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Visionary
Posts: 3006
San Antonio, TX | Here is a video interview of Zacharie Perez that was rear ended in Dallas on the Tollway.
_________________
A Dallas motorcyclist is in good spirits despite being rear ended by a car on the Dallas North Tollway last month.
ZachPerez, 25, says he's 'pretty fortunate' after he was hit from behind by a car heading home for work March 17 on the tollway near Belt Line Road & Arapaho. As traffic slowed, Perez applied his brakes. The car behind him didn't, and it slammed into the bike, launching Perez onto the pavement. At the same time, his motorcycle was crushed between two cars.
"I remember landing. I pushed myself back to the left lane because I landed in the center," he said. "I tried to get up, but there was too much pain. I couldn't get up."
The Iraq War veteran was helpless while sprawled out on the Dallas North Tollway, but he somehow avoided being hit again. Perez said the driver had no driver's license or insurance and despite receiving three tickets, he wasn't arrested.
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Visionary
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New Bohemia, Va | It takes a lot of diligence to check to the rear, in traffic I try keep a fair distance from the car in front so I can "study" the missile behind me. I feel that if I get it, it'll be this way.
Also, watch out, I've noticed a lot of stop and go drivers at the traffic lights. Here's the scenario, the light turns red, the driver stops, makes a quick check and then proceeds before the cross traffic starts to move. I think these people ought to be given the death penalty on the spot. |
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Iron Butt
Posts: 741
Central New York | I think I would have to attempt suing the state. They have demonstrate intention negligence by not arresting the driver to insure they don't endanger the next person. That apparent lack of diligence is probably why the driver was on the road to cause this accident. |
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Puddle Jumper
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Lexington Park MD | To me it looked like the traffic surprised him and he got hard on his brakes because there appears to be smoke coming off the tires. He stopped too fast for the car behind him to react since that car probably wasn't paying attention to the traffic in front either. I'm not saying that it was his fault but maybe if he had been paying more attention to the traffic in-front of the car in-front of him he may not have had to get on the brakes as hard as he did.
In hind-sight he should've left an escape route; in this case to the left of the car in-front of him; so he wasn't sandwiched between the two vehicles.
We only see a short period of time leading up to the accident. As is normally the case there is more to the story
From ABC News http://abcnews.go.com/US/zacharie-perez-survives-dallas-motorcycle-crash-caught-tape/story?id=13458099 "I was about five to 10 minutes from being home. I passed this car, the car that actually rear ended me... As I passed them, the people in front of me started slowing down,"
The unlicensed driver of the car may have been distracted by the pass and didn't react fast enough. I know I always worry if I pass someone and have to get on the brakes right away even if I'm in the cage. Again I am NOT saying it was the bikers fault, just adding one more piece to consider.
From the same article
The driver of the car that hit Perez was driving with no license and no insurance. Perez is upset that he wasn't arrested.
"It just baffles me�I think he should have got arrested," he said.
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Visionary
Posts: 1359
New Bohemia, Va | You are killing me. The bike would have been at fault if he rearended the car in front on his own. The car behind him is clearly at fault, surprised or not. 2 second rule still applies and paying attention is a must. |
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Puddle Jumper
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Lexington Park MD | I guess I should've said "I'm not saying the biker is at fault" three times instead of just twice 
The biker was rear-ended and it was clearly the cars fault. But that is NOT what I'm talking about.
I'm talking about how to avoid the accident even if it isn't your fault.
One of my favorite quotes was on the Daytona Motorcycle School Training website
"Your alertness is worth more than all the flashing lights in Vegas. As a motor cop once said, "I could give a damn if they see me, if I see them they won't get me and I always see them". When riding, your job is to see them and any potential hazard before it becomes a hazard, even if they don't see you. "
Even if I'm in the right I don't want to be dead right. |
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Visionary
Posts: 3006
San Antonio, TX | Below is a video I cannot embed. It has the rider explaining the actions of the driver before the wreck. Basically the driver was driving erratically.
The driver of the car had no driver's license and no insurance. This is enough to tell me that the driver was not a model citizen nor a very good driver.
He did not attempt to slow down until right before the collision. Clearly he was not very attentive.
The bike slowed down a little faster than the pickup truck beside him. I am very impressed with the stopping distance of the Jeep behind the white SUV.
When we see drivers driving like this we all have to make a choice. We can get a round them and put some distance between them and you or back off and let them go. I have done both.....I am betting that we all make that choice almost every ride.
It typical Dallas style the road does not have a shoulder on either side, going in the direction of the riders traffic. With a truck beside him and the wall to the left the rider was stuck between a rock and a hard place.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TLeF_aP4Gb8
Here is a different interview and a picture of his helmet. I know it will be hard but lets try to focus on the rider and the accident and not the wife-to-be's attitude towards riding again.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wptWHqDZFAE
Edited by radioteacher 2011-05-04 6:50 PM
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Puddle Jumper
Posts: 29
Lexington Park MD | BTW, for the FOURTH time I AM NOT SAYING IT WAS THE BIKERS FAULT!!!!!?The driver was 100% absolutely at fault; no if ands or buts. That fact is not whats important though. What is important is how to stay alive on the road; not ranting and raving about how bad cagers drive. From the first video:
"They were braking in front of me for no appearent reason...it seemed like they were dancing in their car"
That is not someone I would want behind me in heavy traffic.
I am always on the lookout for people who are doing something other than driving behind the wheel even when I'm in my cage. Seperate yourself from people like that?yes but not by getting directly in front of someone you have absolutely no doubt is not driving like they should.
Edited by Goatlocker95 2011-05-04 7:17 PM
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Visionary
Posts: 3006
San Antonio, TX | Goatlocker95 - 2011-05-04 7:15 PM
I am always on the lookout for people who are doing something other than driving behind the wheel even when I'm in my cage. Separate yourself from people like that....
I could not agree more. The more cars or heavy trucks I have between my Vision and those drivers...the better I feel. If I pass them, I usually do it in a deliberate manner.
Ride Safe
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Visionary
Posts: 1359
New Bohemia, Va | "To me it looked like the traffic surprised him and he got hard on his brakes because there appears to be smoke coming off the tires. He stopped too fast for the car behind him to react since that car probably wasn't paying attention to the traffic in front either. I'm not saying that it was his fault but maybe if he had been paying more attention to the traffic in-front of the car in-front of him he may not have had to get on the brakes as hard as he did."
g - I'm really trying to get past these comments and you saying he was not at fault.
I've reexamine the video a few more times and the only thing that I may have done different would have rode up against the jersey wall to give the car behind the opportunity to go to the right to avoid contact. I usually ride in the far left part of the lane, next to the stripe so I can shoot past the car ahead in case the car behind won't stop if we all stop. I always ride with escape in mind, but so far I can't think of a real time that I needed to use it.
The bike was boxed in by the pickup leaving only that little bit of room to escape next to the jersey wall. In traffic like that the only thing you can really do is try to get out before something like that happens or take a different route, but how do you know?
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Visionary
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San Antonio, TX | Cap'n Nemo - 2011-05-04 7:59 PM
The bike was boxed in by the pickup leaving only that little bit of room to escape next to the jersey wall. In traffic like that the only thing you can really do is try to get out before something like that happens or take a different route, but how do you know?
Cap'n,
That is a great question....how does one know? My answer is that I got with my gut. Sometimes it is right and unfortunately sometimes it is wrong. So far, I have been lucky when I have been wrong...at least lucky enough to avoid the hospital.
Every time I ride and also when I drive I am looking for the problem.
If I see that the car in front of me is swerving in morning...I then notice that the driver is putting on makeup...they just got tagged as the person most likely to kill me at that time. I try not to focus only on them because they (those that want to kill me)ride in packs. I scan around and see who else is a problem like the people in a hurry trying to pass the makeup artist.
Often I lay back and let them go by me but sometimes...if I have the room to escape the pack I leave them all behind.
Use your head and Ride Safe one and all.
Edited by radioteacher 2011-05-04 9:59 PM
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Puddle Jumper
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Lexington Park MD | Cap'n Nemo - 2011-05-04 8:59 PM
g - I'm really trying to get past these comments and you saying he was not at fault.
I don't understand why???
There is a HUGE difference between causing an accident and not taking steps to avoid one.
The biker did not cause the accident, the car behind him not stopping in time did. However that doesn't mean there aren't thing the biker could've done to AVOID the accident.
First thing is the biker even said that he recognized the driver of the car was not paying attention to their driving. In that much traffic the absolute WORST place for the biker would be in front of the car. Staying behind him with them braking for no apparent reason wasn't much better. However at least behind him you can keep your eye on him better than from in front. The best thing would be to put a few metal cages between you and them. If traffic in front won't let you do that by passing than fall back a car or two. The detour to the hospital added more than just the couple of minutes he would've lost had he fallen back or moved over. I've been in similar situations and have passed the car as soon as there was an opening. When traffic slowed I was watching the car behind me like a hawk and looking for a way to put more distance between them and me. Luckily that time the car didn't run up my backside. Next time I'm in that situation I may treat it differently because of what happened during this accident. Second, I would assume that the biker was more worried about the car he was passing than the traffic in front of him. I wasn't there so I can't say for sure but the smoke from his tires indicates a panic stop. If he had more control of the situation where he wasn't panic braking he might've kept a better eye on his mirror and seen the cager wasn't going to stop. He still had more room between him and the car in front of him to work with. Maybe he could've swerved left or right or a few other evasive maneuvers. But he was too busy worrying about hitting the car in front than being hit by the car behind.
Maybe the only way to have avoided this accident was have not been on the road at all. People are being rear ended all the time. In a car most times all that happens is you have to repair bent metal. On a bike most time you have to repair broken bones and damaged flesh. All I'm saying is to look at an accident and think about what you may have done differently. Not to pass judgement but to learn. That way if you see a similar situation you have a little bit more knowledge on what might happen and how you might be able to avoid it.
Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it.
-George Santayana, 1863�1953, American philosopher
Study the past if you would divine the future.
-Confucius, Chinese philosopher, 500's B.C.
The only thing new in this world is the history you don't know.
-Harry S. Truman, American President |
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Tourer
Posts: 353
| Goatlocker95 - 2011-05-04 1:26 PM
To me it looked like the traffic surprised him and he got hard on his brakes because there appears to be smoke coming off the tires. He stopped too fast for the car behind him to react since that car probably wasn't paying attention to the traffic in front either.
That doesn't make sense! That's placing blame on the motorcyclist who's only real mistake had little to do with his braking and more so on not giving himself an escape. The car behind him would have wound up hitting the car in front even if the motorcyclist had gotten out of the way.
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Visionary
Posts: 1359
New Bohemia, Va | This is another lesson learned for the readers. There are way too many varibles involved in this situation, that as RT and I haven't pointed it boils down to intuition. I've never recommended to anyone to ride by intuition. Rush hour traffic is the worse unless you are headed for a Cream concert, so the first thing I would recommended for anyone is to cage to work. IF I was there I MIGHT have done one other thing if I had noticed to situation two or three cars ahead. There was opportunity to quickly accelerate past the white truck and moved into that lane. The problem is there as well he would have taken another chance that would have pegged him at fault should he had gotten clipped by the truck or if a car in front tried the same thing at the same time.
To further comment on my intuition comment - I will say it plays a part in it, and I believe the more skilled you are controlling your machine and prudent in your decision in riding, that will come to you. It takes years of reading driver behavior while riding. Interestingly enough, when I drive, and even during the years when I wasn't riding I study how people drive, especially regional. Oddly, in Houston, despite the close quarter riding, I felt safer than I would have if I had been in say, Baltimore. Why? Because they used their turn-signals and meant it. It seemed to be an understood courtesy when turn-signal come on that it was a request, but an intention to be carried out. Okay, read all, relook the video a hundred more times and try and figure out what you really would have done. He was in a pickle that may have been avoided, but a scenario that plays out all too often. |
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Visionary
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New Bohemia, Va | ...too early to write... Second sentence should have read: There are way too many varibles involved in this situation, beyond those that as RT and I have already pointed out, it boils down to intuition. |
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Visionary
Posts: 3006
San Antonio, TX | Cap'n,
Every morning I do not even attempt to communicate with the wife until she has at least one cup of coffee.
Today's ride to work.
I was at the back of a pack of cars with no traffic for a quarter of a mile behind me. I liked that spot and kept it for that part of my trip.
When I turned to go south on the next stretch of four lane road I merged with heavy traffic. I have over a mile to change lanes from right to the left so I can make a left. I checked out those driving in the left lane since the right was moving faster.
I found a nice spot to move over in front of the car I was passing. As I passed I noticed that the driver was looking down and eating a breakfast bar that she held in the same hand as the steering wheel.
To say the least I backed off and got behind her instead. I made my left and made it work without incident.
Life is good!
Ride Safe! |
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Visionary
Posts: 1359
New Bohemia, Va | Now that I'm awake and had my second cup of coffee, I'll say we ride about the same in the same type of conditions. There has been twice that I could have been rearended by the little honda cars on the turnpike at a traffic light. One of the times, imagine three lanes and the center lane is clear, I'm up front in the right lane behind another car, and I have a punk in his spoilered honda car buzzing a little behind me. The light turns yellow and I check in the center lane which is clear so I merge to that lane to be at the light in front when it turns green again. The honda car must have thought I was running the light and came in behind me, only to find me slowing as he was speeding up. I'm watching him to see what his movement/distance is as he slams on his brakes to keep from hitting me. I'm ready to move up as he comes to a halt right behind me. Everything happened to fast to manuever anywhere but I would have run up the light in front of the car in the right lane had he would not have been able to stop. All I can say is he was probably both mad and cleaning his drawers out as I was patiently waiting for the light to turn green. |
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Puddle Jumper
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Lexington Park MD | tralphaz - 2011-05-05 3:59 AM
That doesn't make sense! That's placing blame on the motorcyclist who's only real mistake had little to do with his braking and more so on not giving himself an escape. The car behind him would have wound up hitting the car in front even if the motorcyclist had gotten out of the way.
OMG you are absolutely clueless aren't you!!! I NEVER PLACED THE BLAME OF THE ACCIDENT ON THE RIDER!!! What you fail to understand is that accidents are NOT caused by a single event; instead they occur at the culmination of a series of event known as the "Accident Chain of Events". Breaking any one of the links in the chain prevents the accident from happening.
You're right; the car behind him would have wound up hitting the car in front even if the motorcycle had gotten out of the way. SO WHAT; WHO CARES!!!! That would've ended up as a fender bender not with a rider in the hospital. I'm talking about what the rider could do to keep from being caught in the middle.
If you really want to try and understand read chapter II of the MSF's BRC course http://www.greenbergaccidentlawyer.com/motorcycle-accidents-common-...
Or you can take the California Web Traffic School; specificly section 1.4 http://www.webtrafficschool.com/wts/content/California/s1_4ca_Movie...
You could also Google it http://lmgtfy.com/?q=motorcycle+accident+chain+of+events
Or you can continue to ride around bad mouthing cagers and thanking God it didn't happen to you...until it does.
Good Luck and Ride Safe.
Sorry for the rant but I am tired of people saying that I am blaming the rider for causing the accident.  |
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Visionary
Posts: 1359
New Bohemia, Va | Chain of events:
Car slows down in front, biker brakes a little hard to ensure he does not rearend the car in front, illegial driver behind is not paying attention and rearends the biker, nearly killing him and gets off with a slap on the wrist. At best the driver of the car should have been arrested for attempted manslaughter if there is such a thing.
I still can't get past "He stopped too fast for the car behind him to react..." There is no such thing... you are putting the blame on the one in front for every tailgater on the road, and everyone who is not paying attention to the road...
One reason I'm making an issue of this, I actually hear people argue how right they were when they guy in front had to stop quickly and rearend them. They even will swear they where keeping their distance and was paying attention, BUT THE GUY IN FRONT STOPPED TOO QUICK SO IT WAS THEIR FAULT.
I will not dispute we must be a defensive rider, and ride as though they don't see us, or they see us and want to intentially kill us with their stupidity. Taking blame will not bring someone back from the dead or restore them to their old self, but it needs to be identified and dealt with accordingly. A lot of the reason folks drive like they do is there is no punishment, or it is not harsh enough to get peoples attention. People here in Virginia now believe it is okay to drive holding a cellphone to their ear while driving because a law did not go through to make talking on a cellphone without a handsfree device illegial. What burns my buns is there is laws already on the book for distracted driving on several levels that this is easily covered by. So now people everywhere are using their cellphones at an alarming rate, weaving down the road, running off the road, and having more and more accidents including single car accidents, losing life because they can't wait a minute to call or text someone. Maybe that is what that illegial was doing...
Edited by Cap'n Nemo 2011-05-05 2:19 PM
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Puddle Jumper
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Lexington Park MD | You missed the first Chain of Events that I know of in this incident and there may be others that havent' come out.
Biker passes and pulls in front of a driver he knows is being inattentive.
Now that does not excuse the driver of the car who hit him. The driver failed to control his vehicle and should be held fully accountable ESPECIALLY because he doesn't have a license and shouldn't have been driving in the first place. That driver should be spending time in jail or at least community service. The only way punishment works is to make it painful.
As for the comment:Cap'n Nemo - 2011-05-05 3:00 PM
I still can't get past "He stopped too fast for the car behind him to react..." There is no such thing... you are putting the blame on the one in front for every tailgater on the road, and everyone who is not paying attention to the road......
You need to look at my ENTIRE comment
"To me it looked like the traffic surprised him and he got hard on his brakes because there appears to be smoke coming off the tires. He stopped too fast for the car behind him to react since that car probably wasn't paying attention to the traffic in front either" Just like a tailgater, a driver on the phone, adjusting the radio, yelling at the kids, or any of a hundred other distractions it is that drivers responsibility to control their vehicle. I completely recognize that the driver who hit him was 100% at fault. The biker didn't do anything that he was required to do by law and is 100% innocent in the eyes of the law. That doesn't mean that there wasn't anything the biker could've done to avoid it. I again go back to the quote from the motor officer I posted earlier "I could give a damn if they see me, if I see them they won't get me and I always see them".
Cap'n Nemo - 2011-05-05 3:00 PM
I will not dispute we must be a defensive rider, and ride as though they don't see us, or they see us and want to intentially kill us with their stupidity. Taking blame will not bring someone back from the dead or restore them to their old self, but it needs to be identified and dealt with accordingly. A lot of the reason folks drive like they do is there is no punishment, or it is not harsh enough to get peoples attention. People here in Virginia now believe it is okay to drive holding a cellphone to their ear while driving because a law did not go through to make talking on a cellphone without a handsfree device illegial. What burns my buns is there is laws already on the book for distracted driving on several levels that this is easily covered by. So now people everywhere are using their cellphones at an alarming rate, weaving down the road, running off the road, and having more and more accidents including single car accidents, losing life because they can't wait a minute to call or text someone. Maybe that is what that illegial was doing...Agree 100%
Ride Safe |
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Tourer
Posts: 353
| Goatlocker95 - 2011-05-05 9:19 AM
tralphaz - 2011-05-05 3:59 AM
That doesn't make sense! That's placing blame on the motorcyclist who's only real mistake had little to do with his braking and more so on not giving himself an escape. The car behind him would have wound up hitting the car in front even if the motorcyclist had gotten out of the way.
OMG you are absolutely clueless aren't you!!! I NEVER PLACED THE BLAME OF THE ACCIDENT ON THE RIDER!!! Sorry for the rant but I am tired of people saying that I am blaming the rider for causing the accident.
Actually I'm not clueless, my comment had everything to do with your remark "He stopped too fast for the car behind him to react", think about it, multiple people saying that you are blaming the rider for causing the accident means we all read the same thing so maybe the issue is not our comprehension skills. |
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Puddle Jumper
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Lexington Park MD | I guess you didn't read my last reply to Cap'n Nemo huh.
Ride Safe |
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Puddle Jumper
Posts: 29
Lexington Park MD | Tell ya what; maybe you think that I'm attacking this particular rider so I will try to explain what I'm saying using a personal example.
I was traveling down a two lane road behind a large SUV (I think it was a Suburban but can't remember for sure). We were approaching a traffic light that was green in our direction. I noticed there was another car traveling the opposite direction that was waiting to turn left. As we approached the intersection the SUV moved to the right turn lane and I also noticed a van rapidly approach and stop at the cross traffic light (which was red in her direction).
Due to the size of the SUV and the apparent hurry the driver of the van was in I fully expected her to violate my right of way and make a right turn from red in front of me. I did not have an escape route to the left because of the car waiting to make a left turn so I moved as far left as I could to increase my visibility to the van around the SUV; covered my clutch and brakes and flashed my brakes to warn the driver behind me.
The driver of the van did start to make the right turn in front of me but stopped abruptly when she saw me. Had the driver of the van completed her turn in front of me I am fully confident I could have stopped and the vehicle behind me was far enough away to have been able to stop in time as well.
Now let's say that I was oblivious to the traffic around me and traveled in my lane through the green light unprepared to stop. And let's further say that the driver of the van had not seen me and had completed her right turn. Most likely I would've been involved in an accident or at least would've caused me to test the evasive maneuvers I've learned.
Had that accident happened it would have clearly been the driver of the van's fault. She had the responsibility to stop and ensure the road was clear before proceeding. However, as a biker I would've faired MUCH worse as a result. I choose to take the extra steps to attempt to avoid putting myself into a position where I relied on the driver of the van doing the right thing to avoid an accident.
That being said, I also concede that this can be a dangerous attitude. I just received my June 2011 copy of Motorcycle Consumer News magazine. In the "Motorcycle Justice" section is a question answered by a lawyer. Here is a link to this section of the magazine but the site hasn't been updated for the June question yet http://www.motorcyclejustice.com/law/reader_questions.html
The writer states he was slowing while approaching a red light but the light turned green so he rolled on the throttle. A woman turned left in front of him of him and he ended up going through her windshield. He lost all memory of event immediately prior to the accident. The woman stated that she didn't see him and she had the green arrow. Another witness stated the light turned green immediately after the crash. The Reconstructionist stated that the woman did not have the green. The biker was unable to give testimony since he was unable to remember what happened and therefore was forced to rely on "expert" testimony.
Even so the jury found the accident was the bikers fault because a "motorcycle expert" gave testimony that the biker should've anticipated the woman turning left and avoided the accident even though the woman violated the biker's right of way. They also stated it was the biker's fault because he was not wearing reflective clothing.
In his answer the lawyer stated the results are all too common mainly because juries tend to not believe bikers. He went on to say that motorcyclists are often held to a higher standard and that sometimes justice is denied.
That being said I continue to emphatically state the biker in both accounts was not the cause of the accident; but just like the jury in the case above, I understand how someone might misconstrue my statement and think I am finding the biker at fault. Just because you MIGHT be able to take steps to avoid an accident doesn't mean you are RESPONSIBLE to take those actions.
I also continue to believe that bikers are NOT at the mercy of cagers to avoid an accident. I do believe that drivers and bikers have the ability to compensate for the incompetence of others to avoid an accident that otherwise would have been the fault of others.
If you choose to rely on the actions of others to avoid accidents regardless of whose fault then all I can say is I hope your luck continues to hold out.
Peace
BTW tralphaz, I realize that you can technically state that more than one is "multiple" people but I hardly think that two people (you and Cap'n Nemo) makes a consensus in the ability to comprehend my statement
Edited by Goatlocker95 2011-05-15 6:34 PM
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Tourer
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New Mexico | I was thinking about this video while on a recent ride to Seattle and back. Had a couple of close calls as there always are out on the road.
There are many factors that kept us safe, one of those being my loud pipes. In some traffic situations I keep the rpms/noise level high to help the other drivers remain aware of where I am. I would propose if this guy had loud pipes, perhaps the car behind him might have noticed a change in sound and been able to stop instead of slamming into him.
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Cruiser
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Edmonton AB, Canada | As a motorcycle riding instructor up here in Canada I can tell you that one of the first skills we teach is checking behind right after stopping. The idea is that every time a rider stops they are in first gear ready to go if something is coming. In a case like this one where the unlicensed driver was not really paying attention the correct riding lane position is to be directly in front of the drivers line of sight. It's important to pick your spot in the lane based on conditions and visibility. It's never a good idea to simply always ride in the same lane because "that's where bikes are supposed to be". The real issue here of course is that the unlicensed driver is an accident waiting to happen and should be charged accordingly. |
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Check behind you...Rider hit on video
