light side of things. There, I don't need to induce much load, just enough (whatever that minimum is) to show load and maintain stable current and halt the flicker. The 50watt 6 ohm resistors generate far too much heat when used at 100% duty cycle on the running light circuit. When used on the flasher circuit, they only heat when the blinker is lit. |
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Iron Butt
Posts: 612
| Update: Received 2 replacement Samsung switchback AW bulbs. No flicker, and no load equalizer with Gary Lighton's sequencing harness. These are very bright LEDs, but the amber is less than stellar. However, with the sequencing, they are effective. |
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Rear LED 3157 Tail Brake lights
