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Cruiser
Posts: 266
Hartland, , WI | I was going to post this in August but was busy riding and now that the VV is in bed I thought it was story time. This post is a combination of two events...
One, this past August my close friend in charge of Virginia's motor cycle safety program rode his HD Ultra Classic up to Madison, WI for his annual conference where all the state reps like him get together (Madison this year) and I met him for a night of riding and recanting college stories (can't tell you those...mixed company on this forum). It was his first time riding and touching a Vision up close for him.
Two, just read the hard copy version of Rider Magazine Sept. 2009 issue in the waiting room at a local hospital. I was delighted to see a great comparison as the cover story:
"Touring Cruiser Shootout: Harley-Davidson Ultra Classic Electra Glide, Kawasaki Vulcan 1700 Voyager, Victory Vision Tour Premium & Star Royal Star Venture S"
http://www.ridermagazine.com/output.cfm?id=2226349
These two non sequential events collided and got me pissed and I needed some therapy so now you get "the rest of the story." What you don't get on the electronic link above vs. the hard copy story is the final grading of the four very comparable bikes. I thought this was going to be a great apple to apples comparison. Four similar loaded touring bikes...V twin engines, etc. ridden for two days by four different riders.
The link will show you that they really had the right idea on what to grade the bikes on, everything that is meaningful for consideration when buying a bike like the Vision was listed...couldn't wait to get to the final analysis!
Well, the VV took third...but the author comes right out and says the Vision would clearly have walked away with first place if it wasn't for the "styling". One of the evaluators called the styling "ABSURD!"…which immediately brought me back to my ride in August on my buds Ultra Classic. Here is my definition of "ABSURD"
I had to be careful when we switched bikes for about an hour ride around the beautiful country roads outside of Madison and about 10 miles on the interstate...but I had to switch back to my Vision before we completed our ride to the downtown hotel where the conference was at. No way was I going to ride in traffic on that HD...too scary!
I had to be careful too as when riding and I was in the lead and didn't want to be caught shaking my head in disbelief. My good friend spent $5,000 more on his ride than my loaded Premium and I didn't want to hurt his feelings if he caught me shaking my head and ask what that was about. Both bikes equipped the same down to the IPOD interface...and so...
I couldn't believe it when I got on the HD I felt like I was riding with the seat over the front wheel as the "clip on fairing" felt like it was under my chin! Yup..."clip on fairing" is what I call it got me shaking my head the first time. When I looked down at this little chunk of plastic sticking straight up and down (nice aero dynamic thought there) and these tiny little gauges all mounted to the handle bars I felt like I was on my nephews Fisher Price Big Wheel with his new "Cal-Custom-Ghetto" windshield and stick on simulation decals for the speedo and tach....Holy Yuck Batman!
You can see in the link above that each bike had it's own page of photos and stats...and just look at the scrawny little gauges you get on these bikes...Holy shit Batman! (Robin looses his cool)
Then the radio blends in so nice with the rest of the dash....NOT! And the buttons, switches and controls all made this $25k+ bike feel like somebody whipped this all together in someone's garage one weekend and just connect all of these puny controls to the handle bars on a circa 1969 Harley Davidson.
And what I kept thinking while riding the bike was I can't believe someone would actually pay huge dollars for what I think is "caught in a time warp technology and looks called..RETRO" and think that more than a few consider this "RETRO" look the Benchmark of what a motorcycle should look like. Good God...thank goodness my brain is not hard wired to think like those that still admire that styling....because I think that lack of engineering and lack of Vision is "ABSURD!"
The ride was not all that comfortable but the engine was smooth unless we where idling at a stop light and the handle bars shook like the bike was just getting over the DT's. All the time I kept shaking my head while riding something that people fork out huge money for...get on the HD...and say to themselves…"now this is the cats meow!"
While on the HD I couldn't help but feel like I was 12 years old back on my black and chrome Schwinn Typhoon with big balloon tires and white walls with an engine mounted where my pedals should be.
I watch my friend on my Vision throwing the bike all over the place as he is an instructor and lives on bikes and it was the first time I got a steady diet of the Vision's big ass headlight and HID combo. That's why we switched back before we got into city traffic...I wanted to be on something that people could see.
My friend was pretty impressed with the VV with the comfortable seating position first (there's a big shock...NOT) Power second (wouldn't have guessed that) and the handling. He loved all the bells and whistles like he had...thought the dash was really attractive as the dash went from white dials to blue as we road through dusk. But he loved the adjustable windshield vs. the fixed on his Ultra Classic that was too close to my face and way too short to protect me…not a shock there either.
So for the record…I now take anyone's "review" about what is a good motorcycle, when in my opinion (that's all this is about anyway) the person doing the review is really just a simpleton using the Retro look of a bike as the "benchmark" with less than a grain of salt! I loved my BMW LT looks too and other bikes that show their engineering & style calendar aren't stuck in the 60's. This from a man that has a 1967 RT Dodge Charger sitting in the garage....ABSURD!
Edited by Vinner1 2009-12-13 3:49 PM
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Tourer
Posts: 311
Atlanta Area | Yeah, people had a cow about this when the article first came out... It all comes down to advertising bucks and personal bias... Anyone with an open mind would have chosen the Vision hands down:
http://www.vision-riders.com/bb/forums/thread-view.asp?tid=4031 |
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Cruiser
Posts: 266
Hartland, , WI | 1atom12 - 2009-12-13 3:45 PM
Yeah, people had a cow about this when the article first came out... It all comes down to advertising bucks and personal bias... Anyone with an open mind would have chosen the Vision hands down:
http://www.vision-riders.com/bb/forums/thread-view.asp?tid=4031[/QU...
Thanks atom...I looked/searched the forum for 15 minutes because I thought there was a thread about this article but couldn't find it. Sorry for the duplicate.... |
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Visionary
Posts: 8144
New Bohemia, VA | There again, the absurd styling is what makes the Vision what it is. Truly an engineering genius to design such and incredible ride, cover it and make the weather protection the best in the industry. Just throw your head back in laugh when they call the Vision absurd. It's absurd not to ride a Vision...if you really like to ride... |
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Cruiser
Posts: 114
Southeast, AZ United States | It's ABSURD to have a 67 Charger RT in the garage...DRIVE IT!!!!  (I'm sure you do...) Great Story.
Ride Safe and post of pic of the Charger...
Ken 
Edited by Vsion 2009-12-13 7:19 PM
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Cruiser
Posts: 255
New Brunswick , Canada | Kind of funny...Rider Magazine got there opinion and the Motorcycle Cruiser Magazine came out with almost the same shootout.. 2010 HD Electra Glide LTD....2010 Kawasaki Voyager...2009 Star Venture and 2009 Victory Vision.
To Shorten the story...3 out of 4 drivers pick the Victory Vision overall..
www.motorcyclecruiser.com/roadtests/0912_crup_harley_davidson_electra_glide_kawasaki_vulcan_star_royal_star_victory_vision/index.html |
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Tourer
Posts: 495
Carrollton, TX | I think it is absurd that most of these test riders are not touring riders. In fact in most cases none of them are. You can tell by the comments that most of them are sport bike riders. Has any of the test riders in this shootout done a several thousand mile touring ride in the last year? If you are going to evaluate touring bikes you need have hard core touring riders do the testing. They should have years of touring experience on all the major touring bikes covering well over 100,000 miles or they are less qualified than many of us. To pick a touring bike based on looks is the only real absurd thing here. In selecting a touring bike it is all about function not form. It would be like putting the Ducati dead last as a sport bike because you did not like the looks. Never mind it won the race and took home the gold. If they were reviewing choppers, or show bikes than form would be a top selection point. The editor of that magazine should be greatly concerned as a statement that absurd destroys his magazine and staffs credibility. |
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Cruiser
Posts: 266
Hartland, , WI | Spock - 2009-12-13 10:23 PM
I think it is absurd that most of these test riders are not touring riders. In fact in most cases none of them are. You can tell by the comments that most of them are sport bike riders. Has any of the test riders in this shootout done a several thousand mile touring ride in the last year? If you are going to evaluate touring bikes you need have hard core touring riders do the testing. They should have years of touring experience on all the major touring bikes covering well over 100,000 miles or they are less qualified than many of us. To pick a touring bike based on looks is the only real absurd thing here. In selecting a touring bike it is all about function not form. It would be like putting the Ducati dead last as a sport bike because you did not like the looks. Never mind it won the race and took home the gold. If they were reviewing choppers, or show bikes than form would be a top selection point. The editor of that magazine should be greatly concerned as a statement that absurd destroys his magazine and staffs credibility.
Spock...you Rock!
Well spoken, well said. |
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Iron Butt
Posts: 1158
Richmond, Virginia | Big shock, when I read the review, i immediately wrote back my own "editorial review" of Riders "reviewers". I expressed concern
over the term "absurd" as well. I also noted the point that was made above that the reviewers were themselves not touring bike guys.
Then with polite but firm respect, i tore them down about "styling" and that in a review of mechanical ability, comfort, build quality, ergonomics, etc etc "absurd" had NO place in the judgement. Afterall beauty is in the eye of the beholder and THIS WAS NOT A BEAUTY CONTEST. I asked that MY review of them be published as a fair response........ big shock, no deal. Therefore,
I have no on going respect for Rider Magazine, they have proved once again, that they cannot be impartial to who spends the most
advertising dollar with them. |
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Cruiser
Posts: 266
Hartland, , WI | Great points Va...!
Go gettem....you tell them wrotten bastards...LOL.
Seriously though...never thought about grading the graders! |
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Visionary
Posts: 1484
LaPorte,Tx. | You can get the Rider rag for about $12 for a year. That probably covers the cost of putting together the paper it is printed on. As VA has stated, it is all about who put the most $s in their pockets...it is not the reader. Rider used to be a good magazine that put together articles about bikes, rider safety and reviews of locations to ride. Now, they are no different than most rags telling readers, this is what is best for you...listen to us. I still receive the magazine at my house...but I don't read it, they go directly to recycle. Subscription will end soon.  |
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Cruiser
Posts: 255
New Brunswick , Canada | Motocycle Cruiser Magazine issue December 2009....There shootout conclusion.
I copy and paste it.....
"Decisions, Decisions
Though it weighs almost 900 pounds, the Vision set a lively pace the others simply couldn't match. Attention to detail, a snorty V-Twin, good road manners and high zoot amenities made for a great travel companion. _Three of four testers had this bike as their top pick.
The Harley Ultra Classic Electra Glide is an acknowledged leader, but if you want more, the Limited succeeds as a step-up mount. Fit and finish is superb, and easy controls and light steering are unexpected surprises, putting the Harley in second or third on everybody's list.
The Voyager is one of the better-equipped, affordable long-range bikes out there. Two of our testers felt it was the easiest to ride. It's built to a price point however, and future refinements to the chassis and engine will help Kawasaki make a stronger showing in this class next time.
Despite its classic appearance, the Venture marches to a different beat. Half our riders took the Star to task for a high center of gravity, lack of amenities, and price. But the Star is well-finished and the engine so understressed that it's hard to imagine any mechanical problems for at least 50,000 miles.
If you can deal with swoopy bodywork and aren't afraid of a little performance (or attention), the Vision is the one. "
More balance judgement.... ;o) |
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Cruiser
Posts: 266
Hartland, , WI | Lo....you made me feel better. Now I'll have to watch for articles from Motorcycle Cruiser Mag...seeing how they report the honest answer that the data (the riders butt) gives them vs. "Global Warming" perspective on what they want you to think.
Edited by Vinner1 2009-12-15 9:14 AM
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Cruiser
Posts: 204
West Knoxville TN | Yes the Cruiser Mag article was pretty good. |
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Visionary
Posts: 1436
| When this came up the last time I was very matter of fact, and to be honest I don't see the big hoopla. Someones opinion is the Vision looks funny, thats fair enough. Based on sales I'd suggest the raters got it right, the Vision isn't for everyone, particularly those who want the retro or traditional look.
Is the Vision as good as the HD or the Goldwing, or some other bagger? I'd suggest that if one was to have a like for any of the aforementioned bikes, and spent their money on it, it would be as good or better. I've had a lot of "best" bikes and they all were. So I rarely, make that never, get worked up about someone elses opinion of my ride. The only opinion that matters is mine.
Absurd? Ya probably.... but damn AWESOME as well |
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Tourer
Posts: 495
Carrollton, TX | My point is that calling any touring bike absurd and ranking it last in a review because of how you like or don’t like the looks of the bike is absurd. I would make the same statement if they had rank the Vision 1st and the Harley Ultra last (or any other touring bike) based on its looks. That is not being objective or relevant. Beauty is in the eye of the beholder and a touring bike should be rated on comfort, handling, performance, wind and weather protection, storage, electronics, safety, braking, and other relevant criteria for a touring bike, basically all the things that the Vision was better at. |
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Visionary
Posts: 8144
New Bohemia, VA | This whole thread is ABSURD! It is too fold, if everyone really got past the looks and starting buying Visions, then my bike would soon look like everyone else's.
So let these bias, unqualified dorks do all their reviews they want, rate it high in all marks, san looks and let me try to stay as unique as I can. Funny thing is there are over 20 Vision sold in my area and the only one other Visions I see are usually on the showroom floor. |
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"Absurd...means what?"
