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Tourer
Posts: 301
Buffalo Grove,Ill | Glad your going to be ok man.
I also watched it many times and just before the wobble is a definite depression in the road. Since you were on the brakes as you say, after the dip the suspension came up and the brakes locked. At that point you were along for the ride.
Last night i had my Vision to 110 mph with no wobble. But after seeing this i think i will re think the triple digits on the speedo.
Get well soon .
Dean |
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Visionary
Posts: 3006
San Antonio, TX | Craig,
Thank goodness that you will be healing up soon. When I first saw the video I was thinking the worst.
I have locked up my back tire three times in the past year. It gets really exciting when that happens to a 900 pound bike. I have been lucky. All of the lockups have happened below 40 mph on straight roads.
The next time you guys come down to San Antonio or the Hill Country please let me know so we can meet up. I have plenty of vacation days this year and need to burn through them before December ends.
P.S. Thanks for posting the video. The video will help other riders. I am betting the Victory engineers would like to see it as well.
When I looked through the video I did not see any Sheetrock on the side of the road. I knew then that was not "pollolittle" with his Sheetrock seeking Vision.
Take care and heal soon!!!
Paul |
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Tourer
Posts: 340
Regina Saskatchewan Canada | I'm glad Spock that you are OK and only have a few cuts and abrasions that will heal with time and a little care and love.
For the rest of us here are my thoughts on curves and cornering. I know I can handle a curve with little drama doing 20 - 30 mph over the posted curve speed. If there is no posted speed then the speed of the curve is the speed of the highway. Going through the curve you should be gradually rolling on the throttle not braking and if for some unseen reason you have to brake after you are leaned into the curve it should be with both brakes for maximum braking power to avoid sliding out the rear wheel. The trick is to go into the curve cold and come out hot. Do all your braking before the curve while you are still vertical not in the curve when you are leaned over. You have way more control under power than you do braking and powering through a curve maximizes your lean angle . . . . power through the curve.
My rule of thumb on unfamiliar roads to go into the curve 20 mph over the posted. If that feels to slow I increase to 25 over posted on the next and so on until I find a rhythm I am comfortable with on that highway. If you find yourself panicking in mid corner and snapping off the throttle and/or braking, it's a message you didn't decelerate enough before entering the curve. |
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Visionary
Posts: 2118
Pitt Meadows, BC Canada | Watching the video as Spock struggled to get up - I damn near cried as I felt the pain he must be in. Glad to hear he will be well, and live long and prosper.
Thanks for sharing and once I am over my nightmares, I will learn from his pain - as I am sure all of us will.
And thanks to all of you who took the time to analyse the video to document possible causes - this is good work and will benefit us all.
Craig, heal quickly and ride! |
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Cruiser
Posts: 170
Houston, TX | We all take it on the chin at some point. Glad to hear you're OK spock.
Ride Long and Prosper...
Edited by elvis441 2009-09-15 10:25 PM
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Visionary
Posts: 8144
New Bohemia, VA | glad it was no worse spock. hope you'll get all that stuff you want to do with the vision during your recovery. |
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Visionary
Posts: 1484
LaPorte,Tx. | Spock, really glad your going to be ok, and will be back riding soon. Thanks for posting the video, it is hard to watch, but it is also good to watch, brings everything back into perspective. Would be happy to go with you back to Big Bend to ride 170.
On the front forks, I know when the dealer did the 30k service on my forks they really made an improvement, way less dive when braking.
Take care. |
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Cruiser
Posts: 127
| Spock, thanks for the explanation- I watched it many times trying to find what, if anything, you had done wrong- without success. My wife started to get nervous about it when I explained that there wasn't any obvious action precipitating the wobble. Then I showed her that the Vision was still on the tipovers, and that calmed her down a lot. As you say, on any other bike....
Hope you're back on that horse soon. |
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Cruiser
Posts: 271
Belding Michigan | Thanks for the posting it made me very aware of things last night when I went out for a spin. Braking before the curve and coming out hot was what kept me from smucking a baby deer last night. At that moment I thought about the vidieo and was glad that I was on the alert. Hope you heal quick and glad that you are doing OK. Archie |
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Visionary
Posts: 2027
Brighton, TN | Spock, you've been on here about as long as I have, I've read quite a bit about yours and Fergy's high energy runs. OUCH! My head always spins when I hear about another outing you guys have had running high double and triple digit runs. OUCH! I like to get up there, I just can't seem to keep it up there. OUCH! I don't have a set of CAJONES that large. OUCH! I would love to see what this bike could do on a closed course, but I don't know if I would still have a set big enough to test the limits of the bike.
So have you had the forks maintenanced, and if so, does it not put it back to stock bounce. OUCH! May have to check out the Traxxion suspension upgrade! Still OUCH!
The still frame with the mile marker and arm on one side and helmet on the other. OUCH! Hope it all goes back together in the right places. |
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Visionary
Posts: 2027
Brighton, TN | radioteacher - "When I looked through the video I did not see any Sheetrock on the side of the road. I knew then that was not "pollolittle" with his Sheetrock seeking Vision." OOOOHHHHHHHHHH, AAAWWWWWWW! Such a memory, however, mine fortunately, never made it onto its side. Had that been me, I would have just took into the dirt and rode it like a dirt bike. That's how I ROLL! Now, that would have made for a video, of sliding across, then going through the ditch and then jumping back up on the road. YEEHAW!! Spock, did you even let it cross your mind to ride it through the ditch. Just curious! |
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Iron Butt
Posts: 721
| Spock,
Hoping you have a speedy recovery, shoulder injuries can be a bear to get healed up from!
Not to diminish my concern for your personal recovery, could you tell us what kind of damage happened to you Vision? Did it need to be towed or was someone else able to ride it to a repair/storage location? |
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Puddle Jumper
Posts: 8
| That was a must see video if only to make you think about your own riding habits and/or the lack of skills we all have as riders. I have done the same thing about 6 years ago. I was going into a turn too hot hit the brakes hard the bike stood up and off in the dirt I went off rode, the ABS saved me from going down. This not a plug for ABS I have had many bikes after and did not get the ABS. The point is I would not have gone off rode if I did not panic and I could have made that turn if I would have just leaned over more. I was lucky there was a dirt run off and not a wall. As far as the oscillation go's on the Vision I could not make the Vision oscillate for the life of me. I got the bike up to 90 and hit the bars and wiggle the bars and try to get it to oscillate but on go. The frame on the Vision is so rigid the could not get it to flex at all. Try this on other bikes and you'll see what I mean.
Spock will get all healed up and be a better rider, yes he'll still ride hard and fast as ever, it's in his blood. The next time he pushes it hard into the corner he'll remember the video he was in. You see I too ride, just like Spock and I'll remember his video.
IBKING
Edited by ibking 2009-09-16 11:12 AM
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Tourer
Posts: 363
Goldsboro, NC | Spock - 2009-09-15 7:34 PM
I applied front brake and may have given too much front brake but got a lot of dive on the bike as you can see in the video, more than I have ever gotten before. When the front dived this much there was a lot of weight transferred to the front and off the rear tire which allowed the rear tire to skid and break loose and the tank slapping started. In a corner it is really hard to recover from a tank slapper.
I watched the moment before the wobble about 20 times in a row. What I originally thought was a dip in the road is probably the dive you are talking about. If so, then that was truly a lot of dive. I'd have someone check that, if possible. I'm trying to come up with a way that I can have my dealer check mine, just in case.
Well wishes and thank you for starting this thread and posting the followup. It is a great heads-up and lesson learned. |
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Tourer
Posts: 460
Centennial, CO | Spock...glad you are good! Go forth Number 1 and get your ship out there, fight the good fight and win! BTW - My other road name is Shatner! LMAO!
All,
I read through ALL of the posts so far and there is one glaring thing that I never heard mentioned. Yes, everyone mentioned the posts on the road. However, one thing to keep in mind and the thing that Spock did do was try to avoid the first one. Of course, the 2nd was another story.
PLEASE keep in mind that any posts on the side of the road will tear a car in half giving the correct circumstances. That being said, PLEASE avoid these at all cost (trees and other near non-movable objects too!).
Why do I say this so directly? I have a buddy that has been an EMT for many years now. Many times he has told me about yet another rider that didn't respect the grip (not a dig at Spock at all) and was riding WAY outside their limits. They hit a post and severed a limb. In one bad case, a head.
He explained in no uncertain terms that these posts are must like a hot knife through butter. I asked about the square ones that is prevalent in the video and he told me at that time that it didn't matter. Its a post and it will rip and tear things more than you can imagine.
So, with that above, I am EXTREMELY glad the 2nd post only caused minimal damage. Spock, I am SO glad you were wearing a helmet or we may not be able to say, GET WELL SOON and GET BACK ON AND RIDE LIKE THERE IS NO TOMORROW!
I too watched the video and could not believe how well the bike handled a bad situation (when it left the pavement). I wondered if the bike was actually sitting on you at one point because it seemed to take forever for you to get up. When you did get up, I was glad you had your wits about you in order to make a radio call! |
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Cruiser
Posts: 143
Sparta, WI | Down but not out. Good luck to you and thanks for sharing the video. |
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Tourer
Posts: 495
Carrollton, TX | Travelin' Man - 2009-09-16 9:31 AM Spock, Hoping you have a speedy recovery, shoulder injuries can be a bear to get healed up from! Not to diminish my concern for your personal recovery, could you tell us what kind of damage happened to you Vision? Did it need to be towed or was someone else able to ride it to a repair/storage location? Most of the damage to the Vision was caused by the reflector pole. We had the bike towed but with a little work it could have been ridden. The left front tip-over protector got pushed up and it pushed the floor board up to the gear shifter so you could not shift the bike. We could have used a hammer, rock or come-a-long to straighten it out enough to shift and rode the bike. If I had someone to ride the bike we probably would have done that. |
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Tourer
Posts: 495
Carrollton, TX | ibking - 2009-09-16 10:09 AM That was a must see video if only to make you think about your own riding habits and/or the lack of skills we all have as riders. I have done the same thing about 6 years ago. I was going into a turn too hot hit the brakes hard the bike stood up and off in the dirt I went off rode, the ABS saved me from going down. This not a plug for ABS I have had many bikes after and did not get the ABS. The point is I would not have gone off rode if I did not panic and I could have made that turn if I would have just leaned over more. I was lucky there was a dirt run off and not a wall. As far as the oscillation go's on the Vision I could not make the Vision oscillate for the life of me. I got the bike up to 90 and hit the bars and wiggle the bars and try to get it to oscillate but on go. The frame on the Vision is so rigid the could not get it to flex at all. Try this on other bikes and you'll see what I mean. Spock will get all healed up and be a better rider, yes he'll still ride hard and fast as ever, it's in his blood. The next time he pushes it hard into the corner he'll remember the video he was in. You see I too ride, just like Spock and I'll remember his video. IBKING Thanks Joe, The Vision is rock solid and I have never gotten it to oscillate until now. The oscillation was caused by huge transfer of weight to the front wheel and the rear tire loosing traction and skidding while cornering. Any bike will do this under these circumstances. The front suspension now that it has over 38,000 miles on it even though I had the fork oil changed at 31,000 miles it still dives a lot more than a new Vision and the dampening of the front suspension is not what it used to be. I am thinking of having Traxxion in Atlanta, GA do a custom front suspension for the Vision to give it much better ride and handling characteristics. I agree in that I could have made the corner without heavy braking and just applied strong counter steering but I was caught off guard, taking in the scenery, panicked, and applied to much front brake too fast. If my front suspension was like new and I had ABS brakes I think I would have been regardless of my actions. I hope none of you do what I did.  |
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Tourer
Posts: 495
Carrollton, TX | ElroyJ - 2009-09-16 10:57 AM Spock...glad you are good! Go forth Number 1 and get your ship out there, fight the good fight and win! BTW - My other road name is Shatner! LMAO! All, I read through ALL of the posts so far and there is one glaring thing that I never heard mentioned. Yes, everyone mentioned the posts on the road. However, one thing to keep in mind and the thing that Spock did do was try to avoid the first one. Of course, the 2nd was another story. PLEASE keep in mind that any posts on the side of the road will tear a car in half giving the correct circumstances. That being said, PLEASE avoid these at all cost (trees and other near non-movable objects too!). Why do I say this so directly? I have a buddy that has been an EMT for many years now. Many times he has told me about yet another rider that didn't respect the grip (not a dig at Spock at all) and was riding WAY outside their limits. They hit a post and severed a limb. In one bad case, a head. He explained in no uncertain terms that these posts are must like a hot knife through butter. I asked about the square ones that is prevalent in the video and he told me at that time that it didn't matter. Its a post and it will rip and tear things more than you can imagine. So, with that above, I am EXTREMELY glad the 2nd post only caused minimal damage. Spock, I am SO glad you were wearing a helmet or we may not be able to say, GET WELL SOON and GET BACK ON AND RIDE LIKE THERE IS NO TOMORROW! I too watched the video and could not believe how well the bike handled a bad situation (when it left the pavement). I wondered if the bike was actually sitting on you at one point because it seemed to take forever for you to get up. When you did get up, I was glad you had your wits about you in order to make a radio call! Thanks James, You are so right about the posts and near non-movable objects. I swerved to miss the first pole and was successful (see the picture below) but I could not miss the second one. It is really freaky how the pole hit me as it did. The impact to the face was terrific. When I sat up and noticed my fade was covered in blood the pain was from the mouth area. I was feeling for my teeth as it felt like I had lost them all. I thought the blood was coming from the mouth. The teeth were a little loose and soar but the blood was coming from the cuts on my face and my nose as the left sinus area had really taken a lot of impact. It took 6 days for the sinus area to totally heal up.
(Avoiding first pole.jpg)
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 Avoiding first pole.jpg (39KB - 4 downloads)
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Tourer
Posts: 495
Carrollton, TX | pollolittle - 2009-09-16 9:13 AM radioteacher - "When I looked through the video I did not see any Sheetrock on the side of the road. I knew then that was not "pollolittle" with his Sheetrock seeking Vision." OOOOHHHHHHHHHH, AAAWWWWWWW! Such a memory, however, mine fortunately, never made it onto its side. Had that been me, I would have just took into the dirt and rode it like a dirt bike. That's how I ROLL! Now, that would have made for a video, of sliding across, then going through the ditch and then jumping back up on the road. YEEHAW!! Spock, did you even let it cross your mind to ride it through the ditch. Just curious! My first thought was to ride it though the ditch after I realized I could not make he corner with the tank slapping but I could not get the bike back under control to ride it out. Once I hit the gravel with the tank slapping going on the rear end slid further to the right and out from under me and onto the tip-over protectors I went sliding into the second pole. |
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Visionary
Posts: 3006
San Antonio, TX | Craig,
The video really shows the benefits of staying with the motorcycle and not just "Laying it down". I have heard stories about the people ditching the bike when a problem happens.
Since you stayed with the Vision as long as you did, you let the tires and then tipovers slow your body down from 76 mph to whatever the impact speed was. Tires and tipovers can be replaced easier then skin.
If you would have left the Vision when the when the front end started slapping, I am sure the injuries would have been much worse..
Take care and get well soon!
Paul |
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Puddle Jumper
Posts: 20
Fort Myers, FL United States | Craig,
Best wishes on a speedy recovery. I hope it helps you feel a bit better to know how helpful sharing your experience has been for the rest of us.
Thanks,
Ron |
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Tourer
Posts: 460
Centennial, CO | I can only imagine how much that hurt. The fact that you were coherent enough to get up and use the CB is amazing to me. I can say that I am sure I would still be laying there today. Ha ha! Ok, that was an ironical laugh...but still...I can't imagine!
I am so glad you are still around to be able to discuss this with you and hopefully one day to meet up and take a ride together!
God Bless ya my brother! |
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Tourer
Posts: 520
Simi Valley, CA | Wow.... thanks for your insight Spock. Interesting having a video of your crash and that you can talk about it and we all can learn from it. I am glad you are on the mend.
Ride safe
Tim |
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Cruiser
Posts: 249
Montreal, QC Canada | Craig, Best wishes for a speedy recovery and hope you are back on two wheels soon. |
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Get well soon! - Vision crash video
