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victoryvisiontour |
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Iron Butt Posts: 763 Anderson, IN (48mi NE of downtown Indianapolis) | ElroyJ, Do not use the "slim" baffles. Use the regular ones. They have more volume. Even if they were the same volume as the stock enclosures they act as a larger volume because they flex with the speaker cone. The foam baffle can expand to approx 1.25x it's normal size. A larger rigid sealed enclosure would be best, but it would be difficult to fabricate one in the front of the Vision with everything that is in the way. The foam baffle will conform to the shape of the area it is installed. Note: Sometimes the baffle will vibrate against a surface it is touching. If this happens, simply hot glue a small piece of the foam between the baffle and the surface it touches. There will be plenty of left over foam after you trim around the front of the speaker. As for installing rear baffles, a speaker always sounds better when placed in an enclosure rather than an open hole. The difference generally depends on the quality of the speaker. The stock ones will sound better in an enclosure, but they will never sound good because they are not capable of reproducing sound accurately. To get an idea of the sound difference baffles will make with stock rear speakers, simply use the fader control. At low volume, fade to the rear. Put your head directly in the center of the 4 speakers. Crank up the stereo with your fave song but keep it below the distortion point. Listen for a while. Now fade to the front without moving your head (ears). Do this for several songs from different artists since each one records at different levels. The difference you hear will be the minimum improvement by installing a baffles in the rear. Resistance: 2 ohm speakers draw more power from the amplifier making the speaker louder, but at the expense of sound quality. Hawg-Wired offers 2, 4, and 8 ohm speakers. All of their system packages come with 4 ohm speakers because their amps are not 2 ohm stable. Since the Vision uses 2 ohm, you can use 2 ohm or greater. However, going with 4 ohm will only draw half as much power from the amp (theoretically). If V=IR and P=IV then P=I^2xR and P=V^2/R. To put this last formula in words: Power equal Volts squared divided by Resistance. So, you can see that increasing resistance R will decrease power P. The short of the story, running a 4 ohm load on a 2 ohm stable circuit will not harm it because you are only drawing half as much power. Since the Vision amp is 2 ohm stable you might as well take advantage of the extra power you can get with 2 ohm speakers. If you replace the amp, most likely the aftermarket amp will only be stable down to 4 ohm. In this case you must use 4 ohm or greater speakers. The sound quality will be better with a 4 ohm system (assuming everything else is equal). | ||
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| bigwill5150 |
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Iron Butt Posts: 725 Reno County, KS | victoryvisiontour - 2009-12-05 12:53 AM Resistance: 2 ohm speakers draw more power from the amplifier making the speaker louder, but at the expense of sound quality. Hawg-Wired offers 2, 4, and 8 ohm speakers. All of their system packages come with 4 ohm speakers because their amps are not 2 ohm stable. Since the Vision uses 2 ohm, you can use 2 ohm or greater. However, going with 4 ohm will only draw half as much power from the amp (theoretically). If V=IR and P=IV then P=I^2xR and P=V^2/R. To put this last formula in words: Power equal Volts squared divided by Resistance. So, you can see that increasing resistance R will decrease power P. The short of the story, running a 4 ohm load on a 2 ohm stable circuit will not harm it because you are only drawing half as much power. Since the Vision amp is 2 ohm stable you might as well take advantage of the extra power you can get with 2 ohm speakers. If you replace the amp, most likely the aftermarket amp will only be stable down to 4 ohm. In this case you must use 4 ohm or greater speakers. The sound quality will be better with a 4 ohm system (assuming everything else is equal). Look, This is a nice statement in that it's true. Unfortunately, it's also very confusing. I can work Ohm's law forward, backwards, upside down and sideways too. An educated sixth grader can when the fundamentals are taught correctly but why muddy the waters with this junk? I'm not a genious, my grammer is atrocious and I did not stay in a Holiday Inn last night. God help us if it took a genious to work with electrical... I'd be out of a job, thats for sure! Here's the point (It's quite simple). This is so simple that even I can understand it, which is why I teach it this way: Which one can be pushed easier and harder? A. Something that weighs 2 units. B. Something that weighs 4 units. (any given units, in this case we'll call it...Ohms) So then... Which one can an amplifier push easier and harder? A. A speaker that has 2 ohms resistance. B. A speaker that has 4 ohms resistance. Hell, the same basic rules apply to ALL resistance. i.e. What accelerates faster with the same power? A. A bike that weighs only 400 lbs (assuming the rider isn't as fat as I am). B. A bike that weighs the 800 lbs. Hint: If you answered "A" to all these questions, you are right!!! 4 Ohm's Vs. 2 Ohm's resistance: It doesn't sound like much until you forget about the actual numbers themselves and think about them as the ratio that they are. Basically, you have doubled the resistance, which means you have to double to amount of power needed to push it equally. What the hell is "2 Ohm stable"... Well, think about what happens to a motor that only has to push half the amount of weight that it was designed to push... It suddenly is free to push twice as hard. Is this always a good thing when there is nothing in place to stop or regulate it? NO! It will kill itself or something else!!! This is basically the same thing as installing 2 Ohm speakers on an amp built to drive 4 Ohm speakers. It will scream like hell right up to the point that it kills itself. The opposite is true for an amp made to drive 2 Ohm speakers but has 4 Ohm speakers installed. It will do it's best to drive them but they will be weak due to the extra load it has to drive. BTW, this "load" all boils down to how much wire is wound around a magnet. It really is THAT simple. If you're not bored to tears by now, get a life. err. look it up on howstuffworks.com or wikipedia.com. I'm sure both of these will go into more detail than I could ever remember. | ||
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| ElroyJ |
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Tourer Posts: 460 Centennial, CO | VVT and BigWill - I am laffin! Thank you both for the electrical theory (again). Fact is, I did electronics for 6 years in the Navy (Big, you and I talked about that for a bit while you were at the house). The idea that Big put out about 2 units compared to 4 kills me. It is about the same thing that was put to me when going through school. Thanks again, guys! Most appreciated. VVT - Thanks for the advice on the "slim" vs. "regular". I think the fact is, I should just hold off based on your last post. Fact is, I am not going to make a lot out of a pee hole here. So, why not wait until I have the better unit to work with and then make the appropriate changes ONCE rather than doing this work twice. Jim | ||
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| kevinx |
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Visionary Posts: 1340 Gainesville Fl Home of the Gators | Thanks Will | ||
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| cook06vegas |
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Tourer Posts: 373 Lansing, MI | Some good info here! Thanks~ Matt. | ||
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| JustBob |
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Cruiser Posts: 162 Extreme Southern, AZ United States | The 2 ohm is from the vic head unit to the speaker. What is the impedance that the amp accepts? The 4 ohm output of the amp should not make a difference as the amp isolates the speakers from the head unit. If the impedance on the input of the amp is not a big deal, then the impedance of the output of the amp could be 8 ohm or whatever as the amp acts as an isolation device. Now if you use the same speakers then there might be some effect, but if you are replacing the speakers, just make sure you get the rated output of the amp, e.g. 4 ohm. | ||
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| alohaboy |
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Cruiser Posts: 216 Danville, CA | I have the Hawg Wired Set up and am completely satisfied. Paid good $$, but I think its worth it. I think the only way we can all comment is to hear each side by side playing the same song. For me, i went with Hawg Wire because they make amps custom for bikes and are very very very clean. Met owners in Fremont, CA and nice team and guys.. Just my 2 cents.. | ||
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| byufan |
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Puddle Jumper Posts: 39 | At $550 directly from Hawg-wired, this seems to be getting close to justifiable for those that are worried about cutting/splicing wires. It is still $750 from Arlenness and $675 from Cruisercustomizing. I haven't pulled the trigger yet, but I sure am thinking about it with the favorable reviews I have seen here. Edited by byufan 2013-02-05 9:19 PM | ||
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| Turk |
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Iron Butt Posts: 612 | I'm really interested in the Hawg Wired system, but I'm going to wait and see what changes '14 brings to the Vision. Given that I may trade, I want to make sure that the system will still plug and play with the new model. Edited by Turk 2013-02-06 9:42 AM | ||
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| cw1115 |
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Visionary Posts: 1290 Ruskin, Fl | I used the the Polk MM521s. They are 2.7 ohms. If you can't decide, split the difference. Lol | ||
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| AtxVision |
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New user Posts: 2 | victoryvisiontour - 2009-08-29 1:35 AM The stock speakers sounded horrible to me. Actually the whole system was bad. An aftermarket head unit would be hard to find so I settled for an amp and speaker upgrade. I did a bit of research and decided on Hawg Wired. Here are pics and captions of my install. http://picasaweb.google.com/victoryvisiontour/2008VictoryVisionSter... I used the system PSC/CX/CX. This is the PSC3004 amp with 2 sets of CX504-70 component speakers. (I think the CX series speakers have recently been replaced with DX. Not sure what the difference is.) Amp: 75Wx4 Speakers: 70W component Website: www.hawg-wired.com The price is higher than automotive or marine, but you are paying or miniaturization. These amps are tiny. Look at my pics in the link above. I installed all three amps and four crossovers without using any cargo space. A regular amp of the same output will simply not fit on this bike without putting it in the trunk or bags. You can get a much better sounding car or marine system for the same price, but I doubt there is an area big enough to fit a conventional 300W amp on the bike. Then the crossovers for the components need room. If you have the Vision Street model then you will definitely be lacking mounting space. You can use the Arlen Ness (Hawg Wired DCS/SX/V) setup made for the Vision. It is a plug and play system that is easy to install. However, it is a lower power amp and only two channels. So, you will still have the ugly sound coming from the rear speakers. I wanted the best sound possible so I got the 4 channel amp, which has more power per channel, and 4 component speakers. For comparison, I installed the front Hawg Wired speakers and amp, but left the rear stock speakers and head unit in tact. I set the gain on the HW amp to the middle. The crossover mode was set to high-pass and the crossover filter to 150Hz (HW's recommendations). I plugged in my Zune and listened to 10~15 random songs while playing with the fader. At low volume the quality was similar. As I turned it up the difference became quite noticeable. The stock speakers became distorted around 15~18 on the volume control and were intolerable above 25. The Hawg Wired ones stayed clean to around 25 and were still quite tolerable at max setting of 30 on most songs. The HW amp is putting out more power than the stock, so the decibel level (loudness) was much higher coming from the HW speakers. So, not only did they stay clean at a higher volume switch setting, but they were much louder at that particular setting. Stock motorcycle speakers are made of poor quality materials just like stock car speakers. They may sound ok when new, but they will not last. Sure they will continue to "play" for years, but the sound quality will degrade. You may not realize it because it happens slowly over time and you became accustomed to it. You will notice the biggest difference with stock components a couple of years later if you do a side-by-side comparison to a new bike or car with the same system. The new one sounds much better even though the audio equipment is the same. The stock stuff simply wears out quicker (especially speakers). I also replaced the antenna. We all know of the terrible reception from the stock wire. I purchased a Metra 44-UA100 mentioned in another posting: http://www.vision-riders.com/bb/forums/thread-view.asp?tid=1595&pos... I played several FM stations while swapping the stock antenna with the Metra. The Metra made a huge improvement. My favorite station is 25 miles away. The stock antenna will not pick it up at all. The Metra brings it in clear. I had a mast type antenna in the garage so I tried it too. I could pick up even more stations than with the Metra. I didn't want to give up the sleek lines of the Vision with an eye poking whip so I opted for the concealed Metra. To see a pic, click on the link at the beginning of my posting. I had planned from the beginning to install a subwoofer. I was somewhat successful, but not enough to make it worth losing the trunk space. My attempt is described in another posting: http://www.vision-riders.com/bb/forums/thread-view.asp?tid=4163&pos... What have you done to keep water from getting to amps? I want to mount mine in same area but was worried about rain ect... | ||
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| Street Eagle |
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Iron Butt Posts: 691 Manchester, CT | Ok...fun with formulas....I prefer to look at speakers and amp pairing from a Watt and RMS perspective. Oh forgot impedance vs resistance...since we are working with DC the 2 are interchangeable. I may be dating myself but impedance was commonly referenced when it came to audio. Regarding RMS...this is the "absolute" measure of a speaker's power handling capabilities and output. Ideally an amps power rating, frequency range matched to the right set of speakers...which then comes down to what frequency levels a speaker and crossovers ranges for the woofer, midrange and tweeter | ||
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| IndyVision |
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Tourer Posts: 400 | Do you still have this setup? I live by Kokomo and trying to decide if I want to go with the Hawg wired set up | ||
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| IndyVision |
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Tourer Posts: 400 | victoryvisiontour - 2009-08-29 1:35 AM The stock speakers sounded horrible to me. Actually the whole system was bad. An aftermarket head unit would be hard to find so I settled for an amp and speaker upgrade. I did a bit of research and decided on Hawg Wired. Here are pics and captions of my install. http://picasaweb.google.com/victoryvisiontour/2008VictoryVisionSter... I used the system PSC/CX/CX. This is the PSC3004 amp with 2 sets of CX504-70 component speakers. (I think the CX series speakers have recently been replaced with DX. Not sure what the difference is.) Amp: 75Wx4 Speakers: 70W component Website: www.hawg-wired.com The price is higher than automotive or marine, but you are paying or miniaturization. These amps are tiny. Look at my pics in the link above. I installed all three amps and four crossovers without using any cargo space. A regular amp of the same output will simply not fit on this bike without putting it in the trunk or bags. You can get a much better sounding car or marine system for the same price, but I doubt there is an area big enough to fit a conventional 300W amp on the bike. Then the crossovers for the components need room. If you have the Vision Street model then you will definitely be lacking mounting space. You can use the Arlen Ness (Hawg Wired DCS/SX/V) setup made for the Vision. It is a plug and play system that is easy to install. However, it is a lower power amp and only two channels. So, you will still have the ugly sound coming from the rear speakers. I wanted the best sound possible so I got the 4 channel amp, which has more power per channel, and 4 component speakers. For comparison, I installed the front Hawg Wired speakers and amp, but left the rear stock speakers and head unit in tact. I set the gain on the HW amp to the middle. The crossover mode was set to high-pass and the crossover filter to 150Hz (HW's recommendations). I plugged in my Zune and listened to 10~15 random songs while playing with the fader. At low volume the quality was similar. As I turned it up the difference became quite noticeable. The stock speakers became distorted around 15~18 on the volume control and were intolerable above 25. The Hawg Wired ones stayed clean to around 25 and were still quite tolerable at max setting of 30 on most songs. The HW amp is putting out more power than the stock, so the decibel level (loudness) was much higher coming from the HW speakers. So, not only did they stay clean at a higher volume switch setting, but they were much louder at that particular setting. Stock motorcycle speakers are made of poor quality materials just like stock car speakers. They may sound ok when new, but they will not last. Sure they will continue to "play" for years, but the sound quality will degrade. You may not realize it because it happens slowly over time and you became accustomed to it. You will notice the biggest difference with stock components a couple of years later if you do a side-by-side comparison to a new bike or car with the same system. The new one sounds much better even though the audio equipment is the same. The stock stuff simply wears out quicker (especially speakers). I also replaced the antenna. We all know of the terrible reception from the stock wire. I purchased a Metra 44-UA100 mentioned in another posting: http://www.vision-riders.com/bb/forums/thread-view.asp?tid=1595&pos... I played several FM stations while swapping the stock antenna with the Metra. The Metra made a huge improvement. My favorite station is 25 miles away. The stock antenna will not pick it up at all. The Metra brings it in clear. I had a mast type antenna in the garage so I tried it too. I could pick up even more stations than with the Metra. I didn't want to give up the sleek lines of the Vision with an eye poking whip so I opted for the concealed Metra. To see a pic, click on the link at the beginning of my posting. I had planned from the beginning to install a subwoofer. I was somewhat successful, but not enough to make it worth losing the trunk space. My attempt is described in another posting: http://www.vision-riders.com/bb/forums/thread-view.asp?tid=4163&pos... Victoryvisiontour, Do you still have this set up? I am considering the Hawg Wired system that is designed for the Vision, but it is only for the front two speakers. I live just outside Kokomo, so maybe I could see your system? Thanks. | ||
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| IndyVision |
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Tourer Posts: 400 | I must say Mike at Hawg Wired is very helpful. He's responded to all my emails, and I just spent 20 minutes on the phone talking with him about what I need to replace my speakers and add an amp. He gave me all the part numbers and advice and said to call if I have any questions. | ||
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| IndyVision |
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Tourer Posts: 400 | Installed front speakers and an amp this past weekend. BIG difference! | ||
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| shane6727 |
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Cruiser Posts: 154 | How hard was the install? | ||
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| byufan |
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Puddle Jumper Posts: 39 | IndyVision - 2014-03-17 10:03 AM Installed front speakers and an amp this past weekend. BIG difference! Looks like the parts are up to $610. What did you pay, and like Shane asked, how difficult was the install? | ||
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