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Visionary
Posts: 8144
New Bohemia, VA | Wife and I had a great ride yesterday to VB and we even passed another Vision with a pack of Harleys. Man that sure did look nice, and I bet they were surprised to see another Vision coming the other way. Anyway David, hope you had as great a ride as we did.
I've been enjoying the Vision like a brand new bike since I got shed of all the exhaust leaks and it ain't been poppin'. Yesterday, I took note of three stalls, each was when the bike was hot.
After coming off of the interstate into the beach area it is stop and go traffic. And the bike was doing well. We get to one traffic light and we are sitting there idling when the light turns green I give it gas and it acts like there is none. I'm trying the rev the motor and let out the clutch and it dies. I refire, and away we go.
This was similar when we were coming down on 460 in one of the small towns in which the light turned green as I was approaching and I hit the throttle to take off and it died, no pop, but I noticed it seemed like it wasn't getting fuel. So we are coasting through the intersection and I refire and it starts but dies almost immediately when I crack the throttle like there is no fuel. I was thinking under these circumstances, great, I do have a crummy IAC but there is no pop.
Back to VB, we find our parking spot and enjoy a great day at the beach. For some reason the wife gets us directly behind the lifeguard tower and we spend the whole afternoon into the evening watching about 4 long episodes of Baywatch Live. That has nothing to do with this story though.
The day is done and we're loaded up and ready for home. We decide to eat at our favorite restaurant in Williamsburg, meaning we have to fight homeward bound beach traffic through the Hampton Road Bridge Tunnel. That turns out to be the most gruelling test to date I've put the Vision through. I'm thankful I fix that exhaust leak when I did. Once we get into the point of no return and we are committed to go through the tunnel we find ourshelves in an absolute crawl that last almost and hour for almost 5 miles.
On the bridge part coming out of Norfolk, we are in typical stop and go traffic until we get to the tunnel that merges into one lane because of construction. At the merge the traffic seems to pick up a bit and we are moving some and by this time the engine is hot at 250 on the stick gage. But the movement is short lived and we are now moving deep into the tunnel and it is getting hot. The traffic is moving in such away that I cannot get out of first gear. I'm working the clutch like crazy and my hand is going absolutely numb. Now all this is a blast (yeah right!) riding two up. We are literally crawling and I'm keeping the bike up and straight. I would never had been able to demonstrate such "skill" on the wing, but that too is another story.
As we are going along the bike is getting hotter and hotter, where the gage says we are at 300, and my clutch hand is killing me, and then I notice it. It appears to be the same condition as eariler in the day at the stop lights, a starvation of fuel. Now I'm afraid the bike is going to stall but I gently work the throttle to keep it going until it gets out of the spell. It does and does well after that but I experience it again about 4 or 5 more times during the journey through the tunnel. It almost seems cyclic and it is not wanting to rev when you turn the throttle but wants to die. It seems to be content to idle and it does not do it all the time, just in this "period". All the other times working the clutch I naturally work the throttle without incident or concern.
I wanted to say this is new, but it is also similar to when I had the exhaust leak and my bike would pop and chug and sometimes die. I just felt that it was the popping issue that so many of us have complained about. So now this is my problem that I'll need to contend with as to why there appears to be a cyclic issue with getting fuel. I only assume this because of the way it acts and gently rolling the throttle will bring this out.
All in all, the Vision performed very, very well in this situation and when we made it through the tunnel, the road was wide open and so I were we. The wife said her feet was getting very, very hot and I assume that was because the mufflers are directly below her feet.
So what is this mysterious cyclic fuel starvation ritual the Vision goes through? Anyone else experience something similar?
Edited by varyder 2009-07-04 5:49 AM
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Visionary
Posts: 3773
Pittsburgh, PA | i wen to my dealer for stalling issues they claimed to of found loose points on my exhausts and claimed to of tighten them. but 6 weeks prior they did the samething. after they claimed to of tightened the exhaust it Stopped stalling... Do you ever run a fuel injection leaner like seafoam? when was the last time the plugs were changed? also i know this has Nothing to do with it at all. but since you reached the 300F mark on the oil temp dipstick. do you think you should change the oil now.? (dont know what brand you use). |
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Visionary
Posts: 8144
New Bohemia, VA | Arky, first happy and safe Independance Day to you! Second, my exhaust leaks were because of imperfections on the mating surface of the header pipes. Pulling the pipes and cleaning them up fix that for me. The exhaust gasket is too stiff to compenstate for these flaws. I replaced the gaskets too.
It has been nearly 2k miles since I changed the oil using Vic 20/40 so yes it is time, I don't have a filter and I want to go with the full syn again.
I was using gumout octane booster in the bike for first few tanks after the 45K but it didn't seem to make a difference. I'm not sure if this problem would be remedied by that as it does seem very cyclic, like every 10 minutes or so while we were in the tunnel. The good times the bike performed very well considering the circumstances. |
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Visionary
Posts: 3773
Pittsburgh, PA | give seafoam a try. i noticed vic sales a cleaner as well. http://www.seafoamsales.com/motor-treatment/why-it-works/index.html |
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Cruiser
Posts: 297
VA | Varyder, if you need a filter and can't get to the dealer, WIX #51356. I read some reviews and they are good filters. It was easier for me to get this then to try to get to the dealer. |
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Visionary
Posts: 1484
LaPorte,Tx. | varyder, any idea what the voltage meter was doing when the bike wanted to die? Seems like every time it wanted to die you were off throttle so the RPM was down. What is your idle RPM?
Don't you just hate that 5mph traffic crawl. I got stuck in traffic in Austin on I-35 for about 7 miles at that speed, puts a workout on the clutch hand. |
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Visionary
Posts: 1340
Gainesville Fl Home of the Gators | VisionTex - 2009-07-04 10:47 AM
varyder, any idea what the voltage meter was doing when the bike wanted to die? Seems like every time it wanted to die you were off throttle so the RPM was down. What is your idle RPM?
Don't you just hate that 5mph traffic crawl. I got stuck in traffic in Austin on I-35 for about 7 miles at that speed, puts a workout on the clutch hand.
Good eye Tex. I'm finding most of the stall issues I see are from loose battery conections on 08-09 bikes. I have not seen any vehicle this sensative in 25 years as a mechanic |
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Visionary
Posts: 3773
Pittsburgh, PA | every time someone posts a tech question i wait for KevinX to post.. Kev you remind me of YODA! lol not so much in looks but in wisdom. .... well, ok maybe in looks too. |
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Visionary
Posts: 8144
New Bohemia, VA | Thanks VT, that would indeed be a good check. However, I've not had charging or voltage issues except the early days and I read between the 14 and 16 mark. The cables are tight, and no, unfortunately I was not reading my gage during that time. I want to say it was too consistant and not arbritary as an issue like that to be. Loose cables or other issues would seen to be on a schedule like this would be and would do it one minute to the next, etc, etc. This almost had a timed effect to it where once it was back on the good, it was good until the next time. It lasted about as long as all the others times as well.
If I rolled on the throttle during this condition it was like a float sticking and I wanted to tap the carburator to free it up. If I held the throttle slightly it would begin to smooth out and rev it up. If I tried to rev it was wanting to die as it did in the previous mention episodes. When it was running good, zero issues even when the engine was scorching hot at 300+, and an honest guess would be actual temp around 310 given the temps are little low on the gage.
One more not, the idle didn't really flucuate like it was going to die, it was seemed to run fine until I would roll on the throttle from an steady idle. It was not a decel and accel action issue.
Hope this helps narrow down. |
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Visionary
Posts: 1436
| varyder, I recall some of the 2000 era Suzuki's having a similar problem. What the guys found was that the engine heat was vapor locking the fuel system due to a faulty fuel cap. You might try running your vision with the fuel cap unscrewed for the day and see if this relieves the issue (yes I know the overflow vent should rectify bt it didn't on the Suzi's so might be worth the try).
You need to be coming up on the fuel filter changes as well if memory serves.
Just tossing out some ideas, good luck. |
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Cruiser
Posts: 125
Kerrville Texas ( now a homeowner on six acres) | Any issue I had with Stalling Or hesitating when accellerating was solved when the dealer replaced the plugs with the Victory reccomended plugs.
Don't know if this will do it for you.
Smadge |
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Visionary
Posts: 1340
Gainesville Fl Home of the Gators | Arkainzeye - 2009-07-04 11:56 AM
every time someone posts a tech question i wait for KevinX to post.. Kev you remind me of YODA! lol not so much in looks but in wisdom. .... well, ok maybe in looks too.
Taller much am I |
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Visionary
Posts: 8144
New Bohemia, VA | I guess to replicate the problem I'll have to go back to the beach on a 90+ day and come back through the stop and go traffic for an hour or more and get the engine to above 250 - 300.
This was distinct, and I can't say it was timed exactly, but it did appear to be cyclic every 10 minutes or so. Vapor lock I believed would have been consistantly starving for fuel for a much longer period of time as I have experience that on other equipment, though many years ago. Also, each 'sode lasted about 2 - 3 seconds and smooth out with no issues until the next 'sode.
I'll check my fuel filter as that has not been replaced in 1,162 gallons of fuel that has passed through it in the past 19 and half months. |
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Tourer
Posts: 432
Gettysburg, 2008 Tour Premium | Fuel filter would show up more in high demand, high speed, when the engine wants to pull fuel. Wether the cables are tight is not always a good indicator of connection but I doubt you will find your culprit there. The fuel cap could be a suspect or even something with the evap emissions system but I heve not looked at how it works. I like seafoam and it works well but generally does not 'FIX' anything. Does your fuel cap ever hiss and let air in the tank when you open it? The evap emissions system sould be covered under a standard emissions warranry mandated by the Gov't. Also on late model harley when the idle is poor cleaning out the IAC air opening to the throttle body with carb cleaner or penetrating oil usually restores the idle and just off idle performance. MY stock Vision does not cough past the throttle bodies but reversion on the Harleys compunds the problem with the IAC port getting dirty, since your bike has had a popping problem in the past if the popping was out past the throttle bodies cleaning out these ports could help. I am not a Victory expert and may be off base but just trying to throw out some idea's based on other bike systems and could possibly relate to this.
Walt |
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Visionary
Posts: 8144
New Bohemia, VA | thanks walt. I think I do need to dump some type of cleaner through the throat to clean it all out good. The butterflys were a tarnished, not heavily, just enough to make them a good brown hue.
My "free" time is rare as I'm involved in some volunteer work and committees so I usually have to wait till the weekend to spend quality time with the bike. I mean, with 46K on 'er right now, it might be time to do more to the engine then just change the oil. |
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Tourer
Posts: 548
Mount Vernon, WA United States | As no one has said it yet...
Keep in mind... It's not always the simple answer. In this case as example, I would start with a check of battery connections (check the ground both at the batter and where it connects to the bike), the throttle bodies, the plugs, the charging system, exhaust leaks and and tank venting. REGARDLESS if I found an issues at one of those points and it "seeemed" to fix the issue.
I see so many posts of either "I did this and it's fixed" or "I did that and it didn't help." It's always a good idea to check everything in the chain, everything that could be in whatever chain of components that "may" be involved in a symptom. Don't just check to see if the symptom is gone, check to see if the problem that caused the symptom is gone. |
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Visionary
Posts: 8144
New Bohemia, VA | Good reminder miles. I'll try to shake it down again this weekend and document findings.
But for the most part, all of the above is done, save changing the fuel filter. Battery cables tight, charging at 15 as always has. All exhaust leaks are gone, finally, and one I'm very glad of. Connnections all seem to be a good connect and a beatin to clean air filter. I'll get a new one tomorrow, as my dealer has been closed more than a week and forgot to get one before they headed out of town.
As mentioned earlier too, the conditions were extreme when it did this little episode, and I was curious as to what would cause the engine to cycle through this problem. It may end up on the list of unknowns as I would have to subject the bike to the same extreme conditions to do it again. Day to day running I notice nothing like I did in the tunnel over the weekend.
I guess it piqued my curiosity more than anything to know more about the gimzomatics of this spaceship. |
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Starving for fuel?
