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Puddle Jumper
Posts: 45
San Antonio Texas | I took my first decent ride on a VV at Kent Powersports here in San Antonio. We went about 20-25 miles. It included back roads, curves, and a bit of highway. I currently ride a 1986 Yamaha Venture Royale. It is in extremely good mechanical and cosmetic shape. I say this so you can understand my comparison. The Yamaha is a V-4 with shaft drive.
Positives:
1) Vision handling is very light and precise. Leans over very well.
2) Ergonomics and seating are fantastic. Would like the highway pegs at the tip of the boards.
3) Stereo volume and tonal quality good. On par with the Goldwing through the speakers.
4) Pulls like a big V-twin, very steady and torque is good.
Negatives:
1) Heat on back of legs/thighs - Yamaha heat is on inside of lower legs so not a biggie
2) Power band seems narrow. Below 2000 was shudder and above 4000 seemed empty.
3) Roll on from 30-40 mph seemed slow. My Yamaha is wicked here. I expected more from
106 CID. I think my 1300 would thrash a VV until about 100mph.
4) I wear polorized sunglasses and the windshield distortion was immense. Rainbow waves.
5) Weird lag feel coming off throttle. Noticed coming to a stop. I drop a gear at a time when stopping. Kinda like a car shifting into O/D. Driveline lash?
So, I understand deflectors and heat. Should fix #1. And it is not Harley hot. I just feel it.
Is Lloyd Greer the anwer to the power problems? I hate to spend $2000.00 on a new $25,000.00
bike to get it uncorked. Does it make that much difference? Feels a bit like the "motor company" in that respect. Thanks to all for reading. I find this group to be loyal to their bikes but able to discuss shortcomings truthfully.
JB
San Antonio, Texas
Edited by lonestarmedic 2009-09-06 9:49 AM
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Visionary
Posts: 3204
Memphis | lonestarmedic, My take: 1) - San Antonio = lowers. No brainer, just do it, end of issue. 2) & 3) - Powerband and roll-on - It's definitely different but you have to get used to it. As far as power above 4000, I'm not sure how to answer that because mine absolutely revs right into the 5,200 limiter with no fall-off at all. I only have Stage 1/Level 1 exhaust with the remap and just that change made a big difference compared to stock. Went from feeling asthmatic to breathing easy. Power numbers aren't that different but it feels/sounds so much better. 4) - I look over the windshield so it's not a factor for me but I know what you are talking about. Best fix there would probably be a Cee Bailey. They can custom fit any size you want and don't have the "flip" at the top. The guys who have them love them. 5) - Weird lag - Again, something you have to get used to. It's mostly a clutch/throttle timing thing. When it's out of sync there's a funky little dive going on. You learn to work around it, no big deal. In my opinion you could get the lowers, a Cee Bailey and Stage 1/Level 1 broken in with a couple of thousand miles and be totally content. Stage 1/Level 1 has minimal impact on hearing the radio. If that's not enough power, call Loyd. Stage 1/Level 1 seems to be the best set-up for the cam ugrade anyway if you decide to go that route later on. Good luck. |
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Visionary
Posts: 8144
New Bohemia, VA | lonestarmedic - 2009-09-06 10:40 AM
I took my first decent ride on a VV at Kent Powersports here in San Antonio. We went about 20-25 miles. It included back roads, curves, and a bit of highway. I currently ride a 1986 Yamaha Venture Royale. It is in extremely good mechanical and cosmetic shape. I say this so you can understand my comparison. The Yamaha is a V-4 with shaft drive.
Positives:
1) Vision handling is very light and precise. Leans over very well.
2) Ergonomics and seating are fantastic. Would like the highway pegs at the tip of the boards.
3) Stereo volume and tonal quality good. On par with the Goldwing through the speakers.
4) Pulls like a big V-twin, very steady and torque is good.
Agree.
Negatives:
1) Heat on back of legs/thighs - Yamaha heat is on inside of lower legs so not a biggie
Who am I to argue, I don't live in San Antonio - but yes, get the lowers as it does a great job of sweeping the heat away
2) Power band seems narrow. Below 2000 was shudder and above 4000 seemed empty.
My first biggest bike, so I don't know no better. I think the power band exceeds all my needs, just knowing when to shift is what I needed to learn.
3) Roll on from 30-40 mph seemed slow. My Yamaha is wicked here. I expected more from
106 CID. I think my 1300 would thrash a VV until about 100mph.
I'm not out to race, but when I roll on the throttle I'm amazed of how fast it moves down the road, especially when cruising at 70mph and I have to get up and go.
4) I wear polorized sunglasses and the windshield distortion was immense. Rainbow waves.
Sucks. I still have the stock windshield and I don't even pay attention to the distortion any longer..
5) Weird lag feel coming off throttle. Noticed coming to a stop. I drop a gear at a time when stopping. Kinda like a car shifting into O/D. Driveline lash?
Resently I've noticed this too as well, after about 50,000 miles. I know it has been there all along, but just started noticing it. I think I've changed my style somewhat since my 45,000 mile service and that makes it more pronounced. I don't see any issues with it though, just curious that it does it.
So, I understand deflectors and heat. Should fix #1. And it is not Harley hot. I just feel it.
Is Lloyd Greer the anwer to the power problems? I hate to spend $2000.00 on a new $25,000.00
bike to get it uncorked. Does it make that much difference? Feels a bit like the "motor company" in that respect. Thanks to all for reading. I find this group to be loyal to their bikes but able to discuss shortcomings truthfully.
I'm still running stock, but I've entertained uncorking it when I need to change out the mufflers. At 52,000 and riding everyday they seem to be holding up very well.
JB
San Antonio, Texas
I think you'll make a good choice coming over to a Vision. Personally, having ridden a belt driven bike, I perfer it over a shaft any day. It calls for a change out of 30,000 miles, I put 44,500 with no issues, it still looks new. This belt I plan on running it to at least 60,000 miles or more, that is if I don't pick up a rock.
Edited by varyder 2009-09-06 12:35 PM
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Visionary
Posts: 1436
| Engine heat? Yep install some deflectors.
powerband too narrow? Never noticed that but I have bounced the rev limiter more times than ten folks should.
Roll on 30-40 seems slow? You were either in neutral or someone gave you a moped instead of a Vision. Oh and if your 1300 could keep up with a Vision, the rookie riding the Vision should never be allowed to ride one again.
Windshield distortion? Really, look over it or buy new sunglasses, their cheaper than a new shield.
Wierd lag? Never experienced this but perhaps you were dropping out of warp?
All joking aside your Yamaha is going to feel quicker due to the motor configuration, but it isn't even close. The windshield isn't an issue for me but if it bothers you maybe a cee baileys. Heat doesn't give me any issues even in crawling 100 degree conditions and my Vision has never been short on excel (in spite of the rev limiter), nor have I experienced any lag.
Folks who have been here know I don't pull any punches and will be the first to gripe if my Vision has an issue. I'm looking at your list and wondering where is the issue? For the most part your list is rider input, not bike related. Twist the throttle, shift when the tac is at 4500 and repeat as necessary to desired speed. All bikes make heat and all windshield make the rainbow.
I believe 99% of all those who shop the Vision because they have a need and desire for this style bike will be happy with their choice. The remaining 1% need coaxed into purchasing and will piss and moan until they get rid of the bike because they tried to talk themselves into it instead of really wanting it. Just my take and what I've noticed. So if you are happy with your Yamaha & think its all that, keep it and pass on the Vision. JMO |
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Visionary
Posts: 3006
San Antonio, TX |
>> Hello from San Antonio. The guys at Kent Powersports are great. They are my home shop now for my Vision.
Positives:
2) Ergonomics and seating are fantastic. Would like the highway pegs at the tip of the boards.
>> If you are tall, someone makes highway peg mounts that connect to the Front Tipovers.
Negatives:
1) Heat on back of legs/thighs - Yamaha heat is on inside of lower legs so not a biggie
>> I have the lowers and ride everyday to work. It has got to be wicked and nasty for me not to ride the 7.5 miles to Nacodoches and 410, Broadway Bank.
2) Power band seems narrow. Below 2000 was shudder and above 4000 seemed empty.
>> I had the same problem with the stock fuel map. I am running the Stage 1 Level 2 exhaust and the map that comes with it works great. As Songfan stated the Stage 1 Level 2 exhaust works for him. I would not keep the stock exhaust nor stock map.
>> After my trials of getting the proper map on my Vision from a company that is out of business, I finally got the right map and now my power starts at about 1600 to 1700 rpm.
3) Roll on from 30-40 mph seemed slow. My Yamaha is wicked here. I expected more from
106 CID. I think my 1300 would thrash a VV until about 100mph.
>> My Vision has about 86 hp and 95 110 ft/lbs of torque with S1L2 exhaust. The exhaust and map should fix that for the most part.
>> If not then with cams, a fuel controller and a different air intake the engine can easily produce about 110 hp and 110 ft/lbs of torque. Thats at the back tire.
4) I wear polorized sunglasses and the windshield distortion was immense. Rainbow waves.
>> This does suck. I will get a Cee Baily someday.
I will send you a private message on this site with my phone number and email address. Maybe we can get together for lunch.
Ride Safe.
Edited by radioteacher 2009-09-06 9:39 PM
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Iron Butt
Posts: 1158
Richmond, Virginia | Lowers yes
Stereo better for 09 upgraded to the Ness power system with the onboard amp now i can blow away any ghetto mobile with the volume setting just on 6-7.
The windshield no one has talked about this but the distortion is not simply a windshield thing. It could be the combination of looking through specialty lenses in your goggles/glasses and the lexan of the windshield. I own 3 windshields the stock, a shorty from CeeBailey for summer and the Tall CeeBailey for the winter. I dont have the distortion looking through ANY of the windshields and I DO
LOOK THROUGH THEM. I thnk the CeeBailey shields are well worth the very reasonable price, not to mention, he will cut down any size you need, who else does that. I agree with Teach and the others. This bike is in a class of its own, to a certain degree you should be looking at this bike as a whole, not necessarily as a comparative to another brand and type of bike. Apples to oranges.
If your thoughts are based on comparing to your present bike, you probably wont get a fair outcome. I can promise you one thing,
you WILL get noticed on this bike ALL THE TIME. YOu will stand out, and you will feel very cool. Does any of that happen on your Yamaha? give it some thought, you'll know what to do |
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Puddle Jumper
Posts: 45
San Antonio Texas | Thanks for all the input folks. My impressions are just that. Now, I could have compared it to the 110 screaming eagle or the 1800 wing I tried. However, I felt it best to compare to what I have now. I think the demo bike has never been really gone through. I tried the throttle at 1800 in third and 4th and it was not pleasant. I bet that bike gets no service. Probably runs easy on the access roads etc. I will get with Radioteacher and get some real input instead of a kid at the store who rides sport bikes.
And Teach, my old Yamaha is not all that or I would not be shopping for a new bike. However, it does clear the quarter-mile at about 12.8 seconds. I believe that is reasonably decent for an 800lb touring bike that is over 20 years old. I was riding the VV and twisting the throttle not some kid. So, maybe a bit of adjustment to a big v-twin combined with a motor that is in good tune mite make a difference.
VaParadox - I do feel cool with my Yamaha. How many people have an almost mint condition 1986 touring bike. It doesn't draw a crowd like a Vision but it is usually appreciated. I AM looking at the Vision because of the look and feel of the bike. Nothing else has come close.
All in all, it sounds like the Vision is what I want. I just believe in finding out all I can before making a purchase. All the items I have mentioned are fairly minor. Every bike has its quirks. Its a matter of learning to deal with them. Please realize I joined this board to understand the bike, not bash and cause problems. No-one should feel a need to defend the Vision. Nor should I feel the need to justify my Yamaha or my impressions of the Vision.
JB
Edited by lonestarmedic 2009-09-06 11:56 PM
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Cruiser
Posts: 106
L.I., N.Y. | I also wear polarized perscription glasses and just had my windshield changed under warranty and it was like looking thru a new piece of glass. |
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Cruiser
Posts: 102
Madison, AL | Positives:
1) Vision handling is very light and precise. Leans over very well.
It sure does, I forget how big a bike it is at times. Feels much smaller.
2) Ergonomics and seating are fantastic. Would like the highway pegs at the tip of the boards.
I can do my trips to Florida from Tennessee and still walk after the trip.
3) Stereo volume and tonal quality good. On par with the Goldwing through the speakers.
First bike I have every owned with tunes. I love it but did replace the factory speakers with aftermarket ones.
4) Pulls like a big V-twin, very steady and torque is good.
Love riding a bike that feels like a motorcycle.
Negatives:
1) Heat on back of legs/thighs - Yamaha heat is on inside of lower legs so not a biggie
Doesn't roast you like a HD, yep I previously owned a HD. Last bike was a Suzuki 109R and had no heat issues with the water cooled engine and triple layer heat shield. The wind deflectors help some.
2) Power band seems narrow. Below 2000 was shudder and above 4000 seemed empty.
Mine runs fine across the power band but I do have some mods to the engine. .
3) Roll on from 30-40 mph seemed slow. My Yamaha is wicked here. I expected more from
106 CID. I think my 1300 would thrash a VV until about 100mph.
My buddy thought his Kawasaki 2000 Vulcan would as well. He does have gobs more torque but it didn't translate to speed. I did have the cams, intake, ignition, and exhaust redone. Went up to 116hp and 116lbs of torque. My friend rode my bike before and after modifications. He didn't even consider it as an buy before I did the mods and after the mods he is looking for a new touring bike. That 2000 Vulcan is a nice machine but the handling lets you know it is a beast all the time. When we go out riding I have to make painful turns in 1st or 2nd gear so I don't lose my partner on a ride. The VV handles very well and I can take curves safely at speeds that I would not have attempted before on my other cruisers, a HD and a M109R. Previous bikes before my cruiser phase i.e. sport bikes were faster in the curves but not by much.
4) I wear polorized sunglasses and the windshield distortion was immense. Rainbow waves.
Same here so I bought the CEE bailey windscreen. Didn't look like much of a difference when I held them side by side but at angles and looking through it on the bike there is a big difference. You almost forget that there is a difference since the CEE Bailey windscreen is so clear.
5) Weird lag feel coming off throttle. Noticed coming to a stop. I drop a gear at a time when stopping. Kinda like a car shifting into O/D. Driveline lash?
I have not noticed this issue. Maybe due to my different engine configuration with mods.
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Visionary
Posts: 8144
New Bohemia, VA | lonestarmedic - 2009-09-07 12:38 AM
I do feel cool with my Yamaha. How many people have an almost mint condition 1986 touring bike. It doesn't draw a crowd like a Vision but it is usually appreciated. I AM looking at the Vision because of the look and feel of the bike. Nothing else has come close.
JB
How many miles do you have on your Royale?
When I look across the years of touring it is a shame that it took a small American motorcycle company to pick up the mantle. It was the Japanese and Euro bikes that accomplished in making a tourer and the American companies just bagged on and called it a tourer.
The Royale was some good competition against the Wing but just couldn't hang on, so you do have a classic especially if it is in good working order.
Hopefully when you meet up with RT he'll really show you that both tourers and cruisers have met their match with the Vision. |
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Puddle Jumper
Posts: 45
San Antonio Texas | VaRyder - My Yamaha has about 57K. It is a bit unusual to find a bike this old in great condition. I have been able to pass it of to the young'uns as a prototype for the 2010 Yamaha. Many have never seen one and my paint looks new. I will re-size and post a couple pictures. In the Venturerider club we probably have a few more that look like new. Either restored or original. It is funny you mention picking up the mantle. We have always said that Yamaha could have done great things if they had kept it up. In 1999 they brought out the 2nd generation Venture. Knuckled under to the masses with an Electra-Glide style machine. Kawasaki had the Voyager and Suzuki the Cavalcade. All but Honda went towards the cruiser crowd. I too am glad Victory went into the touring market.
All of the things everyone has said lead me to believe that the Vision only needs the engine uncorked. I love seeing over 110 lb. feet of torque at the rear. That is 2-Up material. And the report on the Cee Bailey windshields are good. So, it will take a few more Pesos to make a great touring bike into something truly remarkable. Now, just because I am loyal to the old Yammy I will see what Mama-Yama brings out this week. I am hoping for a V-Max engine in a touring package with a frame-mounted fairing. Probably won't see it. So, the question will be 2009 in Ice Blue or 2010 in Blue/Sand?
JB |
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Puddle Jumper
Posts: 45
San Antonio Texas | Ok - I uploaded a few pictures of Mocha, my 1986 Venture into an album. I also put in a picture of my buddy's 1986 so that you can see that there are 2 of them
JB
(Alabama.JPG)
Attachments
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 Alabama.JPG (40KB - 3 downloads)
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Visionary
Posts: 3006
San Antonio, TX | Give me a call and we can get some lunch. Are you planing on keeping the Venture? I am guessing it would be hard to part with a bike that had provide such good times over the years.
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Visionary
Posts: 3006
San Antonio, TX | lonestarmedic,
Sorry that we missed each other tonight. Call me and we can get lunch this weekend.
Ride Safe |
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1st ride - impressions and questions
