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Cruiser
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| To add a littke humor also, Somebody hit be from behind & the bike had a car tire on it. Thier estamate to repair didn't include a car tire. they used the correct motorcyle tire as replacement. |
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Visionary
Posts: 8144
New Bohemia, VA | Glad you're ok! I wouldn't expect the insurance company to give me any compensation but for the "correct" replacement parts. Now you can buy a spare and mount it on the back like a Lincoln. |
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Cruiser
Posts: 78
| MaddMAx2u - 2012-06-22 8:24 PM
Yea, ok Stevie boy. It's all fun and games unless your the poor guy that gets the shaft. You asked for a reply and I gave you one. Now you're just being an ass. Like it or not the reality is that you are taking a risk if you run a CT without your insurance company knowing. We all take risks, and if this one doesn't bother you, fine. But it seems to bother a biker that was on a Gold Wing in FL that is a quad. So I won't say anymore on this subject. I'm tired of taking to people that refuse to acknowledge the POSSIBLE risk. Run a CT. Take a Risk. It's your ass not mine.
Oh, and as for you're cute little sign sign-off. There's a ton of people that break and don't heal. They lay in bed for the rest of their lives unable to move, fed with a tube. Or did that data elude you too?
Have not heard of the GW down with a car tire,,,,,do you have more info? Link perhaps? Thanks. |
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Iron Butt
Posts: 880
Orlando, FL | It's a case in progress. I'm sorry it I gave the impression that the GW had a CT. He did not. But his insurance company is dragging their feet in a settlement. And no one else is offering to pay a ton for future medical bills, and income to support him, etc. Hence a law suit that he may or may not win. The point was that people seem to think if the tire is DOT approved everything is ok. That is a fantasy. Sure, YOUR insurance company might pay your policy max (In Florida we are no fault). But what's your max policy limit? 25k? 50k? 100k? 300k? Big deal. On going medical bills, a need for an income (ya can't find work easy as a quad) and more. And having a car tire which any expert will testify to as a potential safety issue will not be a help if you are suing someone. And then again they might refuse to pay, forcing you to sue. Yes, please do a google search for expert opinions on care tires on motorcycles and see what you get. It won't be a thumbs up.
Again, I could give a rat's ass who rides with a CT. Lot's of us do things that are not "kosher". But remember, it's always different in a court room. And talking to someone at an insurance company and hearing them say, "Yea, it's ok as long as it's DOT approved" isn't worth a nickel in court. It's not likely to be allowed as evidence. It's called hearsay at best. So ask that Insurance company person to put it in writing on company letterhead. Good luck in getting that in writing. Then it MIGHT stand up in court. Always good to have your ass covered.
And no matter how you ride, Ride Safe, Ride Hard, and Ride it like you stole it~
Edited by MaddMAx2u 2012-11-19 7:56 PM
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Cruiser
Posts: 78
| MaddMAx2u - 2012-11-19 7:54 PM
It's a case in progress. I'm sorry it I gave the impression that the GW had a CT. He did not. But his insurance company is dragging their feet in a settlement. And no one else is offering to pay a ton for future medical bills, and income to support him, etc. Hence a law suit that he may or may not win. The point was that people seem to think if the tire is DOT approved everything is ok. That is a fantasy. Sure, YOUR insurance company might pay your policy max (In Florida we are no fault). But what's your max policy limit? 25k? 50k? 100k? 300k? Big deal. On going medical bills, a need for an income (ya can't find work easy as a quad) and more. And having a car tire which any expert will testify to as a potential safety issue will not be a help if you are suing someone. And then again they might refuse to pay, forcing you to sue. Yes, please do a google search for expert opinions on care tires on motorcycles and see what you get. It won't be a thumbs up.
Again, I could give a rat's ass who rides with a CT. Lot's of us do things that are not "kosher". But remember, it's always different in a court room. And talking to someone at an insurance company and hearing them say, "Yea, it's ok as long as it's DOT approved" isn't worth a nickel in court. It's not likely to be allowed as evidence. It's called hearsay at best. So ask that Insurance company person to put it in writing on company letterhead. Good luck in getting that in writing. Then it MIGHT stand up in court. Always good to have your ass covered.
And no matter how you ride, Ride Safe, Ride Hard, and Ride it like you stole it~
Did the search and it seemed from the 30 links I went to that the ones touting the M tire were magazines quoting motorcycle tire manufacturers and the ones that promoted the C tire were riders. I also searched for motorcycle accidents with a car tire and I couldn't find any. Do these happen often???? |
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Visionary
Posts: 2118
Pitt Meadows, BC Canada | Said this before - many times - but I will repeat it - not for the 'experts' who use CT's (they know everything) - but for you curious bikers who are distressed at the high prices of bike tires. ALL tire engineers say - "Do NOT put car tires on a motorcycle". ALL of them. I have heard this for almost 50 years - NEVER stops. Why in the HELL would you think you know better?
Sorry - I been roundy-bout this for MANY years - and too many folks have been hurt because they think they know better. YAH - if you drive your bike like a Saint - Slow and Easy - they will work. But why the hell don't you just stay in your cager ???
Sorry - again - I hope I forget this post - and forget people who (like me) - know everything ....
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Iron Butt
Posts: 1066
Peru, IN | For the most part, CTs ride/handle the same as a MC tire. Better in some conditions. Proven fact. Not by some mathematical theory but by real world bikes in real world conditions (including roads like the Dragon) by real world riders. Track day on your Gixxer, leaned over on your knee? Maybe not. Everything else? Probably so. My motorcycle insurance policy doesn't say ANYTHING about a motorcycle tire. It DOES state that the tire must be DOT approved. (For both my current co (Geico) and previous (Progressive).) There are literally millions of miles of "testing".
If you don't believe me, try it yourself. Put your helmet/leathers/boots/gloves on and find someone with a CT on their bike. It'll take a few miles to get use to. Then ride it like you would your own bike with the MC tire. If you have an open mind, you won't come away disappointed. The better mileage and cheaper initial cost are just extras. Personally, I don't care what anyone else has on their bike. |
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Visionary
Posts: 8144
New Bohemia, VA | I always try to refrain making any comments because I've never rode the darkside, and some how that makes me unqualified to speak. However, I once seriously considered going darkside, and had folks encourage me to go darkside because of my annual mileage. The sole, two compelling reasons that I would go darkside is to be cheap and lazy. I've read every possible article, comment, interjection, and arguement of the pluses of going darkside and the only thing that jumps out at me to do it is, cheap and lazy. Mind you, I'm not speaking for you, so don't get your feathers in a ruffle. While reading all that I have read by the car tire experts, to include Mr. Monkeyman, I'm convinced not to go darkside. I agree with Mr. Tracy and find it best not to screw with a good thing. Just as I've stayed with the E3 because I'm convinced that there is not a better tire out there for my Vision, your Vision, well that is your Vision. But I do caution folks in your arguements about how great a car tire is, being able to skillfully handle your machine makes all the difference in the world. While there is not imperical data that I know of, seat of the pants means nothing. Many of bikers lost their lives over the slightest misjudgment in both skils and equipment. I would be careful to tout that an off application of a product is better than what has been tried and test in a test environment. While you maybe able to "handle" the application, others may not be able to. The next time you're out and about during riding season, take note of how other folks ride. I'm amazed at the number of "bad dude" looking bikers that I have seen, look like they still need training wheels, very unstable on their machines, and they be riding two up, scary. So to say that a car tire is better than an motorcycle tire, yet it "takes getting use to", is kind of screwy in the precision required to safely operate a motorcycle.
Okay, my ramblings usually don't make sense to me, but I feel I have to say it because I read this crap and cringe how the darksiders try to play it up that this is the greatest secret the world has ever known and nobody will listen to them. Yet, out of the mouth of the experts I go away happily on my E3s without ever considering putting a car tire on my bike.
O man, I'm ready for another rear tire, I guess I'll have to make a 3-hour trip to the dealer in Roanoke. I just put this one on about 6 months ago, wow, where does the time go...? |
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Cruiser
Posts: 244
| I had to have a rear tire replaced on the road, so the CT got repaced with a Motorcyle tire. I went back to a CT before the MT wore out because, I was more stable at slow speed, handled normal rideing curves better & got better hard braking. I would have paid more to get these, but if tire milage was less I probably would not have switch to CT. |
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Iron Butt
Posts: 1066
Peru, IN | "Mr. Monkeyman"? LOL I'm not a car tire expert by any means. It takes getting used to just like a crotch rocket rider would have to get used to a touring bike.
I have a ways to go before I need a new tire but I'd consider a CT as much as I would consider a MC tire. For a bike tire, I think either the stock E3 or a Cobra would be nice. I'm more concerned about stickiness than longevity. (If I can't enjoy riding the bike, who cares how long it lasts?)
Could very well be that the Vision works better with a bike tire than a car tire. I have less than 2k miles on my Vision so I have a while to figure that one out.
(I feel so unworthy being called Mr. Monkeyman by a rider with 130k miles on his Vision. You rock, dude.) |
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Iron Butt
Posts: 880
Orlando, FL | Monkeyman - 2012-11-20 4:01 AM
For the most part, CT's ride/handle the same as a MC tire. Better in some conditions. Proven fact.
LOL LOL LOL. Proven fact? Think that'll hold up in a court of law? Think you can find an expert witness on tires to testify to that supposed fact? LOL LOL LOL Sorry dude, but what a rider says about a tire is an opinion, not a fact.
Again, I really do not care what tires you ride on. Like helmets, it's a personal choice. But why do some people feel the need to CLAIM without any proof that CT's are as good as a MT on a motorcycle? Gentlemen, a CT will never perform as well as a MT on a bike. And THAT is an engineering, physics and mathematical fact.
And Monkeyman, here are the facts, not opinions from riders.
It's an engineering FACT that car tires are designed for the lateral forces created by a car in a turn, and motorcycle tires are engineered and designed the the COMPLETELY DIFFERENT forces that a motorcycle creates when it LEANS in a turn. If you fail to understand that concept then everything else is a moot point. Or perhaps you have not noticed that cars do not lean into turns!
For those who are really interested in the engineering of MT tires and some comparisions to CT and light truck tires here is a link. It covers it all including all important "camber" sections, as well as horsepower to unit of contact, contact pressure to inflation pressure ratios and other important differences between CT and MT.
http://dr650.zenseeker.net/Tires/MCTireInfo.pdf
Again, please know that I do not care what you ride on. Everything we do that changes the engineering of our bikes is a choice. I just want to clear up the facts and the differences between facts and opinions. Armed with the FACTS you can make an intelligent decision, understanding the ramifications and implications of your decision including but not limited to safety, liability, performance, mileage, and legal positions. And remember, if you are riding 2 up you have a passenger to consider.
Ride hard, ride Safe and Ride it like you stole it~!
Edited by MaddMAx2u 2012-11-22 8:49 AM
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Iron Butt
Posts: 1066
Peru, IN | I will and has held up in court. I understand car tires were made for different forces, etc but it still works. Engineers can say what they want. The fact (proven by millions of miles) is simply that it works.
I don't want to argue with you so I'll just leave it at that. |
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Iron Butt
Posts: 825
, WI | Car tire BAD!!!  
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Iron Butt
Posts: 880
Orlando, FL | Monkeyman - 2012-11-22 11:54 AM
1. I will and has held up in court.
2. I understand car tires were made for different forces, etc but it still works. Engineers can say what they want. The fact (proven by millions of miles) is simply that it works.
3. I don't want to argue with you so I'll just leave it at that
1. REALLY? Cite the case please. I could use the citation and cannot find one in any available legal resource.
2. Yea, those engineers, mathematicians and physicists are just plain dumb huh? I'd never believe them.
3. There really isn't an argument here. Facts are facts and opinions are like assholes.....everyone has one.
Edited by MaddMAx2u 2012-11-22 2:37 PM
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Visionary
Posts: 2118
Pitt Meadows, BC Canada | MaddMAx2u - 2012-11-22 12:34 PM Monkeyman - 2012-11-22 11:54 AM 1. I will and has held up in court. 2. I understand car tires were made for different forces, etc but it still works. Engineers can say what they want. The fact (proven by millions of miles) is simply that it works. 3. I don't want to argue with you so I'll just leave it at that 1. REALLY? Cite the case please. I could use the citation and cannot find one in any available legal resource. 2. Yea, those engineers, mathematicians and physicists are just plain dumb huh? I'd never believe them. 3. There really isn't an argument here. Facts are facts and opinions are like assholes.....everyone has one. Yeah, Max! Based on my STUDY & LEARNING - I have been dissing CT's for years. But MISERS never listen when it comes to saving a buck.  |
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Visionary
Posts: 8144
New Bohemia, VA | Don, that's why I refrain, or try to refrain from interjecting. The wallet is driving the train, and the imperial data is only seat of the pants testing. The sad part is, that millions of miles without something happening only means it is adequate. The mind also plays tricks on then to believe that just because they can scrap a floorboard, then is better. Stopping quicker? Only because there is more drag than a cycle tire, like tire low on air on a car. There really is no point to argue, they have convinced themselves, and settles it. |
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Cruiser
Posts: 78
| MaddMAx2u - 2012-11-22 8:42 AM
Monkeyman - 2012-11-20 4:01 AM
For the most part, CT's ride/handle the same as a MC tire. Better in some conditions. Proven fact.
LOL LOL LOL. Proven fact? Think that'll hold up in a court of law? Think you can find an expert witness on tires to testify to that supposed fact? LOL LOL LOL Sorry dude, but what a rider says about a tire is an opinion, not a fact.
Again, I really do not care what tires you ride on. Like helmets, it's a personal choice. But why do some people feel the need to CLAIM without any proof that CT's are as good as a MT on a motorcycle? Gentlemen, a CT will never perform as well as a MT on a bike. And THAT is an engineering, physics and mathematical fact.
And Monkeyman, here are the facts, not opinions from riders.
It's an engineering FACT that car tires are designed for the lateral forces created by a car in a turn, and motorcycle tires are engineered and designed the the COMPLETELY DIFFERENT forces that a motorcycle creates when it LEANS in a turn. If you fail to understand that concept then everything else is a moot point. Or perhaps you have not noticed that cars do not lean into turns!
For those who are really interested in the engineering of MT tires and some comparisions to CT and light truck tires here is a link. It covers it all including all important "camber" sections, as well as horsepower to unit of contact, contact pressure to inflation pressure ratios and other important differences between CT and MT.
http://dr650.zenseeker.net/Tires/MCTireInfo.pdf
Again, please know that I do not care what you ride on. Everything we do that changes the engineering of our bikes is a choice. I just want to clear up the facts and the differences between facts and opinions. Armed with the FACTS you can make an intelligent decision, understanding the ramifications and implications of your decision including but not limited to safety, liability, performance, mileage, and legal positions. And remember, if you are riding 2 up you have a passenger to consider.
Ride hard, ride Safe and Ride it like you stole it~!
Why are we going to court???? Why does a CT need to hold up in a court of law??? Has someone sued someone due to a CT?
Still searching......
Have heard of several MT delaminating, but can't find any about CT's. Can someone in the know point me in the right direction?
Still searching.....
Thanks
Edited by bigdogtx 2012-11-22 7:15 PM
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Iron Butt
Posts: 1066
Peru, IN | MaddMAx2u - 2012-11-22 3:34 PM
Monkeyman - 2012-11-22 11:54 AM
1. I will and has held up in court.
2. I understand car tires were made for different forces, etc but it still works. Engineers can say what they want. The fact (proven by millions of miles) is simply that it works.
3. I don't want to argue with you so I'll just leave it at that
1. REALLY? Cite the case please. I could use the citation and cannot find one in any available legal resource.
2. Yea, those engineers, mathematicians and physicists are just plain dumb huh? I'd never believe them.
3. There really isn't an argument here. Facts are facts and opinions are like assholes.....everyone has one.
1) Pay a lawyer some money to research this. They have access to sites like LexusNexus. Shouldn't take them much time/money to get your answers.
2) Engineers designed the Yugo, Hindenburg, Titanic and Space Shuttle. How well did those work out? Nobody ever said they were dumb. Don't put words in my mouth.
3) You're right. There's no arguement. I'm not quoting opinion. I'm quoting facts. Real world facts, not something that "theoretically" should work.
Like I said, I couldn't care less what you put on your bike. Let it go. |
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Visionary
Posts: 8144
New Bohemia, VA | I don't think either side will ever let it go. |
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Iron Butt
Posts: 612
| varyder - 2012-11-22 3:20 PM
Don, that's why I refrain, or try to refrain from interjecting. The wallet is driving the train, and the imperial data is only seat of the pants testing. The sad part is, that millions of miles without something happening only means it is adequate. The mind also plays tricks on then to believe that just because they can scrap a floorboard, then is better. Stopping quicker? Only because there is more drag than a cycle tire, like tire low on air on a car. There really is no point to argue, they have convinced themselves, and settles it.
Pretty sure I've seen some postings where a few people have had single vehicle accidents, and their bikes were equipped with CTs. Saying that no CT shod bike has ever taken a spill is a bit of a stretch I think. Having the rider ever admit that the CT may have been a contributing factor to a wreck, would also be a bit of a stretch.
Edited by Turk 2012-11-23 7:36 AM
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Iron Butt
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Orlando, FL | Monkeyman - 2012-11-23 3:35 AM
MaddMAx2u - 2012-11-22 3:34 PM
Monkeyman - 2012-11-22 11:54 AM
1. I will and has held up in court.
2. I understand car tires were made for different forces, etc but it still works. Engineers can say what they want. The fact (proven by millions of miles) is simply that it works.
3. I don't want to argue with you so I'll just leave it at that
1. REALLY? Cite the case please. I could use the citation and cannot find one in any available legal resource.
2. Yea, those engineers, mathematicians and physicists are just plain dumb huh? I'd never believe them.
3. There really isn't an argument here. Facts are facts and opinions are like assholes.....everyone has one.
1) Pay a lawyer some money to research this. They have access to sites like LexusNexus. Shouldn't take them much time/money to get your answers.
2) Engineers designed the Yugo, Hindenburg, Titanic and Space Shuttle. How well did those work out? Nobody ever said they were dumb. Don't put words in my mouth.
3) You're right. There's no arguement. I'm not quoting opinion. I'm quoting facts. Real world facts, not something that "theoretically" should work.
Like I said, I couldn't care less what you put on your bike. Let it go.
HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA. Yes Monkeyman, your name suits you. When you can't back up your silly unfounded statements, deflect with BS! Ooops, I mean Monkey s@#$!! HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA
Edited by MaddMAx2u 2012-11-23 8:39 AM
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Cruiser
Posts: 244
| Rollin I love The Picture ! Fits the conversations perfectly |
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Cruiser
Posts: 262
Flowery Branch Ga | Wow! This got personal quick! @Rollin---- That was funny!
For what it's worth, I too run a CT. I like that it's cheaper and lasts longer. The best reason for me to use it is because of an injury to my right ankle I have a hard time holding the bike up with a passenger. If it leans any to the right while stopped I will drop it. The CT's flatter profile gives me just enough extra stability to keep us riding. I researched the pro's and con's and so far it works for me. If you don't like it that's OK, but don't bash me because I do. |
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Iron Butt
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Peru, IN | wtwhitelaw - 2012-11-23 10:51 AM
Wow! This got personal quick!
Sure did. Not really sure where that came from.
ATTENTION MAX! I've changed my mind. I now agree with everything you've said. Oh. And, grow up.
Edited by Monkeyman 2012-11-23 11:12 AM
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Cruiser
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Rhode Island | Engineers have designed racked front ends, bigger front tires, lowering kits and yes, approved 2up riding all of which have an adverse effect on handling; so they aren't perfect either. Lets face it folks we ride for many reasons but for most of us it brings a sense of peace and a feeling of freedom; if we wanted to play it safe we would have bought a bubble to live in. Ride your own way and most importantly, ride within the limits of your equipment and skills.
Jim |
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Darkside Suess
