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Visionary
Posts: 1436
| Thanks for the reply John. I think I'll do the 185 just for a little added room. I ride a lot of 2up and I'm not always good about checking my shock pressure (and it seems to leak down a little). |
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Visionary
Posts: 1324
So Cal | I have friend that has been running the spacesaver spares on the back for a long time now. No problems so far. |
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Visionary
Posts: 1436
| After searching around and factoring in replacement if needed I decided to go with the same tire as Flatsix. I'll be removing the hitchdoc before installing the tire and will be looking into getting someone who will cut and reweld the hitch down supports a 1/2 inch wider apart before reinstalling. Measuring just the width of the 195 and the inside spacing of the hitchdoc reveals that both measure exactly 8 inches. In other words there is no space for the tire to tuck inbetween should the suspension bottom a little. Should be loads of room with the hitch out of the way. I'll update after its installed tomorrow.
I should add the 185/55-16 would have left enough room but they are hard to come buy unless you order them online.
Edited by Teach 2009-08-11 2:56 PM
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Tourer
Posts: 394
Tucson, AZ | Man, am I bummed. My Harley buddy and I were on a three day weekend ride to the White Mountains in northern Arizona. On Saturday afternoon the rear E-3 went flat from a bolt or something of that nature. Too big to plug or patch. Got ahold of a pickup and a trailer and took it to the nearest dealer for a new E-3. Didn't have the opportunity to shop for a car tire as was out of my local area. Now I have to start all over again waiting for this one to wear out. I will say one thing for the E-3, it didn't go all the way flat to the rim. Stayed up on the side wall. I was impressed. First flat I've had in well over twenty years of riding. |
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Tourer
Posts: 412
Fargo, ND | Just any FYI... I took the rear off my Vision at 8,000 and threw it in the attic for another day. That 'day' will come to trade the vision in for a new one or something else. A dealer won't take your car tire...so it's nice to have something useable to reinstall prior to the trade. |
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Visionary
Posts: 1436
| John, you got some kind of picky dealers over your way. My Vic dealer won't install the tire because he is afraid the Wing guys will then want him to do it, but my indy/BD dealer who did all the work on my RG's said no problem and will be installing it tomorrow morning. I'm having my old shop/IndyBD dealer do more and more of my Vision work. I need someone reliable whose quality control is good and who actually does the work the way it was suppose to be done the first time. Perfect example is my radio, they took one look at the bar code display and asked why Victory hadn't replaced it since the curcuit board is fried. Good question eh? |
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Visionary
Posts: 1340
Gainesville Fl Home of the Gators | Your all gonna die I tell you..............
but I doubt it will be from a car tire |
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Visionary
Posts: 1436
| kevin, lol...... your a funny dude, lol. |
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Tourer
Posts: 412
Fargo, ND |
I coulda / shoulda have been 'seriously killed' years ago in many of my activities! |
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Tourer
Posts: 506
Woodland Hills, CA | I'm sure car tires are nice if all you want to do is go straight, but if that's what I wanted to do, I'd just put the top down on my car. I don't know about anyone else, but I love to ride and take advantage the great handling of the the Vision. Which means all sorts of roads, especially twisties. And I would never even consider altering the performance of the bike just to save a few bucks.
After spending all the money we did on these bikes, I just do not understand why anyone would want to compromise their performance in any way, especially just to save what amounts to a very few dollars. But that is just my opinion. To each his own. |
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Visionary
Posts: 1308
Sand Rock, AL United States | It's not "a very few dollars" It's several hundred dollars , especially when you factor in the single purchase of the most affordable mentioned DS examples are $81-$85 as opposed to 2 or 3 motorcycle tires one would have to purchase to equal the miles on one car tire. I can't speak for performance compromise on the Vision but the difference was negligible on my 2004 Honda Magna |
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Tourer
Posts: 506
Woodland Hills, CA | jimtom - 2009-08-12 7:26 AM
It's not "a very few dollars" It's several hundred dollars , especially when you factor in the single purchase of the most affordable mentioned DS examples are $81-$85 as opposed to 2 or 3 motorcycle tires one would have to purchase to equal the miles on one car tire. I can't speak for performance compromise on the Vision but the difference was negligible on my 2004 Honda Magna
Its a bit like buying a hi definition, big screen plasma TV, then watching video tapes through a coax cable to save money. Why make the investment in a performance product the first place? You say the performance difference was negligible, but I would be shocked if you made that same statement after riding 100 miles of canyon roads (if you survived!).
But like I said, to each his own.
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Tourer
Posts: 550
Tacoma, WA | Wizard, I suppose you have actually ridden on a c/t with your bike? That is how you come to your experience, right? So you know how they handle? I have one on my Honda, and will have one on my Vision when the Dunlop wears out. And yes, I do twisties all the time with absolutely no ill effects. Its like buying a high definition plasma TV, and watching blu-ray discs , really. But its like getting the blu-ray player for FREE.-----Metalguy
But as you say, to each his own.-------Metalguy |
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Cruiser
Posts: 72
Newberry, Mi. | Wizard523 - 2009-08-12 10:55 AM
Its a bit like buying a hi definition, big screen plasma TV, then watching video tapes through a coax cable to save money. Why make the investment in a performance product the first place? You say the performance difference was negligible, but I would be shocked if you made that same statement after riding 100 miles of canyon roads (if you survived!).
But like I said, to each his own.
You're certainly welcome to voice your opinion, but before you pass on your opinion as fact you might want to actually educate yourself about the subject matter. No offense intended but your reaction is very typical of someone who is just going with their gut rather than exploring the matter. IMO, based on the information I've seen, the results are to the contrary of the description you stated above.
Here are a couple video links and a few links to more information on using a car tire on a motorcycle.
Perhaps your your opinion of this will change a bit once you are better informed. And hey, I've done half the homework for you. 
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T0ztsRPJmVI&feature=related
(you might want to turn off the sound on this one!)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NYhkCA_JwJM&feature=fvw
Here are some informative links:
http://lifeisaroad.com/stories/2004/10/27/theDarkSide.html (This is a good read)
http://mcdarksiders.com/WhytheDarkside.html
http://mcdarksiders.com/Home.html
Although I'm not trying to convince anybody to change their minds, I hope at least, the exchange of opinions will be based on actual information rather than just a "gut" feeling. 
Edited by Rob41 2009-08-12 1:38 PM
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Visionary
Posts: 1436
| Ok guys a second opinion and you guys KNOW I hold nothing back. I assisted with the install this morning and everything went just fine installing it. As Flatsix indicated there isn't a great deal of room if you have the hitchdoc on your bike but it fits. I'm not sure yet if I'll leave the hitch on since I am not trailering currently. I was going to remove it before the install but I wanted to see just how tight it really is. Basically you have about 1/8 to 3/8 inch of clearance on each side between the tire and down supports. I purposely bottomed the suspension several times to see if I could make it rub but it didn't.
First impression was the tire wouldn't be staying on long but to give it a fair shake I took the bike out to run a quick 100 miles off and put it through its paces. Straight line the bike is pretty stable but you will notice off camber ridges in the road. How bad? Well if you have run the stock E3 down as in the 10k mile range it handles the same. Remember I'm being extremely critical with my eval here. Turning at slow speed is fine you won't notice a thing, in fact someone posted some video of a vision scraping boards and I mentioned the ride like a pro vid. The bike will do all the same board scraping, tight circles, figure 8, etc you've seen on that vid with the car tire and my butt didn't pucker even once. At moderate speeds and high speed twisties it requires a little more input. How much? Well if you've ever ridden a bike with a 250 series tire or larger, that much more input. I've run the dragon several times on this bike already and some other more twisty roads and I wouldn't hesitate to bust down these roads with the car tire, it grips fine and swings directions upon rider input just like a bike tire. Contact patch is as great or greater than with a bike tire even laid over. I even took the bike down a few miles of checkered road and it is actually more stable than with the E3.
The biggest negative I can come up with is the ridge wander. It wants to pull a little towards the down side of a ridge. I don't want to give any false impressions as this isn't bad but it is something that one should be aware of.
Wizard, I actually just did 100 miles of twisty "canyon roads" as you called them, steep sweepers with speed markings of 15mph at speeds in excess of 40 in these zones, the 35 mph sweepers I was taking at 60 no problem. I'm NOT trying to convince anyone to go this route, so you may hold whatever opinion you like.
What I will say is that I have NEVER heard of anyone riding on a car tire having a blowout, tire shred or get off as the result of running a car tire. Folks have been running them regularly on Valk's and wings for more than 20 years. So while you may hold the opinion that car tires are for cars and bike tires are for bikes.... or that car tires are dangerous on bikes.... the evidence does not support that conclusion.
I'm still early in the install/mileage to make any final conclusions, but to assert that folks are swapping to car tires simply to save a few bucks is not looking at the bigger picture. It is a viable long distance alternative which may be of benefit to those on the board who rack up a lot of miles quickly, say 20k or more in a year or a little over. If you are riding 3-4k a year this probably isn't a good alternative for you. Putting the info out there for folks who it will benefit and/or that have an interest in knowing is a good thing. |
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Cruiser
Posts: 72
Newberry, Mi. | Hey Teach,
Thanks for sharing your first hand impressions. I noticed you referred to the contact patch while cornering. From what I've read and from all the pictures I've seen, it looks like the car tire actually conforms to the pavement during cornering which increases the contact patch. This explains why the center of a car tire on a motorcycle shows more wear than the edges. It's very much like a motorcycle tire in terms of where the greatest amount of wear occurs.
Keep the shiny side up and the "Darkside" down!
EDIT: If the only up side to using a car tire on a bike was the money savings I'd just stick with a motorcycle tire. From doing a lot of research and a lot of reading it seems most people who use car tires find that the wet and dry weather traction to be greatly improved as well as braking, durability, and longevity. Any one of those reasons is enough for me to give it a try.
Plus I look at the amount of engineering designed into the two tires. On the motorcycle tire there is very little siping and grooving for harsh conditions compared to a quality car tire. I have to go back to the Middle East very soon, but when I return I'll be mounting a car tire on my Vic. Both of them if I like it.
One of the fellas here in the forum had a great story about a "shortcut" that led to him dropping his Vision a couple times on a road with deep sand due to the rear tire sliding out.. I really have to wonder if his bike would have gone down if he had a car tire in the back.
Edited by Rob41 2009-08-12 1:56 PM
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Tourer
Posts: 447
Cleveland, GA | Rob41 - 2009-08-12 2:32 PM One of the fellas here in the forum had a great story about a "shortcut" that led to him dropping his Vision a couple times on a road with deep sand due to the rear tire sliding out.. I really have to wonder if his bike would have gone down if he had a car tire in the back. That would be me. I really couldn't say if it would or not... the surface was really fine-textured silty stuff that looked like it had washed down off the hills and was really weird to ride through. The wider surface area may well have worked, but I ain't a-gonna go back down that road to find out!  |
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Cruiser
Posts: 72
Newberry, Mi. | I don't blame ya, I'd avoid that road too. |
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Visionary
Posts: 1436
| ok latest update and impressions now that I've put a few miles (over 1k) on the bike with this tire. I just ordered a new AV72 for the rear and I'll have it installed when the radio is replaced in the next week.
Why am I changing it out for a bike tire, I suppose is the likely question.... Fair shake is a little over 1000 miles now on the tire in the past couple of days. While it does 99.99% of the things right, I ride a lot of roads with the off camber ridges I mentioned in the previous post, and a lot of night riding. Being able to see and avoid or predict the reaction to most by day is not an issue but I don't want to be looking hard for road hazards at night. So the long and short is I feel far more comfy/confident with my reactions on a bike tire than I do with the car tire. Hard to teach an old dog.....
What I will say is if you ride a lot of highway type roads and/or tow a trailer this might well be a good option for you. It does everything well and/or as good as a bike tire, just not my cup of tea given the poor nature of roads around these parts.
On the plus side it is no money lost as the tire will fit the Mrs cage perfectly, lol..... |
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Cruiser
Posts: 208
Wichita, Kansas | I have to admit the dark side looks interesting. I'm at 8,000 and my rear tire is nearly flat in the center. If you see a curve in a road in Kansas, it's probably an Interstate entrance. Along with many others, I'm sure, I wondered how a car tire would do twisties. From watching some of the videos, it looks like they may well do pretty good. But here's something I hadn't thought of: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ur9nfBpMldQ Sorry if its' not a hot link. Anyway, it appears that if you ride a LOT of twisties, the edges take a lot of wear, and not being as thick as the main tread . . . well, watch the video. It might not be such a good idea for those who aren't flatlanders.
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Visionary
Posts: 8144
New Bohemia, VA | http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ur9nfBpMldQ
it sounds to me there were other factors involved. did the tire fit well, did you have proper pressure, etc. any tire is prone to some sort of failure and perhaps not all car tires are suited for the darkside.
it is a case of rider beware of what you are doing and don't do it off what someone else says. it doesn't tell me it can't be done, as there are many folks that claim many great miles on a car tire mounted to a motorcycle.
let me add one more point of interest. I have a friend first hand who's son was nearly killed in a car accident when the tire blew. come to find out the tire was of a very old lot, but was sold as new since it had just come off the shelf. There is has been several reports and investagations and making the tire dealers to pull off the tires from the shelf when they are too old to sell. could this tire have fallen into that category.
i'm just saying, saying, the video only showed me that the tire was blown and it was on a GL1800, i don't think the glove fits from the video evidence alone IMHO... |
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Visionary
Posts: 1436
| As I was researching the use of car tires over the past couple years one thing I did notice was that "SOME" folks have chosen to run a snow tire instead of a traditional all season. The ONLY rational I could find was these tires are significantly cheaper in cost. I also considered the tread pattern as a possible reason as many of the narrower car tires have tread patterns that are not symetrical. There are numerous reasons to avoid these tires as well like squared edges and stiffer compound.
I've laid the Vision on its side and I have a tire surface contact patch of at least 2", and I am nowhere near the sidewall. With this said this is the first (if it can be substanciated) case I've seen, heard or read of a darkside failure. One thing that is throwing me about the video is that most GL's run a 205, not a 195... odd.
In any case for me it is a psychological factor leading me to change back and not necessarily a mechanical reason. I have at least 20 friends who run darkside and have for going on a decade now, they all love them which played a part in me giving this a go. I guess I'm just too rooted in my old ways...... T
ps... I agree with VAryder the video is very suspect. Why would they pull the tire from a wrecked bike and not video it on the rim? I smell a rat....
Edited by Teach 2009-08-15 6:13 PM
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Puddle Jumper
Posts: 28
Reston, Virginia | I put on about 15K miles a year riding both for long distance and everyday commuting. On my last bike I had a car tire (CT) mounted and found that the thing that convinced me that darksiding was the better approach was well beyond the cost savings...which is considerable...but not the main point. The confidence in rain and long term durability. In rain, the CT disbursed the water much better and I found it tracked much better in heavy weather. Also the CT lasts much longer than the MC tire. Even after 10K miles, the CT looked brand new. To me that confidence knowing I had good tread under me was the clincher. I have 7K on my current rear tire and plan to replace it with a CT when the time comes. |
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Puddle Jumper
Posts: 28
Reston, Virginia | I just finished installing a Bridgestone Potenza G019 Grid 195/55/R16 87H on my VV and I love the way it looks and handles. As I have stated earlier, I put a lot of miles on my rides each year (9K in 3 months so far) and the car tire is the way to go. I took it out for a decent ride and like the way it rides. It feels very stable on the highway at speed, not like MC tire that tends to wander more at speed. I will keep everyone posted on how it goes but so far so good. |
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Iron Butt
Posts: 623
| i am a twistie fan, most of my riding in the eastern TN, North GA, and Western NC passing HD's as I go thru the mountains. I am affraid this would kill what I enjoy doing with my bike. I will be riding to colorado from Georgia nest fall.....would be nice to have on the way out and back, just would want to carry my E3 to put back on for the twisties |
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Car Tire
