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Tourer
Posts: 432
Gettysburg, 2008 Tour Premium | I have everything except cams and I have a question for people with cams in there bikes. I have been hesitant to add cams because Lloyd actually said that no addl. power is to had with cams until after 3500 RPM. I have found that the tune between IAV, Lloyds ECM and fuel controller, Lloyds aux air filter and my pipes ( CFR) is just a little touchy. I have it set the best it ever has been and gets 40-42 consistently. My question is: is the bike better at all RPMS and throttle settings with or without the cams. I know where the horsepower is and that is great but is there any sacrifice in drivability? |
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Cruiser
Posts: 141
| Imagine if you will a lone motorcycle in a sea of automobiles traveling a unnamed interstate highway. Time and space are closing in until an opening is seen like the board in a checkers game. The only way out is to twist the throttle to see the path to freedom. This lone traveler never imagined how clear the path would become until he enterd the Vision Zone.
Seriously...Cams are phenominal across the board. and I get 40-42mpg |
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Tourer
Posts: 309
Vineland, NJ United States | I don't know what my dyno numbers are but I got my cams/intake plate/VCM at about 5,000 miles, now have 15,000 miles and the power and response was immediately noticeble in all gears at all speeds. I ride double and pull a trailer and I notice the difference well before 3,500 RPMs. The only adverse thing I have (and it's mild) is a decel pop occaissionally. I am very pleased and would do it again in a heart beat. I can also tell you I ride with a friend who has a Kaw Vulcan 1700 and prior to my cams he could stay with me on hard acceleration starts, now I consistently pull a way from him even with my passenger. I know that's not very technical but he is the one who commented to me that he can't keep up on hard starts like 0 to 80. |
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Cruiser
Posts: 132
New York | Digby - 2011-07-26 10:21 PM
Imagine if you will a lone motorcycle in a sea of automobiles traveling a unnamed interstate highway. Time and space are closing in until an opening is seen like the board in a checkers game. The only way out is to twist the throttle to see the path to freedom. This lone traveler never imagined how clear the path would become until he enterd the Vision Zone.
Seriously...Cams are phenominal across the board. and I get 40-42mpg
Yes, and this is why I wanted the extra power the cams offer!...However, I notice a difference across the board in the way the Vision runs... plus my gas mpg seems to be even better, as long as I'm not WOT all the time.. |
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Cruiser
Posts: 216
Danville, CA | Agree 100% with above... My vision rides great in all gears and speeds.. Max Power 119hp, Max Torque 116. I run Thunderheader, Thunderstix... Awesome aggressive growl |
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Visionary
Posts: 3204
Memphis | Your mileage will probably stay the same because you will ride faster with the cams. Theoretically, your mileage will improve if you ride exactly the same way you do now, but I have never met a "cammer" that rides the same way as before. The sweet spot for my bike is 77 mph in 6th gear. It still gets over 40 mpg and is right on the edge of the powerband for a strong roll-on. This is why you will ride faster. It's just more comfortable there. Riding two up or towing a trailer through mountains is much easier on the cammed motor. See how long it takes for your stock Vision to go from 3500 rpm to the rev-limiter. On my bike it takes less than 2 seconds. I don't hot-rod my bike at all. (I raced Pollolittle once just to show him the difference.) It just seems like I'm hot-rodding to the people I am blowing past, but from my perspective on the bike it is right in the middle of my comfort zone.
Edited by SongFan 2011-07-27 9:53 AM
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Visionary
Posts: 1350
| You have a good question. Most of the ones replying seem to have all the stuff done at the same time it would appear that what you had done provides the power at the lower RPMs and then cams show themselves above 3500 like Lloyd said. I trust what Lloyd said. How often do you go above 3500?
Hopefully you get a reply from someone that has done like you and better supply you the answer you are looking for, had everything else for a few thousand miles and then had the cams. |
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Visionary
Posts: 2118
Pitt Meadows, BC Canada | My old Virago 1100 would pull hard in ANY gear from 1000 RPM without complaint - no bucking or vibration of ANY kind.
This was NOT true of my VV. Anything under 1800 RPM - it just plain didn't like. NOT so with the cams - now it is happy over 1100 RPM in any gear.
The cams give much better power delivery right thru from 1100 to redline. MUCH better ....
And, my bike gets worse mileage than a semi-tractor trailer - BECAUSE - it's so much fun I turn the shortest trip into a long one. So 'cost of gas' just plain doesn't interest me - I would burn it no matter how much it cost. But cost/mile is the same as far as I can guess before/after cams. I only know this because I get about the same 'mileage' out of a tank of gas that I did before the cams - whatever that means. I just plain don't care!!!
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Visionary
Posts: 2118
Pitt Meadows, BC Canada | Oh yeah - Lloyd is right about HORSEPOWER, but V-Twins are about TORQUE ! It produces maximum torque now at just above idle - flat across the rpm band to redline. So it is the higher torque that gives the cammed motor a much more satisfying ride.
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Cruiser
Posts: 69
AZ | donetracey - 2011-07-27 1:13 PM
My old Virago 1100 would pull hard in ANY gear from 1000 RPM without complaint - no bucking or vibration of ANY kind.
This was NOT true of my VV. Anything under 1800 RPM - it just plain didn't like. NOT so with the cams - now it is happy over 1100 RPM in any gear.
The cams give much better power delivery right thru from 1100 to redline. MUCH better ....
I'm cruiser/touring style rider and unless I'm passing some one I live between idle and 3500 rpms so I am glad to hear your response. Starting around 1500/1800 is where I want to feel the cam "kick in"...not at 3500rpms.
Does anyone else's experience mirror donetracey's ??
regards, |
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Visionary
Posts: 2300
Georgia, west of Atlanta | Do it, you'll love it............ |
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Visionary
Posts: 4278
| Cams what are they good for?????
Well it gives you the ease of going up a hill or going around a truck or pass a car. Its like if your weight was 75 pounds lighter you could go up and down steps with out running out of breath.
Does cams destroy your gas mileage thats up to you. Yes cams use more fuel but then if you don't have a heavy hand you'll do just fine.
Cams are fun exciting you'll like them if you get them. |
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Cruiser
Posts: 189
Baltimore, Md | Personally, I think 1500 is kind of low for anything more than normal roll-on. My '08 likes to be at about 2000 for any serious throttle application. It just feels a bit like lugging down at 1500 to me, so I go easy there. The visceral thrill of the acceleration with the cams above 2000 is very obvious once you ride one. It really gets going and stays strong all the way across the power band after that. |
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Iron Butt
Posts: 1117
Northeast Ohio | What everyone else said + you will blow past 3500 RPMs so fast, it won't matter. My goal for the Vision was to make it at least as fast as my Stage 1 2007 Kingpin (100ci). Regardless of the low-end power, don't you want more above 3500 RPM? There really isn't any compromises with Lloyd's cams. They are perfect for our bikes and should have come from the factory this way. |
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Tourer
Posts: 575
Spirit Lake IA "Birthplace of Victory Motorcycles" | Anyone get the new cams installed? Any difference in performance? Should be a lower install price. Anyone shed any light? |
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Tourer
Posts: 432
Gettysburg, 2008 Tour Premium | My question was to find out if those with cammed bikes experienced any drivability issues at lower RPM's. I believe that the touchy issue getting everything dialed in would be actually reduced with a cam that actually had some overlap vs. a EPA cam designed with no overlap at all. I am trying to get a feel on the overall running of a engine with cams. My bike does real good on the highway, I have no doubt a cam would give and advantage there. PA also has miles of two lane that has posted speeds of 45-55 MPH. I need a bike that is at home on both hence my question has more to do with is there a drawback. I hope ScoreBo is right " They are perfect for our bikes and should have come from the factory this way." |
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Puddle Jumper
Posts: 40
| I've got the equivant of a stage 3 set up on my 09 Vision. 114 S & S kit. Anderews cams, air box, tuner the whole nine. At 3500 the power is unreal for a 900 lb. touring bike. "He" makes peak torque at 4000 rpm 140 ftlb as dynoed. If you got the bread to do it you deside. Our Visons are touring bikes not sport bikes but man it sure is fun!!! |
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Cruiser
Posts: 81
Salinas, Ca. | Well, I have no driveability issues whatsoever! EVERYTHING, felt improved after getting cams installed. I agree with ScoreBo 100%. These bikes should come from the factory this way!! |
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Cruiser
Posts: 132
New York | Man314 - 2011-07-27 11:34 PM
Anyone get the new cams installed? Any difference in performance? Should be a lower install price. Anyone shed any light?
I've had the new cams installed just recently...The VM1-DR cams cost $495.00 and are a drop-in type cams for the 09-up Victorys...And Yes, the performance has changed for the better!!  ... I would highly recommend the new cam set up without any reservations.. |
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Cruiser
Posts: 189
Baltimore, Md | wroman - 2011-07-27 10:41 PM My question was to find out if those with cammed bikes experienced any drivability issues at lower RPM's. I believe that the touchy issue getting everything dialed in would be actually reduced with a cam that actually had some overlap vs. a EPA cam designed with no overlap at all. I am trying to get a feel on the overall running of a engine with cams. My bike does real good on the highway, I have no doubt a cam would give and advantage there. PA also has miles of two lane that has posted speeds of 45-55 MPH. I need a bike that is at home on both hence my question has more to do with is there a drawback. I hope ScoreBo is right " They are perfect for our bikes and should have come from the factory this way." I attempted to include that in my posted reply above. To be more clear, while I can't give you stats on exactly when (in RPM) the cams are doing their thing, I can say without hesitation that on my '08 S1L1 with Lloyd's cams, fuel controller and air intake, that the bike is "at home" in all ranges from 2000 to buck-your-ass-off at redline. The improvement in performance is great and only matched by the ever widening smile on your face (though some of that could be from the increased G-forces pulling your lips back). Now if I could only get rid of the damn backfiring/popping (unrelated to the Lloyds improvements).
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Cruiser
Posts: 130
Houston, Tx | Good god I can't wait until I get cams installed ........ just need a few people to commit and Kevin to get 'em in stock and fly to Tx for a cam party !!!!
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Visionary
Posts: 2118
Pitt Meadows, BC Canada | flint350 - 2011-07-28 10:33 AM Now if I could only get rid of the damn backfiring/popping (unrelated to the Lloyds improvements).
My VV popped occasionally when I first purchased it - and it was cleared up with 'riding style' - shifting/power etc - and I really can't explain more than that. After it was KevinXinated, it popped again - and more often. Again - it was 'cured' by changing the way I accelerate/shift - I get no popping now, unless I get 'lazy' with my shifting - whatever the hell that means. I just know it can be stopped by driving differently. Quick shifts with power on - doesn't need to be much.
Edited by donetracey 2011-07-28 12:59 PM
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Iron Butt
Posts: 1117
Northeast Ohio | wroman, after cams, your bike will idle the same, scoot down the highway the same and get about the same gas mileage (IF YOU STAY OUT OF THE THROTTLE - done in caps on purpose). You won't feel any loping like a cammed 69 Chevelle or have drivability issues. After install, you will be in this for $650-$750. Trust me, it is the best money you will ever spend in the transportation / fun department. |
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Cruiser
Posts: 130
Houston, Tx | With the cams at almost $500.... your saying an install is only $150-250...which represents apprx a 2-3 hr install assuming rates of about $80/hr (not sure if this is what Rylan or Kevin charge, but seems to be about the norm). Hell, I can handle that...then just add the ECM upgrade and I'm right there since I'm not going into a ~$6k for the 116" upgrade! |
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Cruiser
Posts: 189
Baltimore, Md | donetracey - 2011-07-28 12:58 PM flint350 - 2011-07-28 10:33 AM Now if I could only get rid of the damn backfiring/popping (unrelated to the Lloyds improvements).
My VV popped occasionally when I first purchased it - and it was cleared up with 'riding style' - shifting/power etc - and I really can't explain more than that. After it was KevinXinated, it popped again - and more often. Again - it was 'cured' by changing the way I accelerate/shift - I get no popping now, unless I get 'lazy' with my shifting - whatever the hell that means. I just know it can be stopped by driving differently. Quick shifts with power on - doesn't need to be much. Don't I wish. I'm very careful with shifting and have tried all the suggested ways to improve the popping/backfiring, including shifting techniques. The last 2 things I am contemplating trying are possibly Lloyd's IAV and/or take it to NY for Lloyd to remove and inspect the exhaust and re-dyno it to best performance. It runs like a champ, but sounds like a model T.
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Question for cammed Vision owners.
