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Visionary
Posts: 1350
| "It's common knowledge that there is a risk when buying a first year production." As some of us know, it's even tougher when you buy the first year of the marque, like the '99s.  I still love firing up my '99 and cruising along the beach roads.
Buckeye, I remember when you were down and out because you had not received your Vision yet. Now you appear to be happy as a pig in shit.
I talked with Kyle, the young, very good mech at my local dealer about the bags on the Vision. He said most of it is alignment he can adjust BEFORE the owner picks up his bike. I have no idea how many of you have worked with plastic? I remember installing a piece to the outside of a submarine years ago. We had prepped the just in the afternoon and planned to finish it the next day. When we got on the job the plastic piece would not fit the spot it was made for. The engineer said, "It has to fit. There is only a 5% change by spec." Well, once we got his boss to make him come down and look, he saw that the plastic had a changed by at least 15%. The corrective action was to do the job all in the same day. They found just the temperature of the day had caused the problem. I am sure this is not what some will want to hear, they will most likely blamed the oil they used or something else.
I am not saying we should not expect quality for our money but there are things that just can not be done to certain specs. If people had to work with these materials and conditions they would understand but hell what quality goes into a golf ball?
Just go out and ride or get rid of the bike and get one you think is better. Broken frames is a lot worse than bags out of alignment to me. |
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Cruiser
Posts: 102
Northeast Pennsylvania | My dealer is outstanding. I told them about the edges of the covers above the back speakers last week and they have new ones in and ready to install. I told them that would mean I'd have to get off the bike....I'd see them in a couple weeks. They also said they were going to work on their demo side bags to find the right fix before touching mine. I have 2 dealers near me..its like night and day. One is a Harley dealer that rides and sells Victory. Nice set up. Alot of merchandise, but the mechs are mostly familiar with Harleys. The one I go to now is a Victory/Polaris dealer mechanic that takes alot of pride in keeping his business open and customers happy. So shout out to Blue Ridge Polaris, Wapwallopen, Pa. |
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Cruiser
Posts: 141
| BUCKEYE - 2008-05-30 2:40 AM
Golfer mentioned CEDAR POINT! THE AMAZEMENT PARK! He's probably living in Ohio, and you have to understand the mentallity here. He has every right to complain, however his issues seems to stem from a moron putting his bike together. Misaligned windscreen? Saddle bags misaligned? Take the bike to the dealer and force them to make things right. I'm looking at 10k and about 5k is 2 up. I always make sure it's understood to be cautious where and how you place her feet, and legs. My 2003 Harley Electra Glide bags looked like crap after 2 rides. Hell, prior to trading it in for a Vision, I was afraid to ride anywhere, because it was apt to break down any moment. It's common knowledge that there is a risk when buying a first year production. I'm sure Golfers dealer probably can't help. I can probably go out on limb and guess they make him feel like everything wrong with his bike is his fault. Thats the Ohio way. Venting about the negatives is the only way to retain your sanity. Doesn't accomplish much, but make your jawls hurt. Be proactive, vent a way, and hold your dealer acountable! GO BUCKS! I need some coffee...you buzzards need to take a chill pill.
Traverse City, MI |
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Puddle Jumper
Posts: 37
SE Florida | Amen !, if you have problems with your Bike while it is still in warranty take it to the dealer tell him you are planing to live there until everything is fixed to your satisfaction and don't take no for an answer. So far no one has mentioned anything wrong with their bike that could not be fixed make them fix it. |
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Visionary
Posts: 1324
So Cal | golfer - 2008-05-30 7:27 AM
BUCKEYE - 2008-05-30 2:40 AM
Golfer mentioned CEDAR POINT! THE AMAZEMENT PARK! He's probably living in Ohio, and you have to understand the mentallity here. He has every right to complain, however his issues seems to stem from a moron putting his bike together. Misaligned windscreen? Saddle bags misaligned? Take the bike to the dealer and force them to make things right. I'm looking at 10k and about 5k is 2 up. I always make sure it's understood to be cautious where and how you place her feet, and legs. My 2003 Harley Electra Glide bags looked like crap after 2 rides. Hell, prior to trading it in for a Vision, I was afraid to ride anywhere, because it was apt to break down any moment. It's common knowledge that there is a risk when buying a first year production. I'm sure Golfers dealer probably can't help. I can probably go out on limb and guess they make him feel like everything wrong with his bike is his fault. Thats the Ohio way. Venting about the negatives is the only way to retain your sanity. Doesn't accomplish much, but make your jawls hurt. Be proactive, vent a way, and hold your dealer acountable! GO BUCKS! I need some coffee...you buzzards need to take a chill pill.
Traverse City, MI
You need to try another dealer. The one you have sound shakey. |
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Visionary
Posts: 1324
So Cal | BlueOx USA - 2008-05-30 3:35 AM
"It's common knowledge that there is a risk when buying a first year production." As some of us know, it's even tougher when you buy the first year of the marque, like the '99s. I still love firing up my '99 and cruising along the beach roads.
Buckeye, I remember when you were down and out because you had not received your Vision yet. Now you appear to be happy as a pig in shit.
I talked with Kyle, the young, very good mech at my local dealer about the bags on the Vision. He said most of it is alignment he can adjust BEFORE the owner picks up his bike. I have no idea how many of you have worked with plastic? I remember installing a piece to the outside of a submarine years ago. We had prepped the just in the afternoon and planned to finish it the next day. When we got on the job the plastic piece would not fit the spot it was made for. The engineer said, "It has to fit. There is only a 5% change by spec." Well, once we got his boss to make him come down and look, he saw that the plastic had a changed by at least 15%. The corrective action was to do the job all in the same day. They found just the temperature of the day had caused the problem. I am sure this is not what some will want to hear, they will most likely blamed the oil they used or something else.
I am not saying we should not expect quality for our money but there are things that just can not be done to certain specs. If people had to work with these materials and conditions they would understand but hell what quality goes into a golf ball?
Just go out and ride or get rid of the bike and get one you think is better. Broken frames is a lot worse than bags out of alignment to me.
Thanks Blue, for being one of the early ones to see it through Victory's growing pains and to all those that stuck it out so the rest could enjoy such a fine machine. |
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Cruiser
Posts: 140
| This is bullcrap. For a $20K motorcycle, paint this soft is unacceptable, bags that won`t align so that they don`t rub the seat and just generally look like crap are unacceptable. My first Victory, a Kingpin, was great, high quality. This one is expensive junk.
No more Polaris products for me, and everyone I know will hear about it. Bullcrap, I want my money back. |
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Visionary
Posts: 1436
| I haven't read all the replies so if I duplicate what someone else has said, my apology.
Saddlebag rubs on the clear coat are common. My Road Glide side cover was crap after the first 1000 miles so this isn't a Vision only issue. Get the dealer to have it repaired and then have some clear 3m adhesive put on to prevent future issues. You might also consider doing this to the compartments where you make frequent contact and the panel just in front of your seat where your jacket rubs.
Second thing: The right saddlebag door sits higher than the left door. This is highly lkely an assembly template issue but an easy fix. The down side is that your right door will fit just like the left, ie 1/4 gap and not completely flush at the top. Simple fix, just loosen the mount hinge bolts/screws and push down slightly before retightening. If your hinges don't have enough give in the holes simply open the holes on the hinge a little carefully and then reinstall door.
Finally, its a bike, aka transportation, ride it. Yes its a bunch of money for a bike and yes the quality assurance at Victory has been piss poor, BUT you bought a first year production bike. Most of the issues are a simple fix best taken care of by the owner, BUT this paint issue is something you should DEMAND Victory fix. After all the bike is warranted against manufacturer defect and BAD paint is. Make them replace the door if need be to fix the issue and then install some 3m clear.
ps.. Could be worse, you could be sitting in a 9"x 2" wide hole where the seat is missing padding while you await the replacement seat, lol (like me). |
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Cruiser
Posts: 140
| You`re willing to pay for poor quality? I`m not. The saddlebag adjustment may have been a easy fix on your bike, not on mine. I can`t align it, nor can the dealer. The paint is not just an issue at contact areas, it`s soft everywhere. My Vision is black, so i see it now, you`ll see it later. And finally, who cares about a harley? Lets compare it to something a little better quality than harley, like maybe an old yugo. And if i just wanted transportation I could have bought a scooter. A 20K luxury touring motorcycle is not just transportation.
Ok, I`m a little steamed here, sorry. Fact is, victory did a great job building their first luxo tourer, the design is excellent. It`s a great bike to ride. The engine, the handling, the ergos, are all sweet. So why did they screw the pooch with these cheesy details? I don`t understand why they let bikes out the door with flaws like these. Please tell me it isn`t arrogance?
Edited by lowtone9 2008-05-30 11:01 PM
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Visionary
Posts: 1484
LaPorte,Tx. | lowtone9, I hope you can resolve the issues with the Vision. Your unit had to be a very early unit, with taking delivery in September. You did have a Kingpin, and I don't know what color you had, but the black on my Kingpin was easy to scuff or mark.......that's why I did not go with a Black Vision. Yes, the clearcoat on Victory motorcycles is soft, known fact. Hey, vent all you want, we are listening, if you gotta get rid of it, then so be it. Ride safe. |
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Iron Butt
Posts: 619
Southeast Iowa | For those that have been around here for a while you may remember that I complained about many of the same issues. Listening to others I took some good advice and quit bitching on this form and spoke to someone who could actually do something about it. I'm happy to say that all my issues were addressed and I'm now a happy camper. The Vision is my 5th Victory and because Victory listened and acted accordingly next year I will buy my 6th. Yes there are 1st year issues.........and I'm sure next year won't be perfect either, but the measure of a good company is what they do to correct it. My advice is to speak to someone that can actually do something about it. |
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Tourer
Posts: 400
| who was person that could / did something. What did they fix and how? |
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Fountain Inn, SC United States | I urge ALL to vote in the Polls that I've pinned to the top of the forum regard hardbags. Let's get a clear picture as to the breadth of the problems with hardbags. I know for a fact the Victory does monitor this site and are interested in quality feedback.
Thanks,
Jeff |
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Iron Butt
Posts: 732
Western WA | Jeff, would it be possible to get a poll about the soft paint, (significant scuffing and wear on the top of the saddlebags from a passenger)?
Or maybe this is something that everyone is experiencing. |
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Puddle Jumper
Posts: 18
| Hello. I am very interested in the Vision, and definitley want to hear about the negative issues, not to bas, but to be prepared when i pull the trigger on a new one.
flaws do not phase me...I'm a Gilroy Indian Motorcycle owner...in fact, i own two of them, and they are just like supermodels...beautiful to look at, but high maintnance bitches! Since I live in California I get to put on serious miles on my bikes and my wife is getting sick of having a sore ass..in other words, i want a touring bike, I'm sick of Harley, but I want to stay American. Granted, the Goldwing is VERY tempting...it's the best touring bike out there, but..it's still a Honda...again, i want to keep with a V-twin.
When I saw the Vision, I loved it.
But I'm not so naive to think the first year won't have it's problems...I'm rooting for the vision to constantly improve, and I think if it happens I'll own next year's model.
Hope it's ok to check in this forum every now and then?
Ride safe! |
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Cruiser
Posts: 235
Evergreen, CO | titanchief -
If you get more serious about the Vision, take a demo ride, but you must also take your checkbook, as one ride has convinced many fence sitters in the past. If your Gilroy Indians are supermodels, the Vision is the girl next door dressed for the prom. Definitely NOT high maintenance, but when dressed in its prom duds, makes your heart beat REALLY fast!
Seriously though, you will see many posts here with issues that have frustrated many of the Vision's owners, but I personally place the vast majority of them in the "cosmetic" category. Other than the ignition switch issue, covered by a recall, I'm having trouble thinking of any problem that numerous folks have experienced that would leave you stranded on the side of the road. Many of these cosmetic issues are first year teething problems, that I would expect to see the majority of them resolved in next year's model run.
Victor makes great, reliable bikes, and if they have any downfall, it is probably them not being quite as proactive in resolving owner's issues as they could be. Having a GOOD dealer negates most of this, and you can confirm this by reading many of the recent posts about how their dealer went to bat for them, and made resolving issues much less painful for them.
I've owned 3 Harleys in a row before this, over a period of 23 years....a 65 panhead chopper, a 93 Dyna Wide Glide, and an 01 Heritage Softail Classic. With each successive bike, the reliability and comfort took large steps upward, but it does not compare to the huge step of going from the Heritage to the Vision. My wife & I ride two up somewhere between 75-90% of the miles put on the bike, and although we're close to having 3k on the bike in 2 months, I still grin like a little kid every time I get on the Vision.
Feel free to ask all the individual questions you like about this bike. Try to maintain perspective on the "overall" responses you get, noting that the unhappy will respond 10x more often than the happy when referring to a specific issue. Just keep one thing "perfectly clear"....the Vision is NOT a Gilroy Indian, from mfr support, comfort, reliability, etc. This beast ROCKS!! |
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Visionary
Posts: 1436
| lowtone9, dude your dealer must be a bone head. The bag alignment issues just take a little time and initiative, something most dealers are not willing to deal with. Let me know what alignment issues you are having and I'll help you get them aligned. It will cost you a few bucks in washers to shim the doors but nothing more. Took me only minutes to have both sides matched up and not rubbing on the seat.
As for the paint issue? Well its piss poor clearcoat, too thin. If its an issue for you I'd suggest you have the dealer order new saddlebag doors for the bad paint. Also see my suggestion with regards to applying "Liquid Glass" car polish to your bikes painted parts which will "eliminate" future issues with the clearcoat.
As for your HD response? Well you might not like HD's but they are comparable in cost and purpose, and in fact have a reputation for great paint. Since they have similar issues with the clearcoat, perhaps its not a Victory issue.
As for the scooter comment? Well after 40+ years of riding I think I've owned about everything, and yes they were all transportation, the Vision is simply one more of a different brand. Anyone who has ever owned a black bike could have told you they look great new but quickly get nicked and scratched. Try some "Liquid Glass" and I'm 99.99% sure your black bike will remain black, shiny, and new looking for a very long time. |
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Puddle Jumper
Posts: 18
| Thanks for your response. One of my other issues is that the nearest Victory dealer is about and hour ride from where I live which may be a pain if there are issues...then again, I haven't had facotry/dealer suport in years, so I reckon I'm not THAT worried. Bottom line is I am ready to have a more reliable ride. Both my Indians have had issues, and, I love em, which is why I put up with it, but I do want something I can just jump on, and go, go, go!
I was at a local biker hang out a couple fo weeks ago when a dude on a new Vision pulled up. Now I admit, when the vision was announce I was immediatley drawn to it, but the reaction I've seen on forums and in person are either absolutely LOVE it or absolutely HATE it....I DIG that. No matter what, the bike will get a reaction, and to me that is very cool. I got to ask the rider several questions, and his only issue was that the mp3 player was glitchy..the ipod actually worked better.
If I pull the trigger on one, I will want all the bells and whistles, and I know when ya get all the bells...sometimes they whistle...I just don't want too many bugs, but more importantly, I wanna bike I can consistatnly jump on, and never worry if the relay went bad (common Indian problem..a 4 dollar part can really ruin your day!) I also want my wife to be comfy and cozy..she likes riding with me, but man she cant handle much more than 2 hours in the saddle. Whenever we go on a ride with friends, she alsways wants to jump on the back of my buddies 07 Ultra...she says its much more comfy.
Bottom line is a few complaints will not deter me...iespecially if it's just cosmetics. I just know what to look for when i buy one and will learn form all of your experiences...such as the bad paint, and misaligment stuff. So, I'm ding my research now...I'm glad found this forum!
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Tourer
Posts: 400
| Do you have any pictures showing your alighnment fix?Teach - 2008-06-01 4:41 PM
lowtone9, dude your dealer must be a bone head. The bag alignment issues just take a little time and initiative, something most dealers are not willing to deal with. Let me know what alignment issues you are having and I'll help you get them aligned. It will cost you a few bucks in washers to shim the doors but nothing more. Took me only minutes to have both sides matched up and not rubbing on the seat.
As for the paint issue? Well its piss poor clearcoat, too thin. If its an issue for you I'd suggest you have the dealer order new saddlebag doors for the bad paint. Also see my suggestion with regards to applying "Liquid Glass" car polish to your bikes painted parts which will "eliminate" future issues with the clearcoat.
As for your HD response? Well you might not like HD's but they are comparable in cost and purpose, and in fact have a reputation for great paint. Since they have similar issues with the clearcoat, perhaps its not a Victory issue.
As for the scooter comment? Well after 40+ years of riding I think I've owned about everything, and yes they were all transportation, the Vision is simply one more of a different brand. Anyone who has ever owned a black bike could have told you they look great new but quickly get nicked and scratched. Try some "Liquid Glass" and I'm 99.99% sure your black bike will remain black, shiny, and new looking for a very long time. |
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Visionary
Posts: 1324
So Cal | If you buy a late production model, chances are most of the issues mentioned here have already been adressed at the factory. If you find a good dealer most of the alignment issues should have been taken care of before they put it on the floor.
Reliability is what this bike is all about. I use mine everyday to work and has never failed me. The battery went dead once due to the trunk light switch, there is a fix and has been repaired. Being my first bike with FI, ECU failures were always in the back of my mind when I first bought it. I dont give it a thought now. I even kept my old bike just in case, but after six months of washing it, then putting it back in the garage I found it a better home.
Just got back from a 120mi. Sunday ride never once gave a second thought about whether it would start or not.
The only HATE it opinions seem to be comming from the HD forums. Not once have I had a personal experience that was negative.
Most of the HD riders I come across are curious. All have been positive.
By far the best bike I have ever owner. Always looking for a reason to get on and go. As far as the dealer being an hour away, just another reason for a nice ride. |
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Tourer
Posts: 400
| Does anyone have pictures of a fix for the right side bag rubbing the seat? I took the seat off and looked at how it fits on the bike. The seat cannot be moved over to the left. The seat overlaps the passenger handle on the right, and there is a gap between the seat and the passenger handle on the left. Basically, the left saddlebag can be raised to fit flush, but the right side cannot. If anyone has pictures please post them. I would like to see what people are calling "fixed". |
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Visionary
Posts: 1436
| indyVision, the saddlebag doors are held in place with two hinges, each has 3 bolts. If you shim the bolts with washers on the right saddlebag it will move the door out and away from the seat solving your issue. Buy a variety of washers (thickness) and add/subtract as necessary. Takes about 10-20 minutes total time. You will only need to shim the two top hinge bolts on both hinges to move the door out, not the third bolt on the hinge that actually faces down. Start with a single washer and work from there until you get the door right where you want it. Sorry I don't have any pics to post. If you look closely you'll see that the right saddlebag door actually sits slightly higher (look at the gap at the lower edge of the saddlebag) which accounts for the alignment issue. There isn't an easy way to lower it or raise the left side to match, BUT I will be undertaking the project in the next couple weeks, take pic's and will post if I find a cure. |
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Cruiser
Posts: 74
MN. | Any problems on a $20,000 bike are just not cool, first year or not. (I was one of the lucky ones with my 34,000 mile trouble free numbered '99) I have a $16,000 TCD now, also no problems with that one. (new model and first year Freedom motor, 50,000 miles) If I would have gotten a Vision, I can imagine being pretty ticked off about some of the problems people here have experienced. To me, 1st year or not, they should have gotten these things worked out before production. |
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Cruiser
Posts: 102
Northeast Pennsylvania | BATMAN - 2008-06-03 7:26 AM
Any problems on a $20,000 bike are just not cool, first year or not. (I was one of the lucky ones with my 34,000 mile trouble free numbered '99) I have a $16,000 TCD now, also no problems with that one. (new model and first year Freedom motor, 50,000 miles) If I would have gotten a Vision, I can imagine being pretty ticked off about some of the problems people here have experienced. To me, 1st year or not, they should have gotten these things worked out before production.
Batman, you have rose colored glasses. 1st off..I love my vision. It is the best riding/performance bike I have ridden. I have owned both of the models you have mentioned above (both 1st year production) and they didn't come without their little problems and I love them also. Just look at the recalls for 99 or the paint that didn't get finished on the back of the hard bags and the fouling on the plugs on the 02 TCD. The thing is that the people that had good dealers like myself ( and don't take no for an answer) also got the stuff fixed. Nothing that has been said in this forum (which is very informative and I hope people keep bringing any issues up) that cannot be fixed. If anybody can by a better bike with no issues, than ..more power to you. I can get my little (cosemetics) issues with this bike fixed and be riding for as many miles or more than my previous Victorys. So, Batman if you haven't ridden a Vision yet..don't..'cause if you do...you'll want one too.  |
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Cruiser
Posts: 140
| Mine are already shimmed as far as they can be shimmed. Anyways, my little rant is over. I love the bike, mostly.
As for comparing to Harleys, I think that`s the biggest mistake they`re making. I know it`s a big and lucrative market to go after, but if they want to build world-class they should be looking at what the world is building, not just Harley. |
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Vision side bag problem, really bad!!!
