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Puddle Jumper
Posts: 29
| Hey Vaparadox, my Brother! Have you ever heard of good noise versus bad noise? A great sounding exhaust sound versus tin cans being dragged down the street? I dont think you would be calling me an old fart if you were standing in front of me. I seriously doubt it Mr. Internet Warrior. I capitalized out of respect for you. He he he!!! Basically I like the bike, just wanted to see if there were any solutions Bro! Man are you arrogant! Must be related to Rush!
Edited by UntamedBill 2009-04-27 10:22 PM
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Iron Butt
Posts: 935
Rockford, IL | Check the link I provided earlier. In that thread the original posters issue actually did end up being an problem with improperly torqued bearings in the front end. Perosnally I think it was a fluke type problem though, one of those rare things we have seen once or maybe twice around here. But then again......who knows.
Here is the link again http://www.vision-riders.com/bb/forums/thread-view.asp?tid=1933&sta...
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Cruiser
Posts: 204
guelph ontario | If you cant stand the wind you shouldnt be on a bike in the first place. My biggest complaint is that you get wet on it when riding in the rain. Why couldnt they fix that before I spent all my money on it. |
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Visionary
Posts: 8144
New Bohemia, VA | Probie - 2009-04-28 8:02 AM If you cant stand the wind you shouldnt be on a bike in the first place. My biggest complaint is that you get wet on it when riding in the rain. Why couldnt they fix that before I spent all my money on it. got to agree with you probie, my friend up yonder. If you have to ask, then there's no way to explain it to you. Rain, wind, traffic, idiots and so on. After riding the Vision I don't understand why anyone who wants to do serious touring wouldn't get one. Then someone else says I'm living in a dream world. If that be the case, just don't wake me up as my big hinderpart, legs, knees, back are enjoying riding more now than ever. And that is coming off a "proven" world class tourer to an underdogs attempt to compete with the big boys. All I can say is I'm sorry to anyone who feels they wasted their money on a Vision and hope somehow it will work out for them. Lovin' every (s)Mile!... |
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Cruiser
Posts: 65
| Intriguing thread! Here in the UK we are seeing stupid wind more and more - wind that gusts above 50mph and blows bikes perilously close to other vehicles and the other side of the road. The Vision has a lot of 'side' and will take its fair share of hammering. BUtt his is all part of riding a bike isn't it? I had a Blackbird and that used to really suffer in high wind - handling went off and if you were fully loaded with a pillion too, you really got blown to buggery. I was pushed across Snake Pass on one windy day. When I got the Rocket III, the wind disappeared!! Low weight (and what a weight!) meant side winds were pretty much irrelevant! The Vision, to me, sits between the two. So, choose your poison! A bike needs to be ridden, and I do so almost every day in pretty much every condition save for snow (came off on snow, not again thanks!). With wind, you have to judge it, alter your riding to suit, loosen up (try to forget it - it's the anxiety that causes problems) and let the bike do its thing? |
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Tourer
Posts: 301
Buffalo Grove,Ill | UntamedBill - 2009-04-28 7:16 AM
Ive heard to many people complain about motor noise for you to make me think its just me. That gear drive in the primary sounds like a like some kind of farm machine (vert noisy). You guys that cant see any problems must secretly be some kind of factory reps like the 'Gadget Guru', or you have got to justify that 24K you spent! By the way, Ive had a lot more than 21 bikes but I didnt want to seem pretentious (dont have to list every bike Ive owned). To much BS in this world anyway so lets speak a little truth.
Speaking the truth is always a good thing, but know your facts as well, You honestly think that the "Gadget Guru" guy is a factory rep? LOL ive read a lot of stuff on his site and it seems to me he started his site to help other Vic riders and have some fun. Ive read things other people have written as well as stuff he's written totally against victory, and some of their idea's or the way they do things and it sure didnt sound like a factory rep to me, quite the opposite. JMHO of course |
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Visionary
Posts: 8144
New Bohemia, VA | clubford00 - 2009-04-28 9:53 AM ...."Gadget Guru" ....sure didnt sound like a factory rep to me, quite the opposite. JMHO of course +1 out for a buck, fame and fortune... |
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Tourer
Posts: 363
Goldsboro, NC | Lotzafun makes some good points, but I am the type to disbelieve unless I am presented with the mechanicsm for why it works. I'll throw in my analysis as an engineer here.
Loosening up your grip on the bike does three things:
1) It manages stress. If you loosen your grip on the bike (legs and arms) in a buffeting situation, you lessen the mental stress that will make you first get tunnel-visioned and then second overreact when something does happen that requires response. You also lessen the physical drain that can mess up responses and just plain make a ride unpleasant.
2) It decouples you from the buffeting. This is much like a soft tail vs. a hard tail bike with some extra physics thrown in. Your weight is carried up high on the bike. If the bike wants to move and you are tightly clamped onto it, then the bike is trying to throw you around , too. Being higher than the bike's center of gravity actually magnifies this condition. Allowing the bike to move a bit underneath you allows your weight to dampen instead of amplify the buffeting.
3) It removes an overcontrol situation. As you ride in your chosen 1/3 of a lane, you will naturally drift a bit. If you try to ride exactly on a painted line (ignore the paint for this demonstration... I'm talking about keeping a very narrow path) then you find it much harder to control.... control that is totally unecessary. Same with a bike in a crosswind or buffeting situation. Okay, maybe you'll be drifting a 1/2 lane instead of 1/3 lane and the frequency is much higher, but you are still maintaining your path in allowable road space. Why fight it? It just wears you out.
I've seen videos of bikes that have fallen completely to the ground and slide for a bit, then the gyroscopic action of the still-spinning wheels stands the bike up and it continues down the road, sans rider. The geometries in a bike make it WANT to go straight and stable. If it needs to respond to an outside force like a crosswind, a simple lean input will kick the wheels away from the wind and you will maintain your path. In a buffeting situation, the external forces repeatedly cancel each other out and any fighting you do will have to be reversed in the next second or two. A bit of time in the saddle practicing the relaxation of control will gain you trust in the bike's innate ability to handle all but the most insane weather conditions.
I will concede that it is unnerving at first. Take a breath, relax your grip and enjoy the new sensation. Now that I've had my Vision for 6 months or so, the only thing I really hate about traffic buffeting is bus exhaust.
The TrailBarge |
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Visionary
Posts: 2118
Pitt Meadows, BC Canada | Amen to all of The TrailBarge's remarks. Most importantly - in gusty conditions - you CANNOT add 'inputs' without causing wobble. Just allow the machine to move a bit as he says....
Eventually this becomes second nature and you will enjoy the ride more - without worry. For me, my Vision is the best bike ever in wind. |
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Iron Butt
Posts: 732
Western WA | My goodness, I leave for a couple of days and all you kids do is fight.
See? This is why we can't have nice things.
I will add my $0.02 concerning the wind issue.
I got rid of my last bike, a C50T strictly because of buffeting. It was because of that that I talked myself into the Vision. (Okay, who am I kidding. I would have talked myself into the Vision anyway.) Riding 2up all the time, the freeways and 2 lane roads with truck traffic were unpleasant to say the least.
I hardly notice the wind on the Vision. Compared to my other bikes the Vision handles like a dream, even in heavy cross-winds. I keep my tires at the proper pressure, a light hand on the bars, and let the bike do the work. Piece of cake. The co-pilot noticed the difference right away. She didn't feel like she was going to be blown off sideways every time we passed an 18 wheeler.
How does the bike handle over 100? I wasn't on a bunch of twisties, but for the short time I had her up that fast I didn't notice any significant problems.
That's my experience. It may not be yours. |
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Visionary
Posts: 3006
San Antonio, TX | Doc,
I just love the way to write the King's English. Please post more. I really liked the sentence. "I had a Blackbird and that used to really suffer in high wind - handling went off and if you were fully loaded with a pillion too, you really got blown to buggery." I had to read that a few times and for some reason it made me smile.
trailbarge, donetracey and Breaker,
All good stuff! Thanks.
I used to fight it....now I let the Vision do the work and I relax. When I find my Vision being "Blown to Buggery", I normally find out that the problem is the rider (me) not the ride. I have been riding cruisers since 1982 and I still have a lot to learn.
I love today's quote from Google. "Whoever ceases to be a student has never been a student." - George Iles |
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Cruiser
Posts: 65
| My pleasure Radio Teacher - although at present it is the "Queen's" (not King's) English - the dotty old dear is still with us!
Well, I just had to face April showers UK style, with a 15mph wind gusting at 25. The only adjustment (apart from hanging loose!) was to toggle up the ipod volume! I hate rain!!! Maybe I should come to Arizona? |
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Tourer
Posts: 367
Cottage Grove, Mn |
After reading all the post on this thread i have come to the conculsion that there is only one thing about my Vision the i truly am unhappy about and the is the fact that it is sitting idle in the man cave instead of being on the street
What is lean lash????????????? |
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Visionary
Posts: 3006
San Antonio, TX | Doc,
Thank you for the correction. We here in the colonies sometimes make these simple mistakes.
Thank you for buying an American made ride. We need all the help we can get.
God save the Queen and Ride Safe!
Edited by radioteacher 2009-04-28 5:06 PM
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Cruiser
Posts: 257
Under the Rule of Jedi - Masshole | Ok here come some dribble....
Don't ask me how I know, but the Vision is very stable with an extremely light touch to the bars while passing a truck.
Cruse control set at 80, passing a truck while sitting up on the "rumble seat", no waver, no sway, no nothing. Should have seen the look on his face when he glanced over and saw no one driving! Not that I condone this type of childish activity, but it sure is fun!
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Cruiser
Posts: 103
| Untamed, This year I did some foolish things and one of them was to purchase a GW, Ultra and a Vision. All bike were 2008 and new. What I learned was that it is best to wait for 3 months before making sound judgments about these bikes. When I first rode the HD I really did not like it at all but grew to almost like that shakey little bike after a while. The GW was awesome right from the start but I learned that to spend long hours in the saddle was not very comfortable. The Vision is in my opinion the best of the three with the GW close behind. As for your concerns, the Vision as stated before rides best with lite input in windy conditions. The one thing I like about the GW better than the Vision is Interstate driving, do to the more stable high speed ride with trucks, other than that the Vision is my favorite. So go lite and tame that beast! BL |
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Puddle Jumper
Posts: 26
Milwaukee, WI United States | Hi Bill,
Are you enjoying having everyone tell you how to ride? Frustrating isn't it? After all, you didn't post a question asking how to ride the Vision so it doesn't buffet - you asked if there could be any technical reasons for the buffeting you were experiencing. The answer is "YES". Near the top of this page (2) Lotzafun referenced an earlier thread from a poster that had a similar problem. I was that poster. If you followed the link to that thread you found about 2 pages of posts that pretty much look identical to this thread. That being the case you may not have read through the whole litany of advice about lightening up your grip and learning the right way to ride your Vision. But, if you go to about the middle of page two and find my last post with the subject "FINAL RESULTS" you will see the technical reasons that caused the problem.
In my case it was a combination of the fork bearings being torqued to tight and low tire pressure caused by using an inaccurate tire gauge (the one that came with the bike!). I was experiencing what felt like buffeting even when it seemed like there was very little wind and gusty days sent me wandering in my lane. The more I loosened up on the grips the more it wanted to go it's own way. With 38 years of riding experience and knowing that I already had a very loose and relaxed riding style I too was beginning to feel like I had made a bad purchase and would just have to "get acclimated" to the Vision. Fortunately I had a dealer that actually listened to what I said and really looked for the solution (even though I first had to listen the same "riding style" lecture from him). I had left the bike with him and told him to ride it personally for a few days before giving it back to me with another lecture.
My advice is to make sure you have an accurate gauge and check your tire pressure. If it's still doesn't feel right take it to your dealer and suggest he check the steering torque. If it is on spec maybe it could be a bad tire or something else but with your years of experience if you still feel like you are riding a bike that shouldn't even cost half of what you paid then my guess is that there IS a technical reason for it. Of course a bike with that much surface will catch the wind a bit but it shouldn't vary that much from some of the other bikes you've ridden and may be much better than some of them.
What you have to realize is that all the Vision riders that DON'T have a technical problem, and don't have your bike to compare with, assume that you are complaining about the idiosyncrasies the Vision has when you try to overcompensate on the steering. I also think that the swept back handle bar position magnifies steering input and that is why the more relaxed grip seems to help those who are not accustomed to it. At least they are trying to be helpful and that is one of the great things about Vision owners. The other great thing is the Vision itself. Once you get the problem solved I think you will be glad you made the purchase. It's not a perfect bike but on the whole it's more fun to ride than any other bike I've owned or ridden so far. Good luck! |
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Tourer
Posts: 495
Carrollton, TX | WOW I don’t understand a lot of the comments on wind buffeting on the Vision. I live in Texas and we have strong winds here. It is very common to have a 30 to 35 mph wind in the spring and other times of the year as well. I have been riding bikes since I was 9 and I am 53 now. In the area of touring bikes I have put a good amount of miles on the Harley Ultra, the Gold Wing and the BMW 1200 LT. I have 30,200 miles on my Vision in 13 months. I think the Vision handles better in the wind than any bike I have ridden. I handles a little different especially compared to bikes with a fork mounted fairing. You will feel the wind hit the bike some but it is solid on the road. I ride with friends that have Gold Wings, Ultra’s and Road Glides and in 35 mph cross winds I will set the cruise control at 80 mph and not touch the handlebars for miles and the bike is solid. I can just lean and do sweepers and change lanes. The others riding with me are amazed as when they try it on their bikes they have to put their hands on the bars to correct the bike in less than a minute. I have been in such strong winds that the Vision is leaning as it goes down the road but it is straight as an arrow and rock solid on the road. Oh yes another proof point of the wind protection the Vision provides is that I can wear my Vision golf hat even in 45 mph winds and my hat has never blown off. |
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Tourer
Posts: 415
| Trust the bike, it will never let you down. |
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Visionary
Posts: 2118
Pitt Meadows, BC Canada | Bill has given us all a thread to be proud of. Wonderful expressions of what we all know, and have learned over countless miles of riding on many different machines. He has seen us at our best - not afraid to 'poke' our sensitivities and not afraid to stand up to each other in our opinions. This is why most of us work at keeping this website alive.
Wind problems may be mechanical, or may be mental, or may be metaphysical - but by sharing our opinions we ALL learn - and this website makes this possible.......
I'm off to Maui where I will rent a HD to tour - and enjoy the experience. But I am already looking foreward to our summer of riding the best bike on the planet. And I am sure that Bill will have his problems under control thanks to all the contributions here..... |
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Visionary
Posts: 8144
New Bohemia, VA | Very well put mr. longworth. I see that a technical issue can be involved as I recall that thread you mention. But it is just as easy to give the "loosen the grip" lecture, as I had the experience until I did. By all means Bill, shake 'er down and have the once over done to elimnate technical problems. With all resolved, consider the Vision is different and get to know it. I'm curious to see the windtunnel tests on the bike and I wonder if they did crosswind testing. As I looked at the front of the bike one day I thought on how a jet engine is designed and the force of the air through allows the forward thrust of the plane to be straight. So, is the air flow thru and around the cowling allows the bike to track better in crosswinds? The BMW is the only other bike that I see that has a similar styling in this regards. My GL1200 as with the other Goldwings has an airdam in front with the radiator and I know I would be down right afraid on windy days to ride but would still do it. I would be all over the road, back and forth trying to hold it in line. If I had that same type of experience on the Vision, I would have to check components and tires as it would indicate that something was definetly amiss if started acting that way. I hope you do get all your issues resolved and experience the Vision ride. |
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Tourer
Posts: 332
Dale, Indiana | I LOVE WINDY DAYS!
When I first got the bike I was scared to death to ride when it was windy. THEN I learned not to fight the bike and let her do the work. Gusting .... no need to do anything she leans into and comes back right up without me doing a darn thing.
Last Sunday I wanted to show my buds how well the bike rides in the wind. Winds of between 15 to 25 with a few gusts, and I rode her at 4 and 5 miles stretches with the cruise set and my hands folded on my chest. Went around a few gentle curves like that too.
She's just an easy bike to ride if you let her do what she is designed to do.
BTW I drive a truck too (whatever that has to do with anything!)  
PS: I don't do no hands when passing a truck. (I haven't totally gave over all control to the bike.)  |
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Iron Butt
Posts: 810
| Doc - 2009-04-28 5:42 AM ... When I got the Rocket III, the wind disappeared!! ... Here is some interesting information on the Rocket 3's design.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HKEuzxC4eGc |
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Cruiser
Posts: 65
| Ha ha TimS - there are a few of those around! That's what happens when something new and different appears. The RIII is a great bike - no knocking it now (snigger!). But, afte 230 miles today of A roads, motorway and town riding (in bright sun and WIND - oh no!!!) - I love my Vision!!! |
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Iron Butt
Posts: 810
| I would love to give the Rocket 3 a test ride, but haven't had the opportunity yet.
Anyways, I thought the video was great, especially the part about the infusion of the "argument juice" from the female brain to facilitate instant directional changes. I put a few miles on my Vision this last weekend as well. I put over 600 miles on Friday and a few on Thursday and Sunday. We went from snow to desert, through high cross winds, semi turbulence and locust swarms (good eating) and had a great time. Time for an oil change and a bug scrapper.
Tim
Edited by TimS 2009-04-29 12:04 PM
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Stability in high winds?
