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Tourer
Posts: 444
Bay of Gigs, WA | Yesterday, though it wasn't especially nice, it wasn't raining, so I thought I'd get out on the Vision. Pulled it out of the garage, 42 degrees, and the foot brake went right to the floorboard. There was no sign whatsoever of any leakage around the master cylinder or calipers, no puddle on the floor.
I called my dealer, Hinshaws, in Auburn, WA. He suggested that there's air in the system. I checked the fluid level and it was down a little, maybe, but certainly not enough to allow air into the system.
Convinced that an o-ring must have given up internally to allow a bypass of fluid, I put'er on the trailer and took her up there. The service guy showed me where, way down in the bowels, there's a crossover tube for the brake fluid that gets pretty close to the front exhaust pipe, and that boils the fluid, causing an outgassing and a compression issue with the fluid. So, since it's up there, I left it and he'll bleed and change the fluid. I've been influenced by this blog so much I thought I'd drop a few bucks and support my local dealer, since he's probably not sold a bike in a month anyway, what with the weather and economy and all.
40 years of riding and driving and I must admit, I've never run across this sort of thing before. Anybody else have this happen? Too weird. But I guarantee there'll be a piece of Dynamat or something around that tube for insulation before too much more riding gets done! |
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Cruiser
Posts: 156
dinwiddie, va | Never seen this before on any Vision over the years. But I have seen the problem. It has never been anything but the master cylinder. I personally have replaced 1/2 a dozen since 2008. Interested to see if thats really the problem though. If it were just air in the system, he should be able to do that while you wait. Or at least thats what I would do. Either way keep us posted |
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Puddle Jumper
Posts: 47
centrel Minnesota | I had this hapen on my vision last spring the dealer bleed it and away I went . |
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Visionary
Posts: 3204
Memphis | Here's a thread from early '09. http://www.vision-riders.com/bb/forums/thread-view.asp?tid=3022&start=1 |
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Visionary
Posts: 4278
| Theirs a lot of guys with this problem. I think that we do things wrong when we call a dealer and tell him to report it to Vic. We should report it to the national hwy safety board. Then they would make Vic do a recall instead of sweeping it under the carpet in hopes it will go away.
When we report it to the safety board we just might save some ones life.
rainryder nightvision will you please add to your profile what state your in. Thanks |
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Visionary
Posts: 1359
New Bohemia, Va | john frey - 2011-01-21 6:18 PM
Theirs a lot of guys with this problem. I think that we do things wrong when we call a dealer and tell him to report it to Vic. We should report it to the national hwy safety board. Then they would make Vic do a recall instead of sweeping it under the carpet in hopes it will go away.
When we report it to the safety board we just might save some ones life.
rainryder nightvision will you please add to your profile what state your in. Thanks
having read this problem more than once on this forum and theVMC I can agree with you on this John. Dealers know, and I don't think anyone is actually sweeping it under the rug. Not sure how many this has affected overall, but it is worth some attention. Personally I've not had this issue. |
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Tourer
Posts: 444
Bay of Gigs, WA | Thanks, SongFan, it's interesting to note I'm not crazy afterall. Well, about this, anyway. Hardly motivational, though...
But I guess it beats having the crank/cam drive go oval like my buddy's '05 Street Glide. |
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Cruiser
Posts: 137
Houston, Texas | Happened to me last week...pulled up to a stop sign and the rear brake pedal went all the way down, no rear brake. Front brakes were still functional. Threw it on the trailer and hauled to my dealer. They replaced the fluid, bled the system and all is well again.
The dealership acted like it was a normal thing...I drive a 2001 Suburban cage and it has a hydro/mechanical brake system just like the Vision, in ten years I've have never had to have my brakes bled on the 'cage'.
AND no one can tell me why this happened to my Vision rear brake system and apparently there isn't a comprehensive answer to be had.
I guess we'll just have to file it under "FM".
Edited by STARSHIP 1 2011-01-21 9:37 PM
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Tourer
Posts: 444
Bay of Gigs, WA | "Freakin' Magic?" |
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Cruiser
Posts: 258
Akron, Ohio | My guess is that there is a point that the brake fluid becomes saturated with a high enough water content that it boils. If the fluid gets changed there is no more water and all is good. I had this happen to a dual sport when I was in Colorado. Coming down a pass and riding the rear brake, it suddenly failed with no pedal pressure. I came the rest of the way down with no rear brake. After it cooled the brake was fine. I changed the fluid and never had any more problems . This is just one reason why it is important to change fluid every so often. |
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Visionary
Posts: 1359
New Bohemia, Va | if you search the forum you'll find this issue can occur when brand new with the Vision. |
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Visionary
Posts: 2300
Georgia, west of Atlanta | That should be a safety recall. We let Victory get away with alot of shit that car companies would never be able to.........National Highway safety board huh ??? |
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Visionary
Posts: 4278
| Like I said early if we leave it up to victory and they look at the coast of fixing our bikes you know they never will fix them. For the past thirty years yes I owned a harley and never once sitting in the un heated garage at temps below zero or going over mountain pass's ever had to add or change fluid un less I want to change the fluid. I have a good twenty friends that ride the harley and never had the brakes go bad cause of cold or water. I and I'm sure others wash there bike a little or way to much and we all use water. I under stand the part of water and condensation but that should only occur with really low fluid levels. Maybe victory is not using a good quality brake fluid. Keep in mind that they take bids every year or so to find the best price for there oils filters and other parts. So who supplies them might be pulling a fast one. If a dealer doesn't do his job in reporting this who might be the one to crash.
I wonder if its something to do with the link system. Do BMW and Goldwings have the same problem.
I think we do it all wrong by telling the national hwy safety board were telling some that can make motorcycle manufactures do something.
After all we don't want to be another Toyota do we.
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Visionary
Posts: 3204
Memphis | A buddy of mine had a BMW and they required the brake fluid to be completely changed out every year whether he put 1 mile or 50,000 miles on it that year. Of course it's a closed loop system requiring a factory bleeder set-up so he couldn't do it himself. I think it had to do with liability/warranty on the ABS system. I don't remember the cost but I remember my response: "Wow." |
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Visionary
Posts: 3006
San Antonio, TX | After two years I had the dealer replace the fluid and bleed the brakes during a maintenance last summer. I will not keep the fluid longer than that. I could feel the difference after the change. |
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Tourer
Posts: 444
Bay of Gigs, WA | Well, Saturday and the sun almost came out. Had the wife drive me over to the dealer so she could drop me off and go shopping, and he'd bled the brakes and all seems well. Victory uses DOT-4 fluid which is the same as DOT-3 but with a higher boiling point, my local auto parts guy says. The dealer showed me where a tube runs pretty close to the front exhaust pipe, and you can bet there's a piece of insulation going on there toot-sweet. He also says the Suzukis, especially Katanas are famous for this as they run a brake line over the top of the engine somehow and it heat soaks and boils the fluid in traffic.
Whatever. It was "only" 60 bucks, so it's cheaper than I figured it would be, but it certainly doesn't thrill me. Hopefully this doesn't happen again.
I've sold rigs many times before because I got tired of fixing the same sh*t over and over again, and yards of sweeping plastic notwithstanding, I could do it again. |
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Tourer
Posts: 562
SC, Bluffton | rainryder - 2011-01-24 12:52 PM
The dealer showed me where a tube runs pretty close to the front exhaust pipe, and you can bet there's a piece of insulation going on there
Thank you for posting the post. I can asure you I will be looking down there soon, and I will try to
block the heat off as well. I am open to suggestions as long as no one says a cat. 
Herb |
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Visionary
Posts: 1484
LaPorte,Tx. | rainryder - 2011-01-24 11:52 AM
Well, Saturday and the sun almost came out. Had the wife drive me over to the dealer so she could drop me off and go shopping, and he'd bled the brakes and all seems well. Victory uses DOT-4 fluid which is the same as DOT-3 but with a higher boiling point, my local auto parts guy says. The dealer showed me where a tube runs pretty close to the front exhaust pipe, and you can bet there's a piece of insulation going on there toot-sweet. He also says the Suzukis, especially Katanas are famous for this as they run a brake line over the top of the engine somehow and it heat soaks and boils the fluid in traffic.
Whatever. It was "only" 60 bucks, so it's cheaper than I figured it would be, but it certainly doesn't thrill me. Hopefully this doesn't happen again.
I've sold rigs many times before because I got tired of fixing the same sh*t over and over again, and yards of sweeping plastic notwithstanding, I could do it again.
The most common way to reach a high temperature on brake fluid is heavy braking. One thing that should be checked is to have a good rear wheel alignment. A little bit of mis-alignment on the rear wheel will cause rotor drag on the brake pads which will produce some pretty good heat that would get transmitted to the fluid. Glad your back riding and hope you don't have any more issues. |
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Tourer
Posts: 444
Bay of Gigs, WA | Thanks. When I'm coasting downhill, the scoot picks up speed, so I haven't really noticed any drag from back there, and no noise, either. The belt will squeal from time to time when its cold, when under load, then stopping after the bike travels a couple miles. The dealer says this is normal as the belt doesn't self-center, but just wanders all over the pulley willy-nilly. He's got to be one lazy individual! And full of it, to boot. No warranty issues shall cross his door!
A 1/2" wrench (12 or 13 MM, I forget) applied to one of the locking nuts behind the axle seems to center things and take care of the squeal for a couple months, but even having to do that is just one more thing to piss me off. I swear, between this brake thing, the intermittantly squealing belt, the lousy radio and the vagaries of the odometer/trip computer, it's a damn good thing this bike's so comfortable. My old Norton doesn't give me much more irritation than this. Less, actually, since when it runs good I'm totally thrilled, but I EXPECT the VV to do so, at least for a few more years. Like 30. |
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Visionary
Posts: 4278
| Read the manual and it will tell you how to adjust the belt or do a search here. Maybe eye ball the pads and see if they look evenly worn.
Once you get these little problems out of the way you'll have smooth riding for some time. Look for a new dealer you might have to ride a little farther but you'll be a happy bikes. |
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Iron Butt
Posts: 742
North Orange County CA | Took my '08 to the dealer and had them change out the brake fluid today based on this thread. Amazing how different (better) they feel now.
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Tourer
Posts: 554
2 mi from Jim Beam n KY | A photo of this brake line by the exhaust pipe would be kewl! |
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Here's a new one to me...
