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Iron Butt
Posts: 669
Peachtree City, GA | Jedi Jeff - 2011-03-23 10:03 AM
I'm curious so please indulge me. What do you think is missing from Vision-Riders (and it's sister sites) that you all think we should have?
Is it a sense of community?
Member discounts?
Sponsored Events?
More content? If so, like what?
One feature I would like to see is when I hit the new threads button... (it does a great job of showing me the new threads) - BUT - I would also like to see the new items that are listed in the Classified sections as well....
Just saying it would be a nice feature for those of us that forget that it is there and miss out on some deals...
I have always viewed the Vision-Riders forum as a more "no nonsense technical forum" then TheVMC and in my opinion TheVOG is a joke...
BUT that is not to say I don't get something from each one of them. I do otherwise I would not look at each... |
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Visionary
Posts: 1359
New Bohemia, Va | If we are doing the compare, do not go the VOG way, I just don't get it, though it appears a few ldo ike it. It seems to be a marketing tool more than anything else.
The VRnetwork site is good too, but it just doesn't seem to be very active. It might be because folks are too much on facebook or something.
I do agree on the new thread functionality features for the classifieds, I don't think about it because I always come in looking at the "new threads" and that doesn't show. I think from the home page though it shows the newest threads for most areas. |
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Visionary
Posts: 4278
| Why change whats not broken? You come here to read and see whats going on. Right? So you can't take a extra few minuets to movies the mouse around or is to much exercise for you. |
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Puddle Jumper
Posts: 19
| Cap'n Nemo - 2011-03-23 4:16 PM
If we are doing the compare, do not go the VOG way, I just don't get it, though it appears a few ldo ike it. It seems to be a marketing tool more than anything else.
The VRnetwork site is good too, but it just doesn't seem to be very active. It might be because folks are too much on facebook or something.
I do agree on the new thread functionality features for the classifieds, I don't think about it because I always come in looking at the "new threads" and that doesn't show. I think from the home page though it shows the newest threads for most areas.
Okay I have been following this thread and staying out of it but I have to ask as a long time member of the VOG what are they marketing? They don't sell memberships, charge dues, make any money off of the classified section, put together a heck of a free lunch for us at bike week and gives us some really good videos on the products we love. So what are they marketing. Just curious. |
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Puddle Jumper
Posts: 19
| I have seen sites that mix their classified section with new post. You don't want to go there, the new thread just fill up with people selling crap. |
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Visionary
Posts: 1359
New Bohemia, Va | dsjr70 - 2011-03-24 8:35 AM
Cap'n Nemo - 2011-03-23 4:16 PM
If we are doing the compare, do not go the VOG way, I just don't get it, though it appears a few ldo ike it. It seems to be a marketing tool more than anything else.
The VRnetwork site is good too, but it just doesn't seem to be very active. It might be because folks are too much on facebook or something.
I do agree on the new thread functionality features for the classifieds, I don't think about it because I always come in looking at the "new threads" and that doesn't show. I think from the home page though it shows the newest threads for most areas.
Okay I have been following this thread and staying out of it but I have to ask as a long time member of the VOG what are they marketing? They don't sell memberships, charge dues, make any money off of the classified section, put together a heck of a free lunch for us at bike week and gives us some really good videos on the products we love. So what are they marketing. Just curious.
just my take when I visited a long time ago, I don't hang out there, but I'm entitled to an opinion, JMHO!
Edited by Cap'n Nemo 2011-03-24 9:51 AM
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Puddle Jumper
Posts: 19
| Cap'n Nemo - 2011-03-24 10:50 AM
dsjr70 - 2011-03-24 8:35 AM
Cap'n Nemo - 2011-03-23 4:16 PM
If we are doing the compare, do not go the VOG way, I just don't get it, though it appears a few ldo ike it. It seems to be a marketing tool more than anything else.
The VRnetwork site is good too, but it just doesn't seem to be very active. It might be because folks are too much on facebook or something.
I do agree on the new thread functionality features for the classifieds, I don't think about it because I always come in looking at the "new threads" and that doesn't show. I think from the home page though it shows the newest threads for most areas.
Okay I have been following this thread and staying out of it but I have to ask as a long time member of the VOG what are they marketing? They don't sell memberships, charge dues, make any money off of the classified section, put together a heck of a free lunch for us at bike week and gives us some really good videos on the products we love. So what are they marketing. Just curious.
just my take when I visited a long time ago, I don't hang out there, but I'm entitled to an opinion, JMHO!
Yes you are but usually when someone gives an opinion they follow it up with some reasons. |
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Iron Butt
Posts: 965
New York State | Hey do not knock "theVog.net. I belong to both sites wwwvmc.com but I have to send a check to the VMC the VOG is free. Now someone will say you get what you pay for.
Well I got a free lunch from the VOG.
The VMC is a good reasource as is this board but I belonged to this board and the VOG first because they were free. I later met some VMC members and paid.
This board is fine for telling tales of Victory motorcycle rides or looking up a repair but there it ends
The VOG is open to anyone who rides or is thinking about riding a motorcycle or trike of any brand much like ABATE plus it has a off topic side many find enjoyable.
The VMC is trying to be important in the Victory world, much as HOG is in HD land I do not oppose the desire and wish them well.
I personaly rode Triumph's because the 'Shoulds" that come with HD make me laugh,ie You should wear black HD shirts everyday, you should only hang with other HDers .
I ride two wheels and if I see another vehicle in trouble I assist if I can no matter the amount of wheels or brand.
Victory's are strong solid machines and as long as that is the case then Triumph's and Victory's will be my rides if either company cheeps out and the product slips I will shop Yamaha or Honda if they offer what I desire in a road machine.
HD and I will never be joined just to much baggage
Edited by Trekwolf164 2011-03-24 10:53 AM
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Visionary
Posts: 1359
New Bohemia, Va | I don't think I was knocking it terms of form and function of this site comparing it to that site. Both meets people's needs in different ways. Some find the VOG very appealing as evident by the rebuttals of a small simple comment, but I don't think Vision-Riders will appeal to me if it went that way. I'm not into having 40 differents sites all trying to do the same thing either, nor do I have time to go to multiple of sites to see what is going on. Now, to keep us on track and target of the original post, this is about promoting the brand and helping everyone to suceed, but for some reason us Victory riders are bound to argue instead of coming together for the greater cause. We use the forums to complain and moan about problems and publicly say the bike sucks, then in the same breath say its the best bike in the world.
The VMC, that is, the Victory Motorcyle Club is not a website, it is the people that owns Victory motorcycles, the website is ancillary and a venue to promote and communicate. We all have the capability at our finger tips to create as many websites as we want about anything we want. But the best way to promote the brand like HOG has and GWRRA, we have to take and do something as good or better if we are to get in the game like them. Nobody cares about Indian at all but those that do have a very good banding together as well. But Victory, well, I just haven't figured it out after 3 1/2 years of lonership. Us who ride Victory as a whole is the perfect example of you can't please all the people all the time, and it is nearly impossible to please even some. I see that I'm failing at my mission and I guess it might be best to pack my bags and go away. If you see me on the road, wave, I'll be the one on the Midnight Cherry Classic Vision with the big smile on my face.. If you all want to join my club, come on.
Edited by Cap'n Nemo 2011-03-24 10:52 AM
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Puddle Jumper
Posts: 19
| Trekwolf164 - 2011-03-24 11:30 AM
Well I got a free lunch from the VOG.
Don't forget the free patches, pins and seat warmers... Although the seat warmers win hands down!
(VOG Meetup 2.jpg)
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Iron Butt
Posts: 965
New York State | dsjr70 - 2011-03-24 10:52 AM
Trekwolf164 - 2011-03-24 11:30 AM
Well I got a free lunch from the VOG.
Don't forget the free patches, pins and seat warmers... Although the seat warmers win hands down!
Shhh if everyone finds out about the pin and patches being free the lines for food will get to long at the next meet up.  |
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Puddle Jumper
Posts: 19
| Cap'n Nemo - 2011-03-24 11:50 AM
The VMC, that is, the Victory Motorcyle Club is not a website, it is the people that owns Victory motorcycles, the website is ancillary and a venue to promote and communicate.
Okay, I will bite.... First I will say coming on to a website to promote another is just wrong. With that said, the VMC is a website AND a club. You have to pay seperate dues for each so they are seperate entities.
I bought a Victory because I wanted an American made bike. I looked at HD and then found Victory. I am on #5 and in two weeks will be purchasing a CC. Most Vic riders I know are just guys that like to ride. If they wanted to be part of a club they would have bought an HD and joined HOG. If you look at the mileage on our bikes they are usually substantially higher then the average cruiser rider. I ride with my friends, they have Harley's, Suzuki's, Kawasaki's ect... I also own a Honda, that is another thing that seperates a Vic owner, they usually are not brand snobs, they test road a bike and bought the one that best suited them.
So when I started looking at Vics I went to several websites. I found several, did my homework and went and bought a couple of Vegas's (one for me and the ex). Shortly afterwards I did pipes and a processor, I had and issue with the install and posted on the VOG and the VMC. I was pissed at my dealer (now out of business) because of the lack of support he gave me after the bike had been in there 5 times. I kept monitoring the post and the VOG members helped me out. The two comments I got from the VMC were 1. that I should become a paying member and 2. to find another dealer. It ended up one of the VOG members gave me contact information for a guy at Ness and after talking with him they found I had a bad Big Shot processor.
My second experience was when I was looking at the Vision again I went to several sites to get information. Most sites were very informative but the guys over on the VMC were flaming the bike to peices saying it shouldnt be call a Victory.
The site just seemed to fanboy'ish for me. I prefer this site over it but I dont own a Vision anymore so there is not much for me to post. The VOG is my preference because it is all over the place and when I posted my review of my Fury it was welcomed with open arms and when I say something negative about I bike I dont get completely flamed. Yes our bikes are great but they are not perfect.
To conclude, I am not here to pit one site against another. They all have their good and bad points. What you prefer I may not but I do not like anyone coming onto someone elses website and promoting an agenda. If membership is falling over at the VMC there is a reason why, spend time on there and fix it. I could tell you ways to do that but not on here, it would have to be over there.
Don |
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Fountain Inn, SC United States | Cap'n Nemo - 2011-03-24 11:50 AM
I see that I'm failing at my mission and I guess it might be best to pack my bags and go away. If you see me on the road, wave, I'll be the one on the Midnight Cherry Classic Vision with the big smile on my face.. If you all want to join my club, come on.
Chris - by all means, don't go away. Your insight is just as valuable as everyone else's here. I hope you (and everyone for that matter) are just as evangelical about Vision-Riders on the VMC and VOG forums.
That was why I asked that, aside from the club aspect, what is Vision-Riders lacking?
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Visionary
Posts: 1359
New Bohemia, Va | Okay, I will bite, I like that. Again, folks continue the issue that has plagued Victory owners and the associated club all along, bickering. I'm not here to bicker, or pit one site against another, it is not about sites, it is about brand owner coalition working together to make the brand even better, driven by the owners of the product and not the manufacturer, though having support since it is their customer base. Sorry for the run-on sentence, but it is a single thought. Sorry for not stating that up front. Why did I want to start here first on Vision-Riders (victory general)? Because I thought the audience is more mature and I didn't expect as many to be members and were not aware of the club. The entire intent is to get out of this rut that seems to plague the Victory Motorcycle Club. I would like to see a positive change in all the Victory riders to understand that there is strength in numbers and a lot more fun at it too if we recognize what direction we need to take. Nearly every rebuttal or post on a thread to make things better is met with opposition. Everyone keeps dragging the website forums into it, I'm just using it as a communication tool to say "Hey fellow Vicsters, lets get our act together, together." I've asked that this thread be frozen, and I expect it at anytime because it was not meant to generate this gyration over forums. This site is dedicated to the brand just as much as the theVMC forums are. However, this site is not a club, the VMC in and of itself is. It's not likely a new club will start up, the VMC has been at it since the beginning of Victory motorcyles, so why not take it to a new level. I'll be posting over there to get the negative off of here and get it over there, sadly.
Stick with the idea of promoting the brand. Harley has it figured out, thus their continued strong existance, despite numbers etc. Just this morning the local paper had a headline of Bikers Rally For a Good Cause. The first thing that popped in my mind was HOG, and I was right. It's not likely if I went I'd hear a lot of club politics and how the forum sucks. Everything will be in a positive light, and they'll probably have a few more HD owners in short order because they stick together.
Okay, I'll shut up and wait for the next one come back with "we tried that one before but it didn't work", because it's not likely someone will say "man, let's get this thing going, it's a great idea".
It's not too late to move the VMC in a positive direction and get it where it ought to be... man what am I saying...?
Edited by Cap'n Nemo 2011-03-24 12:01 PM
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Visionary
Posts: 1359
New Bohemia, Va | Jedi Jeff - 2011-03-24 11:47 AM
Cap'n Nemo - 2011-03-24 11:50 AM
I see that I'm failing at my mission and I guess it might be best to pack my bags and go away. If you see me on the road, wave, I'll be the one on the Midnight Cherry Classic Vision with the big smile on my face.. If you all want to join my club, come on.
Chris - by all means, don't go away. Your insight is just as valuable as everyone else's here. I hope you (and everyone for that matter) are just as evangelical about Vision-Riders on the VMC and VOG forums.
That was why I asked that, aside from the club aspect, what is Vision-Riders lacking?
Yes Jeff, I am, I live up to being a cheerleader of Vision and Vision-Riders, and I've even done business cards with www.vision-riders.com and theVMC.com on them. Like I said, you guys are doing everything right in an internet forum.
As a club, we can have one focus, one voice, the websites just get into the details. |
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Puddle Jumper
Posts: 19
| All I can say is start fixing your house in your house not in someone else's... I guess I am hung-up on internet protocol and dont know why you are trying to promote members on a competing site (there is a term for this). These easiest way to promote the brand is not by trying to recruit members but maybe (and this is far out there) just talk with the moderators of each site and get them to work together... |
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Visionary
Posts: 1359
New Bohemia, Va | So, as a fellow Victory owner I can count on you? If Jeff and Miles were trying to start up a club, a) this would have been deleted, b) they would have told me to stop, or c) I would join it and never brought this up. That's the first problem we have is as owners we don't all have the vision (no pun intended) to further the brand in a more cohesive and positive light. Sure, I know some don't care either, I use to not at all, but all we continue to do is work against ourselves. I see ZERO competition between VOG - VMC Forums - Vision-Riders, nil, none, zip. They all speak for themselves and they all meet a need. Some are on all three, some are on two, some are on one. So I think you are missing my intent entirely. As far as internet protocol, that's a laugh all to itself, not trying to be insulting or anything, but the internet is a free-for-all and there is no protocol unless you are using it illegially.
So, back to my point, as a fellow Victory rider, are we together on this, can I count on you? |
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Puddle Jumper
Posts: 19
| The internet is a free for all when you are paying the bill. These sites recieve very little money from banner ads and stuff like that most of the moderators are going into there own pocket because they are passionate about what they are doing. Whether you believe so or not they are in competition with each other to grab their share of a very small market. So I still do find it offensive and the proper term is trolling. When I wanted to post something about the VOG meetup on the VMC I followed proper protocol and pm'd Kevin and asked his permission first. Then when I posted the thread I started it out by saying that this is not a recruiting thread and it was approved by admin.
As far as help goes, if you are asking for my help with the VMC I would gladly help you over there and give my suggestions. If you wanted to start a true Victory club I would suggest setting something up on Meetups.com and promote it as a riding group for Victory owners. That way you truley are not a forum but a club.
From what I am reading you want the VMC to be the only riding club in the country for Victory?
I dont see us working against each other, I see you trying to push your agenda on me. Thats fine, I can push back and that is the exact reason I am not active on the other site. You probably do not know me but there are probably only a handful of people that spend more time promoting Victory and my dealer more then myself. I sit here in the background and r... oh never mind... |
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Visionary
Posts: 1359
New Bohemia, Va | okay, you've made your point Don. I'm fully aware of what the internet is all about from top to bottom and had successful websites that had its own niche, but I never competed, I let it speak for itself and it served its purpose for the time. Victory is not that big to start with, a very small slice of the pie of the motorcyle world.
I'll say one thing, Victory riders are really loyal to their bikes but not so much to others that ride Victorys, at large. Sure, there is the pocket, cells, cliques, whatever we want to call it, and it continues to sing the same old song. I hope that we'll get past that, but for now you say its a bad idea. I just caught onto the fact that Harley has HOG and Goldwing has GWRRA, and they are what they are, the largest group of faithful riders.
I was part of the GWRRA while I had my wing and I saw positive things, especially with the book every year with the member participation in it, like the RRDB. That's some good stuff, and I'm sure HOG has that too. That doesn't keep other "clubs" from standing up, but there will be one that will have the greatest number for the greatest cause, the rest will benefit from, even if it is residual. I'm not a member of ABATE or AMA, but applaude them because of the voice they have for all of us, each that speaks for us in different respects.
Currently the VMC is the largest representation of victory owners we have, I just want to encourage those to come together on a positive note, steer the club, for the members, by the members in a good direction. I have no agenda to push on you at all, you never had to respond, I know not everyone will join up. In all honesty I have no dog in this fight whatsoever, nothing to gain, nothing to lose, only the hope that those of us who love the brand will come together positively, have a strength that can speak in one voice to Polaris/Victory and continue to support them to build a great product. But okay, you win....
Edited by Cap'n Nemo 2011-03-24 1:21 PM
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Tourer
Posts: 520
Simi Valley, CA | Frankly I agree 100% with everything that Chris has said. As a paying member and visitor regularly of all three forums I feel that I can chime in here too. This forum is a great resource for Victory owners. The members are helpful, open and honest. I have always been treated fairly and gotten great feedback on any issues or questions.
The VMC I actually joined before buying my Vision, in hopes that , since they have 'local' chapters, they would be more of the Victory riding organization, similar to the SCRC, only Victory centric. While there are chapters that are that way- most I see are not. That's okay too. It wasn't what I thought. I assumed- yes I did, that it would be similar to the HOG organization. My mistake. In addition, the feedback and rants I see on the VMC, some get downright nasty. Just for an example, when Mr Wizard posted his new exhaust tips here, it has like 22,000 views and pages of comments. When he did the same thing on the VMC forum, the responses were, shall I say, less than positive. The VOG net is an information source, great videos- I don't go there as frequently.
My feeling is that each of the three resources are unique, a good thing. They don't compete otherwise they could not all survive. I wish that Mother V would take a look at the VMC, and support it by giving each bike purchased a year membership to the group. Then maybe, get their dealer network to support the VMC, some chapters have been able to do this- I feel this is a way that growth of the VMC, Vision-Riders and VOG and the BRAND can be guaranteed.
Tim |
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Visionary
Posts: 1359
New Bohemia, Va | there's always someone that can and will say it better than I can, thanks Tim! Live long and perspire... (on a california desert highway...) |
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Puddle Jumper
Posts: 19
| Cometman - 2011-03-24 2:43 PM
My feeling is that each of the three resources are unique, a good thing. They don't compete otherwise they could not all survive. I wish that Mother V would take a look at the VMC, and support it by giving each bike purchased a year membership to the group. Then maybe, get their dealer network to support the VMC, some chapters have been able to do this- I feel this is a way that growth of the VMC, Vision-Riders and VOG and the BRAND can be guaranteed.
Tim
That would be like political suicide for the factory. We have members here that dont go to the other sites because they dont want to read about anything but a Vision. The VOG has it's loyal die hard members that dont go to the other two and the VMC has its die hards. Why would the factory want to distance themselves from any of the groups? Just does not make good business sense in this economy. I am not going to post the numbers but it would probably shock people to find which Victory sites have the most traffic and "active" members.
Also, if Mama V gives its support to the VMC how does that help the growth of the VOG and Vision-Riders? If you want growth in the brand, hanging with people of the same brand doesnt help. When I pull up to a biker spot with my LE I get allot of attention from the HD crowd. It being #1 is a real talking point, I hand out my cards and tell them to visit the site and write my dealers address and number on the back and tell them to go in for a test ride. I went to Sanford Thunder in the Streets and Biketoberfest in Daytona and volunteered at my dealers tent answering questions. I think I was directly responsible for 2 bike sales. That's how you grow a brand, not by hanging out with people that are already riding the same bike. |
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Iron Butt
Posts: 965
New York State | Ok I'm crazy but to me if you want a friend try being friendly. I am part of a Fraternal Org I was born in to it. It claims to be about Brotherhood but I can site no examples.
I have siblings they have no choice about me they are family.
I have thousands of brothers across the world we have one thing in common we ride bikes I have never met them all or ever will.
The ones I met for the most part were being brotherly to me others I have met by being that to them.
Sure some have walked away and cursed me or I them.
I don't let that keep me from offering a cell phone or a ride to someone in a jam
This site is a true Niche It has carved out a place in Cyberspace that it maintains with quality.
I trust the information that I read here.
{ Gets off Soap box}
Edited by Trekwolf164 2011-03-24 5:36 PM
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Cruiser
Posts: 216
Danville, CA | My opinion is the site should be transferred, ported over to Facebook. Its where alot of people go and the interface and updates on your phone are nice and at your finger tips. You asked..  |
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Tourer
Posts: 432
Gettysburg, 2008 Tour Premium | I spend very little time with VMC but did pay the dues. In my second year now. About 6 months after I joined I posed a question why the picture of the Fallen serviceman still is front and center on the home page of dues paying club websight. I did not know who he was but I suggested that the same privilage was offered to anyone in the club. I will have to say that the response from a few as to the attack was supportive the overall feeling was similar to the same hardass BS I hear spouted on any number of H-D forums. My feeling is i expect equality of service if dues are charged. I used to own a Goldwing and I loved the community grown up around the Goldwing, same goes for the BMW riders. I think This forum excels in keeping on topic and I love the fact that there are no GURU's or elder statesmen that lead the frey. Keep up the good work. |
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The Brand
