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Puddle Jumper
Posts: 41
Oviedo, FL | Has anyone purchased the Hawg Wired stereo system yet? Although the price is very prohibitive I would like to know if it is worth the expense? |
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Tourer
Posts: 447
Northeastern Penna. | What is the HAWG wired system? |
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Tourer
Posts: 404
San Antonio, TX United States | http://hawg-wired.com/product_info.php?products_id=82
The above link should take you to the system designed for the Vision. Pricey, but built to plug right in.
If i had the money, i would put it in with out hesitating. |
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Iron Butt
Posts: 935
Rockford, IL | Do some research on Hawg-Wired products. There are quite a few disappointed folks out there who spent good money on a barely ok product. Mostly HD riders. True, there are some who speak highly of the product, but personally I think these are "I spent good money on this system so of course it sounds aweseome" type folks.
From what I've read they take a stock system and make it loud with very minimal thought whatsoever on quailty of sound.
I would tend to think that a locally owned car stereo place (NOT Best Buy or Circuit City or similar) could easily design and install a much better system for the money. |
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Iron Butt
Posts: 935
Rockford, IL | Btw...if you are set on getting the Hawg system it can be had at a lower price here http://www.cruisercustomizing.com/detail.cfm?action=detail&model_ID=123&Category_ID=50&manufacturer_ID=142&product_ID=29729&sblid_name=detail And another btw...I believe that the cruisercustomizing site is owned & ran by someone who goes by the screen name of uwe999...who is a member here.
Edited by Lotzafun 2008-11-17 9:54 PM
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Tourer
Posts: 301
Buffalo Grove,Ill | Ok ive been in the car stereo Biz before, not now but i was. And basically your getting a 120 watt amp and two speaks for 750 ok 675 bucks and if you price the same basic amp and 2 better speaks yourself, you would spend about 300 Hmm |
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Visionary
Posts: 8144
New Bohemia, VA | what's the old saying "There's a sucker born every minute!" Anyway, mine is plently loud and I love my 2 wheel super sonic (or geezer glider) soarer iPod docking station just the way it is. I think I create enough disturbance with the radio volume on 20. I think when I blow these speakers out I'll spend my dollars on some J&M. |
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Puddle Jumper
Posts: 7
| With all the space not being used in the saddle bag area, someone will probably devise a powered subwoofer add-on or some exotic system. J&M - are you listening? |
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Visionary
Posts: 3006
San Antonio, TX | I think that Arlen Ness sells the sub woofer already. |
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Iron Butt
Posts: 725
Reno County, KS | Stryker: I have actaully heard a Hawg Wired upgraded system on a new CVO Harley Road Glide (beautiful bike). The guy took delivery of the bike and his wife couldn't hear the stereo on back, so he had them intsall the new system (he said over $1000 with installation). He said that the new speakers would get a little louder before distorting but they didn't sound any better. He also mentioned that he didn't let them keep the stock speakers so he could put them back in if those blew. Basically, he wouldn't have wasted the money had he known.
Meanwhile, I'm happy with my $90 J&M upgrade. I don't understand why we keep seeing audio amplifier threads popping up. The current stock configuration starts overdrivinig the speakers at about 2/3 volume. I drive a Street, so I don't know exactly how the Tour system peaks out with the additional load of th rear speakers. Being that the radio amplifier is 4 channel, I am betting that it reacts exactly the same with the Tour (although louder with the rear speakers). |
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Tourer
Posts: 377
O'Neill, Nebraska | MichiVision - 2008-11-18 4:00 PM
With all the space not being used in the saddle bag area, someone will probably devise a powered subwoofer add-on or some exotic system. J&M - are you listening?
Now this would be truly cool. The only thing my bike lacks is some bass.
Imagine pulling up to a 'thumping car' at a stop light and flipping that baby on for your Vision. You know it would be too funny! |
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Iron Butt
Posts: 1158
Richmond, Virginia | Just had the ArlenNess HAWG stereo system installed last weekend in my Visn. The speakers are massive compared to the stock
08 and even the new version stock 09. The amp installs under the seat vertically in no space at all. What I noticed right away was that
before i had to volume up to 8-9 to hear music on the stock unit and even at 9 i was getting a ehhhhh sound quality. My Ness system
at 3-4 volume equals what used to be my 8-9 and the sound difference is incredible. Now when I actually change the bass, midrange, and top end I actually hear a difference. Granted the 750.00 plus install is steep for a lot of people, but then you guys chose to have kids college weddings etc, and I didnt so i guess its all in personal choice and perception. the difference is when all of you are old and senile your kids will have to change your diapers, but when i am old and senile, i will just have to sit in my own mess,,listening to
great music ..... You can see the Ness HAWG at www.arlenness.com item V-1260
Edited by VaParadox 2008-11-20 11:00 PM
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Puddle Jumper
Posts: 41
Oviedo, FL | Thanks for all of the very interesting and informative dialog regarding this very subjective subject. Often times when a subject is brought to the members especially in written communication, something gets lost in the translation. Hearing first hand from someone who actually has the system speaks volume. I like to listen to lite rock, Christian rock, and jazz. My radio system and speaker volume is certainly loud enough but the quality of the sound gets distorted when I attempt to increase the bass to really hear the sound of the beat. |
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Iron Butt
Posts: 763
Anderson, IN (48mi NE of downtown Indianapolis) | The stock speakers sounded horrible to me. Actually the whole system was bad. An aftermarket head unit would be hard to find so I settled for an amp and speaker upgrade. I did a bit of research and decided on Hawg Wired. Here are pics and captions of my install.
http://picasaweb.google.com/victoryvisiontour/2008VictoryVisionSter...
I used the system PSC/CX/CX. This is the PSC3004 amp with 2 sets of CX504-70 component speakers. (I think the CX series speakers have recently been replaced with DX. Not sure what the difference is.)
Amp: 75Wx4
Speakers: 70W component
Website: www.hawg-wired.com
The price is higher than automotive or marine, but you are paying or miniaturization. These amps are tiny. Look at my pics in the link above. I installed all three amps and four crossovers without using any cargo space. A regular amp of the same output will simply not fit on this bike without putting it in the trunk or bags. You can get a much better sounding car or marine system for the same price, but I doubt there is an area big enough to fit a conventional 300W amp on the bike. Then the crossovers for the components need room. If you have the Vision Street model then you will definitely be lacking mounting space.
You can use the Arlen Ness (Hawg Wired DCS/SX/V) setup made for the Vision. It is a plug and play system that is easy to install. However, it is a lower power amp and only two channels. So, you will still have the ugly sound coming from the rear speakers. I wanted the best sound possible so I got the 4 channel amp, which has more power per channel, and 4 component speakers.
For comparison, I installed the front Hawg Wired speakers and amp, but left the rear stock speakers and head unit in tact. I set the gain on the HW amp to the middle. The crossover mode was set to high-pass and the crossover filter to 150Hz (HW's recommendations). I plugged in my Zune and listened to 10~15 random songs while playing with the fader. At low volume the quality was similar. As I turned it up the difference became quite noticeable. The stock speakers became distorted around 15~18 on the volume control and were intolerable above 25. The Hawg Wired ones stayed clean to around 25 and were still quite tolerable at max setting of 30 on most songs. The HW amp is putting out more power than the stock, so the decibel level (loudness) was much higher coming from the HW speakers. So, not only did they stay clean at a higher volume switch setting, but they were much louder at that particular setting.
Stock motorcycle speakers are made of poor quality materials just like stock car speakers. They may sound ok when new, but they will not last. Sure they will continue to "play" for years, but the sound quality will degrade. You may not realize it because it happens slowly over time and you became accustomed to it. You will notice the biggest difference with stock components a couple of years later if you do a side-by-side comparison to a new bike or car with the same system. The new one sounds much better even though the audio equipment is the same. The stock stuff simply wears out quicker (especially speakers).
I also replaced the antenna. We all know of the terrible reception from the stock wire. I purchased a Metra 44-UA100 mentioned in another posting:
http://www.vision-riders.com/bb/forums/thread-view.asp?tid=1595&pos...
I played several FM stations while swapping the stock antenna with the Metra. The Metra made a huge improvement. My favorite station is 25 miles away. The stock antenna will not pick it up at all. The Metra brings it in clear. I had a mast type antenna in the garage so I tried it too. I could pick up even more stations than with the Metra. I didn't want to give up the sleek lines of the Vision with an eye poking whip so I opted for the concealed Metra. To see a pic, click on the link at the beginning of my posting.
I had planned from the beginning to install a subwoofer. I was somewhat successful, but not enough to make it worth losing the trunk space. My attempt is described in another posting:
http://www.vision-riders.com/bb/forums/thread-view.asp?tid=4163&pos...
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Tourer
Posts: 366
Albuquerque, NM | Awesome audio system! This system would blow away any stock car audio system to say the least. Just curious...what was the total investment $ for this system? I have experimented with
some miniature amps (2 channel system on my vegas) I am awaiting delivery of my recently purchased 08 Vision and would like to sample the audio system quality before performing any mods.
randy |
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Tourer
Posts: 363
Goldsboro, NC | I don't want louder. That , as has been shown, is easy. All it takes is bucks.
I want the actual unit to be better. I want a decent tuner, bluetooth I/O and a display better than something you'd find on a stamp machine. Maybe something like the programmable hot buttons from calculators. CB should be integrated... or the module should be included. For the console real estate this thing and its buttons takes up, it should be a rocking piece of gear.
I'm toodling along well enough with what I have, but I'd lay down some SERIOUS cash to get what I descibed above. I tunred down an anniversary to make room in my budget for the best upgrades, but have not found anything yet. |
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Tourer
Posts: 366
Albuquerque, NM | I don't believe you have to pay big bucks for a great sounding (powerful) audio system. The Hawg wired stereo system is way overpriced. I found a 75w x 2 miniature audio amp for under $20 last night on ebay. A very compact amp and a set or 2 of high quality speakers that are weather resistant is all that is needed. The amp below may not have the lower distortion numbers of the hawg wild amp but who would notice on a motorcycle audio system while on the road. I used a similar type/size amp on a my first cycle audio system ('86 honda vt700C) with no reliability issues.
ebay search: mini car amplifier
http://cgi.ebay.com/mini-Stereo-Power-Amplifier-Car-Motorcycle-boat...
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Iron Butt
Posts: 725
Reno County, KS | Black08Vision - 2009-10-16 12:59 PM
I don't believe you have to pay big bucks for a great sounding (powerful) audio system. The Hawg wired stereo system is way overpriced. I found a 75w x 2 miniature audio amp for under $20 last night on ebay. A very compact amp and a set or 2 of high quality speakers that are weather resistant is all that is needed. The amp below may not have the lower distortion numbers of the hawg wild amp but who would notice on a motorcycle audio system while on the road. I used a similar type/size amp on a my first cycle audio system ('86 honda vt700C) with no reliability issues.
ebay search: mini car amplifier
http://cgi.ebay.com/mini-Stereo-Power-Amplifier-Car-Motorcycle-boat...
I completely agree that you don't need to spend the kind of money Hawg Wired wants for mediocre results BUT:
The Vision audio system is designed to run 2 Ohm speakers. You're not going to like how this turns out. It can end up screwing up the receiver outputs too. If you're lucky the amp will just fry out, which will probably be the case because the Vision doesn't have a set pre-amp outputs. Basically you'd be injecting an amplified signal into the amplifier thats set up for non-amplified input. It can be safely done but not with this amp.
Said eBay auction:
Output Power: RMS 75 WattsX2CH.(at 14.4V DC) Loading in 4 Ohm Speaker
Here's what I would recommend (if you care): Find you a 4 channel amplifier that's rated to run 2 Ohms stable or less (the rule of thumb here is that the less resistance-rated the amplifier is, the more its gonna cost). If you have a Street Vision instead of a Tour, you will only need a 2 channel amp of course. There is also the possibility that you can run a normal car audio 4 Ohm amp IF you replace the 2 Ohm speakers with 4 Ohm voice coil speakers. This is iffy. I have no idea if this will be transparent to Vision head unit. I wouldn't personally go this route unless I were desperate to upgrade the system and could NOT find 2 Ohm gear.
As far as the inputs go, there are 2 options here:
#1 Find said amplifier with "high level" inputs, which are designed to receive wattage or
#2 Buy whats called a "line out converter". Basically it will take the amplified signal from your head end unit and reduce the power down to an acceptable level for the preamp inputs of the amplifier. You can find one of these on the cheap at Walmart or a larger auto parts store. They all seem to have a bunch of audio doo-dads (technical term) lately at these stores. This is definitely gonna cost you more than the amp on eBay but it will still be much less expensive than the Hawg Wired system. Basically the Hawg Wired system advantage will be that it will be "plug and play" ready with electrical harnesses so you wouldn't have to do any splicing. Hope this helps
-Will |
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Tourer
Posts: 366
Albuquerque, NM | Good info! I should have downloaded the vision manual and done some research before posting. I made the assumption that speakers were 4 ohm. No more posts from me on this subject until I take a look at the manual/stereo system schematics. thanks.
Edited by Black08Vision 2009-10-16 5:24 PM
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Cruiser
Posts: 104
| My 2010 Visions sound system sounds great, receptions is great on AM or FM. I would not change or add to the sound system. |
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Iron Butt
Posts: 725
Reno County, KS | Do us all a huge favor and post a real video to prove it or back off the topic. Based on the fact that you've got a site and a blog, you have enough websense to post a video of your receiver picking up AM/FM reception . If your receiver enigmatically works better than the rest of ours then I want to see it before believing it. We need to take it to Polaris and show them that what to do right.
Edited by bigwill5150 2009-10-17 4:21 AM
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Iron Butt
Posts: 763
Anderson, IN (48mi NE of downtown Indianapolis) | Don't be fooled by the number preceeding the word "WATTS" printed on an amplifier. Quality amps don't usually put that number on their amps. Why? Because it's meaningless. 500 watts out of an amp the size of my hand is not possible at a price 95% of the population can afford. There are several things the cheap manufacturers don't tell you when they rate their amps. What voltage they put to the amp, what the signal level was, bla, bla, bla. They might have gotten 500 watts at 20 volts with an extremely distorted high level input for a milisec before the magic smoke was released from the amp. Advertised power is very deceiving.
What is more important is the sound quality at 12~14 volts which is what your Vision is putting out depending on RMP of the motor. A lot of amps will give you a "continuous" rating which is closer to the actual power you will get. However, this number is often times inflated too. There are many specifications to look at which get too involved for this posting. Basically, you get what you pay for. If you don't care much about music, don't waste your money on upgrades. If you want the symbols to be distinct, the vocals clear, and the bass hits solid, go with a reputable name.
Now for the speakers. The stock front enclosures are too small for most aftermarket speakers. So, car and marine units will not fit. In fact, the upper line Hawg-Wired speakers do not fit. Victory's poor attempt at a speaker baffle must be replaced. If you place a high quality speaker in the hole with no enclosure the sound quality will greatly suffer. So, if you listen to a high dollar system that was not installed properly, it will sound bad. Then you will hear people say, "It doesn't sound like it was worth the money". 75% of the sound quality is in the installation. Motorcycle shops are not the experts at stereo installs. They do the minimum so they can get on the next job. That is not meant to be a negative comment toward bike shops. Look at it this way. Would you take your bike to the stereo&electronics shop for ignition work? They understand electronics, but they are not the experts in that area.
Even if you find speakers to fit in the stock enclosures, the volume is way to small. At a minimum a foam baffle should be used. These can found at
http://www.crutchfield.com/p_237XT55/XTC-5-1-4-Speaker-Baffles-3-3-...
The rear speakers on my 08 Vision had no enclosure at all. Ever notice the front speakers sound better than the rear in stock form? The fronts have enclosures while the rears do not. (Doesn't make any sense to me why Victory did this). So, if you simply replace the rear speaker without adding an enclosure, it will not sound nearly as good as it could. Build an enclosure or stuff a foam baffle in the hole. You will be surprised at the difference.
Another no no the non-experts do is use wire nuts. Wire nuts are for the electrical wire in your house. Never use them on stereo equipment. Use the wire harness that was made for your Vision. If the equipment you chose did not come with harnesses then solder every connection.
If you spent a lot of money on a reputable name brand (and I repeat reputable) the sound quality should be much better than stock. If not, the installation should be questioned.
Don't get in a hurry and short cut critical steps. Do it right. If you spent a lot of money on a good name brand, you should spend a little time installing it in a way that it can reproduce the sound it is capable of reproducing. If you do not have the means to do the install yourself then find a quality installer. You get what you pay for with installers too. Again, if it was a high dollar system and it doesn't sound good, something is wrong with the install. |
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Visionary
Posts: 3204
Memphis | I just clicked on this thread and went to the victoryvisiontour install with pics. Wow, what a great write-up! A killer stereo is pretty far down on my priority list but if I ever get around to upgrading, I'll come here. Thanks. |
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Visionary
Posts: 8144
New Bohemia, VA | i wid u SF, VVT snds lk he kno wat, (or WATTS) he's tlkn abt.... THNKS VVT! |
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Tourer
Posts: 460
Centennial, CO | victoryvisiontour - 2009-12-04 9:23 AM
Victory's poor attempt at a speaker baffle must be replaced. If you place a high quality speaker in the hole with no enclosure the sound quality will greatly suffer.
Even if you find speakers to fit in the stock enclosures, the volume is way to small. At a minimum a foam baffle should be used. These can found at
http://www.crutchfield.com/p_237XT55/XTC-5-1-4-Speaker-Baffles-3-3-...
Build an enclosure or stuff a foam baffle in the hole. You will be surprised at the difference.
VVT - I agree on the wattage issue. Its amazing how many people do not understand what really goes into "true" specifications and what is fiction. Loved learning electronics in the Navy, but damn if that "magic" was lost. I remember looking at things for years as a kid and always thought it was cool how things magically worked.
Now, on to the question(s). I reviewed your installation and loved the detail. Thank you! Knowing this stuff isn't difficult, I am going to tackle this job when I get some extra funds AND TIME.
When you discussed enclosures, I have always known that you need at least something to allow the sound to properly propagate. But here is where I am confused (I am NO sound expert by any stretch), you mention that small ones do not work that well. Uh, ok...but the foam baffles you put in are much smaller than the ridiculous looking design that Victory put in. Is this contradictory or am I just over thinking this?
At any rate, would it be more beneficial to create a new larger enclosure that is sealed? Also, since there is nothing in the rear and knowing that I am not going to be doing any upgrades for a while, I am planning to remove the rear and put at least the foam baffles there. I am assuming based on your thread post that this should make a considerable difference. Given the fact that I am going to continue running stocks speaks for a while is going to this effort going to be worth my time for the sound quality?
One last thing. I noticed someone mentioned that going from 2 to 4 ohms could be detrimental. Impedance is a huge issue. But I can't imagine only 2 ohms making that much of a difference. If so, what is your thought here?
Thanks again for the great pics and detail!
Jim - aka Elvis |
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Hawg Wired Stereo
